It’s sad that this is considered malicious at all. Seriously, either working from home is a risk for your company or it isn’t, there’s nothing in between.
Work from home
Submitted 4 months ago by The_Picard_Maneuver@lemmy.world to maliciouscompliance@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/93175c57-5b5b-48ff-af21-bdc8de77de22.jpeg
Comments
rikudou@lemmings.world 4 months ago
whodatdair@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
Yup, they started to force me to drive to an office where none of the people I work with are, now that’s the only place I do work for them.
Used to think about and work on projects after hours if I found them interesting or realized a solution I hadn’t thought of. They’ve shown me they don’t care about my comfort, so I don’t feel the need to care about their problems either.
They’re so divorced from reality that they think we’d just give up extra hours of our lives for commuting and keep up the same work output. Fuckin nope, going switch to doing the bare minimum it takes to keep you signing checks.
brax@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Yup, my work pulled the same Bullshit. I can work from home and we all worked from home through COVID… But now suddenly I can’t
So, there’s been a few times where the power’s gone out or something has happened that needs us at a remote location. They send the team home. The rest of the guys willingly go. I stay back and remind them that “gee, sorry. You guys have made it abundantly clear that I can’t work from home. All those times I had to take personal time… So yeah, no. I’ll just hang out here I guess until everything comes back up 🤷♂️”
PunnyName@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Fuck yeah!
sukhmel@programming.dev 4 months ago
Makes me think that with the hybrid they expect to have the best of both worlds, while in fact it will likely be the opposite.
Besides, with a mandatory fixed amount of days per quarter it gets soooo bullshit, it’s not hybrid it’s just barely glorified office work
brax@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Especially when the “hybrid” model involves more days in office than at home.
I guess execs don’t work when they’re at home and can’t handle not getting distracted, so they just assume the same for everyone.
damnthefilibuster@lemmy.world 4 months ago
My SO was told to travel to office every day of the week, only to sit in zoom meetings because all of their team is elsewhere.
Reaaaal good use of everyone’s time and our non-renewable resources.
EldritchFeminity@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
Don’t forget that it’s also effectively a pay cut due to the added expenses and time lost in commuting. They should ask if the company is going to at least pay for the maintenance of the car if they aren’t going to pay for the time spent commuting.
snooggums@midwest.social 4 months ago
Also the time spent getting ready for office appearances and prepping lunches (or the cost of buying lunches away from home).
brbposting@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
“Here’s the invoice for the rental!”
ramble81@lemm.ee 4 months ago
You know the answer, so why even ask? Just makes you look foolish. Brush off the resume and start looking. They won’t learn.
BCsven@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Paying for commute time for regular workers is not going to happen, for many many decades you getting to work is your own issue…thus why we find a place near highway access or near transit. asking a company to pay travel means they will just hire somebody that lives close by
Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 4 months ago
It really saddens to me see how many managers out there treat their subordinates terribly, and then act surprised when their subordinates do the same - as though employees are meant to greatful for their terrible treatment
ech@lemm.ee 4 months ago
brbposting@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Does ring true dunnit?
Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority”
and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person”
and they think they’re being fair but they aren’t, and it’s not okay.
ZeroTemp@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I recently was recently reprimanded for using the term “subordinates”. I was informed that term has fallen out of favor. Direct Reports is the proper way to say it these days.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Sounds good to me, I’ve never gotten in trouble for indirectreportination.
Nouveau_Burnswick@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What about indirect reports?
Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 4 months ago
Honestly calling someone a “direct report” sounds even more dehumanising. At least calling someone a “subordinate” acknowledges that you’re belittling their existence. A “direct report” sounds like a piece of paper.
Th4tGuyII@fedia.io 4 months ago
Fair enough. Subordinate is the term I've always heard used. Direct reports just sounds like the sugar coated version to me.
NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I refuse to install any work related software on my phone. Not only because I don’t want to be contacted after hours, but companies often “require” full read/write access on your device, so they can remotely wipe their data if you quit or get fired.
Fuck that.
Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
No modern MDM solution allows a company to access your personal data on BYOD. That’s why containerization of work profiles exist. Anything else would be a massive privacy scandal.
Company-owned devices, though, do have that level of access when MDM enrolled.
brax@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Intune installs as a device adminstration. I’m not sure how much I’d trust that on my personal device period.
Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I’d love to honestly believe that. But I still wouldn’t risk ever doing a BYOD with a company that forced me to install anything on my personal devices.
JackbyDev@programming.dev 4 months ago
Regardless, times I’ve tried to get access to work stuff on my phone I stopped because I had to agree to let my entire device be remotely wiped if they chose to. I had absolutely zero faith that they wouldn’t accidentally do it as a matter of procedure if/when I left the company so I didn’t do it.
conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
It honestly doesn’t matter to me.
Even if it’s an absolute certainty that there’s no possible way they can do harm, I’m unconditionally not willing to install anything on my personal device that isn’t for my personal use.
InternetUser2012@midwest.social 4 months ago
I’m with you there. My previous employer wanted a bunch of their shit on my phone. I asked if they were supplying me with a work a phone, and they said no, you already have one. I said I do, and it’s mine, and I’m not putting anything on it for work because work and home are going to be two different things. They gave me a work phone and then wanted to know why I turned it off in the parking lot before I even got into my car. I’m done working for the day sir.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
wanted to know why I turned it off in the parking lot before I even got into my car. I’m done working for the day sir.
My co-worker locked his in his desk drawer when he went home for the night.
scrion@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This is absolutely correct. Heck, you’re free to deny that based on any reasoning, maybe the shoddy icon of the work app doesn’t match your phone wallpaper.
The phone is your private property, if an employer requires an app to be installed to do your job, they can provide a phone.
I would also never let corporate IT manage a device, e. g. a notebook connected to my private network at home.
Emerald@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I would also never let corporate IT manage a device, e. g. a laptop connected to my private network at home.
If you ever must, buy a new laptop. And use it on a guest wifi network.
toddestan@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I would also never let corporate IT manage a device, e. g. a laptop connected to my private network at home.
That’s pretty standard for working from home. I’m expected to use the company provided, managed laptop with my internet connection.
I figured so long as I made sure of things like there weren’t any open file shares and things like routers and IP cameras were password protected there wasn’t a whole they could see.
MonkderDritte@feddit.de 4 months ago
Can’t you demand a company-provided device then? It’s their fault that you need those apps.
phoneymouse@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yeah and they want to install some profile that gives them access and puts your internet connection through their VPN. My coworkers look at me like I’m crazy because I carry a work device and a personal device. Like, why would I give my employer access to all of my web traffic on my phone? You’re crazy if you don’t carry two devices.
NegativeLookBehind@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That’s a no for me dawg.
Mango@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yeah that’s beyond fucked. That’s a major privacy issue.
Weirdfish@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The two consessions I’ve made are Teams, and the MFA software.
I am often running around to various sites and being able to use a quick chat is better than pulling out my laptop, and I turn it off when I’m off the click.
brax@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Yup same. It’s crazy how many people willing installed Intune and shit on their personal phone. If my company wants me to have that level of portability, then they’ll be buying a work phone for me and paying me overtime any time I’m forced to use it out of regular hours
jvw@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
So much this. No freaking way I’m making my equipment discoverable in a lawsuit. If they want to contact me after hours they need to give me a phone.
MrShankles@reddthat.com 4 months ago
I work night shifts. My manager one time called me around 2pm to ask me something menial and waking me up (as I was still sleeping for my next shift at 7pm).
So naturally, I called him at 2AM when I was at work… because I had an “urgent” question about a work policy lol. He got the picture, and that shit never happened again
krnl386@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
My guess is that some businesses get tax breaks from municipalities in exchange for filling office spaces with warm bodies. The idea is that people in office buildings support local businesses by buying lunch, and sometimes grabbing a pint after work.
I’m not trying to excuse this trend, in fact as an IT person myself I 100% agree with the sentiment, I’m just trying to share what I’ve been told.
tinkling4938@lemmynsfw.com 4 months ago
This is the excuse my employer gave. So I’m to take a pay cut (gas, wear and tear on my vehicle, loss of time to commute) so I can spend more money to prop up other businesses for a tax break that is likely to go into some rich ass C-levels bonus or shareholders pocket for cut costs?
Fuuuck that. Its just another way of picking the labor class clean to the bone.
DrDickHandler@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yes. That’s exactly what is happening.
gmtom@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Commercial realestste makes up a significant amount of rich people’s investment portfolios. And if people stopped needing office space the property would devalue and those rich people would lose easy money.
So they have all collectively agreed to force their workers back to the office I order to keep the real estate values up and keep their investments positive.
pelerinli@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Also rich can afford to have a investment in busy city areas while regular folk can get a house in urban areas at best. And work from home is leading people to the urban areas where rents are less.
friend_of_satan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s even simpler than that: they leased the office space and have to continue to pay that lease or else pay an early termination fee. This is basically the sunk cost fallacy. But you are right that sometimes additionally they get tax breaks for certain office space, for instance the San Francisco mid-market tax break (AKA the Twitter tax break)
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s astonishing.
The capitalists know full well we’re more productive working remotely, but their need for control has proven to be stronger than their insatiable greed anyway.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Just more proof that cruelty is the point. They’ve known since the 70s that they’d be richer than they are if they would pay thriving wages and eliminate poverty. They want the suffering more than the money.
IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 4 months ago
They would be richer, but by “allowing” working class people to have a thriving life means the power gap between us and them wouldn’t be as big. People could organize and overthrow them, so they have to keep us fighting amongst ourselves for scraps.
The cruelty is the point.
brax@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
It’s still greed. They want to justify the mobey they’ve wasted in useless office spaces.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Fair point
roofuskit@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Board rooms have a lot of people who are heavily invested in commercial real estate.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Also a fair point.
jeanofthedead@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I can’t believe people have work apps on their personal devices. Delete that shit!
icedterminal@lemmy.world 4 months ago
No matter what app it is, if employers require one to be used on a smartphone, they are legally obligated to provide you with a work phone. If they refuse, they are legally obligated to provide reimbursement for your personal mobile plan. This can be as simple as $5 or $10 added monthly to a paycheck, or as detailed as actual usage down to the kilobyte.
Even if it’s as simple as clocking in and out. If they won’t provide a phone or reimburse, they must have some other method to complete the task. Whether it be a computer or paper. Failing that, they are not upholding the law of providing you tools necessary to complete your job. Which means if they terminate you for any of the above under “not able to do your job”, it is retaliation for you requiring them to do their job. You could potentially win a suit against them.
tourist@lemmy.world 4 months ago
My employer provides us with a “tech allowance” as a bonus every month
It’s not enough to buy a barely functional work laptop, but you can “buy a laptop” through them, and then forfeit the bonus until it’s “paid off”
I’m kinda awful with money, so I pretty much need every cent I can get. That bonus goes towards keeping my head above water in the debt trap I’m in.
So my “work computer” which requires their
spywareantivirus to be installed is a virtual machine. It’s been two years and no complaints so far. Great antivirus.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I have slack in it, because I don’t like walking around with two phones, but I have it configured to stop notifying after hours. Also worth noting that I do have a phone from the company, it’s just that I find it cumbersome to walk around with two phones.
stoy@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Right now I am on vacation, my work phone stays at home with an empty battery.
They still have my private number if it is an absolute disaster at work and they need my help, but untill sunday evening I won’t even charge my work phone, let alone check it for messages/calls.
Work apps stay on the work phone, the ONLY exception to that rule I will ever make is work MFA apps.
But I’d sooner get a new separate phone for that if I don’t get a company phone.
Digestive_Biscuit@feddit.uk 4 months ago
I have two phones. A personal one and one provided by my company. I like being able to turn off my work phone when on holiday, etc and keep my personal life separate.
I do know a lot of people who sold their personal phones when given a work phone and use it for both. Saves some money I guess but no thanks.
I also know people who have two phones but install all the work apps on their personal phones to make it easier for them. No thanks!
popekingjoe@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It is wild to me, even as I have one work app on my phone. It’s only there because it allows me to clock in and out, and my personal phone is significantly higher spec’d than the work provided phone.
Even so, I cannot be contacted via this app and cannot perform work with it outside of the geo-restricted area.
dbx12@programming.dev 4 months ago
That goes into the work profile of my android phone and that profile of switched off after clocking out. Simple as that, I don’t have to carry two phones and get my peace after hours.
Dempf@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
For me it is a convenience thing – I spend a lot of time working from home and sometimes it’s nice to just be able to grab my phone and join a meeting while I’m sitting on the couch or w/e without needing to go over to my home office room. My team almost never does anything outside of work hours, so it’s not like I’m getting pinged or anything. In the rare situation where I get some notifications from a chat channel outside of working hours (usually someone in a different time zone) then I can just turn off work apps in Android and it goes away.
BilboBargains@lemmy.world 4 months ago
We have to call their bluff from time to time and remind the management that without us, none of their shit works. When we down tools its not like they can pick them up and get the show back on the road.
Asafum@feddit.nl 4 months ago
“I can grab any piece of shit off the street and replace you in 20 seconds.” Is what most of them think when it comes to meat machine labor like myself. :(
olutukko@lemmy.world 4 months ago
in my country you’re not obligated to answer to anything work related after your work hours unless you’re manager or superior or it is exliciptly said in work contract that you be on call.
br0da@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This is such an odd restriction for IT staff. Normally HR gives you a form to sign agreeing to working remotely sometimes and having company data on your phone because you know, servers are meant to stay on all the time? It must be nice living in a world where nothing bad happens after hours.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
My previous workplace was like this. It didn’t get to this point, I left before it got to the point of being told you’re not allowed to wfh under any circumstances, but I was very confused why I needed to go to the office, to do my IT job, helping people with their computers remotely. I go to the office, to work remotely. Which doesn’t make any sense at all.
What is special about the office that allows me to work better/faster/more effectively/whatever? Nobody could give me an answer. I can easily run the tools at home and work fine from there, but I’m not allowed.
My specialty is in network operations, if they want my work to 100% go through their equipment and firewalls and stuff, I can make that happen. With little effort, I can setup a system on a VLAN, and VPN that VLAN to work, blocking it from all other traffic apart from the VPN. It would be the only system on that VLAN (apart from the firewall/VPN device), ensuring no possibility of cross contamination between my equipment and theirs. They even had an openVPN host already configured, which they would only need to generate a connection file for, in order for me to get it working. I can then proxy 100% of my traffic through an office system and it would be identical to being present in the office, apart from me being physically there.
At home I have a dedicated room for my computer activities, where I can close the door and lock it if required, so I can remain undisturbed.
I made sure they understood all of this but they still wanted me in the office at least 4 days a week. I’m still not sure why.
I left that job, and my new job doesn’t even have a physical office, so I’m permanently working from home.
Desistance@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Malicious Compliance! The only way to go.
deltreed@lemmy.world 4 months ago
“You are not allowed to work from home unless we want you working from home” is basically their slogan. It’s so funny how these companies are ok with upper management working from home, or having remote locations in India where they work from home, or when it comes to working overtime/after hours from home. But, can’t do it on a day to day basis. Horrible companies.
ChillPenguin@lemmy.world 4 months ago
As some in IT. If my company ever does this. I’m doing the same thing. Genius play.
xilona@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Well done mate! 👏👏👏
masquenox@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Nicely done.
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Weird that you’d have to be available outside of work hours
PunnyName@lemmy.world 4 months ago
With from library.
BurnSquirrel@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I don’t think it’s this “all rich jerks own commercial real estate” thing that everyone going on about. I get the feeling it’s more about the managerial/director types. The ones who are maybe well off but maybe not quite rich. My director owns a 150,000 tesla, but I don’t think he’s near well off enough to own an office building.
Anyway, at a certain level and upwards, all you do is meet and talk to people all day. They value face to face communication because that’s a more effective meeting, and builds more rapport with the members.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
BAM! God I need to start doing shit like this.
01101000_01101001@mander.xyz 4 months ago
Fucking based
FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Veronica!..is that you?!
7fb2adfb45bafcc01c80@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Here they’re pushing the “must be within 60 miles from the office” trope; I bet they’d say to drive in if it’s after hours.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Me who likes working in a office:
andrewta@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s funny as this is, I’m quite certain if somebody actually tried that the real world they’d get fired. That will employment means they don’t even have to tell you why you got fired. They’ll just wait a couple of weeks or a month and tell you goodbye.
RBWells@lemmy.world 4 months ago
We went back to the office, I don’t care because my commute is immaterial BUT now I leave my laptop there, I disassembled the workstation at home and packed it away, I will not work at home now. Teams is on my phone because I don’t put the work email on my phone and needed a way to tell my team if I will be unexpectedly delayed. I don’t open it ever though, and now we have a group text might take it off too.
Vaggumon@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Wife was hired in 2014 for a position that was designed to be remote. They changed things in 2017 and tried to make her come into an office 2.5 hours away, 5 days a week. She’s legally blind and doesn’t drive, a fact they were fully aware of and had no issues with when they hired her. She tried to argue multiple times, and it just ended up going in circles with several managers getting pretty insulting to her. So, she quit, and eventually decided to contact a disability lawyer to inform the ex-employer she would be suing for discrimination, and ADA violations. Because they said some pretty stupid things in emails and voicemails. They ended up offering a nice sized settlement. She found another WFH job that paid 3x what she was making at the old place, with a higher level position and more closely fits her education. She’s much happier with how things turned out for her. The position has been on various job sites for over 3 years and doesn’t look like it’s been filled since she quit, though I can’t say that for sure.
jelloeater85@lemmy.world 4 months ago
They think we’re cattle, but cattle won’t eat the rich.
I have always told folks that I managed, that I’m nothing without them. Yea, I have a MBA as well, but man, are alot of those business folks short sighted to a fault. Like lack of empathy and foresight.
If your KPI’s are based around having a knowledge worker in a chair in a room, your business should die.
Plain and simple.
Texas_Hangover@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Cattle will stampede if you piss them off enough.
pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 4 months ago
My boss is awesome. He realizes that his job is mostly to make sure we’re able to do our jobs effectively. It really feels like I’m working with him, not for him, which is how it should be.
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
All these “nobody wants to work anymore” people are the ones that think they don’t have to take care of their employees because they can always hire someone else.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Good
You should absolutely sue when your rights are violated. It is not ok for an employer to discriminate based on disability.
sukhmel@programming.dev 4 months ago
I’m sure they don’t even understand that it was a discrimination, judging by the fact that they went on and left a lot of evidence of their stupidity
MonkRome@lemmy.world 4 months ago
My sister in law is blind in one eye, but because she has one working eye she has no disability protection as far as I know. She still can’t drive because she has no depth perception and it’s very dangerous. It’s made navigating going to work difficult over the years, often working the same place my brother did so he could drive her. Luckily her current employer works with her and lets her work from home. But a decade ago no one would have dreamed of letting her work from home.
systemglitch@lemmy.world 4 months ago
In Canada that would be labelled a legit disability without blinking an eye.
dohpaz42@lemmy.world 4 months ago
According to the EEOC, it’s a disability:
And it sounds like her employer is doing the right thing. But if ever she feels she is not being treated fairly, she should talk to a lawyer to be sure. Don’t just let it slide because she has one good eye. Hell it might be good to talk to a lawyer anyway, so she knows what to look out for in the future if things happen to change.
deltreed@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That’s a triple win. Love hearing these types of stories.