To a theist, all things are the creation of god. There’s no argument that can’t be settled as “god made it that way”. The real place you gotta hit em is in the arrogance of believing that the almighty created the bible, not humanity. And if they say that a sentient entity willed it thusly, then we return to the problem of evil: if humans are capable of evil, and this is god’s will, then the benevolent god in the bible is not accurately depicted. I wonder what else the bible got wrong? Maybe their god willed the creation of a bible that got stuff wrong on purpose?
Eat lead
Submitted 1 year ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/0552e441-92df-4674-9c0c-eb3f56159623.jpeg
Comments
TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee 1 year ago
baggins@beehaw.org 1 year ago
You could just ask the mice.
rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Where is the proof about these magic numbers? Checkmate atheist. /s
unrelatedkeg@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
All math is a lib lie! Just look at those blasphemous arabic numerals!
Death_Equity@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Numbers are a terrorist plot confirmed.
We will not be afraid.
T156@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The problem with that argument is that it falls into the Last Thursdayist problem.
It could just as well be argued that the lead was created instantly in that state, or mid-decay.
ameancow@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The problem with this argument from the fundamental level is that 99% of religious zealots don’t give two shits about your science or facts. There is a whole segment of the human population that has no mind for factual information and just decides to believe whatever they feel.
There is no real arguing with these people, they don’t care about evidence or science, I am quite convinced they don’t even understand things the same way as other people and don’t have an internal mind-voice that works the same way as other people. It’s just a totally different conscious experience, and despite making full use of our science and technology, they don’t exist in a world where that matters.
The hard part about this understanding is you realize there’s no resolution. They can’t be changed because they’re not unsatisfied with their world. A smart person is never satisfied and will always ask questions and even ask questions about the questions. Not these people. They actively are annoyed by questions and even see learning things as a kind of sin or spiritual crime.
So lets save our collective energy and instead focus on making classrooms better funded and knowledge available and unavoidable for the younger children growing up in this world and still developing their minds. I was pulled out at an early age simply by finding a few science books, others can be too.
m3t00@lemmy.world 1 year ago
round numbers are always made up. change my mind
Mercuri@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I typically use the fact that there are trees older than 4000 years old based on tree ring data. Or that there are stars in the sky further than 4000 light years away that we can see in the sky.
That usually makes them say something like how their God created an world that was already aged. So I usually counter with the fact that would make their God a lier and deceiver.
Some hold firm and say God did to to test faith. Others back pedal and try to blame it on Satan. That Satan scattered all this false evidence just to make us question the notion that Earth is 4000 years old to make people lose faith in God. And then I have to laugh at how stupid their argument is and how weak their God is.
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The important thing is, you’re compelling people to examine their pre-existing beliefs. They won’t change their beliefs during your conversation, because deprogramming takes time. But the more seeds of doubt you plant, the better the chances are that some will germinate.
I find that the most effective way to encourage people to question themselves is to discuss things calmly and in good faith, through in-person conversations. Challenging people to “convert me” has been surprisingly fruitful - after all, I honestly would love to believe that a benevolent deity is looking out for us all. (As well, tons of believers would equally love to be the one who “shows [you or me] the light.”) I want them to provide compelling evidence that can change my mind.
Approaching the conversation in this fashion not only challenges the “missionary” types to think harder, but it also shifts the onus onto them to convince you. If they’ve never thought critically about their message, this kind of conversation may introduce questions that stick with them long after it’s over.
kitnaht@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And even better because they start to come to their own thought-out conclusions. There’s less baggage in the way for them to eventually work their way through it. Especially when they’ve got to convince you - because mysteriously they always jump to all of this “proof” to show you.
It doesn’t happen immediately, and if you try to speed it up you’ll just cause them to reverse course.
I’ll sprinkle a little bit of … my own confusion into the mix? As an example, I’ll remain interested, but be like “wait, you said X but then you said Y - doesn’t that contradict X?” I’ll let them explain and not fight them on it, but send them off with a warm smile.
Not everyone will break free of the programming, but some will - and that’s all I can hope for.
jenny_ball@lemmy.world 1 year ago
but who made the uranium?
gandalf_der_12te@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
We obviously live in a matrix/simulated world, and it can’t be older than 50 years, because before that, computers didn’t exist. Checkmate.
/jk
yarr@feddit.nl 1 year ago
Here’s the bad faith argument:
At the moment of creation, God placed some partially decayed metals on the planet to fool the non-believers.
This is basically why the existence of dinosaur bones doesn’t bother them either – they just hand-wave it away.
INHALE_VEGETABLES@aussie.zone 1 year ago
“The devil put them there”
Floshie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Satan do be metal
normalexit@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“God works in mysterious ways” /s
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Counter handwave, any god that would do that is a jerk who doesn’t deserve worship. (Actually like 99% of the shit most faiths deities do falls into that category.)
yarr@feddit.nl 1 year ago
Bad faith argument:
In the holy book, inspired by this god, he tells you he DOES deserve worship. Furthermore, were you to ignore his advice, he will punish you eternally.
matt1126@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Hehe bad faith
ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
You can throw as much science at them as you want. God could have just created everything in whatever state he wanted to. Same thing with the virgin mary discussion. Who cares if it makes sense scientifically, god can just make a fertilized egg appear. How lame would god be if he could not do that? This is the basis christians start from, wo why even bother trying to debate that?
Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ah the “Last Tuesday Hypothesis”.
Rediphile@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
But could he heat up a burrito so hot that even he could not eat it?
If not, that’s pretty weak. But if so, also pretty weak.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 1 year ago
Could he create a rock heavy enough, that he can’t lift it?
ClassifiedPancake@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Go away with your logic!
Object@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Is this even a real tweet? If it is, why even bother trying to recreate it in paint?
sweetpotato@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
I genuinely don’t understand how uranium can exist a-priori in this argument but lead not? I might be missing something.
Pazuzu@midwest.social 1 year ago
The original post only gave half the explanation. It’s not that lead exists in general, it’s that lead exists within zircon crystals.
Under normal circumstances that would be impossible, zircon crystals strongly reject lead atoms as they form. There’s no way to stuff lead into the crystal lattice in the quantity we find them there. But uranium and zircon go together just fine, we just have to wait for it to decay into lead. The trouble is it takes ~4.5 billion years for just half of those uranium atoms to turn into lead. So any zircon crystal we find with half as much lead as uranium must be roughly that old
xx3rawr@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
This the explanation I’m looking for. OP didn’t make sense to me, lead could be created in supernovae and shit just like every other heavy element
Jyek@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
But that still doesn’t change the belief that a creator could have created the universe in whatever state it currently exists in. That’s why these arguments never go anywhere with hard core young earth creationists. It’s also not worth the energy arguing with them because they often believe that anyone trying to convince them otherwise is an antichrist trying to lead them astray.
sandbox@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, it’s not at all a compelling argument.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Isn’t it more about being able the view the whole life cycle of lead, which takes more than 4000 years.
mosiacmango@lemm.ee 1 year ago
“God put all of that there, and then made it work to ensure we had quality lead gasoline, pipes and paint to poison our brains with.”
Linsensuppe@feddit.org 1 year ago
Can someone explain to me why lead cant exists like that and HAS to come from another element? Why cant it just… exist?
shrugs@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Pazuzu@midwest.social explained above:
The original post only gave half the explanation. It’s not that lead exists in general, it’s that lead exists within zircon crystals.
Under normal circumstances that would be impossible, zircon crystals strongly reject lead atoms as they form. There’s no way to stuff lead into the crystal lattice in the quantity we find them there. But uranium and zircon go together just fine, we just have to wait for it to decay into lead. The trouble is it takes ~4.5 billion years for just half of those uranium atoms to turn into lead. So any zircon crystal we find with half as much lead as uranium must be roughly that old
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Some star fusion science can create radium but not lead?
asdfbla@lemmynsfw.com 1 year ago
A normal Star, which does not end it’s life with a supernova, can only produce elements up to Iron with normal fusion. All other elements are produced by e.g. supernovas, which tend to produce heavier elements initially (due to the forces involved) hat decay over time.
At least that is my pseudoscience knowledge about this
LouSlash@szmer.info 1 year ago
Because it needs a…
… leader
And009@reddthat.com 1 year ago
God made lead right after creating life
Whorehoarder@lemmynsfw.com 1 year ago
Actually He started with lead. All life comes from lead. Praise the lead. It’s not lead poisoning, it’s lead salvation! Also Led Zeppelin is Christian rock and spreading the gospel.
pyre@lemmy.world 1 year ago
the answer completely disregards the fact that people who even remotely understand how these things work wouldn’t believe stupid shit in the first place. there are so many ways for this guy to just dismiss this.
how would you even know, you can’t have studied these for billions of years
who says lead only can exist in this manner
what is this is true but god also made lead along with the earth
etc etc… this is very weak if the goal is really try to convince this guy to look into some things rather than smell your own farts.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
There are many scientists who are strict belivers. They just move the act of creation to the big bang.
pyre@lemmy.world 1 year ago
yeah the insistence of creation meaning it happens in an instant is just demonstrably not warranted. we already say god created us. and we know we don’t come into existence in full adult form in an instant. we have a whole birth-baby-toddler-kid-teen-adult transformation. and before that we know there is a whole process in the womb. so when god creates a person he puts an entire process into motion. why can this not be the case for the entire universe? why not evolution? are they saying that god couldn’t have thought of a system? I find it weird.
bamfic@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My farts are delicious thank you very much.
FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 1 year ago
All young Earth creationist should be exiled to a remote desert island to die
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.org 1 year ago
Two islands, divide them by sex. If you don’t, they will eventually overpopulate and start colonizing places.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Too risky. What if u misgender one accidentially? Put each on a separate island. Or into a sealed barrel and just into the ocean.
mineralfellow@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I was a YEC before going to university. I studied geology. After two years, I accepted that evolution happened. After four years, I was an atheist. I went on to get a doctorate, and I have published quite a few papers about rocks that are >2 billion years old.
As a kid, there were literally 0 authority figures in my life that accepted that evolution happened. It was taken as a given that it was ridiculous. My biology teacher skipped the chapter on evolution, saying, “this is controversial.”
Patience, love, and making critical information available gives kids like I was a chance.
dch82@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
My biology teacher skipped the chapter on evolution, saying, “this is controversial.”
How was that legal?
fellowmortal@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
That is quite a journey! I hope that it wasn’t too fraught (learning shouldn’t have to be). Well done on making good of it!
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Should we start building a big wooden boat for them?
FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There’s just no way that they could ever be anything but a drain to society
Bobmighty@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Engagement bait.
skozzii@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
ALLEGEDLY .
friendly_ghost@beehaw.org 1 year ago
I think you meant to say a-lead-gedly
Chekhovs_Gun@lemmy.world 1 year ago
ALLEADGEDLY
Snapz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“Whatever! Pssshhh!”
nialv7@lemmy.world 1 year ago
this argument isn’t going to work on someone who believes god created said lead… and also, pretty sure not all lead is created from nuclear decay.
i get dunk on people feels satisfying, but this is just bad science communication through and through
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There are exactly 1.6 x 10^18 kilograms of lead on earth but every three minutes or so a brand new gram is welcomed into existence due to the radioactive decay of uranium.
Calculate that flat earthers!
Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Also, the half life is when half of it decays. Some of it is constantly decaying. We don’t need to wait for the half life to see any of it. The ratios would be totally off if there was enough of it to get the amount of lead we have right now, but some would exist. When the math is that complex, it’s not going to change anyone’s mind who believes what a magic book (written by regular humans) says. Nothing will, be if you want a chance it has to be something simple and obvious.
ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I had a conversation with a woman who strongly believed God put the dinosaur bones there to test our faith.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
what an idiot, clearly god put the bones in the ground because dinosaurs were his favourite creation and he wanted us to know about them. Had he not put them there we’d have no idea, and he’d be very sad.
rockerface@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Some lead might have been created from supernova fusion, probably. I’m not actually sure if it’s the right isotope or if lead even has radioactive isotopes that we know of
TonyTonyChopper@mander.xyz 1 year ago
Anything can be radioactive if you add enough neutrons
humblebun@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Scientism is yet another religion
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 1 year ago
Welcome to /c/science_memes@mander.xyz with memes about…you might never have guessed…Science!
humblebun@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Scientism is not equal to science. Scientism is a way of thinking that’s similar to a religion with saint texts written in physics and biology. It denies religion, while preserving its very structure. The meme is a good example of it.
affiliate@lemmy.world 1 year ago
unfortunately i don’t believe in uranium or numbers higher than 200, so this argument doesn’t work on me
xia@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
In the begining, was uranium, and the uranium was not stable?
madcaesar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
WERE YOU THERE TO SEE IT??? - The next moronic rebuttal
JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 year ago
“God made the world with lead in it”
TriflingToad@lemmy.world 1 year ago
is this even a real conversation? its just circles and rectangles
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
But the half life of polonium 210 is just 138 days. other is a few days. radium 226 is 1602 years. Why couldn’t the earth have started with a lot of radium 226? Checkmate round earthers.
psycho_driver@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Oh yeah, well were you there 4.5 billion years ago to see this so-called uranium 238?!?
Check mate, science!
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Technically this could all be true even if the universe were created 4000 years ago. As somebody says in Robert Heinlein’s novel Job: A Comedy of Justice, “Yes, the universe is billions of years old, but it was created 4000 years ago. It was created old.” (approximate quote from memory)
I absolutely agree with science, but strictly speaking we can’t know for sure that it wasn’t the creation of some superbeing who operates outside of the laws of physics - or it could even be a simulation.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’m not siding with the 4000 year old earth argument, but that is a weak counterargument.
Lead was created by dying stars that long predate the Earth.