Tesla Robotaxis Are Crashing More Than 12 Times as Frequently as Human Drivers

Comments

• JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Remember when the argument for self driving cars was that they don’t need to be perfect, just better than humans?

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• Someone8765210932@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  If only there was an entity that could make rules about who and what can be driven on public roads.

  I know it sounds impossible, but what if this entity could have stepped in before companies tread public roads and other drivers as beta testers for their half finished commercial products? They could have forced companies to either make this stuff work, or keep it off the roads.

  Real talk for a moment: The world, but especially the USA has been on fire over the last decade. Sometimes I wonder how different the introduction of certain technologies could have been if everyone wasn’t distracted by all the craziness and governments had actually done their job. I’m not just talking about self-driving or AI, as another example, but also crypto and social media in general. Would things be much different, if this stuff appeared during “boring times”?

  Sorry, I’m just rambling here …

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• Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  There was a news story two weeks ago about Waymo taxis in Texas driving through 20 bus stops over a few days.

  The only response was, “company officials treat this very seriously and are working on a fix.”

  It’s bizarre how if you drove through twenty bus stops in three days, you would not only lose your license but be in jail on multiple charges.

  But if a corporation does it it is, “Oops, we will do better next time.”

  Utterly insane.

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  • Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    They wrote the legislation that allowed themselves to operate self driving vehicles. Every one of these vehicles is a symbol of the oligarchy at work.

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  • Suburbanl3g3nd@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Sounds like they Sovereign Citizens could. They just have the wrong paperwork

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    • anomnom@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Takes roughly a billion $1 pieces of paper.

      Then send a ridiculously small number of those to your state representatives.

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  • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    It’s bizarre how if you drove through twenty bus stops in three days, you would not only lose your license but be in jail on multiple charges.

    This is a relatively unique Texas law that requires cars to stop when school buses are loading or unloading passengers, including on the opposite side of the road going the other direction. The self driving companies didn’t program for that special use case, so it actually is a relatively easy fix in software.

    And the human drivers who move to Texas often get tripped up by this law, because many aren’t aware of the requirement.

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    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It isn’t a unique Texas Law. It’s law everywhere in the US and Canada.

      “mostly all in North America, require all surrounding vehicles to stop when a school bus is stopped with its red lights flashing.”

      en.wikipedia.org/…/School_bus_traffic_stop_laws

      “And the human drivers who move to Texas often get tripped up by this law, because many aren’t aware of the requirement.”

      Only if you are from a different country.

      Which is beside the point that if anyone else drove through 20 bus stops, they couldn’t use the excuse, “I’m from another country so I don’t know your laws.” to get out of jail.

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    • athatet@lemmy.zip ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      It’s not just Texas. It’s a requirement to stop for a school bus with its flashing lights on and stop sign out pretty much everywhere in the US.

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Oh! Driving past stopped school busses you mean. Had to look up “driving through bus stops”. :)

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• Jaysyn@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Pretty sure that would make them as bad as or worse than drunk drivers.

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• frunch@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  I found this part to be even more alarming:

  All of the Robotaxi crashes so far have occurred with human safety monitors—who have been trained to take control of the car in the event of a software error—present in the vehicles.

  This is significant because, as TechCrunch reported on Monday, Tesla is starting to send out its Robotaxi fleet without safety monitors.

  So despite a pitiful record with people trying to correct the cars mistakes, they’re now ready to move on to running them without assistance?!? I am furious at the idea that our safety on the roads is this negotiable.

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  • Soup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    It’s insane how shit the US is at managing its cars considering how aggressively they’ve forced them as the only truly viable mode of transport. It sucks horribly to drive in North America but it’s the only option given to people. Like, if you’re gunna do the worst option at least do it right and have some pride in the system.

    The US doesn’t give a fuck about its people.

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    • teft@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Regulatory capture is a hell of a drug.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      The US has absolutely mad road to traffic laws. Zero concept of lane discipline, you driving whatever lane you feel like. Don’t understand roundabouts even though it’s just a curved road, it’s really not that hard. Still don’t have standardised pedestrian crossings even when other countries had them back in the 1920s. A red traffic light only means stop sometimes, but sometimes you can go if you’re turning right. No one obeys the speed limit, people regularly exceed it, and see no problem with that. And of course no one has separate indicator lights and brake lights because when would you ever slow down and go around a corner, definitely no need to engineer for that eventuality.

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    • Cybersteel@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Feel like some sort of trap. Being able to drive anywhere feels like it gives you so much freedom, the ability to go anywhere but the reality is there so much opportunity cost and financial cost to live in a car dominated society, even all the small things like convenience and safety all adds up.

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  • JasonDJ@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Proof of concept fails in a spectacular fireball?

    Fuck it, owners are too invested, ship it anyway.

    Feels like I work for the same company.

    Why repair the plane on the ground…if it’s a real problem, we can fix it mid-flight.

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  • Burninator05@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Not trying to defend Tesla on this because fuck Musk and everything he touches but are there stats on how, when, and why the human took over? Did they just not take over? Did they take over to late? Did they take over and make the situation worse?

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    • frunch@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      You raise an excellent point, one which i was hoping to find out more about as well. It turns out Tesla has been working hard to keep pretty much any pertinent information to answer your questions firmly under lock and key.

      From this Electrek article electrek.co/…/tesla-robotaxi-had-3-more-crashes-n…

      Unlike other companies reporting to NHTSA, Tesla abuses the right to redact data reported through the system. The automaker redacts the “narrative” for each reported crash, preventing the public from knowing how the crashes happened and who is responsible.

      Based on the limited information in Tesla’s reports, we know that one of the new crashes involved a Robotaxi driving into a car backing up, another involved a cyclist, and the last one involved an unknown animal.

      So he’s basically fudging the numbers and anytime he’s questioned he points at the fudged numbers and says everything’s great, he’s great, now get out of the way while he deploys a fleet of these un-manned deathtraps to “half the US population” according to a properly ultra-super-inflated kind of claim only a douchebag like Leon can make. No, seriously–he actually claimed that by the end of 2025 he’ll have these things serving half the population of the US.

      electrek.co/…/elon-musk-with-straight-face-tesla-…

      🫠

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• jjjalljs@ttrpg.network ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Self driving cars have always been a stupid solution to the wrong problem.

  We shouldn’t be investing billions in them. We should be investing billions in creating livable spaces that don’t need cars so much. Then people will be happier and there will be less pollution.

  But I guess that’s not profitable so I guess we’ll just do idiotic garbage that gets people killed.

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  • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    We should be investing billions in creating livable spaces that don’t need cars so much. Then people will be happier and there will be less pollution.

    when someone figures out how to make the better options more profitable than the bad options we’ll finally see progress.

    until then we’re fucked

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  • MimicJar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    I mean the US is heavily car centric. Self driving cars are an attempt to adapt to what the reality of the world currently is.

    We should absolutely be doing things to make cars less of a requirement by improving public transit and creating more livable spaces that don’t require cars, that can even be the primary goal, but it won’t eliminate cars completely, and if it does it will take A LOT longer than self driving cars.

    Self driving cars are a great idea, but they aren’t a fix everything solution, they just one part of an overall solution.

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    • jjjalljs@ttrpg.network ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Self driving cars are a great idea, but they aren’t a fix everything solution, they just one part of an overall solution.

      Why are they a great idea? What are they making better? How is it worth the real and opportunity costs?

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• Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Wow, good thing the owner didn’t fire a load of people in the government department who could prevent this.

  theverge.com/…/nhtsa-staffers-office-vehicle-auto…

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  • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    He fired them because he knew his system sucked, and would never be roadworthy, and that was the department that would stop him. So he fired them, and here we are.

    I’m actually looking forward to a lot of good crashes, that they’ll explain away as Sleepy Joe’s fault, or it’s not that bad that a school bus full of children blew up on a fire crash with a Tesla, it happens all the time, or perhaps they’ll just deny it, and MAGA will cover it up. Let them kill a whole bunch of American citizens, and then be all dismissive of any criticism.

    This is the year to let MAGA fully flower, and do their worst. The Dems should just stay out of the way, and do nothing to stop them from themselves, and work the media to point out every disaster. I can’t wait for the Midterms.

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    • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      He fired them because he was under 17 active NTHSA investigations.

      Whatever, poeple who buy Teslas or get into a Tesla cab or buy TSLA deserve everything coming to them.

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• Adderbox76@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Did Robotaxi just flat out steal the Cyberpunk font in order to try to look cool? It seems like a very Musk thing to do.

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  • brucethemoose@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    All the billionares watched a few too many Cyberpunk 20777 YouTube videos.

    Why do you think they’re so specifically interested in space datacenters? And AR glasses?

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  • Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    He is such a dork

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    • Akasazh@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      No he’s not in the nerdy spectrum, he tried very hard to be cool with nerds, after they made him lotsa money.

      But he’s just an awful person. Dork is too cool for him. He’s such a total loser

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    • zephiriz@lemmy.ml ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Elon is a poser. He wants to be a cool nerd but is just a dumb c***, try hard.

      youtu.be/qpXu9ft9h4M

      youtu.be/z1ykCc588Zw

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  • lechekaflan@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    He’s called Phony Stark for a reason.

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• Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I will never take any auto autonomous Tesla. Waymo maybe, but always a taxi or Uber and better yet a bus or train.

  I can’t remember how many safety features Tesla has foregone in the name of profit, but my perception of them is that they’re death machines for both riders and pedestrians. No thank you

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• dumbass@piefed.social ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Human: pffft hold my beer… Wait no, I’ll keep it.

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• bold_atlas@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Feeling a bit smug since I was early adopter of calling “self-driving” cars a grift. Remember when it was just a fact that cars were all going to be self-driving by now?

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  • ozymandias117@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago

    I’m sure all the Tesla apologist that kept saying “it only has to be safer than a human” whenever we pointed out how poorly the Tesla self-driving system works will change their tune now.

    … Right?

    Some of the lidar based systems might work, but Musk’s “humans only have eyes, so we only need cameras” is unlikely to ever work

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  • Zetta@mander.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Waymo self driving cars are very good imo, I live near a location where they operate and drive along side them daily on my way to work and have ridden in one twice. They are way better than human drives in my area.

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  • resipsaloquitur@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Six months from now. Just as true today as it was ten years ago.

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  • Cybersteel@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    My campus has a self driving mini bus service though there’s a real driver in the driver’s seat jic.

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    • jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Funny part was that tesla taxis also had a human attendant, but for the sake of appearance made them sit on the passenger side. They deliberately limited staff from being able to interact with steering and pedals.

      They eventually moved those to the driver seat.

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    • ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      So was it worth it, if you still have to employ a mini-bus driver…?

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  • PangurBan@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I’ve never heard that. Like, anywhere. Lol

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    • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      musk:

      2016 “We should be able to do 90 percent of miles driven [autonomously] within three years.”

      2015 “A Tesla car next year will probably be 90-percent capable of autopilot. Like, so 90 percent of your miles can be on auto. For sure highway travel.”

      2018 “From a technology standpoint, Tesla will have a car that can do full autonomy in about three years, maybe a bit sooner.”

      2018 “We’re going to end up with complete autonomy, and I think we will have complete autonomy in approximately two years.”

      2019 “I consider autonomous driving to be a basically solved problem. … We’re less than two years away from complete autonomy. Regulators however will take at least another year; they’ll want to see billions of miles of data.”

      you apparently haven’t paid attention to the grifter in chief

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Yeah me neither. I’ve heard claims that automation will take away jobs from drivers in the future, but not anyone actually saying “it’s undeniable that by 2025 most cars will be driving entirely by themselves”. And I remember when GPS was a spy-gadget daydream you imagined having when using maps. (Actual, physical maps. Not Google/Apple Maps.)

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• TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  If driverless taxis ever go mainstream (and that’s a big if), it will be from companies like Waymo, not Tesla. Tesla shouldn’t be seen as a serious company. I mean, they do sell legitimate products, but their $1.6 trillion market cap isn’t based on what they sell today, but what their cult member investors think they’re going to bring to market in the future. You know, all the stuff that will usher in the post-human, techno utopia. It’s all nonsense, and someday it will all come crashing down, though that could take a while. People can stay delusional for a long time.

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  • makeshiftreaper@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Elon’s stupid ass dedication to using cameras and image processing for self driving will ultimately be what leaves Tesla in the dust. A combination of LIDAR, cameras, and other detection tools are way safer than just cameras alone. I’m not a huge Mark Rober fan but he did show that you can beat Tesla’s self driving with Looney Tunes techniques

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    • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      It doesn’t rain or snow or get dark in Leon’s head.

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  • atrielienz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    And yet WAYMO taxis have been driving through bus stops like it’s going out of style. They aren’t necessarily better.

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    • GamingChairModel@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      Waymos were violating a Texas state law that requires cars to stop when a school bus stops, even in 2+ lane roads separated by a paved median, even for traffic going in the opposite direction:

      liggettlawgroup.com/…/School-bus-laws-img-1024x65…

      The requirements for opposite side traffic in multi-lane roads is pretty rare and might be unique to Texas. And yes, human drivers fuck this up all the time, too, leading to a lot of PSAs in Texas, especially for new residents.

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    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Yeah, but I trust Waymo will get their shit together long before that psycho will, if ever.

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  • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    Tesla is already broke, the magic bubble has popped, and they are on a steady slide to bankruptcy. They will NEVER recover their mojo. The institutional investors will keep them alive for a while, but they are already Wile E. Coyote, hanging in mid-air, and hasn’t realized there’s nothing under their feet yet.

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    i was thinking TESLA is really late to the game, when google’s waymo already does it for a few years now, its still limited where it drives, but teslas already lost that race.

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• communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  This is based on a nample thze of 8

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  • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    That’s not how you measure sample size but ok

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    • communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      it’s correct that 8 is not the sample size, but they didn’t give the sample size, it would be how many cars there are and the number of miles, not just the number of miles, they also didn’t establish fault and this was with a human in the loop, i’m all for hating elon but this isn’t worth reporting without more info.

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  • LittleBorat3@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    Do they have different personalities, are the tolerances so great unit to unit? What do you even mean?

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    • communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      I mean 8 crashes is not a lot to work with statistically to the point where this is nearly meaningless.

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  • cley_faye@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    One would expect such a small sample size to lower the crash rates. But tesla is subverting expectations yet again.

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    • jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      A small sample size would just make the prediction highly uncertain, could be way better or way worse.

      However others have made the observation that it’s reasonable to consider the miles driven as the sample size, and at over 300,000 miles, it is a bit more credible sounding.

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    • communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

      no you wouldn’t, it would just make it less accurate

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• scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  This is pretty much the only metric that matters. There is absolutely plenty of room to improve on human drivers! One crash per 500k miles sounds extremely low to me. But if the cars are not better than humans, they should not be on the road.

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• CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  „But that‘s as bad as it will ever be!“ I hear tech bros reciting their mantra but then it gets worse all the time somehow.

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  • ByteJunk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    “And that’s when enshitification kicked in”

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    • Senseless@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      To apply the breaks what the five ads or join our premium service subscription.

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  • SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    They will integrate it with GROK. Fur der Fatherland! as it drives off an overpass.

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• Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  You could not pay me to get inside of any Tesla product. Crappy quality, crappy design, crappy materials, crappy everything. Just another PE for guys with itty bitty weenies.

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  • boonhet@sopuli.xyz ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    I rented one once for an hour, that was all the Tesla experience I needed tbh.

    Wasn’t a P100D or anything, just a Y Long Range, but I no longer have any curiosity about it. Interior was bland af, ride quality was barely any better than a cheapo Hyundai… The only good things are the giant tablet not being slow as hell, and the powertrain being fun.

    You get a lot more with European cars if you’re willing to pay Tesla level prices. Or you can get a completely OK car from Korea or Japan and pay less (as long as it isn’t a Lexus, those are expensive).

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• LittleBorat3@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  They still drive better than Elon who is in a k hole right now 👍

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• LoafedBurrito@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  I hate this timeline. We are forced to drive next to these death machines and the corporations that own them take zero accountability and just bribe the president for more welfare and to not ever investigate them.

  Our whole country is bought and paid for by evil billionaires who dont care if we live or die.

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  • Cybersteel@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    2nd amendment is there for a reason.

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  • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

    We are forced to drive next to these death machines and the corporations that own them take zero accountability and just bribe the president for more welfare and to not ever investigate them.

    Who could’ve seen this coming?

    youtube.com/playlist?list=PL_UfRwTwaJXLurJ0TLf16F…

    Image

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• cheesybuddha@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  Some things are just super obvious that even if we can, we should not

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• DylanMc6@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  i prefer human taxis

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• sturmblast@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  If you like to watch your money burn, invest in Tesla.

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  • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    and if YOU want to burn, get in a Tesla

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    • return2ozma@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

      Image

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• yogurtwrong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  That would happen a lot less if they just used the LiDAR + camera combo like a sane person

  But who am I to judge? el*n certainly knows better riiiiigghhht?

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• mycodesucks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  But at a FRACTION of the cost!

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• tym@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  AI = anonymous indians (with video game controllers)

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• FelixCress@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Perhaps their AI was modelled on their CEO?

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• motruck@lemmy.zip ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  So go find one and keep riding it until you hit the accident payday?

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• Flisty@mstdn.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  @return2ozma so they crash 12* more than human drivers, even though they currently *have* human drivers?! The AI makes human drivers 12* worse. Cool.

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• some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  We’ve never been safer! /s

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• lechekaflan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  Leave the World Behind was quite a documentary.

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• Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

  its most likely a regular tesla with all the sensors stripped out, and the software dumbed down.

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