Submitted 1 day ago by Toasted_Breakfast@lemmy.today to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
Why is the Republican party so content with denying healthcare as a human right, and trying everything they can to harm people who need any sort of assistance? Like… How do they do it? How much are we talking here when we speak about tax savings for them?
Pretend I am rich? Like how much money am I getting back by Republicans kicking men off healthcare or destroying insurance for those who need it most. It must be alot right?
My brother’s a CEO of a hospital. He makes over $400,000 a year. He told me that he votes for whatever candidate lowers his taxes. He cares about nothing else. Which is strange considering he’s in the healthcare industry. But, he broke down the numbers for me and he voted for Trump over less than $10,000 a year. That’s how much less tax is he pays. Like I said he cares about nothing else. He has a trans son, who he supports, however he will vote against his interest for under $10,000 a year. Year. I don’t know that this is Jack answer you were looking for but just the personal. Anthony.
He has a trans son, who he supports
No, he objectively does not. Tolerates on a local level, sure, but not supports.
“I love you, son! I’m so proud of you for being your true self,” he yelled from outside the burning building, holding the door shut, “but you’re on the insurance policy, so the payout is better if you die!”
This is vaguely wjat my .om told me. “My paycheck was bigger under him last time” direct quote.
Its not hate FOR some ither group its selfishness and greed and paranoia that someone is getting something over them.
This affects where people live too. blue states have higher tax and income tax so why would I live there ?
Maybe if we could directly see where every penny of our taxes go. But in the US its just blatant theft we try to avoid as much as possible. In other countries you actually see benefits of your taxes. Not here.
Still if I made 400k a year I wouldn’t really give a crap. Its more when you make 40k a year and taxes take 25% you get a little upset.
When you earn $400k and lose $200k of it to taxes, you get more than a little upset.
It’s really just exclusive-validity identity politics, which has roots DEEP in many mammal-species…
Here www.amazon.com/…/B004OEILH2/ you can read the beginning of a book which explains how our unconscious-minds fight off any growing-up, fighting-off change…
In it, it describes 3 unconscious-mind-development-stages, which I call Kegan3, Kegan4, & Kegan5, simply because there are SO many different systems-of-stages-or-dimensions to keep mindful-of, like Kahneman+Tversky-1 & Kahneman+Tversky-2 ( imprint->reaction system, lower-forebrain, the ideology/prejudice/trained-expertise system, vs considered-reasoning, upper-forebrain, much exercised in programming )
… that it’s idiocy to NOT index all such things, now…
Here, if you scroll down a little, you can see a table describing the different unconscious-mind-development stages, ALL of them, that their-kind know about ( the stage after Kegan5 is the self-conquering-stage, which they never saw or identified, because our world’s process sabotages/prevents it )
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kegan#The_Evolving_S…
Now think about herdbeasts, which don’t have Kegan5’s systems-of-systems stage…
They do have Kegan3, which is the upper-limit that cows are allowed to, by bulls, & they have Kegan4, which the bulls level-off in…
Kegan3 is wanting to be liked, it is associating-with validity ( hence the power of “influencers”, among the younger humans in any time ), it is, fundamentally, ( & I’m not certain that Robert Kegan understood this ) the absorbing experience stage of one’s life, living more in feelings & social-“reality”…
Kegan4, on the other hand, is what I call “BullingBOSS mode”, where validity is zero-sum game: it is exclusive and that is exactly the way bulls work: it is limbic-brain, in basis, so it should hold throughout most mammals!
Now, IF one’s identity & validity are rooted in zero-sum game, then anyone else having any validity reduces one’s own validity!!
Narcissism also works this way, you’ll notice, so now there are 2 fundamental-causes for such instinct, in-play…
Here you will find a book which explains the 5 LEVELS of culture-process, from competitive-nihilism’s culture-level-1, to LIVING IS SELF-INHERENTLY AWESOME!!'s culture-level-5: www.amazon.com/…/B006IDG1K6/
Here is the dumbed-down TED Talk about their years-of-research: www.ted.com/talks/david_logan_tribal_leadership
Culture-level-2 produces conspiricism! Subject-to-narcissism is therefore strategically-cancerous!
Now, what happens if your culture glorifies exclusive-validity identity, and, in so doing, produces a glass-ceiling on one’s culture, which prevents culture-level-4 & culture-level-5…??
One ends-up devaluing, dehumanizing, others, & wanting them butchered, in order to validate one’s culturally-grown prejudice!
IOW, it isn’t just-the-Republicans, the nazis did it, I’m certain that much of the time the Romans did it, different Chinese cultures have done it, same with the Japanese, etc…
It expresses different ways, depending on the identity-anchors of the “valid”, vs the “nonvalid”…
As Logan, King, & Fischer-Wright noticed, you can walk into ANY hospital in North America, with the exception of 1, which outgrew that cultural-glass-ceiling, & if you walk-in looking both professional & self-confident, the junior staff won’t meet your eyes, because the narcissism-culture of the doctors has destroyed their human-validity.
THAT is evidence-based knowing!!
The vignette that Logan gives, in that TED Talk is on that specific section of their book, but doesn’t give enough of it.
Both my parents were medical-professionals, Dad was a medical researcher and doctor, and that researcher bit was significant … because the narcissism-culture of White medicine definitely saturated them both, but his science-culture overrode that, intellectually … for which there ought be no limit to my gratitude, for that gift…
( doesn’t mean I didn’t go no-contact with both of them, though: the narcissism, the exclusive validity that doesn’t include me is toxicity/cancer, in any “family” or “community” )
( btw, the personal-stuff is only so that you understand the experience-induced-understanding: it isn’t just theory, it’s earned understanding. There’s no reason to care about it, otherwise: it’s just context/perspective, so leave me out from any “care” or “concern”. )
Now when you’ve made your culture narcissistic, AND you’re glorifying Kegan4’s BullingBOSS mode…
…AND you add-in non-accountable authority’s rule … then sociopathy’s the result, isn’t it?
It is produced by this configuration of culture-forces!!
( definitions: psychopathy means incapable of empathy, because one’s mirror-neuron-system, or something, just doesn’t function, so other-lives are just meat-marionettes…
sociopathy isn’t brain-intrinsic, it is psychologically-produced analogue-of-psychopathy, through systematic imprinting ( that Kahneman1 imprint->reaction system ), until the programming produced it. )
So, anybody here who wants to read just how evil “normal” can be, please read some of Angela Davis’s “Women, Race, & Class” book … www.amazon.com/…/B0054KKRKY
& you will begin understanding just how spectacularly wrong our assumptions are, re human-culture-produced-outright-evil, from the utterly stomach-turning historical-facts she’s putting into that…
& then you will begin understanding that when prejudice is the ruling-religion, then the nazis were normal, in evil.
So, really it all comes down to specific identity-forces:
Salut, Namaste, & Kaizen, eh?
_ /\ _
Capitalism is built on the notion that wealth is virtue.
If you are rich, you made good decisions and the invisible hand has guided money to your pockets. You’ve created things that contribute to the comfort/progress of society as a whole, and your reward for it is to be held above others.
If you are poor, you have not been actively contributing to society. You have instead been a drain, and the invisible hand is punishing you got this. Your inability to find meaningful ways to contribute is a vice, which should be looked down on. Ultimately, if you cannot afford to live, that is survival of the fittest, and the world is better off without you.
If you believe any of the above to be true, you are delusional scum of the earth, and you are the reason everything sucks. You’d also feel right at home with the right-wing chuds currently undoing decades of progress.
Capitalism is built on the notion that wealth is virtue.
That’s one of the excuses. Whatever period and place, there is a different ideology provided to explain the concentration of wealth.
Details here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_and_Ideology
Pretty fucking spot on imo.
In order to truly understand this, you have to tear yourself away from the Republicans and start looking at conservative ideology itself.
At the core of conservative ideology is the very American idea of “pulling oneself up by their own bootstraps.” This is essentially the idea that, no matter the circumstances of one’s birth, one can achieve anything. Historically, this was a rebellion against the classism of old Europe, which was structured around a class system. So, in that context, it was a very liberal idea. The problem comes in when you start to recognize that people are not actual born on a level playing field, financially, culturally, educationally, etc. Today, the idea that everyone can “pull themselves up by their own bootstraps,” foments the lie that we are all born into equal opportunities in life, which is demonstrably false.
So, the core of conservative ideology is based on an untruth, and it has never reconciled this. Conservatives thus blame disparities in achievement in society on lack of individual effort, and don’t take into account differences in opportunity by birth circumstances. As such, when they see people who haven’t done as well as others, they attribute that to personal failings rather than circumstantial inequalities. When you see all outcomes as a result of personal effort, you can dismiss bad outcomes as the result of a lack of effort, and thereby justify denying the less fortunate help under the notion that it is unfair to the more prosperous because it rewards those who didn’t try as hard with the same outcomes who had to work for them.
Conservative ideology is simply outdated and uninformed by modern sociological research.
modern sociological research or… basic common senses? It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that if you start with 10x as much money as everyone else in a game of monopoly you’re almost certainly going to win that game.
My ex MIL is great in a lot of ways but I think a good example of a middle income conservative person with a disdain for the poor. She personally used welfare to go to school and become a nurse but in her mind this was exceptional - welfare she thinks holds people back (just not her, somehow). She doesn’t hate the poor, she just thinks they are doing it to themselves. Because she managed to make it.
I think that’s the fundamental difference between conservative and progressive, honestly. She thinks she personally should get whatever advantage, but if someone else gets it that’s cheating, basically. Even though she was IN that situation she blames others who are.
For me (and I think most people) the life experience of being poor and homeless have me perspective and empathy for those who are in that situation now, and Is like them to get more than I did so they can get established.
Because we humans are social animals that like seeing others happy and dislike seeing others unhappy. Same goes for seeing animals.
Conservatives have convinced themselves or have been convinced by others that everyone is solely responsible for their own success. Or they pretend to believe this.
When they see pain in the world the only thought they can have is: This person did something wrong.
In reality meanwhile things aren’t so easy. People have responsibility in achieving a happy life. But there are a myriad of factors that make life easier or harder. But you all probably know that.
America was founded on the ideals of personal freedom and lack of class structure. The idea that literally ANYONE can become President was a totally unique concept in the 18th century. National leaders were either Royalty who inherited the role, or Authoritarians who grabbed the role.
Freedom should be empowering, but Conservatives weaponized it by deliberately suppressing opportunities for many, while then blaming those same people for not taking advantage of America’s unique promise
And then money got involved and nothing mattered anymore anyway
I’ve been trying to find an answer on that question myself for years. A lot of the other comments so a good job of scratching the surface but there just isn’t enough text to really explain the full concept completely. If you really want to really dig deeper, here are some books that might help. They helped me. Bottom line is it’s smart for conservatives to do this based on their end goals because it’s effective.
The All New Don’t Think of an Elephant! by George Lakoff, covers the strong father theory which is much of what’s described in other comments.
The Dictator’s Handbook by Bruce Bueno de Mesquita, talks about the principles of authoritarianism and helps understand how the authoritarian structure in nearly every major company has lead to this.
The Origins of Political Order by Francis Fukuyama, explains why stability at the cost of equality is what political machines often evolve into.
The Revenge of Power by Moisés Naím, explains how authoritarianism works and why it needs us vs them to thrive.
Bowling Alone by Robert Putnam, a good view of blame based politics, why and how it works.
Mistakes Were Made (But Not By Me) by Tavris & Aronson, helps explain why people are attracted to the conservative message.
Blackshirts and Reds by Michael Parenti, explains how capitalists exploit the view that poverty is a personal falling so they can continue wage theft and rent seeking.
The Coddling of the American Mind by Haidt & Lukianoff, a deep dive of the modern conservative mindset and helps answer how and why we got here.
Lies My Teacher Told Me by James Loewen, shows how this has been going on for longer than we’ve been alive along with the attack on education and sort of shows why that’s effective.
The Progress Paradox by Gregg Easterbrook, helps explain why “the sky is falling” narrative conservatives like to use is attractive to us.
Thank you
You’re welcome!
It’s less “hate the poor” and more “being good dogs for their wealthy masters”
You can’t hoard wealth and distribute it too.
The average republican is not super wealthy, of course, but they are manipulated and controlled by those who are.
You think the average Democrat is any different? They’re not manipulated and controlled by those who are super wealthy? Lol
And yet the democratic party remains the only one where progressives are able to have a voice and make a modicum of progress.
Also, I didn’t say anything about democrats, positive or negative, in my comment. OP was about republicans, so I commented about republicans.
I agree with most comments when applied to Temporarily Embarrassed Millionaires.
I think the ruling class (aka the rock that does not need this cope) needs the threat of homelessness (aka the hard place) to squeeze the proletariat against.
I see a lot of people answering what the Republican leadership seems to believe and do. This is very different from what the average Republican voter believes.
Let me cover just a couple issues that drive an otherwise functional person to vote Republican:
abortion. There are a shocking (and tragic) number of otherwise reasonable people who get a strong ick response to the idea of abortion. They rarely research the issue. This is an opinion so immediately visceral that they believe it is a moral law (and there are many communities that strongly reinforce this belief). I know of many folks who see the Republican corruption and the damage it’s doing, but can’t get through their anti-choice gut feeling to vote blue.
economic interest. There are a nontrivial number of people who could lose a lot of money depending on how democratic policies are implemented. The left is a fractured mess, so no particular implementation is guaranteed. But if you keep the system around, historically you won’t get harmed specifically (we all get leeched to death slowly instead). Think rent control for a family whose retirement depends on 3 rental properties. The grandkids will vote Republican to, they believe, keep Grandma solvent. (This wouldn’t be an issue if large sweeping reforms were on the table. They aren’t. Also these calculations are often vibes based, because who has this kind of data.) See all the incentives around NIMBY Democrats. Some previously union areas fall under this; globalization policies felt like they destroyed their communities.
There are more. And polling will tell you about them. No need to ask other leftists (we call this an echo chamber).
It’s not hate, it is complete and utter bullshit difference beyond whatever they need to win the next election. After that it’s simply a priority of lining the pockets if themselves and their donors
Why do Republicans hate the poor so much?
For the rich: money reduces empathy. There a a few funny studies on the matter, including one on lottery winners. Plus the very wealthy live in their own bubble.
For the poor: propaganda. Lack of education in logic, sociology, macroeconomics, human relationships. A complete education is not all math and literature and hard science.
trying everything they can to harm people who need any sort of assistance?
The power-hungry want power, control, coercion. Through media power, cronyism they allied with the ultra rich who have power and want docile workers.
The dominated Republicans are fighting the ghost of people abusing the system, afraid of change, hiding in conservatism, backing into 1930s racism. They didn’t think the powerful Republicans would cut their help, only do something about their fears.
Pretend I am rich? Like how much money am I getting back by Republicans kicking men off healthcare or destroying insurance for those who need it most. It must be alot right?
It’s not about economics: healthcare and general welfare have a net positive impact, up to the point of housing homeless people costs globally less than having them on the street.
Personal gain is really at stake only when said service is repurchased by friends of the government, e.g. medical research, police, military, roads anything can go. Helping the poor can’t really be sold. Policing them, yes.
Does money reduce empathy or is lack of empathy just a serious advantage in acumulating money?
Yes.
But foremost, money makes you an asshole, as measured with people who had little/no control over their wealth (e.g. lottery winners.)
The Prosperity Gospel is a big part. They think anyone who’s poor is doing some kind of sin to withdraw God’s grace, and therefore should be punished.
I heard they love the poor when they vote against their own interests.
They weren’t raised right.
Protestantism.
Protestantism is Christianity but Jesus is Replaced with Capitalism. If you’re rich, God has chosen you. If you’re poor you have definitely committed every sin.
To help the poor is therefore a betrayal of God.
Protestantism.
Protestantism is Christianity but Jesus is Replaced with Capitalism. If you’re rich, God has chosen you. If you’re poor you have definitely committed every sin.
To help the poor is therefore a betrayal of God.
That is very much not Protestantism. Protestantism is simply the branches of Christianity that descend from the Reformation in the 1500s, “Protesting” what they saw as corruption and even heresy in the Roman Catholic Church. Broadly speaking, Christianity falls into three major categories: the Roman Catholic Church (with the pope and whatnot), Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. Protestant churches come in many different flavors.
Most (if not all) of the most progressive and Christ-like churches are Protestant.
What you’re talking about is Prosperity Gospel. Which is completely antithetical to Christian theology, but that doesn’t stop greedy megachurch preachers and televangelists from pushing it onto ignorant people who know nothing about their own faith.
Sorry, not convinced.
All the most terrible christians I have ever had the displeasure of interacting with were Protestants
It is Evangelical Churches boosting fascist candidates in the US and my own country of Brazil.
If people want to convince me that Protestantism ISN’T authoritarian ultracapitalism in Church Clothes, they’ll have to show me something that stands stronger than the entirety of the past 10 years
Trump, Bolsonaro, all boosted by Protestants.
They pretend that its not a zero sum game but they act like it is a zero sum game.
Hatred of the poor can be found in every society and culture. It’s so pervasive, it’s ridiculous it doesn’t have a proper name. The closest thing is “classism,” but this is something different.
In my experience most poor people are their voting base who the fuck knows why
I would say the argument is that they feel they’re paying more for people who don’t deserve it. That the government and these businesses are constantly subsidizing by taking their pay cheque and handing it to people who refuse to work or decided to do drugs or making other bad life choices. The right tends to view things at an individual level whereas the left view things as a group. Both are right and wrong. If you’re paid $60,000 a year and some goes to a safe injection site, more goes to some carbon tax that nobody is really tracking, more goes to some dark slush fund nobody knows about. Over the years we all just get bitter and angry
Same reason why you hate feminism. Bigotry.
To feel better about their own pathetic life.
They want people hating trans and gay people instead.
Assassassin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I’ll just repost this comment I made on a similar question earlier: That would be because most wealthy people believe that they did something to “earn” their wealth and that poor people just need to work harder. They refuse to admit that their wealth is built off of the backs of others and a good amount of luck. This also explains a good chunk of Republican policy decisions.
Adding on to that: Republicans see the government as a zero sum entity. If they are paying money into it, they should be receiving an equivalent benefit. If someone else is receiving a benefit that they are not, that is unfair and is effectively equivalent to stealing, since that person doesn’t pay as much into the system. The primary and largely singular motivation of the Republican party is to mold the government to only serve them and increase their “ROI” for their taxes. They do not care about the societal good that social programs do, nor about the massive boon that these programs typically are for the economy in the long run. They care that the poors are getting something that they didn’t work for because they perceive themselves as paying for it personally.
Tl;dr: republicans are selfish myopic people that are absurdly bad at cost benefit analysis
danielton1@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Seriously. I hear a lot from the right that public transit, bike routes, and social programs need to be profitable or they shouldn’t exist. With no mention of the roads they drive on every day.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 1 day ago
They want toll roads too…
When you have a shit ton of money, you want everything taxed on use, not earnings.
Because you earn a lot and spend a very small percentage of that.
They view any individual that “gets” more than they personally pay in as a “taker”. Despite the entire reasons we have safety nets is statistically someone will need help.
But once no one anywhere benefits from it more than they paid in, it’s easy for the wealthy to convince us we don’t need it at all. Because it’s not benefiting anyone and has really becomes a waste.
It’s very basic manipulation.
You can’t argue “what about roads!” Because they’re argue for toll roads everywhere or a tax on actual miles driven. Don’t let them set the argument, point out how no one knows who will need it till they need it, so we all pay in and hope we’re fortunate enough to not need it. But if we do, we don’t have to die in a gutter.
Don’t tug on heart strings, explain it as risk management and they might start to see the value
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Yes to all this, but I think there is also a lot of psychopathy and innate cruelty. “Hurting people is fun!” types. You know the ones who started out as kids hurting animals and graduated to humans, but found that under the guide of “conservatism” they could do it openly and legally while fulfilling their urges.
Marthirial@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Nah, that’s what we say out loud because even though is wrong, it is not racist wrong.
America is a caste system, like in India where we all are assigned to a caste level we cannot escape. Whites, even poor ones are going to always be at the top and blacks, even rich ones, always at the bottom.
But we cannot say that out loud, so instead Whites, from the lowest form like MAGA all the way to educated ones, use terms like equity and what one or another group deserves, etc.
Republicans (mostly white and some wannabes) believe they deserve the benefits of society first and everybody else by rank of color the rest.
They don’t hate all poor people, only the ones in the wrong color.