Are you kidding me? What’s next, entire stories that just play out in front of you?
Sony AI patent will see PlayStation games play themselves when players are stuck
Submitted 3 weeks ago by themachinestops@lemmy.dbzer0.com to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
the_q@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Kolanaki@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
Sony invents radical new idea of a passive medium where you just watch the action instead of control it.
Wait a minute…
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
But it’s just vanilla combats with predictable outcomes.
So they invented… the first dozen seasons of the Pokemon cartoon?
ClusterBomb@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
It could be a good idea! Maybe we should create rooms with big screens for people to watch it together. We could make them pay for it and it would be a great opportunity to sell pop-corns and Coca-Cola!
criss_cross@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
It might work for a bit but it’s gonna fizzle out if they decide to overcharge for popcorn and coke to the point it costs $100+ to watch one video game.
termaxima@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Next thing you know they’ll remove the graphics and make you read the story instead…
FUCKING_CUNO@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Just make a fuckin movie!
_stranger_@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
skozzii@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
I’m just gonna end up being an old man in my basement, staying warm with the radiant glow from my CRT monitor while playing SNES, Genesis and NES games.
dkc@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I’m already there. It’s peaceful.
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
-inserts Aladdin geneses cart- “Then the fire nation attacked.”
canofcam@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There is a small bit of intrigue here, imagine you get to a boss and think, ‘this is impossible’ but there is an ability to observe a ghost of your character taking the boss on in your gear.
Bare in mind as well that ‘AI’ has existed as a word in gaming for decades and has nothing to do with LLMs, surely this is achieveable purely with the gaming definition of ‘AI’ simply coding the PC also as an NPC that reacts to things.
slappyfuck@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Yeah, it really annoyed me that the author of this piece doesn’t understand the distinction between AI as a concept (always around in computing) and AI as in LLMs and the other stuff.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
So… What’s the point of playing then?
Games are expected to pose some sort of challenge, of difficulty, to keep the player interested. Even if it boils down to pure frustration at some point, making some turn from it, even learning how to deal with it is useful. Games are some of the oldest teaching tools we stumbled upon.
This another move on human and individual agenda, on learning how to exist, to an extent.
This isn’t funny.
tino@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
it’s not about playing, it’s about paying. The sooner you finish the game, the sooner you buy another one.
yakko@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Exactly, I don’t play my games to finish them. I gnaw on them for hundreds of hours like a dog with a dinosaur bone. I’m the bane of the game industry and proud of it.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Games are already too expensive and it has been made known. That is a sure way to make people abandon platforms.
Honytawk@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
No, that is how you expect to play a game.
Not everyone plays games the same as you or even for the same reason.
If I get frustrated with a game, because I have to repeat the same part over and over, I just quit and go play a different game. Doing the same thing is boring. And life is already frustrating enough, I play games to relax and enjoy myself.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
I am not on a quest to prove you wrong over me being right.
Do as you will, it is your life.
But it is through learning from small, inconsequential things like games, of any kind, to deal with controversial or unpleaseant feelings that many kids acquire coping mechanisms to handle real life situations. Situations with no cheat code, dificulty setting or pay-to-win mechanisms.
Wanting an escape, a tension release valve is fine. Just pick the right one.
Xella@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Then don’t play dark souls. It’s inherently a frustrating game series, on purpose. I like to get gud and if some asshole puts AI into the game that takes over when I am stuck for a while I’d be upset. But tbh I wouldn’t even buy the game that has this in it. I’m not interested in training LLMs with my gaming skllls.
demonsword@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Even if it boils down to pure frustration at some point
…the point where many people simply give up and refund? Maybe they’re trying to avoid something like that
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
That’s really funny. It never stops to amaze me how convenience replaced well considered options.
You spend the money, you get to keep it. The logic of guaranteed satisfaction is non-sense. Unless it is defective, what other reason is valid to return anything?
LwL@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Cheat codes and difficulty settings have existed for forever. Dynamic difficulty is common, and used to great success in beloved games like left 4 dead. Just a different option to get past the part you’re stuck in is really nothing bad.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Cheat codes are one thing. You can abuse those to even smoth your learning curve to later beat the game clean.
The same logic can be used for difficulty settings: you play it, in harder and harder settings, to have a new/added challenge.
Dynamic difficulty I’m unaware of what it migh actually be buy I risk I have an idea.
The game playing itself? Sounds like a movie.
But I hope you are right.
PierceTheBubble@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
And the next patent will be about a controller, not actually being plugged into the console, but merely giving gamers the illusion of affecting the gameplay…
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I also made my little brother player 2.
kossa@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Wait until they discover some remote controller, where you can switch the games that are played according to some schedule. Like some form of game stations. Maybe they could broadcast them for the whole population somehow and talk about the games they
playedwatched last week on their next town hall gathering or Sunday church with Aunt Lizzy.PierceTheBubble@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
You’re on an entirely different plane of reality mate, my brain just can’t fathom such concept
joyjoy@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Didn’t Nintendo do this in the New Super Mario Bros.? If you died enough times, it asked you if you wanted Luigi (or some other character?) to show you how to do the course.
riskable@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Yep. Stadia also had a feature like this (that no one ever used).
Just another example of why software patents should not exist.
Chozo@fedia.io 3 weeks ago
Stadia was a Squandered Opportunities masterclass. That platform had SO much potential; the tech was there, and the tech worked, but Google hired the worst possible person to run the project.
ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Isn’t this already done with Mario game(s)? I think it was Super Mario Deluxe, where if you die enough times, Luigi shows up and will be doing the entire level for you including the ‘boss’ fight.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
On Super Mario Wii U this happens. My daughter used it to see how to get through levels she was having trouble with. It’s frustrating to watch, though it showed me I was wrong that levels basically needed the run button to be held to make it across the gaps.
And then you can either accept that the ghost beat the level for you or go back to trying.
But, the thing is it’s not very difficult to do this with specific games. You can just record the inputs as they come in and replay those, which is how replays or saved games often work.
Seems like they want to be able to do this for arbitrary games, which requires a much more sophisticated system that can understand what’s on the screen, what the goals are, and how to achieve them using just video and audio feedback (and maybe hint documents from the makers).
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Every game is an idle game now… ?
Sure, why not.
tehn00bi@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Player counts is all Wall Street is looking for.
T156@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This feels like it’s going to incentivise developers to either make bad puzzles, or bad hint systems. Why bother with a good one if the platform has a “complete this for me” feature? It is basically impossible for players to get stuck or struggle, when they’re either shown the solution, or the game completes it for them.
sirico@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
Vibe gaming
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
“But games are so booring nowadays.”
bhamlin@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m not sure how I feel about games that are easy enough that AI can play them, and that people might need help with them.
Potatar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The games we play are that easy though. Dark souls with eyes = hard, dark souls to an entity which has no eyes, but can read RAM states = easy.
Most singleplayer games (so the opponents are clockwork) are easy to enough to play with heuristics, why do we need a whole ass neural network?
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
You’re right. We don’t need a whole ass neural network. I’m throwing mine out right nowwwwwwwwwwjdjfjcmxn;&:@, jsi2@29394
Cybersteel@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But what if with banana?
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
People want to do things with their friends and gaming is the acceptable addiction that is forcing non gamers to play anyways. So now games are… not games so much as they are just time wasters to fill in for experiences.
ICastFist@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Remember when the way to beat hard bosses was to either git gud or input a built in cheat code? Pepperidge Farms remembers
MMO veterans might be very interested in this kind of totally never seen before type of play automation
Sturgist@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Remember when the way to beat hard bosses was to either
git gudhand the controller to an older sibling/cousin/friend or input a built in cheat code?Xella@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Why would you single out MMO veterans in this scenario? I’ve been playing MMOs since 2001 AND I git gud. I am the older sibling/cousin that you hand your controller to when you don’t want to git gud to pass a boss.
Overall… I hate this idea that Sony has. If this becomes the norm I might never play a new game again 😭
ICastFist@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Singled them out because they’re the most used to seeing “autoplayers”, aka bots
Cybersteel@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Mmo players are the lowest form of humanity.
pinball_wizard@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Why would you single out MMO veterans in this scenario?
Not op, but I took it as being because MMOs are the only modern games where anyone really cares if the player cheats.
oce@jlai.lu 3 weeks ago
I wanted robots to do my chores but instead they are taking my job and my hobbies!
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Sign into Roblox and it’s just a bunch of GPU Farms trying to diddle NUCs.
Railcar8095@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Oh boy, the darksouls community is doing to be very funny to read
lemmydividebyzero@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Hey Alexa, have fun, so I don’t have to!!
Matt@lemdro.id 3 weeks ago
Unpopular opinion: I like this idea. I like games that are essentially interactive stories with an open world to explore. I don’t want to be challenged when playing games, but even on the easiest difficulty level, I occasionally hit a challenge that results in me abandoning the game altogether.
AI is not necessary for this though. The Persona games handle this well where the player does not need to restart from the last save when they die. They get an option that fully heals them and they can keep going.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
I’m a bit confused why you’d like this idea though. This is essentially a built in TAS, so unless your desire to prevent challenge includes using the controls, I’m not sure how these experiences would count as genuine games.
That being said, I do appreciate accessibility and streamlined difficulties in games for those who desire them (even if I play games for the challenge).
AlfredoJohn@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Eh it just adds more accessibility to games, it doesnt bother me if someone likes specific parts of a game and not the full package. You may enjoy the challenge aspects but dont find other areas like exploration to be as enticing or for someone else maybe its the opposite. Having the ability to pick and choose what parts of the game you play and allow other parts to essentially be a cutscene doesnt seem like a bad idea. It just means more players can enjoy something. For example I liked eldenring, but I found the boss fights to be a bit to much for me and ended up never finishing the game. I dont have a ton of time to play so having to memorize fighting patterns etc for a drawn out battle just pushed me away from the game. I want to be able to create the character pick my weapons abilities, explore then just do some minor battles that arent going to be me needing to repeat a fighting sequence for 10-20mins. If I had the option to essentially turn the boss fights into cutscenes driven by my weapon choices and skills that I crafted with my character that would be pretty cool and give me more enjoyment possibly enticing me back to the game. While i enjoy puzzles in some games I know some people just want the action, so imagine having something like legend of Zelda and being able to skip the puzzles but take control for fights and exploration. Having the ability to customize the experience of a game just means you can appeal to a wider audience and that is not a bad thing.
JigglySackles@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
…fuck off.
L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Can’t wait for crappy devs to use this feature as an excuse to design dogshit puzzles.
gaylord_fartmaster@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I’d rather have this than the currently popular “if the player hasn’t solved the puzzle within 30 seconds, have a character start repeatedly giving the solution away”.
riskable@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
“To solve this puzzle, you have to get your dog to poop in the circle…”
Honytawk@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
If the AI is unable to finish those puzzles because they are as you say “dogshit” then it still wouldn’t fix anything.
AI also still needs context, just like players. A better solution would just be a premade cutscene.
L0rdMathias@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I’m more talking about crappily made halfasses riddles and puzzles that require huge leaps of logic to the point that random brute force is just as valid a solution.
Like the stuff from NES/SNES days. Not actually a puzzle, but just random sequences of seemingly unrelated triggers. Castlevania II comes to mind as a quick example.
Xenny@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
this just in the next generation of video games will play themselves. Due to rising costs though play time for most run-throughs will top out at about 90 minutes.
ICastFist@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Already previous gen if you look at the mobile landscape, Sony’s just getting on with the times
locahosr443@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Sometimes I like to play a game on max difficulty, sometimes I choose easy chill mode so I’m all for games having a wide difficulty scale of options.
This just seems stupid, and more like they can’t deal arsed to balance a bunch of difficulties so just slap some AI slop in there and call it done.
howrar@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
I don’t know if you can describe it as “can’t be arsed” when their proposed solution is so much harder to implement.
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Opening an rdp connection to some dude in India so he can do it for you isn’t that hard.
Like some other AIs ended up being.
Earthman_Jim@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Is it? What’s so fucking hard about it?
Tetragrade@leminal.space 3 weeks ago
Look, that ledge has yellow paint. I bet I can climb it.
plz1@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I wonder if this is a step toward them self-purchasing game micro transactions, too. …
7isanoddnumber@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Nintendo has been doing this since the Wii era.
New Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Super Mario Maker 2…
Technically all the Rhythm Heaven games also have this feature.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So a bot? Those have been in gaming for fucking ever.
This patent is so dumb.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
What is even the point then?
Just watch a movie or read a book.
Shit, listen to an audiobook if you’re that lazy!
agent_nycto@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What they gonna watch a movie for me too? Fucka my wife for me? Eat a steak for me? I can see this for games for kids like with that Mario example, but for everyone else seems like it would be a nuisance. At least have it be opt in.
snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
God I remember doing a puzzle in Jedi fallen order and about half way through it’s like “oh maybe you should do this” and pointed me to the solution… Like if I’m playing on the hardest difficulty why are you throwing hints that ruin the whole thing?
brown567@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I’m sure game journalists will still manage to get stuck on the tutorial XD
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Wow that’s depressing. I guess the main solace is that if Sony patents this then we’re unlikely to see this practice on other systems.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Still, on the long list of shit we need to fix with America, fixing the patent system is a big one.
Large corps buy them like lotto tickets and try to patent anything and everything they can.
Look how long WB has sat on the Nemisis system because they got a patent a decade ago on it. It wasn’t really a unique idea, but thousands of games have been prevented from doing anything similar.
otter@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
TIL, and also ☹️
artyom@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
A lot of times companies will patent things that they don’t necessarily intend to ever produce. Sometimes to obscure the patents that they actually do want to produce. Sometimes to reserve it in the case that they do want to later. And sometimes so that no one else can.
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
This. Sony patented the stand up and say something to skip ads.
This was a decade ago, and it’s not a thing, and won’t be a thing.
chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Also, this isn’t possible with current or even next gen tech, unless they literally script the “AI” responses to all available situations which would be infeasible.
LLMs can’t reason or handle complex situations. They are text auto complete programs or image generation programs.
ArsonButCute@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
What is your problem with it? Just seems like an accessability feature to me. The one issue I see with it is folks who don’t need it using it in lieu of walkthroughs and wasting energy. I don’t expect that to be that big an issue though, generally people buy games because they want to play them.
SchmidtGenetics@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Just screw disabled people eh?
Saapas@piefed.zip 3 weeks ago
Are you really playing the game if the game is just playing itself?
cecilkorik@piefed.ca 3 weeks ago
You don’t need an AI to skip, bypass, or cinematic your way through a difficult section. That’s a game design issue, not a patentable AI issue. This does not support disabled people, this will be used to ignore disabled people during game design and fire people who are actually competent at supporting disabled people.