Jesus, what a stupid fucking hill to die on. Republicans never cease to amaze and appall.
Republicans are pulling out all the stops to reverse EV adoption
Submitted 6 months ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theverge.com/2024/5/6/24150041/ev-epa-clean-air-emissions-lawsuit-republicans-tax-credit
Comments
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Seasoned_Greetings@lemm.ee 6 months ago
If only they actually would die on that hill. They won’t, because they’ve conditioned their base to support them no matter what. Instead, they’ll rot the hill and move on to the next once the one they’re on can’t be salvaged.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Yeah, I don’t get it. I understand wanting to reduce or eliminate subsidies (they’re just a cash handout to dealers and manufacturers imo), but there’s no logical reason to be against EVs.
Assman@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
they’re just a cash handout to dealers and manufacturers imo
The US government subsidized $750B for the oil industry in 2022. The EV tax credit amount to peanuts compared to that. If you want a green energy and green transportation industry in the US, subsidies are absolutely necessary.
Etterra@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Their oil interest overlords are giving them their marching orders; it has nothing to do with logic (as usual) and everything to do with greed.
Resonosity@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Don’t forget that subsidies also swing in the other direction to fossil fuels companies. If we want to eliminate subsidies, then why not for both players so the playing field is even again? Otherwise, giving EVs subsidies might actually level the playing field more than not.
Treczoks@lemmy.world 6 months ago
but there’s no logical reason to be against EVs.
There is, if you get paid by the Koch mafia.
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
There’s actually a really good logical reason to be against EV cars: they’re cars.
That said, there’s no good reason to be opposed to them in favor of ICE cars
FireRetardant@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Here is my reasonable argument against EVs. EVs only really solve the emissions part of the equation. They dont solve the massive amounts of paved surface, private ownership of thousands of pounds of steel and plastic, they still use massive amounts of energy to move that steel and plastic abd building cities for cars is largely ineffecient.
We could do a lot more for the environment than EVs. Id rather see their subsidies go to things like electrified transit, cycling infrastructure or walkability improvements.
AA5B@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There’s already a solid market for used cars, unless you mean EVs, so no use for an incentive there.
The point of an incentive is a temporary tool to accelerate the transition to less polluting technology. While EVs are new they naturally are more expensive, there’s temptation to import from cheaper countries, but the incentive makes them less expensive to buy, plus incents growth of local industry. I’d also vote to phase out the incentive after that transition has happened: fossil fuel incentives should have been gone half a century ago.
If you’re specifically talking the used EV market, the most important factor is time. The more new EVs there are, the better the used EV market will be in a few years. It doesn’t help to try to increase sales of used EVs when there are so few. If you are looking used, please be patient: let’s do what we can to accelerate the growth of new EVs, and one of the benefits will be a strong used market in a gpfew years
theyoyomaster@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There is a logical reason to be against forced adoption before the technology matures. For a lot of the country they are not a viable replacement for ICE yet. They’re improving, but not as fast as ICEs are being phased out and that leaves a lot of places where a dwindling used market will be the only option for many people.
mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Are we in a “free market” are we not? The answer is “depends on what lobbyists wants.”
TheDubz87@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Free market goes to the highest bidder.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Free for me and not for thee.
mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Might as well be the offical preamble of the Constitution.
rusticus@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Lol without all the subsidies gas would be $12/gallon. And burning fossil fuels (40% is automotive) kills more than 250,000 Americans per year. Whats the cost of a human life brah?
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
I think they’re more commenting on how the supposedly “free market” champions constantly interfere with the market when it suits their agenda
barsquid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Whats the cost of a human life brah?
That depends on if grandma is being evaluated by an Obama Death Panel (life is precious and invaluable) or by the stock market in 2020 (she has, what, a couple years left anyway, let her die).
mightyfoolish@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yes, that’s the point. These politicians interfere and meddle and cry “free market” when it is convenient for them.
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Free market involves pluralism of systems and distribution of power as important preconditions. Lobbyism requires monoculture of systems and power being sufficiently centralized to be controllable.
paf0@lemmy.world 6 months ago
To play devil’s advocate for a moment, is it really a free market if we are incentivizing one technology over another?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Are we in a “free market” or we not?
Not.
QuarterSwede@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s too late. We’ve already hit the tipping point. Many of my neighbors have EVs now. They’re everywhere in my city and I’m not in a major city. They’re just plain better cars and now people know it. It’s too late.
jballs@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Never underestimate the Republican ability to turn things into a culture war. My very conservative neighbor has an F-150 Lightning that his work provides him. When he first got it, he loved it and drove it everywhere. He truly seemed to believe that EVs were a better way to drive.
Then a few months ago he started making comments from the Fox News bubble. Things like, “the power grid just can’t support all these EVS” and “these EVs are so heavy that they’re destroying our roads” (note he has one child, and he bought his wife a 5,800 lb Yukon, so don’t tell me he honestly cares about vehicle weight).
Recently he bought a new ICE vehicle (a Bronco). I truly believe that he was this close to accepting that EVs have many advantages over ICE vehicles, but then he consumed enough right wing news to prevent him from making the switch long term.
slaacaa@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Many decades ago, the US decimated parts of cities and a lot of railway infrastructure to make way for cars. It’s never too late to ruin something
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Abortions were pretty popular for awhile too but the GOP still uh finds a way. Never underestimate the power of angry idiots in large numbers. Have you seen who is a serious contender for the presidency this year?
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Congratulations, Elon. This is who you hitched your ugly Cybertruck wagon to.
poke@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Going by the recent firings, I’d wager he’s in on it.
buzz86us@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’d be game to buy one once he can figure out how to build the damn things at sufficient scale
PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
This is why I can’t be friends with conservatives of any degree. People always want to say “it’s just politics,” but it has gone beyond that for so fucking long that it’s not even a discussion I’m willing to have anymore.
Phegan@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Agreed. Conservatives bring politics into every aspect of their life. You can’t have more than a few moments without them making some culture war comment.
phdepressed@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Politics were and have always been personal.
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
All that we want to do is see to it that we live another 100 years is that so god damn polarizing?!?!
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 6 months ago
But what if global warming is a hoax and we improve things for no reason?! /s
Beetlejuice001@lemmy.wtf 6 months ago
It’s all about the Petrodollar and America retaining the worlds reserve currency
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 6 months ago
In a statement, Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda.”
If you look up the 10 most “Made in America” cars, the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X , which are all EVs, and they are at near 100% (or 100% for some models). There isn’t another American car brand on the list. So when Coleman is talking about sacrificing American auto workers, who’s he talking about? A car that is 40% American because all the parts are made in China or Mexico and there’s some final assembly done in the USA?
P.S. Musk is an idiot, though I’m not sure that needs to be said anymore as its so obvious.
jballs@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
the top 4 slots by a huge margin are Tesla Model 3,Y,S,X
Is that true? I saw recently that 95% of Tesla’s cars are the Model Y. I assume a huge chunk of the remaining 5% is the Model 3, leaving very few Model S and X cars on the road. I’d be very surprised to hear that either one of them is in the top 4 best selling American made cars.
phoneymouse@lemmy.world 6 months ago
What’s the plan if we run out of oil? I mean seriously, it’s gonna happen eventually. Even if you want to ignore the science on climate change, you can’t ignore basic laws of the universe that oil is a finite resource. If we don’t have a plan for when it runs out, there will be utter chaos.
ArbitraryValue@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
There’s not going to be a moment when the world suddenly goes from having oil to having no oil. There are oil reserves that are relatively cheap and easy to extract, and there are other, very large reserves that are currently so difficult and expensive to extract that doing so isn’t profitable. As the easy oil gradually runs out, the supply drops, the price rises, and sources of oil that were not profitable at the old price become profitable. This maintains the supply of oil and stabilizes the price.
It’s true that the amount of oil is in principle finite, but that limitation isn’t really relevant on the timescales we’re talking about.
sub_ubi@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
If we keep burning oil then our civilization won’t have to worry about it at all, whatever’s left will be for Immortan Joe
MonkderDritte@feddit.de 6 months ago
So there are politicans who really believe that climate change is a conspiracy? Or they just don’t care for the future?
Wahots@pawb.social 6 months ago
Inb4 “both parties are the same”.
While I hate stuff like these rollbacks, we are already starting to see EVs save people money on gas and service, and they are stupidly fast compared to ICE counterparts. That’s something Americans of all stripes can get behind.
Once I tried an ebike, I realized I never wanted to go back to gas engines. So fast, so much torque, and pennies to charge vs $70 gas tanks at Costco (even more at a normal gas station). It just makes economic sense to run PEVs in all major urban areas in addition to mass transit.
With traffic and some protected bike lanes, even a conventional bike can almost beat a car in a 7-14 mile drive in my city. An ebike makes it even easier.
BurnSquirrel@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Surely the oil and energy companies have their own investments into renewables. I can’t imagine why Rs would die on this hill except for their little culture war.
geoff@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I like it much better when Republicans stick to pushing for things that are just useless rather than destructive.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
republicans are raping the planet.
rusticus@lemm.ee 6 months ago
You misspelled Russians.
I take that back, you spelled Russians correctly.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The cybertruck can go, sure, but let the rest be
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Fuck them
Bobmighty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Why wouldn’t they? They are, after all, the craven whores who thirst for corporate donor cock.
Kalysta@lemm.ee 6 months ago
This is republican assholes wanting to protect their oil wealth. Has nothing to do with workers.
Imagine actively destroying the place your kids live to get more money. They’re psychopaths
crystalmerchant@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Look up thos congresspersons’ donor history
Bet my bottom dollar they’re getting donations from groups that tie back to the auto industry
Get the fucking money out of politics
BigMacHole@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Have they tried helping Lower Gas Prices or are they just trying to make owning EVs Illegal like TRUE Small Government, Free Market Leaders would?
very_well_lost@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Is this why Elon is working so hard to run Tesla into the ground? 5d chess, something something…
Facebones@reddthat.com 6 months ago
Cmon go so far right you hit the left and start advocating for public transit and improved mixed use infrastructure to “own the libs”
boatsnhos931@lemmy.world 6 months ago
EVs are being built to save the car industry not the planet. I’ll probably get an electric vehicle once the kinks get worked out but I know how the materials are acquired and what happens when the batteries can’t hold a charge. It’s a baby step but definitely shouldn’t be stopped from evolving.
uis@lemm.ee 6 months ago
A car still a car. Fuck cars. Yes, EVs too.
ImWaitingForRetcons@lemm.ee 6 months ago
lol, looks like Elon Fuck’s brown nosing has failed miserably.
gregorum@lemm.ee 6 months ago
NEWS FLASH: GOP Still Shameless Liars!
blady_blah@lemmy.world 6 months ago
That’s all great, but the real thing that will stop it is economics. We have a PHEV and I calculated it out and we pay $8 per gallon equivalent compared to $5.50 for regular gas. That’s a pretty big difference. Right now we ignore the EV part of the vehicle. (Live in California and I pay $0.50/kwh.)
We’re planning on getting solar shortly and that may make it feasible, but until then, it’s not.
FrostKing@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The weird part is, when you actually talk to a Conservative irl, they don’t care about EVs. Sure they might not like them—they might even think they’re a Political scheme or whatever. But they at least understand that there are more important things happening. Politicians failure to represent their user base’s viewpoint in the US is always astounding.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Honestly, dumping tons of money into tech that has so many problems may not he the best idea.
Rhaedas@fedia.io 6 months ago
"Kentucky Attorney General Russell Coleman accused President Biden of being “willing to sacrifice the American auto industry and its workers in service of its radical green agenda."
I mean we could try and transition workers from a more negative industry type to a positive one...but that seems like a lot of work and less profitable, so never mind.
kescusay@lemmy.world 6 months ago
What the actual fuck is wrong with Republican politicians? I mean, I already know what’s wrong with Republican voters - brainwashing by years of Fox “News” - but the politicians? Are they all actual, literal sociopaths?
MrVilliam@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No, they’re just doing what they’re being paid to do by special interest groups aka big business. It’s not a bug and it’s not a feature; it’s the point. Optimal profits this quarter. Every quarter is a new quasi generation of executives who want a good quarter before moving on after x quarters.
TachyonTele@lemm.ee 6 months ago
The philosophy behind conservativism is to stay still. Conserve the status. Do not progress.
evatronic@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Nothing. They’re behaving quite rationally.
You just have to understand that their motivation is not “successful governing” or “making the world better” but rather, “getting more money.”
When you view their actions through the lens of self-enrichment, they’re behaving quite normally.
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s been so long that the inmates are running the asylum in the GOP these days.
Sanctus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You gotta know at this point the system has feedback. Its possible most of them were raised on the same shit their constituents are huffing.
moitoi@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
When you brainwashed for generations, you end with brainwashed in politics. This is just the beginning.
lolcatnip@reddthat.com 6 months ago
Yes.
slaacaa@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s just simple corruption (or lobby, as it’s called in the US), they are saying what the highest bidder asks them to say
freebee@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
rustbelting makes voters transition from democrat to republican. you could argue that they actually benefit from declining industry, so of course they’re going for it
TheFrirish@jlai.lu 6 months ago
omg politicians being bad I’m absolutely gobsmacked
winterayars@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
The American auto industry could also produce EVs, if it so chose. Nobody has to lose their jobs.
skyspydude1@lemmy.world 6 months ago
As an American auto worker, I like our move to EVs and the jobs at the massive new factories we built. But I guess wanting blue collar workers learning new skills and technologies makes me a gay communist.
ShepherdPie@midwest.social 6 months ago
Tesla is an American company. The ‘traditional’ American auto companies like GM and Ford don’t even build or source a lot of their parts in the US and Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep has been owned by a European company for quite a while now. This guy is a chump and I wish someone would have called him out on his BS.
AA5B@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Maybe someone should create EV incentives, with a requirement to be manufactured in country - both incentive to buy and incentive to manufacturers to invest in guaranteed growth area, and for their own future. Oops, that’s what we already have
ebc@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
They already do: Ford has the Mach-E & F-150 Lightning plus a bunch of PHEVs, GM has (had) the Bolt, Stellantis makes a few PHEVs among which one of the the very few cars on the market that can carry 7 passengers on battery power (the Chrysler Pacifica) altough that one is made in Canada, not the US.
Oh, and all of Tesla.
darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
I find that very hard to believe.
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There’s also nothing stopping the big three from making EVs.
Rhaedas@fedia.io 6 months ago
And making more than the minimum the government requires them to make for quota. Demand is even there now, so there's no excuse other than the bottom line, plus a bit of cooperation with the oil companies.
catloaf@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Yeah but it’s cheaper to just kill the competition than expand into a whole new sector.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
So I keep hearing people say:
“Just wait until the big players get into the game, then I’ll buy a good car”.
Imo the big players don’t deserve to survive this transition. They had their opportunity to spearhead it but instead literally chose to be on the wrong side of history.
Nothing stopping but players but greed to get into the EV game.
frezik@midwest.social 6 months ago
Perhaps they’d like to rollback all the times we’ve bailed out the auto industry. We don’t want the government to be choosing winners and loser, after all.
lunar17@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m really tired of republicans calling anything democrats do “radical” or “extreme” when they’re just pushing for the most mild stuff. I would die for some actual radical left ideas.
Nomecks@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I don’t know what this guy is pissed about. China is going to make their EVs in Mexico, like reaponsible American companies!
XTL@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
They’ve already made contracts and announcements for France as well.
jaybone@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s not even less profitable.
TheRealKuni@lemmy.world 6 months ago
That’s weird, because my Ford PHEV was assembled in Kentucky.
whotookkarl@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s almost like one of the main functions a functioning federal government is to create and regulate new markets. But why bother politicians with work when they can just try to bully people into complacency.
uis@lemm.ee 6 months ago
UAW got bipartisan support, right?