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there is a special place in hell for these scientists

⁨1135⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨not_IO@lemmy.blahaj.zone⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/e0dc117f-f101-4b5a-9076-9ba706c8856e.webp

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  • ThePantser@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Taking “will it run doom” one step too far.

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    • tpihkal@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      We need to take it back a step and see if it’ll run Linux.

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      • new_guy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Asking someone to compile the kernel with their mind sure is one way to give someone a headache

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      • OwOarchist@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I can imagine a new AI hellscape where LLMs are run on human brain cells in a test tube. So you’re never quite sure if you’re talking to a mere algorithm … or an enslaved proto-human who might be conscious and whose entire existence revolves around answering your inane online queries.

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    • Kowowow@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      A closer example would be if it could use the console in linux since it’s only playing dom not running it, I wonder if wetware would be any better as a coding assistant than ai

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      • duncan_bayne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        playing dom

        I do not want to train a bioengineered intelligence with guns to do that.

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      • zalgotext@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Is anyone else really skeeved out by the term “wetware”, or is that just me

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    • Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Yeah now it’s “will it speedrun DOOM?”

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    • HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Can they run console commands?

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  • gigastasio@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    It’s having more fun than I am.

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    • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Maybe the real hell is the life we’ve lived along the way.

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      • MrVilliam@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Maybe this experience is just a higher being’s analog of Doom and we’re just cells in a petri dish running an MMORPG version it. Stupidest simulation theory ever, but hey man, we’re sorta doing it so how stupid can it be?

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      • glibg10b@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        This is the bad place!

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  • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    … Am I missing something, or is this not like, the practical, if not lore accuratr first step toward actually creating a:

    Image

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    • DaCrazyJamez@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Next step, give it spider legs and a gattling gun!

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      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I mean, Boston Dynamics figured out how to build essentially robot mules and cats like a decade ago, and they’re actually currently building and improving on humanoid designs.

        They got basically acquired by/folded into Hyundai, you know, an actual manufacturing company, unlike Elon’s ongoing fradulent shitshows.

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    • Avicenna@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      the only missing component is a minigun, robotic spyder legs and positive reinforcement coctail whenevet it kills a person.

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      • Guilvareux@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        “We decided to leave those out of our first test, staring down the barrels of a minigun during neural training were putting our scientists off”

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      • sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Image

        Image

        Image

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  • HailHydra@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I’m not sure if it’s the same scientists, but the YouTube channel The Thought Emporium has an ongoing series about growing neurons to play retro games (such as OG DOOM).

    The playlist of this series is fittingly called “Building the Torment Nexus” youtube.com/playlist?list=PLZLsjPxmF1BE1BAAeJgF2A….

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    • chaogomu@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      It looks like their setup, but I don’t see any recent videos. Jan 15th was their last one. I think they have a patreon with bonus clips and advance stuff.

      Might be from that.

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      • general_kitten@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        perhaps they did the experiment and are now working on a video about it

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  • starman2112@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Raises uncomfortable questions about consciousness. The only difference between these neurons and your own are the number of them and the structures they form. Of course it doesn’t know what it’s doing, but… Neither do our own neurons

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    • luciferofastora@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Science and Ethics — the age old enmity between “I wanna know” and “I’m not allowed to find out”

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      • Sturgist@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Science and Ethics — the age old enmity between “I wanna know” and “I’m not allowed to find out” “Am I able to find out without doing something monstrously inhumane”

        FTFY

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    • ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Nueralink did pretty much the same thing to monkeys that are actually concision. So it this different only because those are human neurons? Is human consciousness different than animal consciousness?

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      • Turret3857@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        i dont think op made a mutually exclusive statement?..

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      • starman2112@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I’m not sure this is quite analagous to neuralink’s monkey experiments. That said,

        So is this different only because those are human neurons?

        To my mind, a neuron is a neuron. The only difference between your brain and a monkey brain is, again, the number of neurons and the structures they form. I don’t see this as any different from monkey or rat or ant or entirely digital neurons.

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      • SpaceCadet@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Sounds like those are uncomfortable questions being raised…

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      • Paddzr@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Yes. Because it’s us. Anything not us is always going to be less valuable. You’d kill 100 lions if it means saving 1 human.

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      • MDCCCLV@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        That was just to try and make the equipment work at all, it wasn’t about doing anything with software. It’s the opposite where you’re only worried about the physical damage and infection.

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    • ziproot@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Do those neurons interact with hormones like mine do?

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    • KindnessisPunk@piefed.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I mean it’s the same question we’ve been asking all our lives about the animals, fetuses and now AI. When does it stop being a flowchart and start being a consciousness.

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    • Zacryon@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      And now bring artificial neural networks, i.e., AI, into the picture to make it even more spicy.

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  • voodooattack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Image

    Finally, I know when I saved this to my phone there would be a perfect moment. (Humanity is too predictable)

    Attribution: lemmy.world/post/43077529

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    • bampop@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      OK but hear me out here, I think I have the beginnings of a business plan:

      1. Create the Torment Nexus

      2. ?

      3. Profit

      Some components of the plan are still under development, but let’s not lose momentum here. We can advance with the initial phase while brainstorming to refine the plan in real time as we progress. It’s an exciting opportunity and we mustn’t forfeit our first-to-market advantage.

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    • ouRKaoS@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Scientists: “No, this isn’t The Torment Nexus, this is ‘The Nexus of Torment’! It’s totally different!”

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      • kalpol@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        In other news, Torment (with the patches) was a really good game

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    • ViscloReader@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Wait is it a real cover? Was it made before or after squid game? It uses the same font

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  • Clbull@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Cortical Labs are the ones who pulled this off. They already have biological computers running on 800,000 lab-grown neurons available for ~$35,000 (just going on what a quick Google search told me) and are planning to open up a cloud computing service with its own API soon.

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    • gerryflap@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Personally my worry really isn’t reincarnation, there’s no reason to believe that that’s true. But if these are fundamentally the same neurons that make up our brains, then how much do you need to put together before they acquire some form of “sentience”? Does a clump of 800,000 human neurons experience pain, sadness, a sense of self? Where is the line between an emotionless biocomputer and torturing a living organism for its entire lifespan?

      Despite the fact that I really hate “AI”, that question was of course already sort of relevant for the latest AI models, even though we can generally conclude that they’re not there yet at all. But real neurons are different, we know what they’re capable of. How many do you need before a clump of neurons has rights?

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      • Jyek@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Large language models are not intelligent. They are predictive text applications with massive dictionaries of circumstantial sentence structures to choose from. Nothing more. They do not feel and do not think for themselves. The only time they do anything is when the API calls them to produce more text with an updated context string.

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      • Washedupcynic@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        It has to be a full fetus with a heartbeat to have rights. /s In all seriousness, the human brain is estimated to have 86 billion neurons.

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    • mastod0n@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      “Do lab grown neurons have a soul?”

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      • samus12345@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I would say consciousness is required for that, so no.

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    • Sarothazrom@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      aw sweet, man made horrors beyond my comprehension 😍

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    • buddascrayon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      There’s another bunch of guys who are trying to do the same thing with rat neurons on the cheap using Gatorade as a growth medium.

      youtu.be/bEXefdbQDjw

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    • Bluescluestoothpaste@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Ha, i understand why it would make someone uneasy but personally that sounds like heaven to me. Seriously,.take a slice of my neurons and hook them up to play doom forever, that’s what I want done with my remains. (I guess the rest of me cremate or something idc)

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  • phutatorius@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I have no mouth and I must Doom.

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    • Sturgist@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Honestly? Sounds preferable to being stuck in the universe of I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream… I’ll take a challenging power fantasy with some massively overpowered weapons over millennia of endless physical and psychological torture by an insane AI… might just be me though…

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    • outerspace@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I have no MOUSE and I must DOOM

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      • SomethingBurger@jlai.lu ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        The original DOOM is entirely playable on a keyboard, though. It’s essentially a 2D game, as you can’t look up or jump.

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  • red_sock@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Computer Scientists: We can make Doom run on any device! Bioscientists: Watch this!

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    • Mac@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Cosmologists: *cracks knuckles* Check this shit out.

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  • aeronmelon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    We are old gods who punish life for fun.

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    • sem@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Stupid Sexy Goldberg

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  • saxrussell@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Image

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    • 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      *hell-spawned brain cell noises

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  • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    That’s fucked up though. What happened to bioethics and review boards?

    We don’t understand enough about human consciousness to say that those cells aren’t sentient. We have no idea what sort of experience, if any, they’re perceiving.

    This is not okay…

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    • bdonvr@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I’m no scientist but I’m pretty sure we know enough to say there’s no consciousness at this level. Consciousness as we know it is pretty fragile.

      There may be a point if this is scaled up that could be a concern…

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      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        We do not, in fact, know enough to say there’s no consciousness at that level.

        Anyone who tells you that is being intellectually dishonest.

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    • DokPsy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I’d say they’re experiencing being doom guy but that’s just a guess

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    • workgood@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      this is fucked up beyond limits. i hope those that did it die a full of suffering death.

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      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Sounds like something from a horror manga.

        I’m seeing the chimera from FMAB saying “Edu…wardo… koroshite…kure… onegai…”

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    • 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The goal is to grow brains in lab and prevent robot cops to tear off their own faces

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      • wonderingwanderer@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        The end goal is probably a vat that billionaires can hook their brains into at the end of their lives so they never die.

        That probably has something to do with their push for virtual reality and the ‘metaverse’ (fuck zuck for appropriating the greek language for his pet project; I used to use that word to describe a sort of hypothetical hyperdimensional multiverse where “spirits” inhabit 4D/5D topologies).

        Oh and why they’re training AI agents in “environments” now (basically, 3D-scanned renderings of real life spaces).

        If they can put all the pieces together before they die, then they can hook their brains into these computers and control a little avatar so they never have to die and can continue making our lives hell (at least as long as they maintain ownership of private capital, or until we seize the means of production and redistribute the wealth).

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  • crazycraw@crazypeople.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    “hey you, glad you’re awake…”

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    • desiccated_event@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      DO NOT give Todd any more ideas….please.

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  • Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    So, uh… is it any good at it?

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  • this@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Ah I see, so we’re adding the matrix to our dystopian horror show reality then.

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  • MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    200’000 “brian cells” (so about 1/3 of it neurons) is the equivalent to a really simple microcontroller.

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  • cmbabul@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    So we’re just going full head of steam into a combo of the torment nexus and AM

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  • Ghostie@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    So they are growing doom guy.

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  • Patrikvo@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I suppose anyone here who believes in reincarnation is slightly worried now.

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  • WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    It would not know what hell is, just that humanoids are enemies.

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  • desiccated_event@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Is this how the Borg began? Suddenly makes more sense with the outfits.

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  • NewSocialWhoDis@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Ok ok, hear me out, what if they were harvested neurons from someone everyone wishes had gotten punished for their crimes, but never was? Hitler or Stalin? Or Trump! Or Putin!

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  • SaltyIceteaMaker@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    something something torment nexus something something

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  • rizzothesmall@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Iirc the study found that the neurons played “slightly better than buttons being pressed at random” or something like that, so it’s hardly pro gamer brain chip.

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  • matlag@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Am I the only one who wonders why, in a world where there are already concerns about machines rebellion, when we train rats, robots and a bench of neurons to play a game, it HAS to be Doom, we can’t think about another, non-violent, or let’s be bold: non-destructive game??

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  • jojowakaki@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    "Scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn’t stop to think if they should"

    • Micheal on his fictional book about sex changing lizards in an unconventional zoo.
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  • UltraBlack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Didn’t the thought emporium work on this?

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  • ThatGuy46475@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Maybe this will lead to San junipero for real

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  • cley_faye@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Training brain-chip to Rip&Tear, I’m sure this can never go wrong.

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  • collapse_already@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Next step: putting the cells into one of those Boston Dynamics robot dogs with a gun attached. What could go wrong?

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