There needs to be more discussion around separating the country of Israel from its dominate religion. So when people refer to the systematic murder organised by the country, it’s understood that it doesn’t make any reference to the Jewish people.
In 6 hours it will be illegal to say "I support Palestine Action" in the UK, with a sentence of up to 14 years in prison.
Submitted 23 hours ago by als@lemmy.blahaj.zone to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
Comments
catty@lemmy.world 20 minutes ago
tane@lemmy.zip 1 hour ago
Every British politician belongs in a mass grave. Just a total stain on humanity
catty@lemmy.world 23 minutes ago
Is this really to appease Trump (maybe as part of the 10% tariffs)?
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
There are few things I like about being an American, but one of them is the first amendment. It doesn’t always work, and Trump is sure to try some shit like this soon, but at least I know for now I won’t go to prison for saying that I do indeed support Palestine Action
Nalivai@discuss.tchncs.de 1 hour ago
You could absolutely go to prison for it. A group of people in an unmarked van can grab you, send you to a prison in your country or even somewhere else, where you will be tortured possibly to death, and even if there will be an international fuss about it, nobody will ever do anything about it.
There is no more laws in your country, none.starman2112@sh.itjust.works 54 minutes ago
I could, because our rights are not bulletproof. That said, it’s not a given that I will go to jail for being against genocide
Clbull@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
I’m more shocked it hasn’t already happened to Extinction Rebellion, Insulate Britain or Just Stop Oil.
But I guess blockading motorways and rocking up to art museums dressed like extras from a Wham music video and defacing paintings makes you less of a threat than wanting Netanyahu to stop his genocide of the Palestinian people.
laserm@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Still, calling blocking motorways and defacing painting terrorism is a stretch.
Clbull@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
And that’s pretty much what Action Palestine did.
echodot@feddit.uk 8 hours ago
Just to be clear because everybody seems to be missing this point.
Palestinian Action, is an organisation. Membership of that group is banned, it is not illegal to support Palestinians or to call out Israel’s genocide. The government doesn’t like it when you do, but it’s not actually illegal for you to do it.
This organisation broke into a UK air force base in order to protest. They are not being charged because they protested, they’re being charged for breaking in and damaging a lot of military equipment. I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists, but you can sort of see the government’s point, if you squint.
The UK government does however absolutely deserve to get it in the neck for their support of Israel. Labour have had a pretty awkward relationship with Israel in particular and anti-Semitism in general for a long time, and they’re now keen to be seen as supporters, but there are limits.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 1 hour ago
They are not being charged because they protested, they’re being charged for breaking in and damaging a lot of military equipment. I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists, but you can sort of see the government’s point, if you squint.
Out of curiosity, I looked up the US Federal definition of terrorism
definition
> 5. the term “domestic terrorism” means activities that- > 1. involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State; > 2. appear to be intended- > 1. to intimidate or coerce a civilian population; > 2. to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or > 3. to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and > 3. occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States
The element danger to human life is missing, so it wouldn’t fit their definition.
However, the UK legal definition
definition
> 1. In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where— > 1. the action falls within subsection (2), > 1. the use or threat is designed to influence the government [or an international governmental organisation][^F1] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and > 1. the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [, racial][^F2] or ideological cause. > 1. Action falls within this subsection if it— > 1. involves serious violence against a person, > 1. involves serious damage to property, > 1. endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action, > 1. creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or > 1. is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system. > 1. The use or threat of action falling within subsection (2) which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism whether or not subsection (1)(2) is satisfied. > 1. In this section— > 1. “action” includes action outside the United Kingdom, > 1. a reference to any person or to property is a reference to any person, or to property, wherever situated, > 1. a reference to the public includes a reference to the public of a country other than the United Kingdom, and > 1. “the government” means the government of the United Kingdom, of a Part of the United Kingdom or of a country other than the United Kingdom. > 1. In this Act a reference to action taken for the purposes of terrorism includes a reference to action taken for the benefit of a proscribed organisation.
is wild: no danger to human life required, merely serious damage to property suffices!
[^F1]: Words in s. 1(1)(2) inserted (13.4.2006) by Terrorism Act 2006 (c. 11), s. 34; S.I. 2006/1013, art. 2 [^F2]: Words in s. 1(1)(3) inserted (16.2.2009) by Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 (c. 28), ss. 75(1)(2)(a), 100(5) (with s. 101(2)); S.I. 2009/58, art. 2(a)
catty@lemmy.world 17 minutes ago
In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—
the action falls within subsection (2), the use or threat is designed to influence the government [or an international governmental organisation][1] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public
Wow, so the very act of peaceful protest is now defined as ‘terrorism’?
AlteredEgo@lemmy.ml 4 hours ago
I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists,
Did you mean “a bit unfair”? Because I don’t see how anybody would be terrorized by this. It’s clearly illegal but using terrorism here is very problematic, especially since what the military does to people in the middle easy is actual terrorism but not called that.
Afaik the “anti-Semitism in Labour” was basically a made up smear by the Labour Party themselves to prevent Jeremy Corbyn getting elected.
endeavor@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
Theyre terrorists since its an organisation backed by FSB, an intelligence arm of a terrorist country.
JustTheWind@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Thank you for this clarification. This is an extremely important context. “Palestine Action” is the particular name of a very specific organization, so the title of the article is obviously a bit misleading.
Still very worrying and more than a bit concerning, though. Here’s to hoping for a future strengthening of UK speech laws. Though, frankly, I’m not so sure about US speech laws anymore. Cheers.
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
Yes and I support that particular organization and the actions they perform. From what it sounds like reading the article, this very comment makes me a criminal in the UK
God bless the first amendment 🦅🇺🇲
courval@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
What anti-Semitism where they accused of?
echodot@feddit.uk 6 hours ago
I don’t think it was ever anything concrete. Some members of the Labour Party made some comments that could potentially have been interpreted as being anti-semitic. Everyone went absolutely crazy, without anything in the way of evidence, and it caused a major political scandal. Labour themselves made the whole situation infinitely worse by not properly investigating the allegations, which made it look like they were trying to protect people. In reality I think it was just incompetence.
It was the very definition of a storm in a teacup, essentially nothing had happened but the opposition parties reacted as if it was some major scandal for the sole purpose of political point scoring.
Labour subsequently lost the 2019 elections and the suggestion was it was because of this scandal.
So when Starmer became leader one of the things he said he was going to do was root out anti-Semitism within the party (no matter how much he had to dig for it), this was around 2020 but he had been campaigning about it since around 2018. Anyway when he became leader there was a big bust up where he got rid of anyone he thought was being anti-semitic (again there was a lot of doubt about whether or not they were being). Then in 2024 they won the election. So ever since then they’ve been very careful to not appear anti-semitic to the point at which they are refusing to even acknowledge Israel’s war crimes.
This is all especially annoying since they would have won the 2024 general election no matter what because the Conservatives were polling so badly. So this big arguement about anti-Semitism was completely unnecessary. Had it not happened Labour would still be in power, but would be less inclined to shy away from criticism of Israel.
TLDR
Accusing Labour of been anti-semitic has been the default position of the opposition for a while because it works. Who cares about the truth anymore?
skisnow@lemmy.ca 7 hours ago
Yeah, they lost an election over an antisemitism row a few years ago and have chosen the worst possible moment in history to start overcompensating for it.
wpb@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
It should be noted that it was the “please stop murdering children” kind of “antisemitism”, not real antisemitism.
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
They even forbid the playing of “Don’t cry for me Argentina” during the wer to protect their Malvinas colony.
echodot@feddit.uk 6 hours ago
That would have been the Conservatives though. The Conservatives under Thatcher were in power during the Falklands war.
splonglo@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Not only is the ruling wrong - it is the very thing it claims to be opposing. It is itself an act of terrorism, carried out with the intention of inspiring fear in the British public to further a political agenda.
In every way, the British government is replicating the actions it accuses PA of - except that the scale of harm to British society and the terror inspired is magnitudes greater, and performed in service of the opposite political goal.
This is a terror attack by the government against the British people.
The British people’s opinion and will are the thing from which the goverment gains it’s only source of legitimacy - and they do not line up with the government on this issue. But evidently the government believes in a different model of legitimacy: they believe that legitimacy is derived from the mere fact that they hold power. In the mind of the government and it’s supporters, the difference between a terrorist organisation and a legitimate goverment is just power and only power. To them, right and wrong has absolutely nothing to do with it. They think that they are winning, and that they are going to get away with it. Nothing else matters.
Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 hours ago
But evidently the government believes in a different model of legitimacy: they believe that legitimacy is derived from the mere fact that they hold power.
*Macht macht Recht"
Ileftreddit@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Ignorance is strength freedom is slavery war is peace
khaleer@sopuli.xyz 5 hours ago
That’s good reason to remind people, that law is written by particular people, mostly to protect those people interests.
OccamsRazer@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
It started during covid, but nobody cared because the people being locked up were anti vaxxers. It didn’t stop there. It never does.
Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works 37 minutes ago
Give us literally one example of someone being thrown in prison for expressing anti vax views, we’ll all wait.
tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip 1 hour ago
The UK arrested people for being anti vax??
kreskin@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Feeding, housing and guarding someone for 14 years has got to be ridiculously expensive. All for uttering a few words.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 5 hours ago
Do prisoners in the UK do slave labor like in the US?
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
Technically its not slave labor.
They just out you in solitary confinement with really bad food, zero things to do to pass the time. Psychologically torture you until you agreed to do unpaid/below-minimum-wage work.
“They are voluntarily working!” -the warden said to the judge, while concealing a police baton behind him.
jnod4@lemmy.ca 3 hours ago
Not yet
ArchmageAzor@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
I’m tired, boss
sik0fewl@lemmy.ca 23 hours ago
Codifying your genocide support into law. Nice.
wheezy@lemmy.ml 18 hours ago
If there is ever justice for Palestine they trials will be short. These bastards are so proud of their support for genocide.
jimmy90@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
if they promise to only paint things orange on military bases i think that’s ok
we’ll take their word for it
ramenbelly@lemmy.zip 4 hours ago
SHOULD CHANT IT WHILE LOOTING LONDON
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 20 hours ago
The harder they push pro-Israel, the more anti-Israel everyone is going to get.
You can’t bully us into supporting a genocidal regime.
Bebopalouie@lemmy.ca 20 hours ago
My fucking brain is so fried.
Both my parents were in World War II. They fought against fascism. I was brought up to feel for what happened to the Jews during that war. Now all I see is that they seem to be being worse than the actual Nazis.
novibe@lemmy.ml 18 hours ago
Israel =/= the “Jews”.
Israel’s founders were actually very prejudiced against Jews that survived the holocaust. And much more against the ones that didn’t actually…
DogWater@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Do not conflate Jewish people with Israel
That is a very important distinction
timewarp@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
What Israel is doing is very much Nazi like. But saying such will get you banned on Mastodon.social, and probably prosecuted in places like Germany.
Deceptichum@quokk.au 16 hours ago
Yeah, nah.
The only people who win when you conflate Israel with all Jewish people are Zionists and Neo-Nazis.
0x0@lemmy.zip 5 hours ago
I was brought up to feel for what happened to the Jews during that war.
And neglected to mention that it wasn’t just jews but anyone the nazis didn’t like, such as gays, communists, other races, etc.
LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
I have a feeling they can. If all discourse over social media is anti Palestine and no one can refute in I give it 10 years max before it would just be a frothing hate for Palestinians with a significant amount of the population.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 18 hours ago
They are already trying to do this and failing miserably at it. Censorship itself is an admission of guilt and is something that people are really starting to understand. That’s basically the point of my original comment: the harder they try to stop dissent, the more guilty they look.
grue@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
This is why the Fediverse and VPNs/Tor etc. are so important.
ramenbelly@lemmy.zip 4 hours ago
UK , USA , who’s next ???
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
Germany (AfD)
France (RN)
👀
mhague@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Nonviolent direct action has earned them the label “terrorists.”
zarathustra0@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
“The closer the collapse of the Empire, the crazier its laws are.”
Marcus Tullius Cicero
Quik@infosec.pub 19 hours ago
Grrrrr, he very likely didn’t say that.
The closest to it I could find is “The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws” by Tacitus (The Annals of Imperial Rome).
Cicero lived at the end of the republic, his problem wasn’t too many laws…
olafurp@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Cicero was world class complainer after all.
NoForwardslashS@sopuli.xyz 21 hours ago
When the sentence is the same for non-violent protest and for actual terrorism, don’t be surprised if things get more extreme quickly.
nothingcorporate@lemmy.today 22 hours ago
Just more newspeak, like Trump calling everything he posts online “truths” while being nothing but lie after lie.
floo@retrolemmy.com 22 hours ago
The Ministry of Truth -> MiniTrue
Truth Social -> 💩💨
Toneswirly@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
change the name of your org, make them play wack-a-mole.
gedhrel@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
There appears to be something of a rebrand to “Yvette Cooper”.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
They are doing this because Palestine Action has been incredibly effective. They have already forced the closure of two factories in England that produce arms for Israeli defense company Elbit and forced Barclays Bank to divest through sustained sabotage campaigns. No person has been hurt by their actions, yet these actions have cost the genocide supporters millions of pounds and caused months-long disruptions to the production of weapons used in ethnic clean songs around the globe (Elbit weapons are fueling not just the Palestine ethnic cleaning, but Kashmir and DRC, too).
supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz 15 hours ago
Wow protestors these days will stoop to the level of wisely putting pressure on major companies supporting genocide?!?
First property damage and now this??
clutches plastic pearls
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 14 hours ago
Mossad has insane control over the world
Lucky_777@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Looks like the UK is going down the American road here. It’s time for all those UK citizens that said, “Rise up now!” to Americans months ago…time to rise up! Give us a great example!
Oh, you can’t because you have to work for a living? How about that…
endeavor@sopuli.xyz 2 hours ago
Palestine action is the group that broke into army bases on behalf of the FSB.
mriswith@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
There is also legislation that can be used to arrest most protestors. And you can face a multi-year prison sentence if you say something wrong on social media.
The UK is actually further along the dystopian path than the USA in some ways, but as is tradition they are trying to pretend it’s not happening.
Mamdani_Da_Savior@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
During the Korean war a British unit was being overrun by the Chinese. The American general asked the British Colonel how things where and the Colonel said its a bit hairy. While the American general took this to mean they are ok. They got overrun and everyone in the unit was killed or captured.
JimVanDeventer@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
UK has always had that 1984/Brazil (the movie, not the not-movie) vibe; it wasn’t all just pulled out of Orwell’s magic butt.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 11 hours ago
Going down?
csverdad@midwest.social 10 hours ago
The most widely celebrated circumstance in the world is being rid of the British government. It’s spawned many holidays.
echodot@feddit.uk 8 hours ago
It is of course somewhat disingenuous to equate the empire to the modern British government. In much the same way that it makes no sense to say that Japan in its current form has any relation to feudal Japan.
Bloomcole@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Only difference is that they now only have a fraction of their power.
OTOH they 100% have the same horrible attitude.
Like the declining US now doesn’t realise they aren’t top dog anymore, the Brits who have been surpassed by them for a century still delude themselves and think they can and should dictate what the world should do.
Glad we had Brexit.
Always causing trouble and wanting it their way.
Embarrassing.
theacharnian@lemmy.ca 12 hours ago
Labour are class traitors.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 10 hours ago
So said Orwell many, many decades ago and people still vote for theae shitstains. There was some slight chance under Corbin but people want more Tory, so here we are.
Tomato666@lemmy.sdf.org 8 hours ago
Well Corbyn has just started a new party…
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
They can take it to EU court. oops haha. This is why the elites pushed for Brexit. It wasn’t just to repatriate their money from Cayman Islands tax free. It’s so they can suppress anyone that doesn’t bend the knee.
svcg@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 hours ago
The UK is still a party to the European Convention on Human Rights.
0x0@lemmy.zip 5 hours ago
Any major difference to the universal declaration on human rights?
FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 21 hours ago
I support Palestine action
RagingRobot@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I support Palestinian action in the UK
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
checks post, 9h
sets VPN to UK
“I support Palestine Action”
rekabis@lemmy.ca 15 hours ago
So the UK is now officially pro-genocide?
Good to know.
Confidant6198@lemmy.ml 13 hours ago
Capitalism is genocidal. End capitalism!
Sidhean@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Crazy. I thought Palestine Action was oddly capitalized. They’re a fucking group. They’re an organization- I thought they were banning supporting ending a genocide, but they’re shutting down a based and vandal-pilled activist group.
Uh, I’ve never heard of them but fuck it. I support Palestine Action. You can’t just censor people or opinions out of existence. wtf
FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Death Death to the IDF!
MetalMachine@feddit.nl 53 minutes ago
Time to make a new group and to spite them call it “palestine 2 action”
alt_xa_23@lemmy.world 37 minutes ago
2 Palestine 2 Action