Submitted 3 months ago by Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Imagine apartments built into what used to be department stores, (Oh, you’re JC Penny 203? I’m at Sears 106). Get those old arcades up and running. Set up meal stations at the food court. Once people actually live there, stores will start to move back in.
If I’m unable to finish my life in my own home, that doesn’t sound like a terrible option.
As I GenX, I would prefer seeing them made into some sort of public space? We are losing a lot of that, at least where I live. Indoor space in particular.
Can you provide an example since in not fully understanding what you’re after?
I commented below with a similar idea. Like a public indoor park, for when Outside™ is no longer an option for recreation due to climate issues. They are big enough to accommodate large playgrounds, both child and adult style, running tracks, swimming pools, sports fields/courts. Keep the food court, sure, throw in a library, etc.
If we ever get a house and senate progressive enough to shave like 0.000000001% of the military budget we could put one in every abandoned mall and have funds left over.
3rd places.
counterargument; malls, arcades, and bookstores should come back in style because they were amazing and we don’t know what we missed until it’s gone.
Malls are sign of bad ciry planning
They will come back as the US shifts away from car centered culture, malls thrive in Europe
How will shifting away from cars result in more people going to the mall? How are you supposed to get there?
If they come back, I hope they will be more accessible on foot, with a bike, or with efficient public transit. Because if they are still surrounded by deserts of parking lots, only filled with EVs instead of ICEs, they can continue to die.
If parts of it become residential like OP suggested, then it’ll be accessible by foot.
It’s already a problem if they are not in the city center, as it sucks out business from the center and creates more traffic.
In my country (and I think most of Europe) malls (especially those in more central areas) have underground parking, or limited above-ground parking. There is a really nice one which is connected to a big park in the back. So maybe you can replace the parking lots with apartment buildings, recreational spaces and transit infrastructure and maybe include some underground parking.
As a millennial I can tell you that most millennials I know wouldn’t want this but instead make it a place for none corporation and community events and such. A public place where your not forced to buy things where can just exist with others even if you have zero money and accessible to all genders and disabilities and races.
And yes retrofit part of it for people who need to get back on there feet, and homeless people.
If we could retrofit them into homeless shelters we could but it would require rebuilding mostly everything as malls are designed for stores not housing people (for instance the bathrooms are not private and not easily accessible if you live somewhere in it)
I know it’s hard to imagine since you’ve pretty much got to pay to exist anywhere today, but malls were a place to just exist. I spent hours and hours wandering around the mall in the eighties without any money.
Expanding on the thought, it was perfectly ok to be, get this, a TEENAGER existing without any money in a mall!
In my country malls were never this. When I was young several malls, specially high end ones, banned unaccompanied teenagers during weekdays and at certain hours. Also, fuck malls with absolutely no seating or resting spaces outside of the food court. I hope they all go broke and get demolished.
I have no respect for people with no shopping agenda
malls were a place to just exist
Not really. Malls existed because enough of the people who went there were spending enough money to make them profitable.
Yes it was permissible to go to a mall and not spend any money, and a lot of people did just that, but that doesn’t mean malls did not require most people to be spending money.
Yesss, give us community spaces that are not designed around maximizing profits.
Elsewhere, someone suggested that it would be necessary to take the rebuild down to the dirt to handle plumbing and the like for individual units, but I’m not sure I agree.
Generally there is significant excess ceiling height in these commercial spaces, no reason the floor couldn’t be raised throughout the space to accommodate plumbing and the like in a way that’s easily accessible for future maintenance. You still end up with 8’ ceilings (or probably rather more) throughout.
Over the years, I’ve watched a number of retail chains and malls die, sometimes suddenly and sometimes slowly. It’s continuously seemed like a huge waste to me, when conversion to residential space would be relatively easy, relatively affordable, could be funded by local gov or nonprofit, and would make a significant difference in net housing costs in a given area.
When ‘traditional’ residential developers are competing with that, and with the ability to slap down standard-sized (AKA easy) risers/walls/etc. within commercial spaces of defined sizes, a further reduction in local housing costs is likely.
Adding a load bearing floor sounds pricey. I’d go for industrial and have the pipes exposed.
In a city in my country there was an old mall that was slowly taken over by bands who used the spaces as rehearsal rooms. It gained a huge following including some local big bands and concerts. They all paid rent too. Unfortunately, early this year, they were evicted by the owner and City Hall, out of nowhere and are on its way to become airbnb’s for tourists…
Nothing new…
you have to go all the way down below the dirt to prep a site for residential units. With a toilet, shower, and sink per unit, the density of sewer and water plumbing is much higher than commercial. Fire codes also demand egress points (a.k.a. windows) for every bedroom - hard to do Inside a big box retail space.
Is a mall on Black Friday ( in the mall heyday) really lighter than a residence of the same footprint? Or is the average weight over time more important than a dozen hours every once in a while?
Malls are usually multiple stories. Couldn’t you do all the plumbing on the first floor to avoid going underground. And then add structural reinforcement at the first floor to prevent higher floors from collapsing / sinking? Yeah for egress you’d have to put the bedrooms along the exterior walls. But I’m sure you could still get plenty of use over the space which does not border an exterior wall both as part of the unit and as part of some shared community area.
How do earth-sheltered homes comply? I’ve seen a few, and they have no windows in most of the rooms, including bedrooms. And there’s a few who’ve taken to living in caves, old mines, and decommissioned missile silos. There must be an exception to this code.
Forget that, how to tower blocks comply? There isn’t a single exterior fire escape on any of the multi-story apartment buildings anywhere in my entire county, and some of those fuckers are 7 or 8 stories tall. Your choices in the event of fire are an interior stairwell, or splat.
Bet you’re real fun on renovation shows…
…I want someone like them working on every single renovation
It’d be kind of neat to build adjoining residential structures onto an existing mall such that the mall would be a common indoor area. Suppose the HOA dues would be murder, though. 😆
This isn't a too shabby of an idea. It probably won't be used but a mix of stores and homes in one building sounds great.
The idea of apartments centered around a grocery plaza has been a thing for a while. It's almost an answer, except it still requires transportation to everything else. Plus the stores tend to be higher prices to support the cost of property and because they can.
apartments centered around a grocery plaza has been a thing for a while
Do you mean like… a town?
Add a metro station, a large parking garage, should work
That would be a cool place to live to me.
ITT: people want cyberpunk megabuildings
Stahp, I’m not even 40 yet.
And you won’t be able to retire in 20 years, or 30, maybe 40, if you’re lucky
mall walks!
With those moving walkways you see in airports.
But keep the appearance of a mall.
That way when we all have Alzheimer’s from micro plastics, we can wander around it and feel young
In some places they’re already doing it to revitalize the majority of the mall, convert a section and suddenly you’ve got people around 24/7 that want services.
Yeah, they’re trying that around here and failing spectacularly. The recent fascination for new construction in my area seems to be try this “Main Street, USA” shit where they build brutalist flat-roof apartment blocks but with the ground level being retail stores. The rationale seems to be to attempt to build some kind of enclave where people can live, work, and shop without ever having to leave. The only glaring caveats are that the only retail businesses that ever appear here are all shitty franchised fast-casual restaurants where nobody wants to go, with the gaps filled in by the usual parade of payday loan places, cash for gold, crossfit joints that attract no members, and a revolving door of nail salons and wannabe hipster barber shops opening and going out of business.
Notably, none of the retail joints at street level pay enough for anyone working there to afford the astronomical rent for one of the apartments in the same fucking building. These motherfuckers can’t even set up a company town correctly…
I’m talking about taking an existing mall and converting part of it, not new constructions
This sounds like such bad idea. Just demolish them.
Knock these things down and plant trees and stuff.
While we’re at it knock all the corporate 9to5 office work buildings where all the employees can work from home and plant trees and stuff there too.
Trees and ponds and natural parks and shit, hiking trails…etc.
I’ve seen some concepts for mall-like communities based around retirement homes and elementary schools. Add a library, some shops, and other services, and you’re off to a great start.
The old-but-still-able folks can serve as crossing guards, read books to kids, play games with them, perhaps help with coaching or other tasks, etc… The young kids benefit from the wisdom and time spent with good role models, the retirees get much-needed social interaction, structure, and purpose.
A man can dream.
That makes way too much sense.
Add a library
In the US? Lol. Certainly not a public library.
Would probably end up with like, “Sbarro Presents: The Library - an interactive replica of what a late 20th century libraries are thought to have looked like”
I’m surprised nobody has mentioned the person who came up with malls WANTED them to be just as you described… Not some shopping centre thing
Care to elaborate?
If memory serves me right, the person who invented the mall, was an Austrian immigrant in the US. He wanted to recreate the experience of Austrian walkable city centre streets (which are full of mixed-use buildings, with storefronts at the bottom floor and apartments above). But I think only having shops was deemed more profitable by corporate.
That would be really good, but this idea has been explored and unfortunately it is only viable on a very narrow amount of buildings. Most malls aren’t properly built to be housing and the costs of adapting them for housing exceed the cost of just building new housing elsewhere. And the costs of tearing it down and rebuilding are even greater. Overall, Malls are economic net negatives for communities, all single use infrastructure constructions are.
This is the answer.
A cheap / half assed conversion would be a ghetto. It would be awful.
Sanitation would be a huge problem also. In an apartment you have access to air from the outside. Imagine everyone living in a box in the same enclosed space. Yes I understand malls have gargantuan (and expensive) air conditioning systems. It would still stink.
Not to mention the money. Even a derelict mall is still worth many millions of dollars. You have to buy or lease the building from them.
You’d be much better off creating a walkable community of low-cost housing in a low-density semi-rural area.
As other people have mentioned, this can be a hard problem.
However, malls are typically surrounded by massive amounts of space used for parking. There is a plan for the largest mall in my region to convert all of that land into residential spaces, 2000 apartments. The parking will be moving underground.
Seems like a decent idea to me.
Yeah the malls themselves are hard to convert. Ditto for those unused office buildings downtown. Takes a lot of work to change commercial space into residential.
Easier to start from scratch, honestly. Those empty parking lots make it simple to put up medium density housing, and then put commercial spaces back into the mall. Aka the Reston Town Center model.
Would be even better if instead of 2000 apartments, it was something like 1100 condos, then the rest split between offices, shops (including groceries), parks, and some sort of community recreation center. Do the same with the surrounding area, changing up the specialties of the locations a bit so that it’s worth it to leave your mall-sized area and visit others.
Then set up a mass transit system that goes between them, including consideration for people wanting to move large purchases like furniture and appliances, like one of the cars on the train has large doors, collapsible seats, and hardware for securing things too big for one person to safely hold. Or set up a parallel delivery system for things while the people ride the delivery system for people.
Then you don’t need the underground to go to parking and can increase the density of the area or put more space towards parks and recreation.
Welcome to many parts of Europe, you are invited to come visit any time :)
As a millenial, all I want is the LAN party old folks home.
Can’t have residential buildings in an area zoned for commercial use.
Just right click on the area and rezone it!
meanwhile, OSM was filled with bad edits
do rezonings not happen?
We got time to make it work.
That is absolutely untrue. Dual zoning is very common, especially between commercial and high density residential. Some are triple zoned with light industrial as well.
I’m down and claiming the candy store in 113!
I would love to see this kind of repurposing of properties to be far more common! Malls tend to be fairly central, so they make ideal locations for being nearby everything a person could need in a residential setting.
Wait you guys are retiring?
It’s funny you think millenials can afford to retire at 60
If my retirement home has Dance Dance Revolution, I may just have to get myself a new hip.
Nah. Vaporwave themed laser tag arenas. Let’s go.
Cool idea but lack of natural light could be an issue.
Maybe 10 or so years ago, was a real push to convert old malls into apartments or low income housing. Turns out it’s not that easy. Those buildings were built with minimal plumbing, just a few public restrooms and limited water service for the food court. There’s just not enough water/sewer to supply more than a small handful of apartments. You’d have to tear up significant portions of the building to run all new plumbing for all the kitchens & bathrooms. And that assumes the underlying city infrastructure that runs to the mall could even support the new water & sewage demands in the first place.
I’ll grant you, it is a cool idea. It’s just not nearly as simple as it sounds.
If I could buy a large abandoned mall, I would absolutely love to turn it into an affordable community housing complex where shops can be set up. There’s definitely more than enough space in any mall I’ve ever been to in America where you could easily renovate and turn stores into either single unit housing or maybe 2-3 units (big stores like JCPenney or Sears not included in this count because you could turn those into tens upon tens of units, assuming they’re as big as the ones at the mall near where I live).
They’ve turned one mall in my city into a community college and office space, and the other is going strong and attracting new tenants
They tore down the big, stagnating mall a few minutes from my place years ago. It’s still a big, empty lot.
This would have been a much better and surely most cost-effective solution. Instead, we’re probably eventually gonna get another soulless office park in spite of dwindling demand.
No God please no. I hated malls as a child, this would be some sort of fucked up psychological torture.
blazera@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Not even renovated, just set me up in a hot topic.
Aggravationstation@feddit.uk 3 months ago
Can’t. The goth kids burned it down www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OvUDHpPgb4
Texas_Hangover@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Dibs on Spencers!
themeatbridge@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Have you been in a Spencer’s recently? Remember the skeezy area in the back? That’s now the whole thing.