The question is designed to be as divisive as possible. It categorizes large swathes of people into just 2 groups - man or bear. The man group contains mansplainers, but it also contains regular people who simply view humanity as naturally altruistic. The bear group contains people with concerns about men overpowering women, but also contains people who earnestly believe that most if not all men will try to do it if given the chance.
The problem is that people either are unable to or unwilling to acknowledge that these categories are not monolithic. And in claiming that all people in the man group are incels, you are inadvertently insulting everyone in that group. Likewise, in claiming that all people in the bear group are misandrists, you are inadvertently dismissing everyone in that group.
It is not productive to make claims about people based only on their answer to the question. In fact, it appears to be entirely the intention of the question to divide even rational people by exploiting the general human inability to see subgroups within larger categories
Neato@ttrpg.network 6 months ago
The number of people either too dense or too willfully misogynistic to understand what this is about is depressing.
If you’re arguing bear statistics or saying “not all men” or decrying misandry, then you’ve totally missed the point. If you are doing it intentionally, you’re the type of men women would choose the bear over.
The fact that anyone would choose a dangerous animal over a random man is an indictment against the culture surrounding male privilege and should spark introspection and change. Arguments against this is just ignoring women and solidifies the decision that the bear is better.
STRIKINGdebate2@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Honestly, no matter what side of the debate you are on its still dystopian to think that women would actually think to go to a bear over a random man when faced with the choice.
I am being introspective about this though. We created a culture of fear. A lot of it is through the consequences of rape culture and I think a large part is through an unhealthy about of true crime that’s being made. Constantly blasting worse case scenarios into people’s heads. I dunno, I just despise how we all just accepted not to trust one another and it seems like we’ve all just accepted that this to way to be about it. I just see it as a example of the alienation being pushed by capitalism.
It’s makes me a little mad tbh. Being perfectly honest it should make everyone mad. Like tbh I still think going with a random guy is the correct answer to this but we all should come together, look at this whole situation and realise the dystopian implications of this.
Pronell@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yes! Thank you!
Does it hurt that women feel that way? Of course it does, so let’s work to be better so that random people can trust each other!
Angrily lashing out at the women who are pondering the benefits of a bear isn’t gonna help.
Be someone a woman would feel safe to be around. Call it out when those around you fail that test.
Create that safer environment. It isn’t impossible.
ChocoboRocket@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I totally understand why women would pick bear, as bear society doesn’t bend over backwards to victimize women.
Most power structures cater to the people who abuse power, police, church, courts etc all tend to go crazy easy on men who abuse women.
Republicans want to take away women’s rights/independence, police who assault women are often protected and don’t face consequences, and most religions literally view women as a subspecies that serve men.
Maybe the average man is totally normal and helpful, but the history of violence between men and women is like 98% men killing women with heaps of Rape, confinement, physical/mental abuse etc.
The worst any Bear could do is kill someone in 1-2 minutes.
It’s also incredibly loaded in that being alone in the woods with a bear is “natural” and being alone in the woods with a strange man already sounds like a horror movie plot/murder news story.
There’s also the constant “stranger danger” fear women will pretty much always experience because men can pretty consistently and easily overpower most women. All women seem to know at least one or more women who have been sexually assaulted, or had their drink spiked etc, so it’s not some obsession with crime shows or scary movies driving this fear.
Answer ratios would probably change depending on the area, would women be less inclined to pick bear if they were in a library instead of the woods because it’s unnatural for a bear to be in that environment?
Neato@ttrpg.network 6 months ago
I agree totally with the first sentiment but I don’t think the recent prevalence of True Crime media really plays into it at all. This is not a new thing. Women have been making these risk assessment decisions for generations in the modern age. Girls are taught this kind of thing with how to protect themselves at a young age.
This is primarily a cultural issue and it won’t change unless the majority of people propagating (intentionally or not) realize what’s happening and work to change.
driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 6 months ago
Are people arguing statistics about it? Like how many women are killed by bears every year compared to men? Lmao, they’re not even close.
butter@midwest.social 6 months ago
I’ve seen one video on the subject that my wife showed me, then I had a conversation with my wife about it.
When you’re looking at statistics, women attacked by bears per year vs women attacked by men per year, it’s not taking into account the fact that 99% of women don’t get into situations where they are near bears. Most women (and men) don’t go hiking in bear populated woods frequently. Like how the overall odds of getting struck by lightning is low, but some people are struck 8 times are survive.
The better statistic for this argument is that a man is more likely going to kill you in an encounter, should it escalate. I didn’t fact check this, but I’ll take this video at it’s word.
Mango@lemmy.world 6 months ago
How often are you near a bear? How many bears have you attacked or wronged? Do you wonder how a bear might react if it understood English and you talked about it like you talk about men?
slowwooderrunsdeep@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s also amazing how people can have this argument in one thread and then go to another thread and leave a comment that just says “ACAB”.
You don’t trust cops? Why not? Because of a few bad apples?
Sounds like you get it…
Letstakealook@lemm.ee 6 months ago
That argument doesn’t hold water. One is an immutable characteristic, and the other is a career choice. A career that filters for certain personalities.
Drusas@kbin.run 6 months ago
The idea is that ACAB because one bad apple spoils the bunch. So yeah. You're missing the point of the idiom you are using.
Mango@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The bad apples are organized and lead by other bad apples and actively weed out any potential good apples who wouldn’t have a snowflakes’s chance in hell at accomplishing change anyhow. How do you think corruption works?
newthrowaway20@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This whole thing is just another way of putting men against women.
Neato@ttrpg.network 6 months ago
Men having to listen to women and be confronted with reality and the harms their gender and society are actively causing is NOT pitting people against each other. Women don’t want to fight and ostracize men. They want to be safe FROM men.
If you see this discussion and feel defensive, that’s your brain trying to tell you something’s wrong and you should probably analyze why you feel like you are being attacked.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 months ago
That’s funny. I’m finding it brings me closer to the women to understand them better.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
If this is pushing women away from you then sit down and think about why that might be.
platypus_plumba@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I would rather be in the forest with a Chutulu than a woman. It’s true because I said it on the internet.
Do you really think given the REAL choice women would be that stupid? This is insulting the intelligence of women. Any rational person would chose to be with another person than a wild animal.
I can’t believe we’re even taking this poll seriously. Look, I’m all in for women’s rights but these are just unbearable (ha) levels of stupidity.
Honestly, what the fuck is happening to society, this is fucking sickening. Yes, we need to improve as a society. No, women would not really choose the wild bear, it’s a fucking internet poll, not reality. Fuck.
Neato@ttrpg.network 6 months ago
You fit the description of my first sentence in my previous comment.
Mango@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No. The bear choice is misandry clean and clear. The men who don’t like the idea of misandry are just reacting the same way as anyone when you give them a label and call them bad for it.
I’m sure there’s some bear people who are just cool with bears and whatnot or maybe would just rather be alone.
pachrist@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Nah, the choice is between a being that will likely leave you alone and one that likely won’t. Most people who aren’t seeking contact want to be left alone. Interestingly enough, most bears want to be left alone too. As people, we need to allow others the distance and boundaries they want. The best way to befriend someone is to make them feel comfortable around you. Space and respect are important.
If a woman prefers the bear, maybe consider treating her like one. Treat her with respect, don’t make sudden movements, give her space, don’t mess with her cubs, and don’t pressure her into going to a local bar with a really neat vibe.