Submitted 3 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.vox.com/the-highlight/23972651/ultraviolet-disinfection-germicide-far-uv
Ultraviolet light can kill almost all the viruses in a room. Why isn’t it everywhere?::Can special lightbulbs end the next pandemic before it starts?
Because the spectrum requires to do so is harmful to humans and the environment. Putting it EVERYWHERE would cause all kinds of problems.
The article blathers on for page after page after page talking about technology is back in the '60s and '70s, an experimental technology using UV wavelengths that supposedly don’t bother humans. And systems that only point up in a room like the UV light isn’t going to get reflected into your eyeballs. I get the feeling the author doesn’t have much of a background and was really just trying to stitch a bunch of research together without really understanding most of it.
You can safely blast the shit out of central air ducts, but it doesn’t do anything for infected breathing viruses into the air sitting next to you or the people that touched the bathroom door handle.
I suspect if we see any real non biased studies come out of any of this equipment the difference will be close to within the error bar.
You’re assuming it’s not more “AI” nonsense though.
This is the most informed comment in the thread where it’s clear you actually read the damn article.
Some of this does appear to be due to a widespread misunderstanding about how droplets spread disease in the medical field. It was thought that UV light far enough away to be safe would also be too far away to be effective. At least, not without additional ventilation, but ventilation itself would help reduce the spread, and we don’t do that because it’s expensive. UV would be cheap.
Research conducted during Covid corrected this scientific misunderstanding, and UV may be effective without additional ventilation. Ozone effects still need to be studied, though, as well as overall effectiveness. It might be that the additional ozone causes a few hundred additional deaths, but with the tradeoff of thousands or even millions fewer respiratory disease deaths. That would be a worthwhile tradeoff, but we don’t know what those numbers look like.
The article itself mentions solutions to the issue of it being harmful to humans, either by putting it at a distance in the ceiling or just running air ventilation through it, or choosing a specific spectrum that apparently doesn’t seem to be harmful due to being blocked by the dead cell layer of one’s skin. The environmental issue though also gets talked about, and is suggested to be more the problem.
Just yesterday, I was defending Lemmy users by saying that they actually do read the article, but here we are.
The article talks about this specifically. Far-UV (222nm) doesn’t penetrate skin or eyes and is harmless to humans. The usual UV-C used for disinfection is 254nm and is quite dangerous.
This article is a longer version of “bleach kills it fast - what if that could be brought inside the body somehow?”
Just eat a tide pod and wash it down with some bleach!
Will there be any benefit to say putting it in the air duct? Like on a forced air system the main exhaust from the unit (I’m guessing it’s exhaust but that sounds wrong). I know some air filters are supposed to filter out airborne viruses and whatnot but I have no way of testing that. But I know what ultraviolet will do. And I’d have to assume sitting in the metal ductwork wouldn’t really hurt anything.
“X can kill gems! Why don’t we use X everywhere?”
X: Thing that can kill humans too. And/or cause cancer.
But what if we just inject the bleach? Or what if we just shine the light on the inside?
I’m so tired of this misrepresented quote. He said take the blood out, THEN bleach it. Covid deaths would drop overnight but y’all ain’t ready for that talk
tbh I wouldn’t mind running some of my stuff through a cleansing by fire ritual once in a while
It worked for Thích Quảng Đức !
Just use sarine FFS, that’ll teach them little invisible bastards
Don’t forget bleach!
“Hydroflouric Acid can kill almost all viruses in a bowl. Why aren’t we eating it?”
And a handgun can kill all viruses in a Petri dish
Ah, a fellow user of the Kitchen Gun? Good to meet you
The people who have are not around anymore.
Because it burns you. That’s the answer. It kills your skin cells and eyes the same way it kills the bacteria. Also, it is everywhere, it’s fucking outside. The sun. Fucking stupid. Idiots.
Know what else kills bacteria? Bleach. So get chugging.
So stupid.
Read the article. These problems are addressed.
Um, I’m going to copy a comment I made elsewhere:
Dude, read the article. The whole point is it uses shorter wavelengths so it doesn’t penetrate your skin or cornea.
Unlike me with your mom.
At this point, it’s clear that in small-scale settings, far-UV can kill the vast majority of pathogens present, which in turn would vastly reduce the risk of respiratory disease spread. It seems safe for human skin, and likely safe for human eyes, too.
Imagine not reading the article and having this much confidence in your terrible response.
Because it’s great at killing things, including human skin. Seriously, my local gym has people practically sign their life away before letting them into a UV-A/B tanning booth. No way are you putting the even worse UV-C bulbs out in public. That’s how people got their retinas fried at a crypto conference in Hong Kong last year.
Yo what?! You have a link about that retina destroying conference?
theguardian.com/…/guests-bored-ape-event-hong-kon…
It was a Bored Ape event "ApeFest’ in November. They used harmful UV bulbs instead of regular black light for decoration.
People think I’m nuts when I wear sunglasses on cloudy days, but my eyes hurt. Idk why they don’t hurt the same way sunny days, probably I don’t squint when it’s not so sunny.
cuz it literally burns your eye holes
Might be a good idea though if you could pair it with timers/sensors so that it only turns on when people aren’t home or something.
Like a 1 hour disinfection every day while people are at work/school.
I’m going to shill for LifX here and not get paid for it. I swear.
They already made smart bulbs that you can set a “cleaning schedule” on that uses UV light.
I don’t have any yet because LifX is expensive. I have 11 of their multicolor bulbs throughout the house, though. Bought those back when I had bachelor guy money.
Don’t most virus just becomes useless on most surfaces after so long anyway?
I’ve got my house kitted out with quite a bit of intelligence. I’ve spent a lot of time and money getting it working right, and it still has issues with human presence among other things.
I would absolutely not trust any automated system with something like this. It’s like buying tools from harbor freight: anything that makes your life easier is fine but never buy something from harbor freight that you have to entrust your life to. Similarly, never trust an automation that has the potential to end your life.
Better idea, they turn off if you look at them and then when you look away they turn back on. Simple
This thread might be the worst example of “I didn’t read the article, but I’ll comment anyway” that I’ve seen.
Yeah but ducks shouldn’t do that!!!
(I didn’t even read the headline)
Why isn’t it everywhere?
because it sounds scary even though it actually isn’t, and people don’t want to read the science, they want to read one headline and give a reactionary uninformed response.
If it kills all the viruses it also kills you lol
UVC, the kind that kills pathogens harms the skin and eyes and creates ozone. The article talks about using “far UV” which is just lights posted a safe distance away from humans above them which makes it considerably less effective at killing pathogens at the human level and also now theres a whole area of space where you cant go without risking harm from UVC like being on a ladder or some other platform.
UV also degrades lots of materials a lot faster
You know, his mom had multiple holes you could use instead.
Yeah UV light alone is safe, but by the end of the article it mentioned that far-UV light also triggers a chemical reaction that creates ozone, which is dangerous. It needs a good ventilator system to make it safer.
O3
That’s exactly what I thought it would be
Good news everyone!
UV light is both: A. Damaging to eyesight. B. Invisible.
You won’t know how much damage you’re doing to yourself until the damage has been done. This is how you give mass amounts of people eye trauma, and potentially blindness.
Imagine writing this headline in a universe where daylight exists rofl.
It’s not as if every part of your house has exposure to direct sunlight. They aren’t made for use in houses, though. Think more like hospital rooms or classrooms on a cycle when nobody is around.
There are UV light robots at my hospital that drive into rooms and blast it with high power UVB for 15 minutes or so to help disinfect.
We use uv light stands in the hospital. We will shut down a room and run a uv sanitizer for a bit. It works in some instances but it’s not exactly something you can just leave running all the time. Everyone would probably have a sick tan tho… To go with their skin cancer…
Those are 254nm. Far-UV is 222nm, which doesn’t penetrate or damage skin or the eyes and seems to be completely safe to humans. The main issue is that it can generate ozone, but how significant that is is currently unknown.
Ozone is also used to disinfect, that’s double the disinfection power!!!
This is why. theverge.com/…/bored-ape-nft-event-eye-injury-sun…
UV light is regularly used on HVAC systems and water purification systems.
There are systems used in hospitals that are automated which will roll into an empty room and then turn on to disinfect the room. They are usually used in hospitals but I’ve seen them used in places like China during their zero covid crackdown on public transportation.
Some transit systems in China even converted a paint booths to disinfect with UV so they could drive buses through. All of which is probably overkill as prolonged exposure to sunlight will do the same thing.
Exposure to UV light that is intense enough to kill viruses within seconds is very bad for humans. I pulled the cover off a system I was taking marketing pictures for while it was turned on. Within a thirty to sixty seconds I could feel like I was getting a sunburn on my arm that was closest to the light. I wouldn’t want to risk a direct UV system turning on while someone is sleeping and burning them. As a result most systems are indirect and rely on a combination of UV and HEPA filters to disinfect airborne viruses.
There are other ways to disinfect surfaces. Bleach or chlorine is cheap, simple and won’t harm humans. Chlorine gas can be used to kill really bad viruses like anthrax. Chlorine gas was used to disinfect the Federal buildings that had been contaminated in the 2001 anthrax attacks. Many detail shops, rental car agencies and public transit systems in the US use Chlorine gas on vehicles to disinfect or more commonly remove nasty odors from vehicles. The gas can seep into all cracks/crevices and get into the HVAC system ductwork in ways UV light can not. If you ever get into a car that faintly smells like a pool, chances are it has been gassed recently to kill an odor.
Pretty counterintuitive that in order to make UV less dangerous for humans, you can make it more ionizing. Anyway, I’d expect problems with degradation/yellowing of plastics, bleaching of everything in range, and massive issues with indoor ozone and some other forms of air pollution
Jeez, every response in here is about it burning your eyes. Thing is, people aren’t in every room all the time. Have it set to a sensor, same as the lights, and you can quickly sanitize large spaces that are unoccupied. Elevators, airplanes, etc can be sanitized the second they’re empty. My FIL is a retired GE engineer working on this technology.
Because it is very dangerous and people will absolutely let their toddler play next to the lamp. This is why it’s basically only used in places like hospitals where access can be controlled.
Did anyone actually read the article? The only guy whose question wasn’t already answered by the article was the one about yellowed plastics, lol.
Bleach kills AIDS, doesn’t mean you can inject it into your bloodstream and be okay.
Because that is specifically UVC and it’s harmful to humans too.
for example: wwd.com/…/hypebeast-party-uv-lights-injuries-1103…
Oof, ultraviolet light. This makes me flashback to April 2020, shortly after the U.S. shutdown for the Coronavirus pandemic.
If you have 1:57 minutes of free time, watch this video of former President Donald Trump addressing the nation on the response to the novel coronavirus.
Warning: If you experience second-hand embarassment, try not to watch Dr. Birx in the background squirm in her seat as she sits through the idiot rambling of the orange man.
The issue with stuff that kills everything is that… Well it kills everything.
If all humans died there wouldn’t be anyone getting sick at all from anything!
Do you want Ultraviolet resistant viruses?
I worked for a company that made a UVC light system for sterilization. The amount of safety you have to build in so people wont nuke themselves makes them hard to use.Also, the bulbs we used were delicate and had issues constantly.
This thing kills all living things so why don’t we bathe ourselves in it?
This is the dumbest shit. It kills all kinds of stuff, not just bad viruses. Homes are covered in bacteria which you’ve adapted to and are helpful. Kind of like gut bacteria, but outside your body. Killing all of them isn’t a good idea.
IIRC, they have UV sterilizers for central HVAC systems. So while it may not sterilize surfaces, it will kill all airborne pathogens.
That’s how you get UV resistant strains of all kinds of microbes
A bit of the old Ultraviolence, eh?
EmergMemeHologram@startrek.website 3 months ago
Without bothering to read the article, I look forward to sunburning my retinas like im at a crypto rave.
jonne@infosec.pub 3 months ago
To be fair, nobody complained about getting COVID from that event.
CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 3 months ago
The article does mention the issue of safety and how to address it actually
pearable@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
Joke aside, looks like they’re using a higher bandwidth of light, 222nm compared to more common 254nm uv for medical uses. It doesn’t penetrate the skin or eyes sufficiently to cause damage.
maness300@lemmy.world 3 months ago
What if, and hear me out,
What if…
What if… we just ran them when people weren’t in the room? 🤯
Crazy what happens when you can come up with your own thoughts instead of parroting reddit comments ad nauseam.
DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz 3 months ago
This is already a thing in many hospitals, and have been even before covid.
frezik@midwest.social 3 months ago
Won’t work in spaces where people are around all day, like offices, but it doesn’t matter. The eye and skin dangers are already addressed for the most part. The major remaing question is ozone and the VOCs it combines with.
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 3 months ago
What if, i know, crazy idea but what if you read the fucking article in question?
CustodialTeapot@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Lemmy users don’t respond well to reasonable criticism or facts.
theneverfox@pawb.social 3 months ago
Ozone is a concern (it’s bad to breathe it), as is using it as a cheap way to do less proper ventilation
It also wouldn’t do much for things like COVID, where ventilation does help
scarabic@lemmy.world 3 months ago
And bleaching all materials in the room. And slowly destroying anything made of paper or plastic or wood.