Something I don’t get, why is it percentage based? I mean, I get it from the waiters perspective. But as a customer? Whether my one plate of food is 20$ or 200$, he did the same thing. Scaling with more items of time spent would seem more appropriate.
Tipping culture npcs
Submitted 9 months ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to [deleted]
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Comments
De_Narm@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
If you are are trying to find logic within tipping you might as well chase windmills. It’s dumb as bolts.
EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Chasing a windmill would be really easy tho.
greedytacothief@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Well usually more people means a higher bill, more people is more work. Lots of places even just add gratuity to the bill once a group size is large enough.
But tipping is dumb, and working in the service industry sucks… I have no easy solutions.
Sprawlie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have no easy solutions.
There’s an easy one that could be legislated tomorrow by any states.
Raise minimum wages and enforce it throughout ALL workplaces, including wait staff.
danc4498@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I think the $20 vs $200 was a per person price. Like, if I order the steak for $50 and you order a grilled cheese sandwich for $8, we both got the same amount and quality of service, why do we tip differently?
betheydocrime@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Serving a $200 meal requires a lot of knowledge and physical skill that the server down at Chili’s probably doesn’t have. The kind of restaurant that sells a $200 meal also has a larger support staff that must be given a percentage of the server’s tip
asteriskeverything@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You’re not wrong, that’s the logic behind it. It’s not like you’re defending it so idk why you’re getting down voted! What you also didn’t mention is that at these restaurants is that it is a much more leisurely meal and experience, so there isn’t high table turnover which lessens the tips. I suspect they also have smaller sections.
dream_weasel@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
You’re the only one who gets it.
Everything is probably a la carte. You gotta know what is in every dish, what pairs with it from appetizers to sides to wine to dessert. You don’t walk out and ask “who had the cheeseburger?” because the expectation on the experience is higher. You’re controlling the timing at the table as well. When do you fire the main after they get the appetizer? Salad? Bread? Drinks? Which SIDE of the person do you give or remove plates? And yeah you gotta tip the bartender, the bussers, the expediters sometimes, and who knows who else.
It is still horseshit, but it’s not as easy as dropping a rib basket on the table.
Be mad about the tip line on the sandwich shop menu, be mad about 20% tip on the burger joint that has a modern industrial interior and a $22 burger, don’t be mad about paying out the Friday Saturday night white tablecloth servers with a tough fucking job of conducting your whole anniversary meal. You get to have a good experience once a year, they’ve got 15 other once a year meals to solve and it’s just a regular dinner shift.
NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social 9 months ago
What difference is there between serving a $200 meal and a $50 one?
Wogi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Because it’s a con, and if it were a flat rate, people would see it for the con it is. By making it a percentage of sales, you can delude people in to believing they’re going to make more in tips than they would on an hourly rate.
Sometimes that’s true, for the vast majority of servers it isn’t.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
I see it as a sneaky incentive from management for waiters to upsell you on more sides, drinks and desserts.
Since the more marked up extras a waiter/waitress can fool people into getting, the better tip they can hope to earn at the end because of the %-based expectation.
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you’re getting the same level of service at a restaurant serving $200/plate meals as you are at TGI Fridays, either you’re being ripped off of your local Fridays has amazing servers.
pjwestin@lemmy.world 9 months ago
$20 is like, one entree, maybe a beverage at a cheap restaurant. $200 is probably closer to 3 entrees, 2 or 3 cocktails and an app at a moderately priced restaurant. You’re crazy if you think the amount of work for those two orders (putting them into the bar/kitchen, making sure they come out correct, running them, all while juggling your other tables) is equal. I also want tipping culture to end, but the price tag scales pretty well with the amount of work being done.
auraness@lemmy.world 9 months ago
That’s insane. It’s literally the job. Imagine applying this logic to any service industry job.
player2@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
It mostly bothers me when I just order 1 entree and a water. At one place that might cost $10, and at another place it might cost $30, and all the wait staff did was carry a plate from the kitchen to me in both cases.
It doesn’t seem fair that the wait staff at the more expensive place gets tipped more than the less expensive place just because of an arbitrary custom.
The extra cost of the expensive meal is mostly due to ingredients, the cooking process, the location, and maaay slightly more complicated table setting.
wer2@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Waffle House: feed a family of 4 for $20 Tip: $4 “Fancy” Restaurant: microwaved appetizer $20 Tip: $5
A percentage scales within an establishment, but not really across them.
GBU_28@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Each plate of food or drink is a transaction, each with expectations of quality, and expectations on the waiter to make it right.
hark@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Make what right? They’re just bringing it to my table. If the food or service sucks I’m also told that you should tip anyway, so it seems like tipping isn’t based on quality (and really, it isn’t).
quackers@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Keep this garbage out of europe please. i see it popping up. I will absolutely refuse to tip a single goddamn soul at this point going forward.
Obi@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
Scotland is a goner, last time I was there all the card terminals had it. Asked a waitress if she would get the tip if I have one and she flushed, mumbled something, looked at the boss and sheepishly said it gets shared. I bet none of the staff sees any of it.
cman6@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Which is illegal! If you tip a waiter/waitress then the money must go to them: gov.uk/…/all-tips-to-go-to-staff-under-government…
I mean I’m not sure what you can do other than name and shame the restaurant, and/or boycott it
Fisch@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Tipping is pretty normal here in Germany but not required, no one depends on it. Probably because our minimum wage is actually high enough. Germany’s minimum wage of 12.50€/h is almost double that of the US, which is $7.25/h or 6.76€/h if you convert it.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Only way you can ensure a living wage us to not take part in it
lanolinoil@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s worse than you think – In most US States, you can pay people way under the minimum wage as long as their tips make up for it. So an average waiter might make 2 bucks and hour on paper. If they didn’t get enough tips to reach minimum wage, the restaurant would have to pay them out on top of that, but it’s just this fucked up cultural thing to give restaurant owners free labor that the customers pay for.
PeroBasta@lemmy.world 9 months ago
In Austria often times they expect it because of “good behaviour”. Its not a fix percentage but more pocket chance. Still they are getting a full salary at the end of the month
HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
That was a big change for me coming there from the Netherlands. Tipping is a bigger thing here, but salaries are also better and waiters seem to get some level of respect as well.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The whole damn system exists to place the burden of a living wage on the customer while the company paying peanuts can claim no wrongdoing. And the really sad part is: it has worked.
Shenanigore@lemm.ee 9 months ago
It’s on the customer either way
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes, but one way is on the company first and one isn’t. Would prices go up if these places were paying living wages? Most likely. Many businesses would be insolvent because their business model was simply never designed to pay a living wage to employees. Others could remain solvent, but probably not if they continue to take so much off the top at higher positions.
And that’s exactly it: the market never self-corrects if we throw arbitrary money in excess of listed prices to solve was is ultimately an issue of business solvency and ethics. There is no economic theory that would support such an idea in any industry, but here we are.
The sheer number of businesses out of the space might even drive down rents. That’s the kind of thing I mean by “other actions”. But things cannot continue as they are.
MisterFrog@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The difference is that on slow nights, staff get paid less, which is fucked up.
The business needs to wear the cost, because they reap the rewards, which is the narrative capitalism supposedly is about.
Tipping sucks, I’m glad we don’t have it in Australia.
hglman@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Tipping is good bc you van pay the employee directly. What needs to change is that tips need to be mandatory and when tips fall short of a living wage the business must pay pay to make up.
circuitfarmer@lemmy.world 9 months ago
What advantage does this hold versus the company paying a living wage in the first place?
Cannonhead2@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I agree wholeheartedly! Let’s make tipping mandatory. In fact, let’s add it on to the price of your bill automatically. Better still, let’s just add it onto the menu price. Oh hey, we’ve come full circle.
LucasWaffyWaf@lemmy.world 9 months ago
What difference is there to you, then, between “employer pays a reasonable living wage to their employees but raises the prices of the food a bit to accommodate” and “employer pays poverty wages, forcing the customers to pay their employees for them and forcing tax payers to pay up when people earning poverty wages inevitably rely on government programs to simply survive?” If tipping is mandatory, the only people that benefit is the employer since they can simply double dip - spend less money on payroll AND force the customer to make up for your lack of willingness to pay competitive wages. Yes, under current law, employers are supposed to make the difference if tips can’t cover at least minimum wage, but that’s not enforced nearly as much as it should be, which puts the onus on the workers being exploited in the first place, and even then minimum wage in this country is embarrassingly unfit for supporting anybody.
The more important question to ask is “why am I expected to pay an employee when the money I already give to a business should cover wages in the first place?”
I’m a tipped employee for my day job. I make a decent base pay, but the tips make up for that in spades during busy seasons. I’ve bought my current car with tip money. Despite this, I fully support getting rid of tips if it meant my livelihood wouldn’t be a gamble depending on factors outside my control, and especially if it meant fewer people had to rely on government assistance and could better provide a livelihood for themselves.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
Or…and hear me out…RESTAURANTS SHOULDN’T BE ALLOWED TO PAY THEIR STAFF LESS THAN $3/HR!
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 9 months ago
A business is free to offer mandatory tipping and they do have to make up the difference if its not the minimum wage. The minimum wage could be higher of course.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
“On the verge” of a recession? What the fuck planet are you living on?
superduperenigma@lemmy.world 9 months ago
“No need to worry, citizen! We have once again successfully avoided a recession by changing how a recession is defined!”
DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe 9 months ago
How can it be a recession when the .01% is richer than ever before?
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
Pretty much.
someacnt_@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Well, are we in a recession? Because it does not seem like it for many people, not just 1%.
kautau@lemmy.world 9 months ago
What do you mean? Corporate profits are higher than they’ve ever been!
/s in case that wasn’t obvious
Pilon23@feddit.dk 9 months ago
Planet earth’s been on the verge of a recession since 4bya. Various economists have been able to predict a recession every year since the term was invented. Stay safe
superduperenigma@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Michael Burry has successfully predicted 92 of the last 3 recessions.
FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org 9 months ago
I like how i said the same thing but got downvoted lol. What is the matter with this place?
PatMustard@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Recession has a specific definition. Unless you’ve had however many quarters of negative growth or bad GDP or however the fuck economists define it then you’re not in recession.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
They’ve changed the definition of recession like 5 times in the past 3 years. We’ve had numerous consecutive quarters with negative GDP growth.
Rooter@lemmy.world 9 months ago
“Other struggling people are not the enemy”.
Op is jeff bezos alt account.
atyaz@reddthat.com 9 months ago
Or even to use this same example, why not blame the restaurant owner? They can choose to pay their waiters well and tell customers there’s no need for tipping.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
This is the point that 50% of North Americans don’t understand. The restaurant owners have set the culture, and they exploit young people and customers alike. However, 50% of people think they’re entitled to eat out and therefore entitled to not tip, which only rewards the scummy restaurant owner for having exploitative business practices. Choosing to eat out and not tip makes tipping culture WORSE.
Cringe2793@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Well because the struggling people are blaming you when you don’t tip. They should blame the restaurant owner. But they blame the diner instead.
That’s why people take servers/waiters as the “enemy”
hyperhopper@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Disagree. Most servers and bartenders are in favor of tipping culture and want it to stay this way with zero wages and societally enforced tips.
Yes, the corporations are the enemy, but these other struggling people are on the side of the actual enemy.
JCreazy@midwest.social 9 months ago
I just stopped going to places or using services that expect me to tip. I hate the idea of tipping.
Sami_Uso@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Cook at home, we don’t want you there, anyways.
rsuri@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I look at it as Actual price = menu price + lowest suggested tip + $5 tip awkwardness penalty. So a place near me has a $12 lunch-size sub sandwich that’s really good. But they ask for a 15% tip. So rather than just never eat at my favorite sandwich spot, I regard it as a $18.80 lunch and only buy it on rare occasions or when my company is paying.
Rediphile@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Going anyway and just not tipping is also a completely acceptable and legally protected option. Sort of like saying ‘no thank you’ to the grocery store check out person asking for charity donations or if you would like to sign up for the store credit card.
Again, it’s optional. So people can also say ‘yes’ if they want and that’s cool too I guess. Although tipping is inherently harmful to the server’s baseline wage which is a bit problematic, if people want to tip they can and no one is stopping them. And I won’t give them shit about it unless they specifically inquire about it. Since the whole thing is ‘optional’ after all I let them make their own decisions and if tipping gives them a nice release of serotonin or dopamine or something that makes them feel better, who am I to take that from them.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
This is a valid choice. What isn’t valid is still going out to restaurants, having a gay ol time, and then refusing to tip your server on principle while the owner did nothing and made a killing.
someguy3@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
I remember when I realized tipping is insane (like 15 years ago). One of my friends was talking the waitress up and she was complaining about another table and the tip she expected. Some quick math worked out to she expected 40%.
JackbyDev@programming.dev 8 months ago
I’ve literally never seen a waiter get angry about not leaving a 25% tip. Can we please avoid manufactured outrage?
zeppo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I don’t really get why the expected percentage went up. 15% was the standard for a LONG time. 20% meant you thought they were great. Now 15 is considered shitty, like an insult, and we’re supposed to do 18 or 25 or 30. Meanwhile prices also went up. Why am I supposed to tip 25% now? Service hasn’t changed.
BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Every time we go to Toronto we go to the same restaurant because they don’t accept tips, they just pay their staff really well. Fantastic restaurant and I love supporting them.
Gork@lemm.ee 9 months ago
It does annoy me slightly when POS systems have placeholder tip amounts but they’re like 18%, 20%, and 25%. Sorry, but I just do the standard 15% in most cases so now I gotta calculate it out in my head.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
Ahh yes, verge of a recession, but there’s enough money to patronize a sit down restaurant where it’s well known that the owner pays their staff starvation wages. Fuck your server!
fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Actually pay restaurant workers a decent wage goddammit!
Cold_Brew_Enema@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Restaurants when they expect a 40% tip after you drive to the store for pickup
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you can’t afford the bill then don’t eat there. That sucks to hear I know. However the only way we’re going to reign in costs is by sticking to what’s affordable. If restaurants can’t charge that price then food distributors have to lower prices too. We all benefit by sticking to affordability.
If you’re worried about money you absolutely should open up the restaurant’s menu on their website or before you order and figure out what you can afford with a 20% surcharge. That said tipping was created by the industry to externalize costs and it needs to go die in a fire.
frozen@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz 9 months ago
Listen, I hate the tipping culture here just as much as everybody else, but the fact is, if you can’t afford to tip, you can’t afford to go out. Should employees get a decent wage without it, absolutely yes. But they don’t right now, and you not tipping isn’t going to change that.
someguy3@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
One thing: We’re not on the verge of a recession. The right wing media needs to make things up to attack and that was one of them. I couldn’t believe all that talk, nothing happened, nothing was about to happen, but they fear mongered for months.
reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 8 months ago
we’re on the verge of a recession I gotta cut back
someone should make and serve my meals for me
TedJ70@aussie.zone 9 months ago
Why not pay hospitality workers a halfway decent wage, and leave tipping for exemplary service? That’s how it works in the rest of the developed world.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 9 months ago
How about increasing wages to promote more consumer spending? Henry Ford-- a literal Nazi-- of all people, knew this!
LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 8 months ago
Look at Mr. Fatcat over here eating out while we’re on the verge of a recession.
Scolding7300@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Don’t hate the player, the owner is the one to blame
FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world 9 months ago
25%?
Nope: Get fucked lol
Nurgle@lemmy.world 8 months ago
On the verge of a recession is gonna be new go to excuse.
“Sorry babe, can’t do a bday gift this year. Nothing has changed for me, but there may or may not be a recession lurking in the shadows”
ggBarabajagal@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Tipping is more than just a custom; there really is a culture to it. If you’re tipping only because you know the server makes less than minimum wage from the restaurant (or that greedy restaurant owners are completely to blame for this injustice), I think you may be misunderstanding an aspect of this culture.
Working in a restaurant is as hard a retail job as there is, and working as a server is often the hardest job in the restaurant. Being a truly good server requires a rare mix of people skills, math skills, memory, and a thick skin. So why do people choose to take the hardest job there is in the whole restaurant, when it pays less than all the other jobs?
Most servers end up getting paid better than the people doing other jobs in the restaurant. In most restaurants, servers make more than minimum wage. At the end of their shifts, most servers in turn tip-out the front-of-the-house employees, such as hosts and bussers, who often do only make minimum wage.
A truly excellent server may be the highest-paid employee for an entire shift – that certainly includes the manager and anyone else on salary, and it may even include the owner, when you add in labor and upkeep costs.
In order to make all that money, however, this server has to work at all the times that everyone else is out having fun – Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning. This server must put up with drunks, picky eaters and other narcissists, as well as seating errors and kitchen mistakes, all with a smile, for six or eight or ten hours straight. This server, who earns more than anyone else on the shift, is working harder than anyone else on the shift.
This is the other aspect that I wanted to address. Tipping culture is what gives that excellent server the opportunity to earn a better wage, more appropriate to the effort and expertise they devote to the job.
I’m sure this all sounds very capitalist, because it is. This may not be the most capitalism-friendly forum, I know, but I’m not trying to make any larger argument here.
I’m just saying that to me, it seems like this should be a “don’t hate the players” (owners, managers, servers, rich/drunk people who like to leave big tips) “hate the game” (tipping culture). And even if you do hate tipping culture, it couldn’t hurt to consider how it works for the people who don’t hate it.
Smoogs@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Getting real sick of the customer holding the weight of being the financial planner for a business and the management getting by with no blame for wage stealing and shitty business practices in this circumstance.
UsernameIsTooLon@lemmy.world 8 months ago
$70 is a few days worth of food if you do groceries. Plus $0 tips
Nurgle@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Lmfao 🤣 Same face my chauffeur makes when he doesn’t get his Christmas bonus cause we’re on the verge of a recession
Ignisnex@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Last night, my wife and I ordered Chinese for Valentine’s Day. Cost $100. Tried to tip the delivery guy a $20, and he turned it down lol. He then gave my cat a temptations treat, out of a freshly opened bag he had in his pocket. Dude was amazing!
generaldenmark@programming.dev 9 months ago
Americans be like; “If you can’t afford to pay 69% tip then don’t go out eating at all”
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you’re going to say “69%” , you need to call it eating out, not out eating.
joelfromaus@aussie.zone 9 months ago
It’s only eating out if it’s 69%, otherwise it’s just sparkling oral.
Steve@startrek.website 9 months ago
While getting fucked! What a meal!
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Also, complaining that things will cost too much if waiters eek by on more than minimum wage.
dabaldeagul@feddit.nl 9 months ago
The cost is literally the same… Restaurants would just be upfront about it then.
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Eek! They eke out a living on so little!
SeabassDan@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I gotta say, complaining about being on the verge of a recession while going out for a $70 meal really puts my poverty into perspective.
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If all I had to do was 69 my waiter, I’d be eating out a lot more