As a middle manager in a corporate hellscape, one of my few joys in life is setting logic traps for HR and making them choose between admitting company policy is bullshit or directly instructing me to violate labor laws.
Not allowed to work from home
Submitted 4 weeks ago by sjmarf@sh.itjust.works to maliciouscompliance@lemmy.world
https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/7cb836c7-1ad6-47b0-8fd1-22f4b720aff1.png
Comments
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 4 weeks ago
Doing the Lord’s work there, Sonny!
acockworkorange@mander.xyz 4 weeks ago
I would love an example, but can accept you can’t produce one without compromising yourself.
TheLowestStone@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The current argument I’m involved in is about an online platform that people can use to give recognition to each other. HR is telling me to give my team negative performance reviews for not using it regularly.
They love to remind me that there’s an app that everyone can install on their phone. The thing is, my team aren’t allowed to use their phones at work. So, the goal is to get them to tell me in writing that using this online platform is mandatory and that my hourly staff has to do it off the clock or face repercussions which is illegal.
BlueLineBae@midwest.social 4 weeks ago
I always refused to put work apps on my personal phone because they would make you agree to some bullshit where they could remote access your phone or potentially wipe it. So I would refuse and say they needed to provide a company phone for me if it was that important. Most companies are either ok with this or provide a phone, except for one company. This was a software company, and literally everything else about this company was a unicorn of a job. But for some reason they wanted me to have slack on my phone and also wouldn’t give me a company phone. So I dug up an old phone, reset it to factory settings, and added slack to that so I could say I did it. Then I put the phone away and they never asked about it again. So I really don’t know what the point of that was 🤷
TexasDrunk@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I really don’t mind these days as long as they have a MDM so I can have it on a separate profile, but without that I’m totally with you.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
How does the separate profile keep the company from factory resetting the whole device?
bitchkat@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
My current pet peeve is Email servers (MS Office) configured to only allow connections from outlook. I’d be happy to add an account to Aquamail but they won’t let me. So no work emails on my phone or personal laptop.
abff08f4813c@j4vcdedmiokf56h3ho4t62mlku.srv.us 3 weeks ago
Ditto, but this is actually a bonus for me.
"Didn't you see my email and message last evening?"
"Not until I got in today, because it came after I had logged off and I can't see that stuff on my personal phone because, you know, IT policy."
bekopharm@discuss.tchncs.de 4 weeks ago
for some reason they wanted me to have slack
I get similar requirements from school and kindergarten nowadays. They want me to install weird apps for communications. Last school had an online portal on the web and mail. That was a no brainer but these apps?
Hello Waydroid.
Not gonna taint my own phone with this stuff. That includes WhatsApp.
Salvo@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
Same as. Certain family members expect everyone to be on Facebook and also drink all of Zucks Kool-Aid.
I just don’t go to those family events, unless I’m personally invited. If an event only exists of Facebook, it does not exist to me.
I have 2FA apps on my phone for work. I also have the horrendous HR app for applying for Annual Leave. If they insist that I need more work-related apps on my personal phone, I will be getting a second phone and using that exclusively for work. It will be turned off when I walk out the door at the end of the day and kept in my office drawer.
Nibodhika@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
While I agree with you and understand that perfectly, slack doesn’t have that remote management thing, so far I’ve only seen that Microsoft apps.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
Its a feature of mobile device management software. Intune for microsoft is one but theres also intelligent hub/airwatch, citrix, manageengine, etc.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I’m not allowed to work from home and it seriously pisses me off. Whenever I complain about this to my boss, she always gives me shit like “you’re a school bus driver”.
dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de 4 weeks ago
I am in a weird position, as a software developer, I work for a tiny company and they’re against work from home, but they’re absolutely amazing and accommodating in all other areas and I have no complaints.
So I had car issues and was able to work from home 3 days a week, but it still pisses me off that I have to go in those two days. They say it’s so we can communicate and ask for help, but mostly it’s a silent office and we can’t even wear headphones. Often I can go in and if I’m in a mood there is no communication all day long. Yet I’ve had to take a 3 hours public transport route to work (car issues) just to sit there and not talk.
I’m torn because they’re amazing in every other aspect and super understanding about my mental health issues and leaving early and making up time etc.
Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Why no headphones? Is management a bunch of Nazis?
coriza@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
People will look at one aspect and say that the job sucks. Truth is, there is no perfect job and only you can tell that it balances out. The way you talk about it really feels like a nice place to work, with the exception of the headphones thing, that is weird. And if you like to chat with coworkers a full remote Job may be kinda hell, it is really easy to feel isolated and not connect with people because it takes more effort like going to audio or video calls to hangout or having to chat over text more
funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
accommodating in all other areas
have to be completely silent at work
can’t wear headphones
they don’t get mad when I’m sick
no communication all day long
don’t have targets
are you sure?
ninekeysdown@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Headphones as a reasonable accommodation for a disability eg ADHD/Autism/etc might be a good option if it applies to you
Carighan@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
can’t wear headphones
Wow, imagine coding without podcasts or music…
roofuskit@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
If you’re a developer just get a new job. Seriously, don’t put up with it
____@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
Feel ya, no job is perfect. My giant employer is great about WFH for those hired as such during a particular period of time, but they’ve outsourced HR entirely to a third party - a simple inquiry becomes a three day saga, abd if I’m talking in real time to HR, voluntarily, it’s because I’ve a concern of some immediacy.
WFH plus great benefits > downsides, but it’s always a balancing act of priorities for sure.
MadBob@feddit.nl 4 weeks ago
I’d grin and bear it to be honest. Perhaps try and look at it like time you won’t be spending money on utilities to warm your house and stuff like that. For perspective, though, I prefer going out to work rather than working from home, and my commute takes just over an hour each way four days a week.
chakan2@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They’ll hire remote drivers from India soon enough.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I’ve traveled in India - there’s no way that would produce anything but piles of dead children. My money’s on being replaced by AI first.
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Our boss was freaking out over people sometimes doing some private calls during work hours and at a certain point absolutely forbade it. So yeah, people would just end the call at 17:00 sharp and switch off the work phone. It took one week before that rule was rescinded.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
This reminds me of a work-to-rule or a “White Strike.” It turns out that every company, even those that supposedly operate off of “unskilled” labor, utterly rely on employees making a ton of judgment calls and often working outside their job description. When employees start working to the letter of their job description, the whole operation quickly grinds to a halt.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
“Other duties as assigned” is a bitch.
mrecondo@lemmy.sdf.org 4 weeks ago
Here we call it “standard operation” and it’s also a kind of “white strike”
phx@lemmy.ca 4 weeks ago
And that’s ridiculous on general because you know who also does regular work hours? Everyone else!
That means if you need a call with your doctor, bank, whatever, it’s likely gonna be during the workday
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Teamwork makes the dream work.
bran_buckler@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
God, I hate how often my CEO says this
pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 4 weeks ago
In all of my IT jobs I would have been fired if I had signed into work accounts on my personal phone.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
True, but in small companies it’s not uncommon.
Chocrates@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I was at a subsidiary of a very large company and had work slack, email, and all my code on my phone, without even the thing that lets them remote wipe your phone.
It has to do with culture and willingness to put in the effort by the security organization
flicker@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Not exclusive to IT; I had to weigh the benefits of continuing to work as a caregiver for a small company, versus working in retail for a massive chain (which translates to fantastic insurance benefits.)
Sadly not a competition.
Tyfud@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
While true, most enterprises have ways to silo and encrypt their data on non company controlled devices.
Android does something like that when you install ms office apps with administrator controlled policies
lemmylommy@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Fuck their data, what about my own? That pest of an app is not getting onto my device. And neither is anything else that gives an employer any control over my device.
DrDystopia@lemy.lol 4 weeks ago
Unless it’s 24h gold service with 24k gold pay, the work phone gets turned off at the end of office hours.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
There are places that pay well for on call though.
ricecake@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
Eh, it doesn’t need to be, you just need to do the work of putting together granular access controls that can account for your risk profiles.
The risk isn’t much different between a company owned telephone and a personal telephone.
They’re both susceptible to most of the same attacks, or being left on the bus.leisesprecher@feddit.org 4 weeks ago
Most companies seem to have don’t ask, don’t tell policies in place.
Technically we’re not allowed to use Teams on our phones, but most of us do, including management.
I’m also technically not allowed to use Spotify on my laptop, but if they’d enforce that ban, IT would be gone tomorrow.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
In my current job the old manager okayed working on our own devices.
I would use my personal workstation to ssh into and do work on my work mac, did that for a few years. saved me disassembling my desk between uses every day or buying a costly KVM.
They seem to be getting a lot more uptight about security these days (although the “you can work on personal devices” rule hasnt been explicitly rescinded) so i have stopped interaction between my personal devices and work devices.
Having a M2 mac recently makes it easier, i can lie in bed and work pretty much all day on a single charge so my desk remains intact
pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online 3 weeks ago
I remote into my work laptop too, but I don’t have any work data on my personal devices. And, my desktop is more secure than my work laptop.
Mojave@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Man we had someone in the army do this. Army doctrine is either outdated or very accessible to the poor, I don’t fuckin know, but you aren’t required to have a phone.
So this one weird junior Joe just decided he didn’t need a phone. Got rid of it, and as a result never got the information he needed on army shit. I loved him for it, and by the law he was in the right. Can’t tell him to get a phone.
Unfortunately I was his team lead, and every time my chain of command decided to put out bullshit last minute information over text I had to tell them to suck it and pvt NoPhone wouldn’t be at their surprise formation.
Sometimes for important stuff I would have to drive to the barracks and knock on homies door to let him know there’s surprise inspections or piss tests and shit.
The workplace should operate entirely without external communication. It worked since the dawn of man, and it should continue to work until the end of man if we want any semblance of work-life balance.
Vorticity@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
If I had to guess, the reason for the lack of a phone requirement is that, if the army required everyone to have phones, the army would need to pay for them, too. I’m sure the army loves spending money on things like that.
Spacehooks@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
Which you know makes sense. What if aliens invade? We need the team assembled!
Southern_Yankee@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
As retired Army, this is freakin’ phenomenal. I hope that dude is doing well today.
bekopharm@discuss.tchncs.de 4 weeks ago
pvt NoPhone
Love this bit. Gonna steal it :D
drkt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Boss calls me (the sole on-site IT person) on a sickday and tells me something important broke and I need to come and fix it (45 minute bus ride one-way). I know exactly what broke and I tell her if she goes into my office and turn my computer on then I can remote in and fix it in literally 5 seconds. She nearly screams at me saying that my contract doesn’t allow remote work and I don’t remember what exactly was said after this point but it was something along the lines of:
“It won’t be fixed for another 5 days then because I’m not coming in today (Thursday) and I don’t work Fridays or Mondays”
“Ok bye”
“bye”
Guess it wasn’t important
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
You can always spot the ones who care about the power structures more than the purpose by stupid shit like this.
xavier666@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
It was quite generous of you to even suggest solving it on a sickday. Boss should have understood.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
Doing home health was kinda instructive for me in this regard.
The only time you go to the office is to turn stuff in, do inservices/continuing education, or similar. But originally I would answer calls at weird hours because a patient would need coverage, otherwise they wouldn’t be calling.
And then the management spent way too much money buying into some Disney corporate policy thing (literally, they paid money to Disney for the program) that changed a ton of rules in bullshit ways that made no sense for home health.
So, the next time they called, I didn’t answer. Or the time after that, or the time after that. And, when you’re one of three men working for a company that’s partially reliant physical strength to be able to do the work needed for some patients, this alarmed my supervisor. She requested a meeting, and I went in. Mandatory meetings were paid though!
At the meeting, it was expressed that answering calls was part of my job. So I asked id I was being paid to sit at home and wait for calls. No, I wasn’t “on call”. So, you want me on call? No, just to answer when we call you. That’s being on call, and we’re supposed to get paid for that. No, this is different, we just want you to be available when someone calls out for a difficult patient. Soooo, you want me on call.
This went in circles for a while before I switched gears and directly said that answering calls when not on duty was not in place when I was hired, and that the employee handbook specified that being on call was considered a shift, and would be paid as such, and that maybe I should have been on call any of the dozens of times I did wake my ass up from sleep after workout two or three jobs in the first place, and that I never got paid a dime for doing so, so that was the end of it for me.
The response was that they couldn’t stay operating if they paid everyone for being on call instead of us “supporting the company”. My response was that maybe they could have if they hadn’t shelled out for the Disney crap, or if the previous administrator hadn’t been screwing around and embezzling, and that maybe it was time the company supported us.
Not surprisingly, I was one of several employees “let go to streamline services” a few weeks later, right before the company folded entirely.
So, you don’t even have to have an office job to get treated like shit! Isn’t that a relief? Isn’t it?
Rolando@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The response was that they couldn’t stay operating if they paid everyone for being on call instead of us “supporting the company”.
That’s the heart of the matter. They wanted you to support the company, without the company supporting you.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 4 weeks ago
The people who should me steering the ship often would never accept a position at the helm, and then we are left with people serving up platitudes about why they deserve free labour.
Only thing you left out is when they say, “it doesnt come with additional pay but it will look good on your resume!”.
Brickhead92@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
A previous job of mine wanted people in my team to volunteer for being on call overnight for a week at a time.
No-one did, so they forced us. I emailed all managers involved including HR I said that I would like to opt-out for various reasons like family, mental and physical health, and also that the pay was in no way adequate for what they wanted. Again they pushed, so I replied with I’ll do it but would be unavailable most afternoons and evenings with my kids and things they have on. That I also won’t be able to answer after going to sleep because I take my mental health very seriously and need quality sleep to function.
So the first night I slept peacefully as I normally do as I have my phone set to go to DND automatically. I got called in because I didn’t answer a call that came in last night, I asked when it was, about midnight, and said well that’s because I was asleep.
Go to the next 2 mangers up, say the same thing and they say that I need to answer. I explain the email stating that I would be unable to answer calls at many times including when asleep and how no-one replied with that being a problem. One of the managers was like, wait up, you flagged this; yup; can you send me the email chain; yup. Got removed and told I wouldn’t need to worry about doing it anymore.
It found a new job shortly after that.
trolololol@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Sounds like a 3rd world ultra capitalist creepy story. I grew up in center right 3rd world (Brazil) and that would make it a truthful but funny snectode.
Now I’m in center center 1st world (Australia) and we’ve got passed a law a few months ago to not bother employee for bullshit.
I though why did we fn need a law for that, then your story reminds me.
Aussiemandeus@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Yeah great law, really put the breaks on my old boss. He would email and call at like 10pm at night about shit.
Now I work for myself and can’t get away from my boss haba
000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 weeks ago
…you shouldn’t have to respond in home hours regardless. Any time you spend on work during your life outside of contract is them stealing your labour.
Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 weeks ago
Many IT jobs require an on-call rotation. Even when not on call, an SME can be called in an emergency. Time spent on call-outs typically either pays overtime or gives comp time. The infrastructure has to keep running, that’s just how it is.
DerArzt@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
pays overtime or comp time
You’re very funny, great joke! 😭
CancerMancer@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I keep critical applications running at work that thousands depend on. While I was at a union convention, one of my apps broke. I had to login that day and fix it while going over the budget with other members.
This is how the IT world is. I’m the only person capable of maintaining it and I must be available if things go wrong. The show must go on.
icedterminal@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Most IT positions are salary so this makes sense and is reasonable for critical systems. If you’re not salary, yikes.
isolatedscotch@discuss.tchncs.de 4 weeks ago
many people who work from home have flexible work hours (they can decide if to work in the evening or morning) and so they need to be reachable at any time, even it it might be off hour
Don_alForno@feddit.org 4 weeks ago
I have flexible hours. What it means is not that I’m reachable around the clock, but that I decide when I work and am reachable.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Keep telling the DBAs that my company outsourced a big chunk of their tech stack to that its against company policy to work all the way on the other side of the planet, but they refuse to show up to the office.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Incoming employment terms ammendment:
You can work from home but only to answer us when we contact you. You must answer our contact and must report to the location if requested. If you can do something cheaper (for us the company) and faster (for us the company) then that is the only time you may perform a work duty at home.
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
It’s EU law that if you have to be standby to pick up the phone and go on location at a moment’s notice, those are working hours and need to be paid in full. Most companies are pretty careful to not put it anywhere in the contracts or house rules that you have to be on stand-by, but just verbally keep pushing for it. If they keep pushing, push back with asking for the written rules.
Bruncvik@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
I’m on hybrid, but my entire team is all over the world, so I’m just as alone in the office as at home. The only difference is that in the office I’m bound by the train schedule, so I can’t take out of hours calls. My coworkers and manager keep petitioning HR to let me work from home full time.
schnurrito@discuss.tchncs.de 4 weeks ago
Why did you, why would you, ever have work email and Teams on your phone in the first place?
Spacehooks@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
Which is weird cause the savings in not comming in to center is a win for everyone.
verdigris@lemmy.ml 4 weeks ago
Should be the standard anyway. Reading email and texts from work, or responding to calls, is work. Unless your contact specifies on-call hours, you should ignore your boss outside of working hours.
st3ph3n@midwest.social 4 weeks ago
“No, not like that!”
Cold_Brew_Enema@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
Big “thathappened” energy
DerisionConsulting@lemmy.ca 4 weeks ago
If you sort by new, the last time it was posted in !maliciouscompliance@lemmy.world was only 2 posts ago.
tee9000@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
That happened
limelight79@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
After four years of work from home, since the beginning of the pandemic, we’ll soon have to start going back in once a week. I know, that’s a lot better than many people that have been forced into 5 days a week or similar bullshit, but it’s definitely one more day a week than I want to go in. DC area, too, so you know traffic is going to be a nightmare, as always.
I’d even be willing to go in quarterly or whatever for special meetings. But weekly? We’ve proven we can do this.
They’re pushing this whole “hybrid” working and “rethink how you work!” and “it’s all about teams!” But they didn’t require any sort of coordination on coming into the office for teams, or anything along those lines - it’s a free for all. So instead of sitting at home on a call, we’re going to be sitting in cubicles on phone calls. It doesn’t make any sense.
And even if they had decided teams should coordinate in-office days, my area in particular works with so many different teams that we’d still be remote for most of them. Or in the office every day, which would not go over very well.
But I’m sure the Popeye’s (fast food chicken place) across the street will welcome us back. The one that has survived over four years without us. No one I know has ever gone there.
We’re going to lose a bunch of people as a result. And hiring is a disaster that isn’t likely to be resolved any time soon. It’s gonna be a fun few years…
Counting down the days until I can retire. Unfortunately, there are too many, I’ll have to deal with this. Or find a completely remote job.
HawlSera@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
This is basically how I get new privileges at work…
Now if only I could convince them that I don’t have enough hours to do my job, while still being able to do enough of my job without getting fired…
No really they cut my hours and I’m still pissed about it.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 4 weeks ago
And....? How did the story turn out?
bulwark@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
The policy is you can only work from home when it benefits the company, not you.
abbadon420@lemm.ee 4 weeks ago
I’m learning that the hard way. Started working for this company 2 hours from home,because I could WFH 3 days a week. Now they want me to come in 4 days a week. So I’m looking for a new job now. Which is a shame, because I do like the job.
Chocrates@lemmy.world 4 weeks ago
What does your contract say? With this back to work bullshit I made sure my contract explicitly said I was remote.
Doesn’t mean they won’t change their mind but maybe I’ll get severance instead of fired for cause of they have a back to the office push.
7U5K3N@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 weeks ago
Remote rocket ship and hiring dot cafe