Submitted 2 days ago by miked@piefed.social to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
When I took a class to get my Concealed Carry Permit, on the very first day the instructor made a very interesting statement.
“If you are somewhere where you feel you need a gun to feel safe… Why are you there in the first place?”
While I did go on to get my permit I never once carried. I never went anywhere where I felt I needed it. If I became uncomfortable at a location, I left.
I got mine so it would be easier to transport weapons to a range. I got the weapons in case trump starts a civil war or something.
As well reciprocal states that recognize it so you can transport them with minimal issues as well. It’s one reason to get one regardless of being in a constitutional carry state.
As another carry permit holder, this is most certainly true. But there are a few places I will carry due to the remoteness and some of the wildlife that can eat you if they really want to. But mostly it remains at my bedside as an “in case” if it’s needed. If something were to go sideways, law enforcement is probably going to be at least 20 to 30 minutes away and possibly up to 90 minutes. I cannot rely on either one of the two deputies on duty at 2AM to be anywhere near me if things go bad. Things will be well and done long before I can expect help.
Another thing most of the rabid “Gotta have my pistol and 3 spare mags on me at all times” never think about is the cost of shooting someone even in self-defense. By the time it’s all said and done, it can cost upwards and beyond of $100,000+ in lawyer, expert testimony, and court fees. And you are likely to lose your job due to being jailed for at least large parts of it.
But mostly it remains at my bedside as an “in case” if it’s needed. If something were to go sideways, law enforcement is probably going to be at least 20 to 30 minutes away and possibly up to 90 minutes. I cannot rely on either one of the two deputies on duty at 2AM to be anywhere near me if things go bad.
If something goes ‘sideways’ at 2AM, you expect anyone breaking into your house to ring the doorbell and wait for you to wake up?
Even if you carried at all times, and you were specifically trained (think special forces training, not I spend my weekends at the gun range training) then it’s still a toss-up if you will be able to respond fast enough. If they want to harm you, they will. You cannot be hyper-aware of your surroundings 24/7, you need to relax, you need to sleep.
I can’t imagine what life must be like when you’re so afraid that you think you need to have a gun within reach at all times.
I did self-defense training, both learning and teaching for close to 15 years or so, I did the CCW thing, took classes in firearms as well as martial arts and the whole nine-yards for many years.
I will often reiterate what you cited there, that if you’re in a dangerous situation that you already expect to be dangerous, your first priority is changing your situation. Not going to that place, working towards moving, etc.
I eventually also stopped carrying my gun, because all it did was add extra stress to my life. Always making sure you know where it is, if you’re somewhere that legally prohibits you having it, then if you do have to leave it outside of a store or business, you are always thinking about it inside your car. My greatest worry was someone breaking into my vehicle and using the gun to commit a crime, which statistically is much, much more likely than actually being in a situation where you need to use it.
I still own guns but keep them locked up. But I don’t enjoy guns broadly because I’ve had too much time think about it. I’ve had to learn the law, I’ve had to take responsibility for teaching others how to defend themselves, I’ve spent too much time playing out situations and the post-event situations that most gun-chuds NEVER spend a moment thinking about.
Interestingly, a lot of gun violence in the US comes down to neglected spaces. Without changing anything else, cleaning up vacant lots, demolishing abandoned buildings, adding street lights, and general neighborhood beautification cuts down on a LOT of gun violence. Violence intervention programs–teaching kids restraint, essentially–does a lot too.
Never really thought about the logistics of having to leave it in your car. Are you allowed to take the ammo in with you?
I got a conceal carry and virtually never carried. The main reason I got it was because the rules for transporting your weapons/ammo without it in my state was overly convoluted. So even just going to the shooting range was more involved.
There might be someone dangerous in Publix!!!
It happened to me once. I was sitting on the back porch on a farm in Tennessee, and there were cans on the ground about 100yds away. Things would have been better if I could have put some holes in those cans
Hope you had a backstop
Please… that sort of precautions are for pussies… USA USA USA
The pig who shot Michal Brown said he had to shoot because Brown could have taken his piece away. If you accept that, then you agree that, at least in this situation, the public and the police would be safer without guns.
It used to be: I had to shoot him judge, he had a gun
Then it was: I had to shoot him judge, I thought he had a gun
Now it’s: I had to shoot him judge, I had a gun.
I have, it’s not fun
Lucky you.
Please explain.
Some of us have been victims and may have a different opinion.
Guns have caused a lot of harm. They seem evil until you need one. I was hiking solo in the wilderness once and was carrying one for wildlife and was attacked by a homeless guy. I shoved him away and pulled it out and he ran off.
A girl just got killed by a mountain lion on a hike not 2 miles from me. A gun could have prevented this. I do live in the mountains so like this may not be common
People who have been in situations where having a gun would have made things better tend to not be around anymore to post about it.
Not so fun fact: Gun suicides are far more common than any other type of gun related death. Having a gun in the house is a big risk factor for suicide.
Without getting into details I believe this to true.
Not really, suicide is historically just under half of all gun deaths. But your point stands!
It hasn’t been under half in ages. In 2023 it was 58% in the US and in some areas it’s noticeably more
What do you mean, “not really”? Is there a single type of gun-related death that is more common? Because OP is saying “the most common,” not “the majority”.
I think you missed the point. Not what percentage of gun deaths are suicides, but what percentage of suicides are gun related.
100% I just posted a comment about how I feel like I’m more likely to kill myself than needing a gun for defense. Not that Id generally say that I’m suicidal.
I’ve faced many attempts to severely harm me but I usually escaped. I failed to escape twice: got kneecapped with a bat once (leaving me with a permanent injury), and stabbed once miraculously missing anything vital.
My crime: having to work late, growing up in a poor neighbourhood.
I’d feel a lot safer if I could be armed. I don’t want to die.
There are plenty self defence tools apart from guns.
That’s a hell of a thing to say to a person who has literally been stabbed.
I’m happy for you. It sucks having to use one. But it sucks more not having one and having to use one.
Clearly you’ve never spent time in the desert near Ship Rock at night. Never heard the stories told by the natives and the rangers and the soldiers. Never saw twisted shapes on four legs run backwards into the brush, living rot retreating from your headlights. Never heard the desert go completely silent, not the sound of coyotes or insects or wind, while you see shadows move in the starlight. Never seen things that look like deer but aren’t run as fast as your car on highway 191, taunting you, staring at you, trying to fool you into slowing down or stopping.
Not that a gun would do much good against them, but if your car breaks down just south of the state lines near four corners, some who know the area would say shooting yourself is a better death than the alternative…
I read this three times and I’m still pretty lost as to what you’re hinting at
The area I’m talking about is one that supposedly has a high concentration of skinwalkers. There are lots of creepy stories about skinwalkers across all of the nearby states, but that area near four corners is where the Navajo nation and Hopi and Ute reservations are.
Maybe it’s just mass psychosis or a pop phenomenon, but people who regularly spend time in that area from the natives to forest service to the national guardsmen running trainings out there, will warn you about traveling at night and not stopping for anything on the road especially if its an animal that looks off in some way
Scared of Chupacabras or something like that is my guess.
Americans are always living in fear of something, so why not that I guess.
I’m guessing it’s related to the Navajo skinwalker legends.
I think it’s indeed fair to say that the vast, vast majority of people have never spent time near Ship Rock at night.
Not that a gun would do much good against them
So even that is not an argument for guns?
You purposefully omitted the last sentence specifying a gun gives you the option of a quicker death.
And I guess I’m overselling the walkers/witches/spirits a little bit. Most rangers and soldiers think guns are useful at least as deterrents if not fatal weapons. In fact usually the stories end with something along the lines of “and that’s why I keep a loaded shotgun within arms reach when I’m driving there” or something similar lol
But technically, yes, you’re right, guns are not necessarily vital.
The Navajo and Hopi and Utes and others have supposedly been defending themselves against these for much longer than guns have been in the Americas and possibly since before guns were even invented. However, afaik most strong good magic in their traditions is drawn from community. So if you’re a lone traveler who has neither a tribe that can help protect you (physically or magically) nor personal cultural knowledge of these evils, I’d argue a gun is probably the best substitute you’ve gonna get.
(Of course, just not traveling in skinwalker country at night alone in the first place would likely be the most effective method of survival lol)
Alright, well, I don’t believe in ghost stories.
Might not be ghost stories. Prairie dogs carry the plague, and armadillos carry leprosy.
Sheesh, should’ve known better than to try and make a joke around here, I guess. I appreciated it, at least. I’ve got a soft spot for suddenly making really dire, grim statements in otherwise totally pedestrian conversations
It genuinely boggles that so many people would take “the evil night-horrors” as an actual argument for this
Here’s one my conceal carry instructor taught about, and I’ve seen it play in my own life:
If you have a machine in your pocket or pants that is capable of taking a human life, you think and act differently. You’re more situationally aware, because you don’t want to stumble into a situation where you have to use the fucking thing. A concrete and steel box may be the next place you find yourself. Forever.
I lack the words to put the reader in that emotional state, but it’s real. Not like you’re paranoid, constantly on the lookout, but you are more aware. Used to put myself into crazy situations when I was younger, got stories all night long, but now I’m way more chill.
In the past, I have been threatened with violence, many times, from the homeless downtown.
Unarmed me: “FUCK YOU!”
Armed me: I’m out, not a word. More to the point, I wouldn’t be anywhere near that situation in the first place.
“But you can peace out without a gun!”
Very true, I’ll grant that. But having one makes me more aware of what’s going on around me, makes me less threatening. The vast majority of us are exactly like this. If you watch GunTubers, you will find none of them talking the way we’re made out in social media, drooling for violence. Most of the “give me an excuse” people are already in jail or dead. It’s a Darwinian thing.
The stories you hear on the news are outliers, or they wouldn’t be news. (That applies to everything else in life.)
I’ll only add this: Almost everyone in America is woefully ignorant of self-defense laws. Cops are the only shooters that can kill with impunity. You cannot, almost no matter how justified you think you are. Concrete and steel box.
Anyway, I’m sure a European from a healthy society will be right along to lecture me on how nuts I am.
“Yes, this is my emotional support firearm. Why do you ask?”
Maybe getting chill and more aware is just a function of getting older. I mean, I live in a country where nobody is armed and: I get in less dangerous situations and am more aware than in my youth.
Cops are the only shooters that can kill with impunity. You cannot, almost no matter how justified you think you are.
Tell that To Kyle Rittenhouse…
He is an exception you know about because of all the news stories. If that wasn’t the case, he would have not been more than a single blurb on the news and forgotten by morning. And he would be most likely in jail. A result you wouldn’t have heard about either.
News outlets have a vested interest in shouting up the outliers while mostly ignoring the mundane. And cops are just the group you have outsourced the killing to so you don’t have to.
UKian here to lecture you on how nuts you are: I’m sure there are cases like yours, where you will retreat from a situation because you have a deadly weapon hidden on you. I’ve known people who carried weapons and who would generally try to avoid danger. But I’m 100% positive that’s not the norm, and most people who feel the need to have a gun would react less predictably. I’ve not lived in the US, but the impression I get from media is that there are a lot of gun owners who haven’t trained with them or who are “muh freedoms” idiots.
the impression I get from the media
I think this is the issue the OP is trying to point out. There are many more silent, responsible gun owners than nuts.
Unfortunately a lot of people seem to put a hammer in their pocket because they are always looking for nails. Hammer or not.
There are untold numbers of videos, clips, tiktoks or whatever of people who refuse to walk away from an escalating situation. Out come the fists, or sometimes a gun. The comments are full of people agreeing with FAFO with no thought of walking away and the violent means and end, and plenty claim to be fine with using a gun.
I’ve been through those courses and carrying a firearm is sobering. I don’t do it anymore, and sometimes I miss it, but not enough.
Conceal and carry holders statistically are the safest segment of society for the exact reason you just gave. I would rather be in a room full of conceal and carry holders than the general public or police.
I was walking in a relatively safe part of downtown last month when two drunks suddenly started fighting over a dog 8 feet from me. I noped my way out of there. I had my gun on me but had no interest in intervening.
For the vast majority who carry we don’t want to put ourselves in a situation where you have to use it.
But yeah, I’m also sure some internet guru who has never held a gun in their life will tell me why I’m an irresponsible death machine.
I live in a duty to retreat state. And damn if this isn’t accurate. You have to be cool as a cucumber. Back out of all situations.
You just try not to put yourself into situations at all cost.
Okay, but what if my self-esteem is predicated on the knowledge that I could kill anyone at a moment’s notice.
Surely that suppressed libidinal desire to inflict unimaginable pain and suffering on everyone around me is worth something.
You’ve got a good point there… Have you ever considered using your car as a weapon against bicyclists who have indirectly offended you?
It’s incredible that we feel the need to make up monsters for our movies and ghost stories when we’ve got prime examples living amongst us.
Realistic movies scare the shit out of me. Prisoners, Blue Ruin, The Tall Man. True psychos are way scarier than any fucking ghost or demon.
A bicyclist’s very existence is offensive. But I consider the .50 mounted on the back of the pickup a more sporting way to handle things. Alternatively, mini-gun mounted from a helicopter, and if anyone asks I’ll just say I was hunting wild hogs.
I’ve never been in a situation where I’d need to know how to do cpr. Yet I’ve learned how to do it.
I have lived in Oakland. I have lived in some of the seediest areas in Northern California. I have known gang members that wore colors. I have seen bikers with patches all over the place.
Not once have I been in a situation where a gun outweighs treating people like they are people.
I currently live in Oakland.
Then you know! I currently live in Vallejo.
Well someone doesn’t have depression and likes to flaunt it
I have depression and a massive fear of guns. Like I can’t stand being anywhere near one or someone holding one. I do my best to avoid the gun section of Walmart whenever I have to go there.
I have depression. Depression and guns do not mix well.
Not with that attitude 😁
I have. I’ve been in places and situations where being able to get someone to back down and slow their roll would have been a better outcome than what I was able to get without being armed. Shit just happened around me, and I couldn’t exit the situation in good conscience. It’s terrifying to try to stand up to stop shit from going really sideways knowing that if it does, there’s not a lot you can do except be a meat shield for someone else. Almost all defensive gun use doesn’t involve shooting; it involves having a gun, knowing how to use it, and using the threat of force to stop someone else from escalating a situation.
People say that when seconds count, the police are only minutes away, and fuck me, that is extremely optimistic. I’ve never had the cops show up in under five minutes; the closest was about ten minutes, and that was after a shooting in my 'hood in Chicago. CPD showed up after the ambulance.
Let’s imagine that the weapons are extremely hard to get, and normal people can’t afford even legal ones (because of checks and prices), not to say about illegal. Wouldn’t your place be better one if that was so?
I can see situations where having one would be handy, especially in the US, but I think the likelihood of me blowing my brains out is greater than needing one to defend myself, so I don’t have one.
One of those things that’s true until it isn’t, IMO.
Not for some of us.
Even under circumstances you would think might change our minds. Even then, we won’t change our minds.
So you’re saying in the middle of being mauled by wild dogs that not once would it occur to you there’s a tool which could prevent it, nor would you want it?
I goes some who won the darwin award will be proud of it
You should be more grateful to the universe for that.
Lucky you!
I have. Luckily I didn’t have to pull it though, I just put my hand on it and the guy holding the knife at me decided “I’ll catch the next one” and walked away.
Shit like this never makes the news because it’s boring and you can’t prove it. Anyway, since Trump 1.0 I won’t set foot outdoors without being armed and since Trump 2.0, there’s never a gun I can’t reach.
If it was just me, not such a big deal for a middle-aged white guy. But my wife is a brown, legal immigrant. Let’s say I have drawn a line at what my life is worth.
As a lawyer and a as a normal citizen (mind you I’m not American) I’ve been to couple of situations where it made it better. Once was against a home invasion attempt as a citizen. Other was when someone threatened to kill me in my office as lawyer. There are some more but I’ll keep them to myself.
How did the home invasion attempt resolve?
Me and my family would be robbed and who knows what else the person who was trying to enter into my house and as for the event at my office I’ll be shot at my office. Are you really lacking empathy and foresight this much for me to explain all this to you?
How do you plan on doing the revolution without a gun?
“Political power grows out of the barrel of a gun” -Mao
“By any means necessary” - Malcolm X
“I don’t care if I fall as long as someone else picks up my gun and keeps on shooting.” - Che Guevera
etc, etc…
Queer leftist person with a trans partner and I have a Mexican name in a red state.
I really, really, REALLY don’t want to need it.
I dread the day I might need it.
I’ll probably just die. But I wanna believe it’ll be on my feet if it comes to that.
I’ve never set my house on fire, but I still feel better having a fire extinguisher.
But what if you wanted to shoot a gun? Surely that would make that situation better.
Glory to Mankind
I have, but it’s because I’m trans and I lived in a bad place for trans people.
Give it a bit, we all will.
It’s tough to get the 3rd t.
I was once at a kids birthday party and they couldn’t get the piñata broken so I shot it open and everyone clapped then the kids took the candy and all the moms put out and I found a crisp $50 bill in the couch.
You don’t get moments like that without a lady derringer in your fanny pack, friendo.
Really the only times I’ve been in a situation where I both didn’t have a gun and would like one is when I’m out on the farm and I see a rabbit. Or a magpie.
I hunt. I depend on venison for food. Does that count? Honest question.
6jarjar6@lemmy.sdf.org 2 days ago
When I’m at the range!
miked@piefed.social 2 days ago
Damn you