Christians think gay people are trying to convert them to being gay *because Christians try to convert people to being Christian*.

Comments

• cmoney@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Every accusation is a confession. Also it’s funny to think everyone is a latent homosexual all they need is to come in contact with another homosexual to activate their homosexuality.

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  • someguy3@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Many think being gay is a choice because they are bisexual. So for them it’s a choice on whether or not to act on it. So they project that it’s a choice for everyone.

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    • nifty@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It would be simpler to not be a bisexual. Why choose to make life harder?

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  • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Considering all the other things they consider temptations, if it’s half as fun as everything else they hate, I might have to try this being gay thing!

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    • Tremble@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I hear it’s okay to suck a few cocks as long as you clearly say, “no homo” first. Just a fyi if you were seriously considering giving in to your sinful thoughts.

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  • YurkshireLad@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’ve got a couple of gay friends, and after I’ve spent time with them, my homo be raging.

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  • hglman@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It’s sort of true, if you have been raised to suppress your want of people of the same sex, being confronted with things that you find arousing but forbidden makes your suppression hard. That is you are now aware that you are gay.

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  • z00s@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Only their balls though. It’s only gay if the balls touch.

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• HowManyNimons@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Again, everything that a conservative says or thinks is projection. They tell on themselves constantly.

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• athos77@kbin.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I think it's more that "these people" didn't used to 'exist' in their world: Sexual minorities weren't talked about and were invisible for the most part. But since Stonewall and AIDS, LGBT+ people first decided and then learned not to hide themselves. Suddenly someone who you thought of as normal has 'become' gay. You obviously knew them well, it's not possible they were hiding something from you, and there's no chance your observations were incorrect - clearly, instead of you being wrong, something happened to them, something 'turned them gay' - it must have been the frogs, or music, or DnD, or something, it's just impossible you were wrong!

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• TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If you can be converted to being gay, then you were always gay. It’s like if you have to pray the gay away, you are gay my guy

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  • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Everyone’s at least a bit gay.

    I might not like all cocks, but I certainly like mine.

    When cuntservatives say they are afraid of being ‘gay converted’, what they are really saying is ‘I’m setting up a defense early in case someone catches me on camera servicing a glory hole at the truck stop like I do every sunday after church.’

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• mokus@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  No but fr have you tried being left handed?

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  • emptyother@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Dont try to drag me into your sinister, ink stained agendas!

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    • mokus@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Hey if you prefer they can be graphite-stained

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  • agent_flounder@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    SToP ShOvInG YoUr lEFt HaNdEd iDeOlOgY DoWn mY ThRoAt

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  • Rednax@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I love the fact that people joke about this nowadays. Because my mom still has bad memories from her childhood, where her teachers forced her to be right handed, acting as if it was a choice, and she was just really bad at writing. This was not a third world country either, but the Netherlands.

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    • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      U.S. same here, my mother’s teachers AND my grandmother beat her regularly with a ruler if she tried writing with her natural dominant hand.

      Was so cursed it followed her the rest of her life and even after she was living on her own she wouldn’t use her left hand for writing.

      The year she passed away she told me about it with tears in her eyes, it stuck with her for 70 years.

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  • firkin_slang_whanger@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I have and it’s amazing!

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• gapbetweenus@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Also we actually have forced left handed people to become right-handed.

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  • aidan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Weird I’ve heard about this from so many countries, from Japan to almost every communist country.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The US did it too for a while. The justification seems to have been something to do with left-handed versus right-handed brain processing or something like that. They were worried that they were going to get a generation of artists and poets and that no one would actually do anything industrial.

      Also there’s something in the Bible about people having left hands being agents of the devil, although it seems to only be in certain editions.

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    • UncleGrandPa@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Happened to my mother. In the US, in the 30s.

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    • iknowitwheniseeit@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Happened to my wife’s mother in the Netherlands in the 1950s. She did everything left handed but wrote right handed.

      By the 1970s this was over here, so I guess the southpaws were able to convert enough people to their godless ways. 😉

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  • Hnazant@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Did me until 2nd grade. That teacher gave me left handed scissors with a laugh.

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  • andros_rex@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Similarly, lots of parents of Deaf children were told not to teach them sign language.

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• sagrotan@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  One day, 2 Church persons tried to talk to me about Jesus-guy, I bet them in and talked about 2 hours about free choice, real science and evolution. Tried to “discuss” it like they do it, just don’t let other arguments be valid and come back to the same shit again and again. I didn’t let them go until they almost panicked. Never heard from them again. Btw they didn’t touch their tea, hmm. I really tried to convert them to self-thinking, I still hope, something stays with them.

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  • HelixDab2@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That doesn’t work, unfortunately. What tends to work is epistemology, where you try to get at how they know what they “know”, and the roots of their belief. It also helps if you really develop a rapport with someone, are genuinely empathetic, and aren’t asking obviously leading questions; you want to help someone begin to question their own beliefs, rather than telling them to justify their beliefs to you, if that makes sense.

    Really deconverting someone can take a long time.

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• Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Its always just projection

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• Mr_Blott@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  And by christians, you mean American Christians. The rest of the world’s god-botherers don’t do this. Yous are fucking weird bunch, that’s why yous got turfed out of Europe in the 15th century 😂😂

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  • Ashyr@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, there’s a lot of history to this, but it’s a part of why there’s so many unusual or distinctive off-shoots of Christianity that come from the US: Jehovah’s Witnesses, LDS, Seventh Day Adventists, Evangelicalism, etc…

    It’s not just the Puritans, in fact, it’s mostly not, though they’ve given us plenty of other cultural baggage.

    Because we weren’t our own nation, we didn’t have our own bishop in the church of English, so for ministers to get ordained they had to go to England to be trained and then come back.

    This gave rise to a conflict between the New Lights and Old Lights. The New Lights were basically proto-evangelicals and they determined that the proof of qualification to be a minister wasn’t a degree, education, or some church approval from overseas, but the ability to gather a church.

    This meant that charisma became the defining trait for a successful minister. This is why evangelicals have such terrible theology. There’s all these ideas that are mainstream evangelical ideas that never existed before this period.

    The rapture was created during this period. That’s right, for nearly 1800 years Christians wouldn’t even know what you meant if you said “the rapture” and now evangelicals wander around telling everyone to be prepared.

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    • TheaoneAndOnly27@kbin.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Do you have any recommendations for a book on this topic? I'm super intrigued.

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  • Agrivar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So… the Catholic Church, well known for traveling the world to shove Jesus down everyone’s throats, is an American institution now? Got it.

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    • Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No, but they stopped knocking when Europe became more secular.

      I haven’t had anyone in the last 20 years come knocking on my door about religion.

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  • zero_spelled_with_an_ecks@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Heh, and before the 15th century it was the American Christians that went on Crusades, yeah?

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    • Mr_Blott@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      History not your strong subject then 😊

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  • 1rre@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    For real though

    It’s all the fun banning puritans who got booted out of the country after their coup and subsequent dictatorship finally got overthrown who were the bulk of the Thirteen Colonies, which largely just left the “love thy neighbour” Christians who actually campaign against racism, homophobia, climate change and whatever else is an insult to “God’s creation” which frankly I can completely get behind even if I don’t believe it as such.

    Frankly I don’t get the mind bending logic to ignoring all the “everyone is God’s child, he has made them as he sees fit, he loves them, you should love them too” stuff in the bible and skipping past to a small subsection which says that men shouldn’t sleep together, especially when they ignore the fact that the same section says that anyone who works on a Sunday should be put to death along with a bunch of other wild and wacky stuff that we just all collectively agree was a product of the time it was written…

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    • conciselyverbose@kbin.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Also Jesus pretty much tossed out all the "unclean" nonsense in Peter's dream or whatever.

      I wonder how many of them follow the diet though.

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  • TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Well us and Africa… and Russia

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• bi_tux@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Image

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• kaitco@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This is an asinine take on Christianity. What’s the point here?

  The vast majority of Christians in the world don’t do this and don’t think like this. Hateful people are going to hate what is different no matter its form.

  If you labeled this “Muslims openly behead gays because they believe gays would do the same” the post would be just as inane as it is in its current state.

  Hate is hate.

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  • cmoney@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Strange we rarely hear from the vast majority or least the vast majority doesn’t speak out to condemn their hateful brothers and sister, in fact I’ve yet to meet one of these open and accepting Christians in my 44 years on this earth and I live in a heavily populated christian city.

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    • kaitco@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The vast majority rarely speak on anything.

      I’m sorry you’ve never met one of these “open and accepting” Christians. I haven’t met someone who’s been to the IST, but I know people have been there. I think it would be nice if you open your mind to the idea that there are people that exist that you’ve not met.

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  • Nurse_Robot@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The post would be more accurate if it was targeting Mormons, as they’re literally door knockers. However Christians do have a very well documented and prolific history of traveling and attempting to convert others. They are especially known for praying on the less fortunate and taking advantage of people who lack basic necessities You’re in denial if you’re attempting to claim otherwise.

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    • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      praying

      Pun intended? They prey on the vulnerable as they pray.

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  • zloubida@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah. I’m a very religious Christian and never knocked a door and I believe homosexuality isn’t a sin. And I know atheists or at least agnostics who actually believe that there’s an homosexual propaganda trying to “homosexualize” people.

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    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Does your book not say that homosexuality is a sin?

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  • someguy3@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The point is projection.

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    • kaitco@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I argue that you are making an asinine general assumption.

      The American evangelicals that are screaming about gays and abortions do not represent all Christians. Just as I wouldn’t want everyone outside of the US to judge me by the actions of one American like Donald Trump, it is not right to assume Christian = hateful.

      This post serves no purpose. There are better ways to get your fake internet points.

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• mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Hi: Theistic Christian here.

  Worship who/what you want and marry who you love and be kind to everyone. Even the people you don’t like. Trans people are people and good deeds don’t get you into heaven.

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  • Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Great! Do you say this stuff around your Christian friends?

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    • Dkarma@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No shit where are the rest of these so called good Christians???

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    • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      All the time, and some of them get pretty pissed about it.

      A lot are cool though, and some of them feel the same way.

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Then what gets you into heaven?

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    • mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      If you are a Christian, by Salvation alone as a gift that no man can earn, given by great sacrifice by someone who dearly loves us.

      If you are not a Christian, then Romans 2:14,15 basically says ‘Those not of the faith will be judged by their hearts and conscience, because it is not hearing the rules that makes you saved’

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• bravesirrbn@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and savior, Gaysus Bi-st?”

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  • dutchkimble@lemy.lol ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Gaysus fucking Bi-st that’s a good one!

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• cosmicrookie@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If you try really hard and really want it, you too can be 6’,5"

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• SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Only the big evangelist types which isn’t all Christians. I know plenty of Christians who are quiet about it and only talk about it if you bring it up, unlike people really into politics.

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  • redfox@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’d have to agree with you regarding not over generalizing Christians, but I understand why people tend to.

    Remember cake lady from Indiana? She was a bigot. It pissed me off when she tried to use the excuse of ‘religious beliefs’. Since she specifically claimed Christianity, I call total BS on the grounds that Jesus NEVER treated anyone like shit (aside from the other religious people, which following that thought, means she would have gotten called out). Jesus always gave people grace, and then offered advise (specific to Christianity). I would so much rather people be honest and say they don’t like ____, instead of some BS hiding behind their own distorted version of faith. I don’t have to agree with their opinion, just don’t lie about it.

    Also, I’ve never had any person who’s gay try to ‘convert’ me, ever. You could get a bunch of comedy bits out of that one though. I have had mormons and jo’s witnesses come by. They were nice, but if I wanted to waste a bunch of time talking, I would definitely ask them to explain views on dancing, sexuality, etc.

    The only pro gay conversion I’ve ever been exposed to was movies/TV shows advocating for it being a ‘normal’ thing. I suppose that’s because in the US, it’s still considered ‘weird’ or wrong, and writers are trying to back it for what I imagine are civil rights reasons.

    I’m not sure why it’s so hard to stop caring about stuff that doesn’t matter (to me). I have never cared about a person’s orientation.

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• crackajack@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I agree overall with your points, but there is just one caveat: your points are spoken from American and Christian perspective, and there is homophobia in some cultures that are not Christian-based. Majority Chinese, for example, describes themselves as atheists, but they are by and large homophobic. I might be wrong, but I heard CCP is cracking down on fashion, aesthetics and male celebs that might be “too feminine”.

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  • Zink@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I suspect that our home grown American and Christian homophobia is not Christian-based at all. People don’t like the thing that is different or icky, and instead of being introspective about why that is or if it’s the right thing to do, they see that the Bible or their preacher agree. Then it’s time to turn off the thought process and just go with it.

    It’s just a happy little evil coincidence. Typical biblical cherry picking being spoon fed to the base. Funny how little discussion they have about how the Bible has instructions for abortions and how to treat your slaves.

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Christian homophobia is not Christian-based at all. People don’t like the thing that is different

      It’s just a happy little evil coincidence.

      It’s not. It’s an inherent quality in Abrahamic monotheistic religions.

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_monotheism#V…

      The intolerance of narrow monotheism is written in letters of blood across the history of man from the time when first the tribes of Israel burst into the land of Canaan. The worshippers of the one jealous God are egged on to aggressive wars against people of alien [beliefs and cultures]. They invoke divine sanction for the cruelties inflicted on the conquered. The spirit of old Israel is inherited by Christianity and Islam, and it might not be unreasonable to suggest that it would have been better for Western civilization if Greece had moulded it on this question rather than Palestine.

      — Sarvepalli Radhakrishnan

      Christianity is inherently intolerant (see the 10 commandments).

      en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

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• Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s a big strawman

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  • stembolts@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Idk. Fallacy and logic checks makes sense in the context of debate. The context of this post is not a debate (I personally see it more like a showerthought).

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  • Kase@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It is just a theory, but I do think it’s a pretty good one. I don’t know if there’s any way to prove it.

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    • FractalsInfinite@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Probably listen to there speeches and surmons that are posted online then figure it out. Another theory is it could be a highly selective interpretation of the Jewish old testiment law to provide “evidence” that Satan and his servants walk along them and are a threat to everything they stand for

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  • redfox@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That’s a big strawman

    Off topic: I like to put Lemmy posts or comments into the LLMs and see what it comes back with.

    The two examples Gemini provided for straw man where around the topics of gun control, and renewable energy.

    It’s like there’s a ton of terrible arguments around the internet for these two topics /s There are.

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• sj_zero ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The mental model you guys are working off of is completely wrong.

  Not much direct research has been done, but the impression I get is that a surprising amount of the post-2016 right aren't lifelong Christians (or even Christians at all even now, belonging to factions such as libertarianism which isn't tied to religion at all), and aren't even lifelong conservatives. A lot of them vocally supported Obama in 2008 if they're that old. the support for gay marriage among Republicans has approached 50%, which is a massive increase over the previous support near 20%. Moreover, you may be surprised to find that not everyone who is concerned about what's going on is a conservative or a republican either. Protecting children from people who hope to cause them harm is a universal human value, and likely is derived from instincts far before that.

  It's really important to understand the recent history of conservatism, because it's a rapidly changing landscape. On one hand, you have traditional liberals who are now considered conservative for not rushing headlong enough into the latest thing, and on the other hand you have openly far right factions and they aren't hiding their open contempt for other factions for not being extreme enough, and they aren't hiding their opinions on things like women, black people, and jews. In that respect, I see a lot of people working off a playbook that's out of date and coming to wildly wrong conclusions on a wide variety of topics from that false model. After the Republicans got crushed in 2008 they had to go back to the chalkboard and find new strategies that would work in a new world. People made fun of some of the attempts such as the tea party, but that resulted in a lot of new ideas and new blood coming into the party. Many other conservative parties around the world needed to do the same thing because they faced similar defeats. As a result, around the world parties that were considered completely outside the overton window for being conservative are gaining ground. AFD in Germany, Fratelli d'Italia in Italy, and even the far right populist PPC got more votes than the green party in Canada in the recent election, and in the next election the Conservatives are on track to win a massive majority. This isn't happening because they're telling the same stories they were 15 years ago, it's happening because they're finding new stories to tell while their left-wing opponents are just quadrupling down on the stories they told 15 years ago that don't represent a reality in 2024. Conservatism isn't just Christianity therefore, it's a much flatter, much wider thing including a lot of the cultural consensus from 15 years ago and a lot of stuff that would be considered literally unspeakable 15 years ago.

  If you want to blame someone for making people think they're trying to make kids gay or trans, you should probably blame all the idiots who were recorded saying they wanted to make kids gay or trans. You should blame people who use the phrase "not so secret gay agenda" positively in describing what they're doing in their work on kids shows. You should blame the people who put out musical numbers singing "We'll convert your children!". As well, you should blame the people who have decided that starting to transition children in schools while explicitly keeping it secret from parents is a hill they want to die on. In some of the cases I'm referring to they claim to be just joking, but it is the contemporary left that drew the line in the sand that if you joke about anything you're advocating for the most extreme thing you can imagine with respect to that thing. If you care deeply about your kids, and someone is "joking" about doing something you find unspeakable to your kids, why take a chance and why not just believe them?

  In the 1970s and 1980s, there was something called the "Satanic Panic". The police questioned kids about certain things and eventually they got stories from these kids that led to the arrest of dozens of people. The problem at that time is it was all false. One kid claimed the cultists killed and ate and forced him to eat his friend (who was very much alive). Police scoured airports looking for airplanes that could land secretly in a residential neighborhood, fly a child to mexico to be molested, then returned to the same neighborhood in the same day. Another kid spoke of a complex series of tunnels under a town that the cultists used for their satanic rituals, and when it was checked there were no tunnels. In the end, it turned out that all the people accused ended up being innocent, and what we learned from that is that we need to be very careful when trying to figure stuff out from kids because they want to tell us things we want to hear. Today there's a completely different method of questioning children in criminal cases exactly because we know kids are impressionable and we need to be careful about finding the truth and not just the answers that are convenient to us. In the same way, to be responsible we need to be extremely careful about giving kids drugs or surgery that permanently modify the path of their bodies solely because they tell us they are something.

  Compare the way "trans kids" are being treated by politicans and the media, and even if you assume good faith and that it isn't intentional, it's impossible to see the behavior as anything but manipulative and dangerous from a completely secular viewpoint. Telling kids that if they assume a certain characteristics that they're so loved and so wanted and so supported and they're being mistreated by everyone around them that just doesn't know how special they are and giving the same message all the time -- of course a bunch of kids will go "oh, well if that's what the important adults want me to be then that's what I'll be".

  Now, one important piece of the puzzle with respect to "trans kids" is that someone who questions their sexuality isn't going to ask anyone to surgically alter their bodies, which would be why that piece of the puzzle is particularly contentious.

  Different studies of kids trans kids showed that between 60 and over 90% of kids who expressed confusion about their gender identity ended up the gender identity of their birth after 18 without treatment. If nothing else, that should raise serious questions about whether treatment of any kind before the age of 18 is ethical, considering you could potentially end up causing needless harm to 9 kids for every 1 kid you help. There is certainly a lot of research disputing these findings, and in fact the number of articles saying "nuh uh" absolutely dwarfs the actual claims, but as a politically charged issue there's an obvious concern about politically induced bias here, which makes me want to believe the older studies from before this was such a front and center topic. You can disagree, but I'm sure my skepticism of "new study shows everything political movement claims is true" is not so unreasonable. If I'm not going to believe creationists when they spit out a flood of studies 'proving' the world is only 8000 years old, why would I believe trans youth ideologues when they spit out a flood of studies seemingly solely in response to being challenged politically?

  There has been an explosion in the number of kids identifying as trans. Now, it could be that we're just living in the gayest, transest time in the history of the world, but when we're dealing with numbers increasing by many orders of magnitude, it's equally possible that there's an element of social contaigen. Some people might claim that social contaigen is absurd and wouldn't cause people to do something as extreme as this. The thing is, it is uncontroversial that there is an element of social contaigen in cutting, anorexia and suicide which are both purely harmful, and recreational drug use which can be quite harmful.

  Given the basis of the Hippocratic oath, medicine should be politically Conservative but practically conservative and be very careful about implementing new treatments, particularly on a very large scale, particularly when the effects of those treatments are so overwhelmingly dire. Fundamentally modifying and fundamentally damaging sex organs and primary and secondary sexual characteristics is something we have to be very careful about doing and nobody should be jumping for joy at the idea that it's something that we have to do, in the same way that no one should be jumping for joy at the idea that they should need an organ transplant.

  Another important thing to remember is that there is a solid history in the 20th century of medical ideologies or technologies that become wildly popular and end up proving to be somewhat evil. Tommy Douglas, the founder of Canadian healthcare, was a vocal proponent of eugenics. The prefrontal lobotomy eventually ended up coming to be considered an example of barbarism but when it was first invented was considered a miracle cure. Prior to the 20th century, cocaine was considered so fantastic that Sigmund Freud himself wrote a book called on cocaine which was about how much he thought cocaine was a beneficial drug. All of these are cautionary tales about simply accepting the current orthodoxy on a current medical treatment.

  You'll note that none of these are religious arguments. You don't need to believe in any God to look at the above. You can be a hard atheist and look at the facts above and be concerned because you don't want people hurting your kids for their political ideology. If you think that it's solely due to christianity that someone would look at the above and be concerned then you're fundamentally misunderstanding people around you.

  Now to give everything a broad view, just because something ends up being bad in the way that it's implemented doesn't necessarily mean that it is entirely bad. Eugenics taken to it it's extremes horrible and immoral, but some individuals with major genetic diseases choose independently not to have kids because of the risks involved. Prefrontal lobotomies as a carry-all for anything that could heal you is obviously absolutely horrific and terrible, but it is still very occasionally used for very specific situations. I believe that even cocaine has legitimate medical applications, and if it doesn't then certainly it's cousin opiates or something that are quite dangerous and should not be thrown around thoughtlessly but have incredible levels of therapeutic benefit. I would even go so far as to say that there may be situations where very early intervention in transgender cases could be tremendously beneficial, but I think that the data is clearly showing you have to be very careful and being a political topic the way it is I don't think it's being treated very carefully.

  [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/fact-sheet/changing-attitudes-on-gay-marriage/

  [2] https://ballotpedia.org/Pivot_Counties:_The_counties_that_voted_Obama-Obama-Trump_from_2008-2016

  [3] https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/other/des-moines-public-schools-teacher-targeted-after-joking-of-forcing-students-to-be-gay/ar-AA1jU8Nt

  [4] https://boundingintocomics.com/2022/03/30/disney-executives-admit-they-are-pushing-not-at-all-secret-gay-agenda-actively-removing-gendered-greetings-and-a-whole-lot-more/

  [5] https://www.tmz.com/2021/07/09/san-francisco-gay-mens-chorus-convert-your-children-controversial-song-backlash-death-threats/

  [6] https://www.nytimes.com/2023/01/22/us/gender-identity-students-parents.html

  [7] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satanic_panic

  [8] https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/31/us/satanic-panic.html

  [9] https://www.snopes.com/news/2017/06/23/satanic-panic/

  [10] https://twitter.com/theJagmeetSingh/status/1753190259343708432

  [11] https://www.reuters.com/world/us/you-are-loved-white-house-press-secretary-tells-lgbtq-youth-2023-04-06/

  [12] http://www.sexologytoday.org/2016/01/do-trans-kids-stay-trans-when-they-grow_99.html

  [13] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21216800/

  [14] https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/958742?form=fpf

  [15] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK207262/

  [16] https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0004867413502092

  [17] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23387399/

  [18] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3926100/

  [19] https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/article/hippocratic-oath-today/

  [20] https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/tommy-douglas-and-eugenics

  [21] https://www.bbc.com/news/stories-55854145

  [22] https://www.vice.com/en/article/payngv/how-cocaine-influenced-the-work-of-sigmund-freud
• HelixDab2@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I would propose that some Christians think that gays are trying to convert them because they feel attracted to people of the same gender. If you have no sexual attraction to people of the same sex, then the idea that you could ever be converted to being gay is going to seem ridiculous. I’m straight; I’m simply uninterested in being people with male bodies or male genitalia. On the other hand, if I was bisexual–or simply gay–and believed that homosexuality was sinful, then I might feel like depictions of homosexual people in media was an attempt to change who I “am”.

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• krondo@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I mean there is a benefit to convert someone to your sexuality (you fugg’em) but the very sentence I wrought there sounds insane and outlandish I don’t understand how you would go about that.

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