Kirk made out with Uhura on prime time network television. Proportional to that time, it was probably the wokest thing ever.
Phasers set to "Bitch please"
Submitted 1 year ago by Stamets@startrek.website to risa@startrek.website
https://startrek.website/pictrs/image/11b3e6c3-423c-4071-ba98-dc720d176559.jpeg
Comments
Spaghetti_Hitchens@kbin.social 1 year ago
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Or just having a black woman on the bridge as a senior officer next to the captain
Or a Russian as a helmsman
Or a Japanese asian man next them
Or a freaking Scotsman yelling nonsense from the boiler room
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And then in the 1980s they made a series where the main theme was that the status quo was perfect and should never be questioned, and they didn’t allow a gay character to exist in the entire franchise until 2017. Star Trek’s been coasting on the progressiveness of the 1960s series for a long time, and it should be no surprise that a substantial portion of its modern audience has different politics.
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 1 year ago
It was the first televised interracial kiss.
At least in the USA if not the world.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
It was the second actually.
Still pretty woke though.
calavera@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It was not the first internationally nor from United States.
A quick search will show you this
intensely_human@lemm.ee 1 year ago
People being free to do as they see fit is great. People being constrained from hurting others’ feelings not so much.
I haven’t seen the new star trek so I don’t know what kind of wokeness is being referred to, but if it were a matter of an interracial relationship I doubt people would be calling it woke.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
That’s what bothers me for a long time now and I’m glad I’m not alone: I like the stories but a black woman on the bridge? Really? But it’s ok, she was born in Africa so she’s not necessarily a former slave. What bothers me more is a later development: A Russian on a supposedly American ship! Even if it’s not explicitly American, there are Americans on the bridge and they sure as hell won’t serve with a Russian! What do they think? The cold war is over? But I have great hope in the planned new series. I hope the Next Generation won’t be that woke.
Firipu@startrek.website 1 year ago
Just imagine what they could come up in the future. A female captain? A black station commander? No way, Star Trek has gone down the gutter. I’m not watching TNG. They can stick their wokeness where the sun don’t shine.
Pickle_Jr@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Go back even further! The cage almost canceled the entire show because a woman was merely implied to be captaining the ship for a quick while 😰😰
jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
And NBC threw a tantrum because of Uhura’s and Kirk’s kiss, which was made more ridiculous because the backlash they expected never came. I wonder how often they self-censored without any reason.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
The wasn’t just implied to be anything, she was second in command. Don’t get me wrong, I’m totally for inclusion and diversity and stuff but a woman second in command is where I draw the line.
Nobody@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My favorite TOS episode was the one where they showed the clear superiority of the aliens with the white/black faces over the aliens with the black/white faces. The genocide part went a bit far, but in the end those black/white face guys had it coming.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
You almost make it seem ridiculous by calling it black/white faces. It was the whole body! They wear gloves so you didn’t see it but it wasn’t just the face. That in mind, the white/black skinned were totally in their right. The genocide didn’t even happen, it’s just made up like most genocides are. The black/white people just prevented worse from happening.
MyPornAlt@lemmynsfw.com 1 year ago
I’m all for the idea of wokeness, but there are those that take it to an extreme. Those that would silence a black man making a honest case for color-blindness, calling him racist. Those that won’t put in any thought before declaring anyone who disagrees with them a racist/transphobe/xenophobe etc etc etc.
There is room for honest discussion and critical thinking, but there is this mob mentality ultraleft (and yea this exists in the right too) that seems incapable of critical thought and only capable of hating anything that opposes the groupthink.
echo64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
you can always tell when someone has said something terrible and got called a fascist/nazi for it because they say stuff like this
Zink@programming.dev 1 year ago
Can you give us a good example that is exclusive to the ultra left, which doesn’t involve bigotry or “just asking questions” talking points?
Otherwise, the whole groupthink problem is a much wider issue, and why the two party system in the US is a problem.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Remember when the ultraleft cancelled Bud Light?
Gloomy@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
As a rather left leaning Person I have no problem with New Trek beeing “woke” in general.
I fucking hate Discovery, to a point tust I had to give up on it after season 3. Picards first 2 season where almost as bad (I like the this season, more or less).
The problem is not so much the wokeness of those series, it’s that it’s just bad storytelling.
The way how woke ideas are implemented just feels like pandering to the audience. Homosexualyity, Non Binary characters, enviromentalism… I approve representation for all of those and would have loved to see them integrated in a meaningfull way. But the way they were handled it felt wrong to me, as if they were forced into the story rather than emerging from it organicly.
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
Well, as someone who’s gay, I’d say that the representation from Stamets and Culber didn’t feel forced or natural. If Stamets were straight and Culber were a woman then nothing would change. If Adira wasn’t non-binary then nothing would change. If Grey wasn’t trans then nothing would change. Stamets was on screen for like two episodes before you ever find out that he’s gay. Culber on for one. Adira doesn’t mention that they’re non-binary until halfway through Season 3 and the reaction is literally just “Okay” and they move on. Grey only has two throwaway lines mentioning a previous transition. Their characters are all well established without their sexuality or identity having any impact on the show. It would all be the same characters but straight. The show goes out of its way to demonstrate that being gay, trans or non-binary has literally nothing to do with the content of your character.
I am getting slightly tired though of seeing people who aren’t part of the community saying that the representation of us ‘feels forced’. Our mere existence isn’t forced.
Gloomy@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Calm down.
You don’t need to go into full attack Mode here. Im happy for you, that you felt repretented. I did not feel the way they handled it felt like good representstion. I’d be happy to see more representstion in general, I just wish it would be embedded into a better told story. If you are cool with the way it’s done: Good for you.
I am getting slightly tired though of seeing people who aren’t part of the community saying that the representation of us ‘feels forced’. Our mere existence isn’t forced. Moreover, are you really the one who gets to judge this? After people trying to kill us for decades, and then using us for marketing purposes, now y’all wanna judge whether our existence is “forced”?
This is a beautiful example of heteronormativity at work. You can disagree with me on how and if Discovery did a good job of representing LGBTQI+. topic or not without assuming my sexuality or implying thst I called out for the war on gays, thank you very much.
lugal@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
A gay couple in a series today is as forced as a black woman on the bridge in the 60s. The people who complained about the latter are the same kind of people who complain about the former today and not even notice the latter. It’s also the same kind of people who won’t notice either in the future and complain about what ever. Star trek handled political topics very well from the beginning by showing it as normal and making it a topic in allegories, sometimes making it explicit like when Kirk and Bones talk about how the “cold war on earth in the 20th century never got hot” or how wrong the Vietnam war “was”.
You want your star trek before it was political? You can’t be talking about TOS, not even the first pilot. Maybe the intro?
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It did bother me a little that Adira was adopted by Stamets and Culber, only because it sort of felt like “let’s keep all the LGBT+ characters together” in a way, but I love that there’s a nonbinary primary character on Star Trek.
kshade@lemmy.world 1 year ago
To me the relationship between Stamets and Culber felt like the single island of humanity and goodness in the four seasons I almost got through. And then they fridged Culber, only to then bring him back with mushroom trauma. Not really the woke thing to do. Adira and Gray just seemed kinda pointless from what I remember, despite the somewhat interesting backstory.
What I found forced and entirely unnecessary was Lt. Connolly in the first episode of the second season.
emptyother@programming.dev 1 year ago
Can’t LGBT+ be included unless its meaningful? I dont like that “pandering” argument. It is too easy to misuse, too subjective.
I want them included in bad shows as much as in good shows. I want a random background person to be gay just as much as an important character. Best case would be if we didnt even raise an eyebrow on seeing a LGBT+ character and rather critizise their acting or plot instead of blaming “pandering”. I dont hear anyone call forcing a unecessary romantic straight subplot into a plot for “pandering”.
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
I dont hear anyone call forcing a unecessary romantic straight subplot into a plot for “pandering”.
That line needs to be screamed from the heavens. For every single person who claims that “Oh their sexuality or identity feels forced” they seem to have no problem with stuff like Hulk and Black Widow having a relationship, or baby t-shirts saying surprisingly sexual stuff (or at least innuendo). Or saying that their kids are dating someone else simply because their child dares to be friends with the opposite sex.
It’s exhausting. Everytime there is a gay character it has to meet some random standard that does not exist for any straight characters.
LilB0kChoy@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Best case would be if we didnt even raise an eyebrow on seeing a LGBT+ character
This is what I’ve liked about Discovery in particular. It feels to meet like it’s just organic and normal. They don’t highlight or make a spectacle of the LGBT+ characters’ gender/identity and it’s just there, normal and regular, just like in real life.
Daqu@feddit.de 1 year ago
The stories suck and neither fanservice nor wokeness save new trek from being worse than the trek from our youth.
Lavitz@lemmings.world 1 year ago
Gloomy have you ever watched Star Trek? Like not just watched the pretty lights on the TV but ingested the story? The idea of the new episodes being more “woke” than the classic, TNG or DS9 is garbage.
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
I was so blinded by the ‘bad representation of homosexuality’ nonsense that I missed the environmentalism aspect. Environmentalism is too much for Star Trek?! The Voyage Home (just a single example) is explicitly about environmentalism and how hunting/pollution led to the extinction of marine life. If I spent 30 seconds on google I’d probably find another half dozen episodes that are specifically about it or the impacts of it.
Gloomy@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I have, yes, since I was about 10. Ive seen all of old Trek up to DS9 multiple times. Im not saying New is more woke.
Im saying that progressiv and “woke” ideas used to be told in a orgsnic way that felt natural to the world they were told in. Modern Star Trek, to me, is badly told stories with fanservice and woke ideas glued onto them in an awkward way.
David_Eight@lemmy.world 1 year ago
As a rather left leaning Person I have no problem with TOS beeing “woke” in general.
The way how “woke” ideas are implemented just feels like pandering to the audience. Black, Asian and female characters… At least they got rid of number one after the pilot, no need to pander to the female audience with two women on the bridge crew.
-Gloomys grandfather probably
isthereanydeal@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Take my upvote
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Sounds like they were never a Trekkie to begin with.
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
They rarely are. They’re usually just someone who watched Star Trek and thought it looked cool. When it comes to the actual ideas and equality and giving people chances? Nah. The amount of “Trekkies” I’ve met who are aggressively for the death penalty for people who they politically disagree with or who are disgustingly racist? Phenomenally high.
LilB0kChoy@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Speaking only for my own experience, my exposure was with TNG as a kid before streaming and everything. It was always on in syndication daytime and late night and it was more interesting to me than other choices.
I didn’t know or understand anything about the message of the series. The more recent movies didn’t really highlight it for me at all either.
Now, however, we watched all of Strange New Worlds, we’re halfway through Discovery and just finished Picard and in retrospect it’s obvious that it’s always been a core part of the show.
Without the prior exposure and context? It might seem a little heavy handed but anybody who would consider it “woke” or too PC is likely a hard-right conservative, not a Trekkie.
thecrotch@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The amount of “Trekkies” I’ve met who are aggressively for the death penalty
Voyager fans… Never 4get tuvix.
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
My only thing is I disagree with the whole “complete dictatorial police state, but it’s cool because at least they’re a benevolent dictatorial police state” thing. Like yes every government other than the federation is worse, but just you try to have your own laws and customs contrary to Federation wishes. Better hope they can show up in time to save your ass from threats foreign or federation because no planets or people on them are allowed to have weapons, for instance.
Kobester1985@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Damn I was hoping it was just the handful that I’ve met that are like that. I’ve been a fan along with my father since he introduced me to TNG when I was very young. Thankfully there have been relatively few like that around here.
UnspecificGravity@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
OG startrek was probably the “wokest” thing on TV in the sixties. And a bunch of grouchy old men that no one cared about bitched about it back then too.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They had a black woman in a respected, professional position with an officer’s rank. The same with an Asian man.
They tackled race relations (in an admittedly very silly way) when no one else would touch it.
They had one of the first onscreen kisses between a white person and a black person.
Starfleet was created as a military force, but dedicated to peaceful exploration and science at the height of the Vietnam war.
Can you even imagine what today’s Republicans would say about it back then? There would be a boycott of the network the first time Uhura was onscreen and it wouldn’t have finished the season because there were only three networks.
flatplutosociety@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They had a black woman in a respected, professional position with an officer’s rank. The same with an Asian man.
And a Russian in a trusted role. That was a pretty big deal during Cold War times, too.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 year ago
The same people would be upset to learn that Rage Against the Machine is politically charged.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I still can’t get past Paul Ryan saying RATM was his favorite band as if he’d never listened to a single lyric.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t care what anyone thinks.
I’m really enjoying the new series, and if you don’t like them, turn them off and watch something else. You can let people enjoy things.
Notyourbusiness@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I am not to into many of the series since DS9 but I Love me some Lower decks and I of course watched the cross over episode.
unreasonabro@lemmy.world 1 year ago
not if those things are bad, bro
;) just fuckin with you i aint seen an ep mostly because i’m racist against all the other new treks. Does this one do the artificial bullshit the other ones have been doing to drum up tension? Making every technical problem be life or death, pulse-pounding soundtrack, dude’s literally changing a screw but the whole ship might explode? Ten minutes of cuts between concerned faces per episode? sorry i’m falling asleep trying to describe it, so boring
Snoopey@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The problem is that most modern trek TV shows have terrible writing. I tried so hard to like discovery
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Yeah I’m pretty sure that is what is turning me off the current shows. I don’t mind the representation, since that’s a core element of Trek and has been since the first show.
Just that the shows, especially discovery, felt very lecturing and on the nose. I don’t want literal current day talking points in space. I want to see a future where those issues have been overcome and it is normal and no big deal.
Though I may be biased because I hated the stamets character, or rather the whole engineering department.
Neurotic gay scientist who is always preoccupied with his emotional life but is also as an afterthought the smartest guy in the galaxy, featuring snarky butch lesbian wonder engineer who is preoccupied with being obnoxious kinda gets old after some episodes.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 year ago
I don’t want this serialized shit.
I’ve seen 4 generations of the show, all were episodic. All of a sudden, everything is serialized. Fuck that. Give me self-contained, 43-45 minute stories.
barsoap@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’ll say the B-word. I’ll say it.
Babylon 5 had it perfectly figured out in the 90s.
David_Eight@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think it’s starting to turn around.
Discovery - I stopped watching after season 2 cause I thought it was so bad
Picard - season 1-2 terrible. Season 3 pretty good
Lower Decks - all good
Strange New worlds - only watched S1, not my favorite but will definitely watch S2
Prodigy - never saw it so IDK
I think Discovery and Picard really ruined the reputation of modern Star Trek. Overall I think it’s at worst it’s average.
agent_flounder@lemmy.world 1 year ago
To each their own. I had a different experience.
I found Picard 1-2 was great fun. Haven’t seen season 3 yet.
Lower Decks is awesome. I love the myriad references.
Strange New Worlds pretty much reignited my dormant ST passion and reminded me why I loved TOS and TNG. Interesting Sci-Fi stories are the main thing I want out of Star Trek because that’s what it was all about when I was a kid watching TOS returns. The stories can be implausible and corny with clunky dialog, I don’t care. Just make me go “hmm” or make me wish I could explore the galaxy and I got my fix. It’s why I still like TOS and TNG.
Just started Discovery last night. Only one episode in. First impression, “Why you gotta do my Klingons dirty like that, what the actual fuck??”
I appreciate that it is so cinematic in style. Feels like watching some of the original movies. But goddamn with the Klingons. The discontinuity is incredibly jarring. Although I will admit I am really wanting to find out what happens next.
homesnatch@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Cool, never seen a gold colored Enterprise before.
joyjoy@lemm.ee 1 year ago
TNG was woke, and DS9 was dark. What star trek is has always been.
pineapplelover@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I started with The Orville (I know, it’s not Star Trek), then Lower Decks, TNG, and now DS9. If you want woke, The Orville is very woke and I really enjoyed it, they brought up trans rights and gay rights issues. Following that, TNG isn’t really woke I don’t think, there’s still some traditional patriarchy issues in there iirc but it’s still a pretty moderate show.
knatschus@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
DS9 was also woke and fun. TNG and TOS had dark episodes. I miss the diversity in modern trek
SupraMario@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hides in corner…only having watched lower decks and afraid to understand the rest of ST as a SWs fan…
Stamets@startrek.website 1 year ago
You can always join us and watch more Star Trek!
But people complain about the newer iterations of Trek being ‘woke’ for introducing all flavor of LGBTQIA+ characters, tackling hot button issues, and just generally showing love and equality for all. Yet they seem to be completely blind to the fact that the original series started all of this by being ‘woke’ at the time. Having a black woman on the bridge who was treated as an equal, a Japanese man treated as an equal. Even a Russian with Chekov. People forget that at the time this was a little bit insane to show on TV. Now it’s like “Oh well, yeah, of course! They were just being awesome!” No. They were being the 60s equivalent of woke. That only continued in The Next Generation by introducing more people of color, people with disabilities of all sorts, and more intense subject matter. Got even more intense (and darker) in DS9. Voyager is guilty of the same thing. Enterprise as well but it’s the younger sibling people talk less about so it doesn’t get as much praise in that department. Probably because of alien nazis but blame Voyager for starting that with the Hirogen.
Anyway.
Point being that Star Trek has been woke since the start but people wanna ignore that and just whine about people different than them because they’re either cowards who are afraid change, who are hateful bigots who don’t want others to have happiness, or who are fools that believe the world revolves around them.
That or they’re just plain fucking stupid.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Star Trek has always always been moral plays set in space. Politics has been integral to it since the beginning.
samus12345@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Wow, you’re missing a LOT of context for the jokes if you’ve never seen any other Star Trek. Still, it’s a credit to them that you can still enjoy it regardless.
deadbeef79000@lemmy.nz 1 year ago
Watch it, enjoy it, ignore the fans.
No one hates ST more than Trekkies.
Haus@kbin.social 1 year ago
Anybody ever watch Earth Space Dock zone chat in STO? I last visited around the time Trump was materializing as an actual possibility as a presidential candidate. The toxicity put r/thedonald to shame.
BearWolf@lemmings.world 1 year ago
Cope, seethe, dilate. New Trek sucks. And not just cause it openly takes one side in every cultural dispute but because it’s uninspired and generic. Ooooh, green evil alien lady! We eat our own shit lol! Gene the scum cleaner! Non-binary ghosts! Jan 6 caused WWIII!
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Set phasers to … Stun
uis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And Personal Computer?
Lemmylemmylemmy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Cool ship
TWeaK@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Who knew a scarecrow argument could bring about such a spicy thread.
dontcarebear@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If anything, you could complain that it is copy pasted from modern culture, and doesn’t imagine the history of the timeline up until then, such as bell riots, eugenics wars, world wars, vulcans, establishment of the federation…
It feels disconnected from the world. Like an American microcosm snapshot of 2023 dropped into the world of the Star Trek future.
THAT I can understand as criticism.
Just calling it woke because “woke is bad” is just political trolling as it is everywhere. Like a cheap bot.
GlitchyDigiBun@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
My favorite thing is to have them define “woke.” When they can’t because it’s only a buzzword to them, I explain it means “waking up” to the idea that you’re not the only human being with a purpose-filled life, that there are others for whom the system is built to deal a bad hand, and that the most ironic part is that 9 times out of 10 the individual I’m speaking to is not on the list of the “system’s chosen.”
toaster@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
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Gigan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
To me, woke is when identity politics issues are intentionally inserted into a piece of media not to improve the quality of the story, but to push the creators political opinions. Even when I agree with them it annoys me, because it takes me out of the story and makes me feel like I’m being preached too or I’m consuming propaganda.
BarrelAgedBoredom@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I watched season 1 of Picard and discovery and they just didn’t feel like Star Trek to me. The people complaining about how “woke” it is just distract from legitimate criticism. A lot of it for me was the sets. Their design was dark, gloomy and had an air of oppression that, while present in various forms across trek, wasn’t previously baked into the design of the federation. It was all moody lighting and permenantly frowning actors. That temperament translated into the writing as well but you’ve already addressed part of that. And I’ve got a bone to pick in general with season 1 of Picard but that’s a whole other rant lol
query@lemmy.world 1 year ago
TNG was close to having a transgender episode, “The Outcast”, but they were stuck in their time and didn’t really make any kind of statement.
TOS made several comments on religion and running into powerful beings. In particular “Who Mourns for Adonais?”, which would’ve been a great take if not for Kirk saying “Mankind has no need for gods. We find the one quite adequate”.
MarmaladeMermaid@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I thought having Riker fall in love with one of the enby people was about as close to a statement of support as they could get in the 90s.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 1 year ago
That’s the problem with woke as a term. No one can agree on what woke actually means, a bit like fascism.
Does it mean hyper left politics shoved in existing IPs? Sure, a lot would agree with that. How about overly corporate content that has as much soul as a lug nut? What about just generally bad content, or overdone content like the current round of superheo movies? I wouldn’t call them woke, but many would.
The problem with Star Trek and wokeness is that TNG/DS9/Voy was filled with 80s/90s era wokeness. Most people can get behind that. But 2020s era wokeness is a different beast, and it doesn’t seem to fit with the older content.
David_Eight@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Both terms are clearly defined and people choose to use them wrong, like you did with your examples.
People where always upset with the level of “wokeness” in Star Trek. The difference being that less where aware of it and if you wanted to complain you had to physically write a letter, go down to the post office, buy some stamps, and mail it in. Today you can just tweet some bullshit from your couch.
emptyother@programming.dev 1 year ago
Truth. Word trends take some time to spread around the world, and by the time it reached me it was used mostly as a derogatory term. I could not figure out what it meant from context. Initially I thought it was related to red-pillers because it was used by the same kind of angry people.
I had to look up the definition eventually.