supply side jesus.
Jesus hates American "Christians"
Submitted 5 months ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/bd6c5b08-2fa6-4fc7-a108-cd6bdcabfe6b.jpeg
Comments
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 5 months ago
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
yeah, in jesus’s image, right. I wonder if jesus gave a fuck about other people…
pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 5 months ago
I’m an atheist, but I would probably guess that those type of Christians aren’t real Christians at all. It seems to be common in America for people to associate “traditional family values” with Christianity. Which very basically translates to racism and homophobia. So they hide behind Christianity like they’re holyier then thou. These people aren’t Christians, their bigots with disassociative disorders.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 5 months ago
It’s like the challenge was how to hold in one’s mind “being Christian” and simultaneously going down a checklist of actions and words listed as defining Christianity and doing the exact opposite. Though, By 320 CE, that was the status quo.
Jesus’s whole way at talking truth to power was to acknowledge and show compassion for those marginalized and hated by the Romans and the Pharisees. His main problem with the Pharisees was literally the hypocrisy of them saying they follow the laws of the religion, and then not doing any of that. It was dangerous to call them hypocrites due to their political power.
Sound familiar yet?
xav@programming.dev 5 months ago
I don’t agree when you say “racism and homophobia”. American Christian values are racism and homophobia and misogyny.
Karl@literature.cafe 5 months ago
I only realised this after I was well past my “Angry Atheist” phase. There are good verses in the Bible and there are also bad verses. Most of the Christians cherry pick. How they cherry pick depends on who they are. In my opinion, there aren’t any real or fake christians. There’s only good christians and bad christians.
GreenShimada@lemmy.world 5 months ago
The toxic manipulation of how American Evangelical churches teach the Bible is to intentionally remove context and just point to a through-line of whatever supports the topic of the week. The same out of context OT verse can mean 30 different things to these people.
MehBlah@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Oh I was raised by bigots. Both full narcissists. Its why democrat and republican mean nothing to me. My democrat dad switched to a republican without changing one racist bigoted opinion. Made sure everyone knew how generous he was. Only he was generous when no one was around to see. Then he was cruel and mean. When I stopped being his victim he disowned me. Of all those christians he was hanging around ninety percent of them were just like him. They were incrediblly mean to people and always justified it using the bible. If their afterlife were a real thing then they wouldn’t be that way. The reason why they can be that way is that they know its all a scam. If jesus ever existed that jewish dude wouldn’t be someone they cared for.
I long for the day they are taxed for their donations and then we will see how christian they are. Whats left might be worthy of my repsect. But I doubt it.
null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
Yeah so I was raised in a reasonably devout household, and I’ve never really been able to resolve this.
Its related to the fundamental attribution error - we judge others by their actions but ourselves by intentions. Except its more than that because religion creates this us vs them dynamic, where anyone who is “us” has good intentions, but anyone who is them does not.
Let’s suppose a “good” person is one who performs acts of altruism, has integrity, and a high level of emptiness self awareness.
In my experience these “good” people are a small part of any group. Any race, creed, city, social group, whatever.
With that in mind, I don’t think religion makes people good - rather its a system of beliefs that allows people to perceive themselves and their friends as good.
Really I think this explains why religion is so prevalent. Ultimately being “good” isn’t a very good gig. Imagine doing destitute because you’ve spent your life performing acts of altruism. OTOH if it merely allows one to form a cohesive group of “good” people, i can see how that would be perpetuated.
anugeshtu@lemmy.world 5 months ago
It’s almost like those words mean exactly the opposite. Like with Doublespeak.
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
You can be all of those things and be Christian.
Valorie12@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Literally so hard this. I was raised by christians and they were disappointed when I turned out to not be a christian adult. I literally tried to point out the hypocrisy of them teaching me to always treat others with respect and to “do unto others as you would have them do unto you” but being hardcore right-wingers and trump supporters, being racists af and hating trans and queer people. They still don’t seem to get it.
LeFantome@programming.dev 5 months ago
“If Jesus was here, he would join the front lines”, my incredibly Catholic relative that needs to re-read the sermon on the mount.
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
After decades of arguments, the best I managed was slightly changing the language used. Now around me my dad calls black and brown people Democrats instead of slurs. Thinks he’s damn clever too.
oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
Man, I think I was an atheist for years before I actually knew it. I disagreed with several things without even noticing for a long time. I’d skip going to church, (hell I would show up sometimes for the beginning and leave just so people would know they saw me that day). I hated LGBT people for a good chunk of it. That kinda stopped after I met some.
Then when someone close to me came out as trans, I didn’t even blink or feel weird about it. But the old beliefs still kinda hovered there for a while still.
That shit is hard to shake when it’s indoctrinated as bad as it was, mostly because of the fact that the fear of hell is reeeeal. It took a movie bringing up the fact that something that I believed was original to the Bible has been around well before it got put into the Bible. That finally shattered holding onto it, and everything else has been catching up ever since.
I’m finally becoming someone I’m not ashamed of.
That started 9 years ago. I still have a group of friends to get back to that tolerate me back then somehow and I need to reintroduce the new me.
Bennyboybumberchums@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Then when someone close to me came out as trans, I didn’t even blink or feel weird about it.
Calling bullshit on that, mate. Anything out of the ordinary, you are going to be curious about. People blink and feel weird when someone swaps playstation for xbox. If you had said that you didnt hate them just because, that would fine. But this “I totally didnt blink at something Im not used to” is a cheap virtue signal.
I dont care who you are, or what the issue is. If some suddenly isnt who you thought they were in some way, youre going to blink. Youre going to have questions. Wanting to understand things isnt bad. And honestly utterly fucking sick of every single person on the internet pretending that they arent the same human being that the rest of us are. If nothing else, youd at the very least be worried about them because of all the stories you hear about shitty parents disowning their kids for being LGBT. But not you, you didnt even blink…
oopsgodisdeadmybad@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
And honestly utterly fucking sick of every single person on the internet pretending that they arent the same human being that the rest of us are
I don’t even know what this part means.
As for the rest of it, maybe I’m not using the word “blink” the same way. Your way is probably more correct. I was using a more substantial version than “blink” seems to mean, but maybe that’s just a regional or friend/family group difference.
But for reference, when I hear it used, it’s more in a sense of being shocked to the point of just kinda a brief mental shutdown, during which one would just blink while they process.
That’s just how I’ve heard it used, but on its face it does sound like it should be a much more minor reaction.
In which case, yes, I did blink. But if I had heard it a couple years before that, I would have had a much bigger reaction. Plus the fact that it was becoming more obvious shortly before they came out.
Either way my point was that at that point in my life I was coming out of religion enough that my reaction was more immediately supportive of my sibling rather than reacting negatively toward them in favor of the religious rules I had before.
lunatique@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
I’m not even a Christian and even I know Jesus wouldn’t hate anyone let alone CHRISTIANS, even if they are ignorant. But this post is even more ignorant
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
You don’t know Jesus. Man was a savage. Cursed a fig tree for no reason. Hates money changers.
lunatique@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Ignorant peasy, Jesus isn’t even mentioned until the New Testament and had nothing to do with Genesis, so your witty remark falls flat.
zebidiah@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
I’ve often wondered if I would have grown up to be as vehemently atheist if I had grown up in a place without american “christians”
Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Don’t worry. There’s plenty of other diseased religions in other areas!
InfiniteHench@lemmy.world 5 months ago
This was one of the fundamental experiences of whiplash that shot me straight out of the Christian community. Giant pile of child-fucking hypocrites.
beejboytyson@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Meh for me it was the child fucking.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Social media, that’s why. The brain being cooked in dopamine all the time by algorithm and fake news fries the brain. People forgot how to be nice.
Bennyboybumberchums@lemmy.world 5 months ago
No one forgot how to be nice. They just dont have to be online, because they know they can get away with being a cunt. Social media has outed a lot of people for being cowards.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 5 months ago
There are anecdotes of people changing for the worse. I remember a poster who said his parents became Trump supporting bigots, even though growing up they taught OP not to be racist.
its_kim_love@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Grew up in the south before social media existed. It’s the cause of a lot of problems, but this one predates it by a wide margin. It definitely made it worse, but there is no greater hate than Christian love.
PearOfJudes@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Most Christians (I say most because I have met some good ones) only speak out on the bad things the bible says (eg anti gay) and do nothing on what Jesus says about rich people (“its harder for rich people to enter heaven than a camel through the eye of a needle” etc.) Jesus literally told so many parables of old rich men who couldn’t give up there wealth to worship Jesus, and for being the head of such a largely hateful group, actually didn’t say anything bad against gay people, abortion, trans people and was in fact welcoming of gentiles (Equivalent to immigrant or foreigners to his audience.)
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I was “raised Christian.” The top reasons I despise religion is the a) hypocrisy from top to bottom, b) a person can go through life wrecking others others in ways that may be devastating, permanent, and/or traumatic that they have to live with forever and are supposed to just accept it like some mind of lesson from god, yet the person who does all the damage gets to go to heaven if the ask for forgiveness in just the right way.
Yeah, the whole “love each other and forgive everything” lessons of my youth have been replaced by “fuck you, I’m getting mine” christians.
MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 5 months ago
You need to read your Bible more often if you think you’re the first person to have noticed that.
I recommend Isaiah 30:8-17.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Lol, the Bible is full of contradictions that are all rationalized and interpreted by the wants of the individual and leader. No desire to dig into that any more than I already have.
CatDogL0ver@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Actually American Americans are the “Pharisees”. They just hate to be called to be called out by Jesus.
They act like Pharisees. They talk like Pharisees. I hope they will be judged like Pharisees.
MacNCheezus@lemmy.today 5 months ago
Of course, everyone will be judged eventually. Pretty sure it says that in the Bible too.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Does anyone actually think these pseudochristians are actually pure in any way?
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 5 months ago
point B was my favorite part of The Brothers Karamazov.
Pacattack57@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Ya you nailed it. Good people are punished and bad people rewarded.
nosuchanon@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Yeah, the whole “love each other and forgive everything” lessons of my youth have been replaced by “fuck you, I’m getting mine” christians.
Ah yes, the Boomer Christians.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Helps if you read it as “care about others[immediate friends and neighbors]” not “care about others[foreigners, minorities, and other faiths]”
Ministers love to talk about charity when they’re passing around the collection plate. It never comes up on tax day.
Tartas1995@discuss.tchncs.de 5 months ago
That is a good point while honestly I can’t think of a vague group like “others” without thinking of including my e.g. mom and also a random person from who knows where. We are brothers and sisters. And I don’t understand how i could have learn anything else from Jesus’ teachings and I am now a non believer.
undergroundoverground@lemmy.world 5 months ago
This is almost exactly what brought me out of christianity. I was institutionalised into it from birth. So, I always just glossed over the most obvious problems that people would bring up. If anything, it entrenched me further.
However, I started realising that I had more love and compassion for people than, not just christians, god claims to have, by their own admission.
How can I love a stranger than an all loving God?
It was all downhill from there.
mrmanager@lemmy.today 5 months ago
Not those others! :)
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 5 months ago
“The others” were meant to “those who deserving”.
sobchak@programming.dev 5 months ago
They often operate on the “just-world fallacy” too. I.e. if people are poor, starving, arrested, deported, raped, it’s because they deserve it.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 5 months ago
But if something bad happens to them, it’s because God is “testing them.”
shane@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Maybe evangelicals who preach the prosperity gospel believe in “just world”? However in the Book of Job it is made pretty clear that doing everything God asks of you doesn’t help you at all, and might even be a reason that you get shit on. Jesus repeatedly says that his kingdom is not on earth. Anyway…
Bosht@lemmy.world 5 months ago
‘Its all part of gods plan sweetie’. Had my mom feed me this line when I wanted to help a homeless person
nomy@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
“Yeah part of Gods plan is me helping him Mother. Now be a good woman and obey like the book says you should.”
camelbeard@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Sometimes I wish I could do that, just ignore all logic and believe what you want.
So those people starving in Africa? Oh no God’s plan.
People getting killed in Gaza? Also God’s plan
That Kirk guy getting shot? Evil left, nothing to do with God.
Immigrants trying to find a better life in a different country? The worst people, nothing to do with God.
Aunt Marget died of cancer? Poor Marget, she was just unlucky,
It did not help she had no health insurance? No thats not it, that’s communism
elbiter@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Christianity is OK, until it interferes with a billionaire’s interest…
ghosthacked@lemmy.wtf 5 months ago
This is kind of like game of thrones when the lannisters aligned with the church. Inevitably, the fanatics try to seize power.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 months ago
But, in GoT, the Lannisters were the fanatics
njordomir@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Last night’s Southpark kind of hinted at this topic a little bit. I’m curious to see where they take it, but I won’t post any spoilers here because I don’t know who has seen it.
jve@lemmy.world 5 months ago
kind of hinted
lol.
I love South Park, but it’s about as subtle as a freight train.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Reminds me of being a pastor’s son at ~5 and asking the Sunday School teacher if Satan could be saved, since God wants everyone saved. I was sincere–it troubled me that there was a creature that was without hope. Now I understand I should be happy that fucker is burning eternally. He should’ve never messed with God! That’s just normal adult stuff! You live and learn!
AquaTofana@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Holy shit, I’m not religious at all, but 5 year old u/potoooooooo is the CUTEST fucking thing.
Ugh, children really are innocent/wholesome, and its the adults around them that inject poisonous ass ideas into their minds.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 months ago
Lucifer never even actually kills anyone in the Bible, whereas Yahweh commits literal genocide on multiple occasions.
It should also be noted that the serpent never even told Eve that she should eat the fruit, just that she COULD.
Side note that always puzzled me… 1) why would God create a tree that has fruit that teaches you the difference between good and evil? 2) why would Jesus put this tree in the garden in the first place? 3) why would you ever think that the people who have no concept of right and wrong (before eating the fruit) are going to be able to resist it? And finally, 4) WHY IS KNOWING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GOOD AND BAD A BAD THING??M
It’s all just so fucking idiotic that it hurts my brain.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 5 months ago
If we believe that the various Satans (in the original Hebrew, literally “adversary,” and rendered without the definite article so there are probably multiples of them) are in fact one and the same with the Devil (singular), this link-up doesn’t even occur until the Book of Revelation which is firmly a new testament thing and wholly unsupported by any of the old testament or ancient Hebrew sources from which it’s derived. Making all the assumptions required on basis that this is so, then whoever he was killed a lot of people in Revelation. But not until then.
In old Hebrew tradition, the Satans are sort of the prosecuting attorneys for god. They work for him in order to tempt the faith and righteousness of various people. Several mortal people are also given the moniker of “Satans” when they’re working against the interests of god or various other individuals.
Meanwhile, the notion that Lucifer is also one and the same with the Devil or any kind of Satan is a much later interpolation made when the church(es) of the era wanted to insert a bogeyman into their religion and they needed a justification for it, some time in the AD 200s. Lucifer is identified as the king of Babylon, a mortal, when he has attracted god’s ire in his sole appearance in Isaiah 14. The situation has become so warped that his name was finally removed in the New International Version of the bible and he’s simply referred to as the “morning star, son of the dawn.” (Isaiah 14:12, if you want to go have a look.)
Modern pontificates will also insist that the king of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is also somehow the Devil, which is dubious. Even if he were, and god were speaking allegorically for precisely half of his rant as we are thus demanded to believe, god smokes him at the end of the passage anyway so it’s a moot point.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 5 months ago
The biggest one for me was, “Why doesn’t he want them to know they’re naked?”
He gets all pissy because Satan ruins his perverted, non-consensual peep-fest and decides to curse literally everything for all time. Fucking gross.
survirtual@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Buddhism has a more Christian example of Christ-like behavior concerning a “living being Satan”. That is to say, if “living being Jesus” was real, he would be a Bodhisattva, perhaps akin to Kṣitigarbha.
In the story, Bodhisattva Kṣitigarbha vowed:
“Until the hells are empty, I will not become a Buddha.
Only when all sentient beings are saved will I attain enlightenment.”
It is a vow to never abandon any being regardless of their state.
I like that idea. Boundless love and compassion doesn’t stop at the bounds of some hell. It is boundless. It has boundless time, so it will spend an eternity reaching out to even cyclic hells.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Nice. I like 99% of what I’ve encountered from Buddhism.
njordomir@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m a Buddatheist who grew up with both cultural Catholicism and later Christian Evangelicism.
I like how this hints at the nature of the self. If I leave someone behind am I not also leaving myself behind?
For me, ethical acts are those that increase the freedom of the self and others. We all suffer. That’s a fact of life. If we dissolve our concept of the self and acknowledge our link to others and the world itself we can see ourselves more as threads going through human experience. If we are kind to ourselves and “others”, we have a better chance at reducing that suffering.
Imagine the time a stranger forgot their wallet and you paid for their coffee. A version of that experience could still exist in that person’s mind long after you die. It could get blended with other experiences and reinterpreted. It could be told as a story to a friend who was inspired by the act. The cascading effects of that person being properly caffeinated on that day could have world changing effects. In a similar way, I carry the shared experiences of my own ancestors and even strangers who have shared their stories with me. They are still alive as a small part of me because my true self is humanity or even some animating life force of the universe or something like that and the name that people call me just refers to the limited perspective and incomplete view I have of existence. Essentially I see existence as blinders limiting my perspective like a race horse, but the true self is a satellite view of the track. When I act, I do so based not only on my experience, but the collective experience of every perspective and experience that has been conveyed to me in every way, but I am still one human body, in physical space, subject to time. I hope that when I die, those blinders will be lifted and I’ll exist as pure conscious perception of everything that ever was is and will be. Able to see through anyone’s eyes, in any time. To feel any and every feeling felt my an animal or human. To view the entirety of existence as a completed masterpiece from outside time itself.
You can probably see why I like the Buddhists.
I find that when you acknowledge the interconnection of things compassion becomes easier.
I hope that people rediscover that within themselves and others.
scala@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Of course! Because heaven and hell are made up and facts don’t matter!
Aneb@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I literally told my mom that I was affected by doge spending cuts in multiple ways that make my current life unmaintainable. I can’t afford a 400% in my insurance premium. I use buses and doge cut the grant to my city that kept them fully operational; my city cut routes and reduced buses on the routes they tried to keep on top of freezing the wage for their workers for 4 years of the worst inflation America will see. And she’s just like “I’ll vote for Trump again, at least he is not a woman”
Ek-Hou-Van-Braai@piefed.social 5 months ago
How is this a shitpost?
ZkhqrD5o@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m European. My mother tried to get me into Christianity. When I was 7 or 8 I asked “If God created everything, then who created God?” I got no answer, ever since that moment, I didn’t want to be religious. My mother tried until I was 14. It failed.
Also, I find american Christians weird. They twist and contort Christianity into something to suit their ideological needs, racism, homophobia, capitalism, nationalism, unilateralism, etc.
tomi000@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Christianity (and most religions) always has been a way for people to cope with their fears and guilt. ‘what happens after we die?’ -> ‘its heaven dont worry’. ‘Am I a bad person?’ -> ‘no Jesus died for you dont worry fam’
MelodiousFunk@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
What’s even weirder is being raised by Christians, taught to hate the blacks and mistrust the Jews (using the usual inappropriate slurs at every opportunity), never going to church outside of a few Easters, and growing up slowly learning that your parents were full of shit and they never actually read the book they said was so super important.
Nobody@anarchist.nexus 5 months ago
Jesus was a manual laborer who became homeless to travel and preach his message. He made a point to spend time with lepers and the dregs of society, tax collectors being the worse of them all, because they served the occupying army.
His message was for everyone to love each other. It wasn’t open to interpretation. He made no exceptions. The less fortunate and oppressed were even more deserving of love and support from individuals and from the community.
Raiderkev@lemmy.world 5 months ago
South Park just tackled this very issue. Don’t worry, Jesus is a chud now
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net 5 months ago
It sounds like all the positive things Christians say about themselves for are just marketing
funkajunk@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Ain’t no love like Christian hate!
FenrirIII@lemmy.world 5 months ago
And my mother wonders why I’m agnostic
Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 5 months ago
It’s not that you’re not supposed to care, it’s that you’re supposed to despise with blood thirsty hatred the out group, and take pleasure in their suffering.
MAGA christians are fucking evil. I’ve experienced a few of these people firsthand. They’re cruel as fuck to their core.
itisileclerk@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I am sorry but Americans are not Christians. I am atheist since I was born, never beleived but I am living in Christian country (ortodox) and what I am seeing, Americans are Christians only in self proclamation. Nothing in Protestant churches (they are not even that) is Christian. It’s pure transactional, and unhuman at it’s core. And they are lucky that Jesus doesen’t exist because they would burn in hell (together with me as an atheist). So, in a nutshel, American christians are atheists that use religion for justifying all those sins that they are not supposed to make. And this is the ugly truth.