Getting real sick of the customer holding the weight of being the financial planner for a business and the management getting by with no blame for wage stealing and shitty business practices in this circumstance.
Tipping culture npcs
Submitted 2 months ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/84db886f-d8c4-447e-ae24-56c9f042bb3c.jpeg
Comments
Smoogs@lemmy.world 2 months ago
speaker_hat@lemmy.one 2 months ago
25% is INSANE, even not during recession.
It’s literally 1/4 of the meal.
INSANE.
Pyr_Pressure@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
I always found percentage to be a bit stupid as a measure. If I’m eating by myself max I will tip is 10%. All they did was walk out a plate of food and refill the water a handful of times
2 people then 15%
If there’s like 8 people then maybe 15% + 1% per person.
For decent service you would expect from competent staff that is, if it’s excellent than a bit more and terrible a bit less.
newjunkcity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Genuine question: how does that work though?
- If I consume $30 worth, and tip 10%, waiter gets $3.
- If there’s two of us, and we consume $60, the waiter probably does 60% extra work for 100% extra tip at 10% of the total bill ($6)
I would have thought (but perhaps I’m wrong) that the waiter does less work per person as the number of people at a table increases, so why would the percentage tip go up?
And as far as the bill goes, if there’s only me, I’ll likely stick to soft drinks. Whereas when there are more people in my group, I’d be much more likely to grab a bottle of wine to share, pushing the total bill per person up, and thus the tip.
mellowheat@suppo.fi 2 months ago
If I should tip 25% for a $70 meal, the meal shouldn’t be $70. It should be $88.
zik@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I honestly don’t know why people go to restaurants in the US. I don’t want a guilt trip with my expensive meal. Talk about a buzz kill.
dutchkimble@lemy.lol 2 months ago
Rude - Atleast they could have played them a nice piece on the world’s tiniest violin!
UsernameIsTooLon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
$70 is a few days worth of food if you do groceries. Plus $0 tips
Shard@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Are you sure? I’m hearing news about suggested tip values on almost all point of sales machines. Maybe even grocery stores.
Agent641@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The day the supermarket asks me for a tip is the day I start shoplifting even more than I already do
s_s@lemm.ee 2 months ago
If you live in a tipping culture and can’t afford to tip, then you can’t afford a waitress.
Pika@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
this is the reverse of “if you can’t afford a job that pays you find another job”. I’m all for tipping for service rendered and I’m the first to suggest tipping at tables, but some of the “recommended tip rates” requested at establishments are extortionary. I’m 100% ok with tipping 15-20%, even moreso if it’s a super small order or the waiter went above and beyond but, my 45 minute meal that you visited twice maybe 3 times tops for does not warrent a 25+% tip rate.
jkrtn@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Don’t you agree with them if your argument is basically that 15% is expected but 25% is extortionate?
s_s@lemm.ee 2 months ago
this is the reverse of “if you can’t afford a job that pays you find another job”.
Not even close.
LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 2 months ago
Look at Mr. Fatcat over here eating out while we’re on the verge of a recession.
frank@lemmy.world 2 months ago
We’ve been on the verge of a recession for years. It’s just called “life” now.
Nurgle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
On the verge of a recession is gonna be new go to excuse.
“Sorry babe, can’t do a bday gift this year. Nothing has changed for me, but there may or may not be a recession lurking in the shadows”
Nurgle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Lmfao 🤣 Same face my chauffeur makes when he doesn’t get his Christmas bonus cause we’re on the verge of a recession
gearheart@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I will probably get hate but I also tip based on the before tax portion.
scoobford@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
20% of $25 is $5.
20% of 109% of $25 is $5.45.
I doubt anyone notices.
hogmomma@lemmy.world 2 months ago
What do you mean by “also?” Do you tip twice?
MacDangus@lemmy.world 2 months ago
This is what you are supposed to do
Desistance@lemmy.world 2 months ago
This is why I never eat out anymore. Restaurants are complaining that their customer base is shrinking. I wonder why…
reverendsteveii@lemm.ee 2 months ago
we’re on the verge of a recession I gotta cut back
someone should make and serve my meals for me
spujb@lemmy.cafe 2 months ago
the correct analysis of how full of shit OP is, good job
ggBarabajagal@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Tipping is more than just a custom; there really is a culture to it. If you’re tipping only because you know the server makes less than minimum wage from the restaurant (or that greedy restaurant owners are completely to blame for this injustice), I think you may be misunderstanding an aspect of this culture.
Working in a restaurant is as hard a retail job as there is, and working as a server is often the hardest job in the restaurant. Being a truly good server requires a rare mix of people skills, math skills, memory, and a thick skin. So why do people choose to take the hardest job there is in the whole restaurant, when it pays less than all the other jobs?
Most servers end up getting paid better than the people doing other jobs in the restaurant. In most restaurants, servers make more than minimum wage. At the end of their shifts, most servers in turn tip-out the front-of-the-house employees, such as hosts and bussers, who often do only make minimum wage.
A truly excellent server may be the highest-paid employee for an entire shift – that certainly includes the manager and anyone else on salary, and it may even include the owner, when you add in labor and upkeep costs.
In order to make all that money, however, this server has to work at all the times that everyone else is out having fun – Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning. This server must put up with drunks, picky eaters and other narcissists, as well as seating errors and kitchen mistakes, all with a smile, for six or eight or ten hours straight. This server, who earns more than anyone else on the shift, is working harder than anyone else on the shift.
This is the other aspect that I wanted to address. Tipping culture is what gives that excellent server the opportunity to earn a better wage, more appropriate to the effort and expertise they devote to the job.
I’m sure this all sounds very capitalist, because it is. This may not be the most capitalism-friendly forum, I know, but I’m not trying to make any larger argument here.
I’m just saying that to me, it seems like this should be a “don’t hate the players” (owners, managers, servers, rich/drunk people who like to leave big tips) “hate the game” (tipping culture). And even if you do hate tipping culture, it couldn’t hurt to consider how it works for the people who don’t hate it.
Smoogs@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I worked in this culture. It’s very toxic. Stop trying to romanticize it. The moving ‘waiting’ was super on point on how it actually is.
ferralcat@monyet.cc 2 months ago
I worked at a restaurant as a kid washing dishes and servers did fuck all, made bank, and complained about how it wasn’t enough. I lost all respect for waiters at that job (but I saw the same behaviors repeated too later in life. In the bay you’d notice that as soon as you didn’t order an overpriced cocktail with dinner, your waiter would peg you as a low spender and basically just never come back unless you flagged them down).
Cooks… Good cooks are nuts to me. They’ll be cooking 10 different things simultaneously with timers running in their heads. I had no idea how they managed it.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 months ago
In order to make all that money, however, this server has to work at all the times that everyone else is out having fun – Friday night, Saturday night, Sunday morning.
Only tip at weekends. Gotcha.
veni_vedi_veni@lemmy.world 2 months ago
First, good servers are far and few between and yet the expectation is always there (even in Canada for some bizarre reason). And people’s definition of good is also different. I don’t care about service with a smile, or being periodically asked if the food is good. That’s actually annoying to me. Just get my order right and get my bill within a reasonable time. Even if you are juggling 3-5 different tables, you have a notepad for a reason. That’s not worth much to me, especially since those are requirements of many other min wage jobs (ffs EMT personnel salaries are not paid much more than min wage, you see them asking for tips?).
Second, tipping culture goes easy beyond dining in. They ask for it whenever you pay, even takeout. That’s just rude imo.
And it may seem that this is punching down, but it is not because conceptually tipping is a mechanism to justify suppressing wages/value of labor by businesses. Instead, “hating The game” should be about raising min wage as a whole so businesses pay more, and if that means goods cost more, at least the consumers are more informed that way.
ggBarabajagal@lemmy.world 2 months ago
“People’s definition of good is also different.” That’s exactly what makes working as a server a difficult job.
Take you, for example. It sounds like you don’t like to be bothered when you’re dining out. An excellent server might be likely to recognize that and leave you alone after the first or second visit – as well as get your order right and bring your bill promptly. Even if not, there’s nothing wrong with politely asking to be left alone, but you can’t expect your server to read your mind. Some people do like to be bothered. Some people value the experience of being served while dining out to be as important as the food or the ambience. People have different definitions of good.
In your “first” part, I hear you talking about resentment toward feeling obliged to tip servers when they give poor service. I understand and agree, to an extent. Paying servers minimum wage (or more) would not necessarily improve the service, however, and could possibly allow it to become worse. The amount you leave as a tip – if anything at all – is still completely up to you. That’s a big part of tipping culture as well.
As for your “second,” and your “third,” I’m talking about tipping culture at sit-down restaurants in the United States.
Because you are able to conceptualize tipping as a “a mechanism to justify suppressing wages” does not mean that’s the only way to conceptualize it. Do you really believe that raising server pay to minimum wage (or more) would end tipping culture in the U.S.? I do not believe that at all. Because there really is a culture to it, even it is merely a custom to folks like you.
We can stop its spread – we can refuse to tip at places that never expected a tip before. But tipping at fancy sit-down restaurants is ingrained in American culture. It would take generations of social engineering to breed it out. There are people who like to be able to tip for good service, wealthy American people who will seek it out. Even if it became the norm not to tip at restaurants, I bet tipping would been seen as a status symbol at the fancier ones.
And what about the “excellent server” I talked about earlier, who makes more money in tips than anyone else on the shift? To you, maybe that person is akin to some sort of prostitute, to be asking for extra money in exchange for personal consideration, when already making almost as much as “ffs EMT personnel”? Seriously though, no matter how much you raise that server’s wage, they’re still not going to be making anywhere near as much as they did working those big-money shifts for big tips. All else being even, they’re not going to choose to work those crappy hours anymore either, so the restaurant no longer has its best staff working its most demanding shifts.
Anyway, it didn’t really seem like you were punching down. It did sort of seem like you failed to address some of the points I tried to make about tipping culture in the US, and instead provided information about your personal preferences and bad experiences dining out at full-service restaurants. That, and pushing the single-problem-single-solution minimum-wage idea, again without really addressing any of the possible collateral consequences I tried to suggest in the original post.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
We had “server wages” in Canada up until very recently, hence why tipping culture exists here too.
JackbyDev@programming.dev 2 months ago
I’ve literally never seen a waiter get angry about not leaving a 25% tip. Can we please avoid manufactured outrage?
gardylou@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Unfortunately, we can’t avoid manufactured outrage.
scoobford@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
We definitely get a little peeved if it’s under 15, but frankly those people aren’t worth getting mad at. Someone else always comes by and makes up for it anyways
Plus, it’s unprofessional, awkward, and generally pointless to actually say something about it.
Randomgal@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
You think someone on here would lie or exaggerate for clicks?
jmankman@lemmy.myserv.one 2 months ago
What is a meme anyway
KevonLooney@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Something that would sound dumb written out as a comment?
pipows@lemmy.today 2 months ago
Here in Brazil, tipping is not normal. Instead, restaurants and bars will add a 10% service cost to the bill. This 10% is then weekly divided between cooks, waiters, bartenders, etc, the proportion being decided by the restaurant.
That is of course not a low, but it is so common that restaurant workers already consider that when thinking how much they make. My sister worked as a bartender at a restaurant recently, and she would add R$300 (roughly $60, yes it’s not much, but remember we’re a middle income country) to her monthly paycheck from this.
nale@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Wait, you pay higher prices since you dine and wine in restaurant (service included) and then you’re charged with service fee. Isn’t the higher price you pay already the service fee?
VaultBoyNewVegas@lemmy.world 2 months ago
As far as I’m aware the UK has a service charge too. And they’re the 6th largest economy in the world.
Cexcells@lemmy.world 2 months ago
If I’m not longer working for a tip, and my wage is built in. Guess who no longer cares about you dining experience.
Aggravationstation@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Here in the UK we don’t tip, people generally get fired if they don’t do their job well.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
This was downvoted by a lot of people who don’t understand the difference between fast food and a service restaurant or the reason service is so shitty at the former.
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Guess who’s also going to be out of a job
SuddenlyMelissa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
Millions of people do good work on a flat wage. If you need to be bribed to care at all about people, get out of the service industry.
Jennykichu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Imagine this guy at a strip club
“You expect a bribe simply to view your buttocks madam? You are in the wrong line of work if you expect charitable handouts from me! No, I don’t use Reddit it’s called Lemmy actually why do you ask?”
mudstickmcgee@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
“My boss pays me fairly so I’m going to suck ekstra at my job” what a great take
Jennykichu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
It’s kind of true. If you’ve ever been to Europe, the food is excellent but the service is nothing like in the states. Tipping can be confusing and frustrating but the problem is not the tips themselves it’s the CEOs who don’t pay their employees enough to dine out more than once a year.
bufalo1973@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
In some countries in Europe (Spain, Portugal, …) tips are just a bonus, not their wage. It’s a thank you but with money. So if you tip them you reinforce their good behavior.
If the tip is mandatory it stops being a thank you and becomes charity.
archomrade@midwest.social 2 months ago
Idk what experiences you’ve had but i’ve had nothing but downright pleasant service in Europe.
In my experience, if an american says they’re consistently getting bad service in europe it’s because they’re being inconsiderate or rude
Boop2133@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Good thing you don’t know you’re not getting the tip until after I got my meal and service
Cexcells@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The hypothetical here is that tipping isn’t a thing.
Ignisnex@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Last night, my wife and I ordered Chinese for Valentine’s Day. Cost $100. Tried to tip the delivery guy a $20, and he turned it down lol. He then gave my cat a temptations treat, out of a freshly opened bag he had in his pocket. Dude was amazing!
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Ahh yes, verge of a recession, but there’s enough money to patronize a sit down restaurant where it’s well known that the owner pays their staff starvation wages. Fuck your server!
panda_paddle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The meal is plenty affordable until the wait staff demands the outrageous amount if 25%.
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yeah, if you’re not tipping, you’re not fucking over the owner. You’re not railing against the tipping system. You’re just fucking over your server. Which makes you a dick.
Contend6248@feddit.de 2 months ago
If tipping is mandatory, it isn’t tipping anymore.
Enjoy what you get and get lost.
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 months ago
If everyone stopped tipping, the wait staff would demand more money, or leave. The owner would have to pay more to employees.
So yeah, not tipping is fucking over the waiter, unless everyone stopped tipping. Then that would fuck over the owner.
TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Yeah… If you can’t afford the tip, then you can’t afford the meal. If you’re morally opposed to tipping culture, then don’t give money to the restaurants who rely on tipping.
Not tipping at a restaurant isn’t some revolutionary act, it’s just being a dick to workers. Waiters aren’t some sort of class betrayer, they’re just another worker being screwed over by management.
I don’t like tipping culture either, but at the end of the week that waiter is still going to have to pay rent.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Weeg, I honestly don’t have a list with wage tables for each restaurant that I visit.
Don’t restaurants have to obey minimum wages? If they do, the waiters earn just like everyone else. If they don’t, then why the f don’t they?
phorq@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
In most places wait staff only need to be paid the minimum wage if their next-to-nothing wage plus tips doesn’t exceed minimum wage.
CaptnNMorgan@reddthat.com 2 months ago
Where is minimum wage livable?
lanolinoil@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The waiter isn’t patronizing the establishment in either sense of the word…
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
In no interpretation of the English language did my sentence imply that the waiter was the one eating at the restaurant.
BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Every time we go to Toronto we go to the same restaurant because they don’t accept tips, they just pay their staff really well. Fantastic restaurant and I love supporting them.
GiddyGap@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Welcome to nearly every restaurant in Europe.
EnderMB@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Are you from Europe? This absolutely isn’t the UK, nor is it many of the countries I’ve visited here…
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
That’s how it should be. Tips supplement incomes so restaurant owners can pocket the profits that would have gone to paying their staff better. If all restaurants moved to this model, everyone would be a lot happier.
Jennykichu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Tips supplement incomes so restaurant owners can pocket the profits that would have gone to paying their staff better.
I hate to defend small restaurant owners because so many of them are complete assholes but they are not exactly Scrooge McDucks dealing with Elon Musk levels of money. Elon Musk could cover the tips of everyone in America.
BonesOfTheMoon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And it’s such a great restaurant and makes you feel like you’re helping hospitality be a great industry.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 2 months ago
How about increasing wages to promote more consumer spending? Henry Ford-- a literal Nazi-- of all people, knew this!
Kcap@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Went to my normally favorite bar today and they updated their tipping button recommendations to “20%”, “69%”, and “100%”. The 69% was the default option which while I know they’re memeing, seemed really uncool as I nearly clicked approve without noticing.
Rooter@lemmy.world 2 months ago
“Other struggling people are not the enemy”.
Op is jeff bezos alt account.
fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Actually pay restaurant workers a decent wage goddammit!
LightDelaBlue@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yhea f off with that tiping culture .
hex_m_hell@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
If you can’t afford the tip, why are you paying $70 for a meal?
ExLisper@linux.community 2 months ago
I used to tip most of the times when I got to Spain but I was told so many time it’s simply not something people do here that I mostly stopped. There no way tip when you’re paying with a card and I carry less and less cash so without any pressure to tip I simply lost the habit.
Scolding7300@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Don’t hate the player, the owner is the one to blame
danekrae@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The worst are when NPCs call people NPCs.
partner0709@lemmy.world 2 months ago
#Bidenomics