This seems like a good place to post this reminder that in the last 50 years income has lost to inflation by 137 points. That’s decades of prices rising faster than wages. It’s not rocket science. They walked away with all of the productivity gains, and gave the entire country a pay cut at the same time. You want a boring dystopia? How about stealing your paycheck a couple percentage points a year until suddenly we realize we can’t afford to live without 3 full time incomes in one household.
Poignant post on the state of things
Submitted 9 months ago by STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/8c103ae7-3c64-4ca7-a120-e4b2bf8dc94a.jpeg
Comments
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Where I’m from, the median house price has risen 600% relative to the median income in the past 50 years.
That means the deposit we pay today is the equivalent of the entire 30 year mortgage of the people calling you lazy.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yup, the 137 points is just “core” inflation. Education, Housing, Food, and Cars all come in over that. Which is fine because those aren’t necessary in the US right?
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
And yet nearly anyone IRL you point this out to spouts some form of free market propaganda bullshit.
merc@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
When houses cost twice a person’s salary there were no 30 year mortgages.
TengoDosVacas@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Without violent pushback there is no reason at all to improve things. Cant afford to live?.. fuck you, we’ll find someone who can. Piss off, peasant.
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
All we would need is 3 days of a general strike with at least 10% participation.
But unfortunately there are several factors that prevent this, some human nature, some deliberately manufactured.
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Almost no one I know can afford missing a week’s worth of work: This is manufactured with stagflation and at-will work laws
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The rich inflaming radical partisanship with traditional and social media to distract from who the real enemy is, reducing social cooperation
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American culture has become largely an ‘observer culture’, where the world is treated as a thing to passively watch while feeling disconnected, this is probably the worst contributor.
So many of the labor movement gains our forefathers bled and died for have been trampled by an owner class hell bent on recapitulating european nobility on American soil and they have been WILDLY successful the last 30 years.
Either we organize a general strike, or there will be food riots within a decade.
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Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
We could do a general strike.
bartolomeo@suppo.fi 9 months ago
137 points
What’s a point?
Brainsploosh@lemmy.world 9 months ago
One percent relative what the market was at the starting point.
The market today is 237 % of starting point (probably 1990).
KevonLooney@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Inflation isn’t prices growing faster than wages, it’s just prices growing in general. Don’t let anyone tell you that gentle inflation is bad for poor people.
Debtors gain from inflation because they pay their fixed debts with currency worth less. When interest rates are low, refinance or borrow at low fixed rates. When inflation rises, your fixed debt costs go down in real terms.
If you want wages to increase, support a higher minimum wage.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This isn’t just inflation over 50 years. This is divergence in the inflation of wages and core inflation. So prices over all have risen by 137 points more than wages have risen. This isn’t the talk about inflation vs deflation vs death spirals. This is everything slowly becoming less affordable over time. And it really doesn’t matter if the money is worth less when the interest rate on the loan is far beyond inflation in the first place. You either pay it back quickly (monthly on a card) or watch it spiral out of control rapidly because adjustable rate loans work off of inflation and your wages didn’t go up to match. So now you have that much less money a month to buy food.
Theoretically inflation is good for borrowers. In practice you need a certain base of money for that to be true. If you can’t cover increased costs over the life of the loan then inflation is going to take you behind the shed.
obinice@lemmy.world 9 months ago
gave the entire country a pay cut
Entire country? Which country? We’re talking about our whole western civilisation.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The data I’m using is for the US.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 9 months ago
After WW2 almost every other developed nation was in ruin. The US was “the only game in town” when it came to production. This caused US labor to be in high demand and priced at a premium compared to places like in Europe or Japan, who were more concerned about rebuilding than exporting goods.
THIS is how a high school dropout could afford a house and a family. Because that high school dropout was basically your only option for labor. As those other countries finished rebuilding a lot manufacturing jobs left and things started to get “back to normal”.
The US was in a unique position but like most things it was just squandered. Now the US is “regressing towards the mean”. This is going to be the new normal because the last 40-50 years was an exception.
Damage@feddit.it 9 months ago
Europe was reduced to rubble, but my grandfathers, who were a kids during the war and after, both still managed to build a house, raise two kids each and set money aside; one of my grandmothers worked as a seamstress and those grandparents not only built houses for themselves and each kid, but essentially owned a whole block in our village.
I had to take a job that requires great effort, stress and skill and keeps me away from home 40% of the time, it pays well but still I couldn’t dream to be able to do the same as they did.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
That’s true to a point. However bigger effects were the rise in executive compensation, the loss of labor and corporate regulations, and the resurgence of the shipping industry such that it was cheaper to ship from China than to make it in the US. It’s true that demand for US manufactured goods has fallen, but there’s no reason our current Service economy should struggle like it is.
Bennettiquette@lemmy.world 9 months ago
enlightened bit of context here.
correct me if i’m wrong, but these are the colloquial “golden days” that so many want to return to, right? a period which undoubtedly contributed to the presumption of american exceptionalism in the minds of its citizens.
if only there was a way to build a future out of transparency and sustainable systems instead of perpetuating our collective delusions.
LesserAbe@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I think attributing the “good years” just to post war production is an incomplete explanation. The real issue is irresponsible private ownership and hobbling the value our economy can create.
Creating true value in our work is possible. Once some types of work are done the output can continue to benefit our society for decades. But a confluence of decisions by private owners have meant often we don’t receive that benefit, and instead it’s siphoned away as profit.
DrQuickbeam@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I moved from the US to Italy, where everything is cheaper and better quality, and we get free healthcare, free college, retirement pension and six months paid maternity leave. All this on a 35% tax rate. Public daycare is about $300 a month, housing expenses are about half of what I paid in the US, and while groceries are about the same, they are all local, organic, non GMO and -get this - crops are grown for flavor rather than weight. Houses are smaller here and wages are usually lower, but working hours are less and less intense, and the pace of life is much chiller.
SparrowRanjitScaur@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Oh wow non GMO groceries what a magical fairy tale land.
obinice@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Thankfully we don’t live in the US then, but these same dark times are washing over us in Europe too :-(
TetraVega@lemmings.world 9 months ago
The most important thing is the rich getting richer
Asafum@feddit.nl 9 months ago
The Market Has Spoken: Get Fucked.
A riveting exploration of the markets and society of the 21st century that will be written in 2200 lol
JohnFoe@lemmy.world 9 months ago
We’re DINKs just starting to push into the “living a comfortable life” range. As in, we can do what we want and enjoy doing it.
However, bringing a kid into that picture throws all of that away. Hospital bills, diapers, just the costs in general would wipe us out.
We most likely wouldn’t qualify for any reimbursements and are already maximizing the ones we have such as house financing and taxes.
I obsessively try to keep my “IOUs” to a minimum meaning aggressive mortgage payments and credit cards within the limitations of what I can pay off immediately but even that is difficult.
The house needs work - new siding and windows, unexpected issues like the boiler dieing etc. And I’m generally fearful of what we’d find behind the siding (termites??? everything not up to code?) A new job like that could turn into $40-50K that we just don’t have floating around.
I don’t go to doctors because I was afraid of what I might find. I’m lucky in the fact that my insurance is now pushing in the correct direction but still ludicrously expensive… And I mean ludicrously for the lack of services available that won’t cost me an additional fortune.
The wife also works a must-commute 9-5. Not sure how she, or both of us would be able to handle childcare needs and not feel like we would be neglecting the kid.
When would I ever be able to afford a kid in these situations?
And I am lucky to say that we are DINKs that are getting paid relatively well… How can people that are below us in income survive having kids?
Mahonia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
But there’s actually an outrageous amount of wealth in the west. It just needs to be redistributed.
It’s not an easy problem to fix, but it’s relatively simple.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Unfortunately, much of that wealth was stolen from the global south via colonization. Redistribution of ownership must be done at a global, international level.
Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
And harvested from the stolen land of the indigenous peoples of North America!
Mahonia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I can’t imagine why you’d get downvoted for that. Yes that’s absolutely true and I’m all for a globally equitable wealth redistribution.
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Sami_Uso@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Careful, you’ll get the tankie label for posts like this around these parts
Yondoza@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
There are many things that need change, but fixing the housing prices isn’t complicated, it’s just unpopular. You just need to take make speculating on housing as an asset very expensive. This will drive down the demand from non owner occupiers (businesses). It will also reduce the value of the largest asset most people own. People who invested so much into owning a home with the expectation that it will appreciate aren’t going to support policies that do the opposite.
tillary@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
We should’ve been highly taxing homes that people own but are not living in from the start. Unfortunately we waited too long, and taxing it now will break the economy.
TheDoctorDonna@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Or you keep those taxes the same and use the money to reinforce social programs to make sure no one in your area ever has to go homeless or hungry again.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
We already have first, primary, and only home exceptions to many things. There’s no reason Frank and Martha’s house should be any less valuable. The problem is housing as speculation is causing houses to be priced higher than their real value.
Haagel@lemmings.world 9 months ago
I’m not advocating violence, of course, because that’s illegal both on this platform and in real life.
However, the history of humanity has demonstrated that powerful people need to be publicly executed in order for there to be sea change in economic inequalities. When enough people have nothing to lose, said executions become inevitable.
grue@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m not advocating violence, of course, because that’s illegal both on this platform and in real life.
No it’s not.
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This platform’s policies do not have the force of law.
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Advocating for violence in general isn’t illegal; only specific threats are. (Trump, for example, is an idiot-savant at walking that fine line.)
SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Also the advocating for violence rule has always been weird, because its rarely against the rules to advocate for war, even if it’s literally violence and also much much worse due to the scale and horror of it.
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yeah no, lemmy.world’s admins and mods are already infected with the alt-right taint, calling for eating the rich can and will get you banned.
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Scubus@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Don’t advocate violence. Instead, imply advocacy for violence.
It’s not “let’s kill the rich”, it’s “it’d be a damn shame if someone killed the rich”
It’s not “you’re morally obligated to burn that pipeline”, it’s “you’re morally obligated to burn that pipeline in Minecraft”
EvolvedTurtle@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Wanna reenact the French revolution In Minecraft
forrgott@lemm.ee 9 months ago
The only way to avoid this that I have ever been able to imagine would require our global society to somehow abandon the concept of currency. But that’s insane, of course, so we’re probably screwed…
ComradePorkRoll@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Not insane. Insane is making up a system of what is worth keeping alive and then sacrificing life on Earth for that system. If we want to survive as a species, we might have to embrace a sort of gift economy.
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
A general strike of 3 days with 10% of the population participating would do a LOT more than public executions of billionaires.
That said, there’s no fucking way you will get 10% of the population to agree on ANYTHING anymore because every single communication channel, forum, and social space is FILLED with people who actively create hostile, circular and unproductive environments. Either for the hell of it or at the behest of their corporate masters, the result is the same.
We can’t do it the easy way, so we will suffer until the only choice is the hard way.
All so 8 people can own half the fucking world.
_number8_@lemmy.world 9 months ago
[deleted]Maggoty@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Assuming change involves violence you simply advocate for the change and “defending” your way of life or “taking back” or “sheparding society”. Violent Neo Nazis use this kind of rhetoric all the time to get people to do stupid shit and then escape accountability for winding them up. The absolute best way though? Thoroughly make your case and spread your ideology. When enough people feel like things aren’t going right and they can’t make change any other way, violence is the natural next inflection point.
That all said. We really should be trying to do things peacefully. Political violence is fucking nasty and modern civil wars see things like militias taking control of small towns or neighborhoods to kill everyone they find because they think they voted the wrong way. If we could avoid that I’d be grateful, I really don’t need to witness a second factional battle with hundreds of people on either side right down a main street in a city.
Surreal@programming.dev 9 months ago
People who think of their children and want to give them the best future but don’t have the money for it don’t have children. People who don’t care about the future of their children, ended up having children.
This leads to more children being born with shitty parents who don’t care about them.
Misconduct@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is a bit unfair. There are lots of circumstances that result in children that weren’t planned. Lots of millennials grew up being told to just pop out the babies and the rest will happen. No the fuck it doesn’t. Not anymore anyway. Maybe that was true at some point but now what happens is they have to work harder than ever while daycare raises their kids. Meanwhile, they have to work a second job to just pay for daycare. When I was a kid I remember my mom getting a lot more gov assistance than seems to ever happen for people now. It was rough but we never had to worry a out keeping a roof over our heads or food on our table. Half those life changing programs are gone now. At least in my area.
Mango@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Accidents don’t happen. Keep your dick dry. It’s not hard.
saintshenanigans@programming.dev 9 months ago
It’s not even about money anymore.
I’m not positive that the world is going to be a comfortable place to live in at all in the next 40-80 years. I can’t be sure it’s morally acceptable to bring a new life into the world just to struggle until death. I know if I were given the choice I would have rather just not have been, it’s not worth struggling forever just to barely get by until the game changes yet again and you get knocked back down to the peg you started on.
Icaria@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I can’t be sure it’s morally acceptable to bring a new life into the world just to struggle until death.
That has been true for just about everyone throughout history.
the game changes yet again and you get knocked back down to the peg you started on.
People in the developed world not having kids is part of how they ‘win’ the game.
The reason boomers were able to demand so much is because, as the name implies, they’re a big fucking cohort. They were politically influential from the time they could vote. Keeping birthrates depressed and shipping in cheap foreign labour is how those with power keep everyone else powerless.
It’s a weird situation, but the way to improve living standards for future generations is to… have future generations. Even if you don’t feel like you can entirely support them now.
aidan@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You’ll bring the “Population Bomb” doomers out, proving failed predictions never have consequences for the predictors since they can always say it will happen next year- since 1798
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s class warfare, plain and simple.
The owner class has collectively decided there are too many worker class people and have gone out of their way to make sure that fewer and fewer are born, and to actively punish those who choose to have children.
One thing I want to point out because I’m sure some rightie tightie always whitie is going to come by and say ‘Butbutbut… there are more millionaires now than evar!!!11!1one1!!’
Yes.
They are trust fund kiddies, nearly all of them.
Upward mobility has been actively crippled by stagflation and several ‘once in a lifetime economic crises’ all in the span of 20 years.
Even lower end millionaires are scared of this and claim they are struggling.
Eat the rich, it is the only solution.
chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
It’s wealth inequality. Capital accumulates capital, and it actually means something because wealth is control, and things like housing that determine control over people’s lives are forms of wealth that get concentrated away from regular people along with everything else.
IMO two main things need to happen:
- redistribution of wealth
- increase housing supply
OpenStars@startrek.website 9 months ago
Die.
Whenever I hear someone say “what are people supposed to do?”, that is what I remind myself is the default.
When the rich have taken everything that they want, that is all that is leftover for literally everyone else.
A magic utopia is not the default. That took effort to build, and now the ultra-wealthy are putting in effort to tear it down, so it is ludicrous to think that without effort that things will magically go back to the way they were. That is neither how inertia nor entropy work.
Sorry this is upsetting, but it is the Truth. When Trump wins, it will get even worse, not better. Maybe we should do something about it.
cedarmesa@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is why 3rd world countries have 3-4 generations living under one roof while subsisting on beans and rice. Eventually youre kinda forced into co-housing and living on starches when housing, meat, and veg gets too expensive. Also first world countries export finished goods, third world countries export their natural resources. Remember when they got rid of all the factories and started fracking instead. The oligarchs have slated the united states for a haircut and we’re seeing it at every level.
Jknaraa@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Reproduction isn’t a luxury item. It’s a survival need. The only reason that it’s viewed as such in western society is because our economic system is all kinds of screwed up.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Gotta tax the rich.
It’ll have two effects… 1) not as much money being dumped into real estate. 2) more money available for social programs.
Though on the other side of things some expectations may need to change. Owning a house is going to be really only possible if you live in a rural area. Having a house in the suburbs and having a couple of cars in the garage that you use for everything from commuting to work to picking up groceries will have a high environmental cost so that style of life should be expensive.
Though we can improve the livability of apartments, and lower rent (or mortgage costs for a condo) for high density apartments. Make them larger improve nearby greenspaces nearby so people can comfortable raise a family in high density residential areas.
A lot of the real estate thing is problematic politically. Everyone says they want housing prices to go down, but people that already own a house really don’t. The value of their house will drop if that happens. But given that the suburban ideal isn’t actually all that ideal considering environmental factors, having the price of a house stay high while reducing the cost while increasing the quality of high density housing feels like it should be a politically achievable goal.
But yeah tax the rich, they aren’t all that motivated to to fix housing prices given their current investments in real estate will lose value if they do that. Municipal governments aren’t likely going to zone high density housing either since they get more tax revenue per person from low density housing. If people in low density housing use cars instead of transit, tax revenue - costs of services per person is higher than for people living in high density housing. I’d suggest changing how municipalities raise taxes to avoid this, but saying we should get rid of property taxes sounds like some pro-wealthy kind of thing so isn’t politically feasible. So… tax the rich use the money for social programs, building better public transit and building high density housing.
So yeah the expectation of living the suburban dream isn’t really feasible in most places because of environmental factors. But living a different kind of dream living in a spacious apartment with a green space nearby with reliable public transit available to take people where they need to go seems achievable. And dare I say, may even be better than the suburban dream. But we gotta tax the rich to make it happen.
DaCrazyJamez@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Historically, most families lived together under one roof (even royalty). It was only in post WWII USA that the idea of each generation having its own home became prevalent.
Toneswirly@lemmy.world 9 months ago
meanwhile 1000 and 1 Stinkpieces are being written about population decline, blaming young generations for not getting busy while job and housing prospects go down the shitter.
Saintpaul@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Is anyone on Lemmy doing okay? I always come to the comments of these posts and see the doom and gloom. I’m a millenniaI. I paid off my student loans. I own a home I can afford. I’m debt free besides my mortgage. I have an emergency fund. I have a 401k that’s on track. I worked hard and made sacrifices to get where I am. I can only assume there are others out there who have done the same.
Adalast@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I am that educated couple. Wife has an associates and was just able to find a small job. I have associates, BS, and MA and can’t even get a fucking interview because I don’t have the absolutely insane list of qualifications on my resume that these companies are demanding for a half-decent paying job. I did everything I was supposed to and they still won’t fucking pay me.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
I’m disabled and can’t work in my early 30s now. The numbers for disability benefits haven’t been adjusted for inflation since world war 2. Obviously I can’t afford to live anywhere else.
We’re a crumbling empire, we have an exploding homeless population and the billionaires like it that way. There’s laws in many places here in the where you can’t use any kind of force to remove homeless people from your private property, if you call the cops in those places, they don’t do anything about it.
Part of the problem is that the billionaires want us all to be terrified of each other and to hate our neighbors so that we beg for authoritarianism…even worse than the authoritarianism we have now.
You can’t remove squatters or trespassers, but god forbid if you light up a joint, they’ll throw you in prison for that.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
I went to college, acquired two diplomas, my SO went to college and acquired one as well. My brother has two as well if I recall correctly, and his wife has one as well.
Together, we are four college graduates with upwards of six diplomas between us.
The four of us also had to pool our finances to afford one home.
Quad income, one house.
It’s not a small house but it’s not exactly in a high demand city (we’re pretty far out in a rural area, surrounded by farmland). I also wouldn’t describe the house as large. If my SO and I, or my brother and his wife were to buy this place it might be “large” but with four of us here, it’s fairly modest. We have no significant land, less than a quarter of an acre, and there’s nothing special about the house that makes it cost more (in fact, there were several things that should have lowered the cost). Yet here we are, scraping by with multiple incomes barely able to save at all because the monthly cost of the mortgage is so high… And we need to save, because all of those savings need to exist for when the water heater and furnace and air-conditioner inevitably fail… They’re not new, this is not a new home. I’m still finding aluminum wires that I have to rip out and replace, because if the place burns down and my insurance finds a scrap of aluminum wire, they’ll deny me any coverage for the damage.
My SO and I have no children. That fact is never changing.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 9 months ago
This is why billionaires are so obsessed with developing AI systems to replace all the serfs who will now never be born.
Colour_me_triggered@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I am in my late 30s and was only just able to buy this month. It’s the cheapest place I could find in my city, and the mortgage repayment will clean me and my SO out to the point where we can’t afford to run a car. We’re both in full time employment with an MSc.
Flax_vert@feddit.uk 9 months ago
I honestly think free childcare would solve a lot of problems as well
yesman@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The idea that any working class boomer could raise a family/ own a house on a single income is a myth. That was only true if you were a man, and happened to be white. The federal government built the interstates to the suburbs, the GI bill loaned the money to buy the house, and sent you to college. All to the exclusion of POC and women.
Even the labor unions told black men that you couldn’t be in a union without a job, and couldn’t get hired unless you were in a union. This “golden age” economy was also when a divorced woman couldn’t get a bank account, an apartment, or a job.
The capitalists weren’t sharing more wealth, they were sharing with fewer people.
TengoDosVacas@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Abolish corporations
Haha@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Agree. I am that 30 y o still living at home. Work full time, 2 jobs and STILL cannot afford a rent without it decimating me to the ground. Its nothing to do with my budget: i get close to 3k/mo yet if i try to rent some place, i will pretty much have only about 400/500 left a month…. In a european capital. What is the point of renting in these conditions? And yes i know rationally its possible with my salary but i choose its more fruitful to help parent and be able to save rather than live ln the verge every month without being able to do much.
iAvicenna@lemmy.world 9 months ago
jokes on the rich who need both the working class to keep working for them and the middle upper class to buy their shit. One of them collapses, so does their empire.
Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
This decline is a necessary aspect of Capitalism. Competition, for all it helps initially with forcing prices lower, ultimately comes at the cost of increased exploitation of the Working Class. As all value comes from labor, there is only so much you can immediately automate away to lower cost of production before you must further exploit your labor force to remain competitive.
Socialist markets, ie ones controlled by Worker Co-operatives, still face these issues, but delay them due to being of and for the workers themselves.
Only a non-market form of Socialism, such as Anarchism or Communism, can actually permanently solve these issues. Markets are a useful tool during Capitalism, but just as feudalism gave way to Capitalism, so too will Capitalism give way to a more equitable distribution of control.
EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Maybe gen a will be the ones with the balls to actually rise up, set everything on fire, and kill the people responsible for destroying everything. Because of the rest of us are just sitting around complaining.
And yes, I admit, I’m in that category.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It looks like if gen Z’s massive wave of unionization doesn’t work that’ll be the case. Gen A is likely the water war generation unless we clean up our act enough for it to be gen ß
ornery_chemist@mander.xyz 9 months ago
fails self-restain check
gen β, not ß
Cryophilia@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Ah, gen Z
Us millenials tried that. It was called Occupy Wall Street and we got tear gassed, beaten, and driven away. And then there was a massive effort to erase what they could from media and history, and tarnish the rest.
It was a massive turning point for our generation. It broke us. We went from angry to depressed. We couldn’t beat them. They have the power of massive physical violence behind them, AND control of the media.
Gen Z is trying via unionization, which is a tactic much more likely to succeed. Don’t try to overthrow those in power, they’re too powerful for that. Build up your own power first in whatever manner possible, and then use their own levers of control against them.
Unions need to make a move on the media next. Shawn Fein has been very good at this but it needs more action.
buzziebee@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Occupy Wall Street started strong but quickly decended into uncoordinated nonsense. The initial message was simple, popular, and actionable about how it’s bullshit that global austerity and government cutbacks were hurting the 99% whilst the 1% who caused the crash got off scott free with massive bailouts and tax cuts.
Because it was a “leaderless” collective action it quickly got occupied itself by all sorts of weird and wacky movements who diluted the message and gave the right wing media all the ammo they could ever want to paint the whole thing as “just some crazy hippies chatting shit about communism” or whatever.
It’s pretty typical of movements on the left unfortunately. Everyone wants to be super inclusive so all ideas are equally important and you can’t just dismiss ideas as not being relevant without creating a load of infighting. The alternative however means people with bad ideas (ones who often have more time and energy to boot) can easily take over the conversation and your whole message gets diluted, confused, and easily disarmed by the media.
ArmokGoB@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
We need a raised militia in open, violent rebellion against the police and national guard. Anything less than that is theater.
EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Lol I’m a millennial too I definitely remember that and it’s not what I’m talking about at all. They just stood around for the most part.
FenrirIII@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have been educating my child on unions and workers’ rights. When he’s old enough, we move on to the proper engineering and maintenance of guillotines.
EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Have you considered teaching him welding and bulldozer operation?
sour@kbin.social 9 months ago
programming better
Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It is getting to the point that is the only option. Voting doesn’t matter, protesting doesn’t matter, complaining doesn’t matter. Millennials were raised that those are the processes, we have come to realize they don’t work and our kids are being raised with the understanding that that doesn’t work. If they want things to change, and it literally HAS to, that is what needs to happen. Either accept the status quo or forcefully change it. If I understand history, that is the most American thing you can do.
cooopsspace@infosec.pub 9 months ago
The funny thing is that we have politicians here in Australia that complain about “woke” environmentalists standing up for the environment by sitting down on the road. They’re trying to have them labelled as terrorists for simply sitting down in the street.
Meanwhile in France, Farmers who are angry about stopping of diesel concessions are setting things on fire, blocking streets with tractors and dumping manure and dirt into the street to block public servants responsible into buildings.
The point is two fold, French have always done protests better. And the west conservatives have a massive raging boner for eroding ones rights to protest.
Bronzie@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
I support protesting wholeheartedly, but blocking a road is among the most moronic ways to protest I can think of.
They are blocking emergency vehicles, people going to work, people doing errands, visiting family, goods being transported etc.
There is a reason people get pissed off and pull them off of the road themselves. It does absolutely nothing to further their cause.
It doesn’t even effect the people they protest against.
Imagine missing your kids show, mothers dying breath or the flight to your long awaited vacation and family visit because someone couldn’t think of a more appropriate way to protest than sitting down and being an absolute butthole.
_number8_@lemmy.world 9 months ago
i’d rather complain than be complacent at least
daltotron@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m gonna be honest, I’m a zoomer (ahhh yes I’m a zoomer, I’m a zoomer, yippee! Everyone look at me, I’m the zoomer) and, looking towards the future, my future, I’m already kinda there. I just think we both haven’t quite hit the critical mass where everyone else is at that point, yet, and I think that the narrative about, you know, why things suck, I think that’s been co-opted with a mixed level of success, forcing people to feel “fine” with their circumstances, or, forcing people to feel personally responsible for their circumstances, as the case may be. I also think there’s a good amount of cynicism about standing up to the US government and institutions, since we’ve been fed a shitload of stuff against that, and then, you know, we’re all fucked and have limited resources and whatever. I also think people are probably too nice for their own good, most people just kind of want to chill, even if that means they’re actually not allowed to chill because they have to work 2 jobs and have no energy and one financial emergency could wipe them out instantly.
I dunno, I feel pretty cynical, but I also feel like things will probably get at least a little bit worse, before they get better. I just hope they get worse in the right way, instead of in the whole like, world ending kind of way. Or, localized apocalypse, kind of way, more likely.