Submitted 1 year ago by zoe@lemm.ee to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
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cross-posted from: lemmit.online/post/1011094
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The original was posted on /r/aboringdystopia by /u/bisexualbestfriend on 2023-10-04 15:06:06.
Never forget: If a company doesn’t want you to have it, it’s probably a good for you.
It really is that simple.
Most companies don't want you to drink cyanide, but it isn't good for you. Most companies don't want you getting hurt on the job. Most companies don't want you drinking or doing drugs while using heavy equipment. All these things arent good for you.
I'm not saying to unionize or not, but the logic is fallacious.
My union got me more money in a single year than I will pay in dues for my entire career in at least 3 separate years in the 6 years I’ve been working for my employer.
I get leave each year that is slightly more than 20 percent of my work hours.
Unions are amazing for workers.
The fact they are putting these up should let you know it’s something you want to join
Agree. I don’t understand why Amazon thinks this will help, like “hello people, Union is a thing that we’re really afraid of, haven’t you heard?”
People are so used to getting gaslit by megacorps, they just eat that shit up unquestioned
Because they want to plant that seed of doubt and fear.
Might not work for you, but unfortunately there are a lot of naive or insecure folks out there.
I do feel like this is smart. The first two points are whatever but the third one “typically you must go through union instead of your supervisor or manager” makes it sound like there is a lot of bureaucratic overhead to it. People who are undecided could feel that it’s too much effort.
If you can think critically, sure. But large amounts of the population are dumb as bricks and will believe this literally just because it’s on a poster.
Don’t trust unions - they can’t guarantee you benefits. Trust us, we guarantee the most exploitative conditions as long as you don’t organise!
That sarcasm is incredably subtle. Those on reddit tricked/paid to promote that sentiment would include your first sentence almost verbatim.
Don’t trust unions - they can’t guarantee you benefits.
Assuming thats a response to me since this app sucks and its hard to tell, its true. Pension funds go to shit and get “borrowed” out of all the time. I like the benefits I get, but I’m not brainwashed either. Its not all positives.
This is what I would call insanity:
Well, they can’t. Let’s be real. That’s a bad angle to argue from. LONG list of all the positives and truths, but don’t use that one unless you very easily want to get shut down and look foolish. I left my last 2 jobs because of the corporate end going stupid and pensions being iffy, both of them have since filed for bankruptcy.
How is this even legal? As a European I can’t understand how anyone falls for this blatant anti-union propaganda. They are obviously beneficial to workers (that’s literally why they exist) and I’ve never had to run anything by my union unless I believe I’m being unfairly treated by my employer.
Yes, from a European point of view this is something straight out of a bad comedy sketch. If unions would be bad for workers, why the hell would anyone want to advertise against them?
Over the last 11 years since I moved into my current role, my salary has risen by approximately £35k. In addition to this my conditions have improved and I work fewer hours. My yearly negotiated increase has always outstripped inflation and I have only lost one day’s pay due to strike action to achieve these rises.
The company I work for continues to post profits in the billions of £s, despite paying their workers fairly.
I’d say my monthly union dues of <£20 have served me pretty well.
Anyone advocating against a union either stands to lose out by unionisation (ie those at the top that would rather keep their bonuses/salaries as high as possible) or have completely bought in to the capitalist nonsense that is often thrown around about unions.
Because in many cases they can be. Really depends on your industry, and the Union you’re in. Some are the only way the job is tolerable, sometimes they hold workers back, many times unintentionally but still happens. I’m in trucking, for us, we’re WAY better off with Unions behind us because trucking has VERY outdated regulations and many employers exploit that likes it’s tax code loopholes.
I’m in a right to work state, so people don’t have to join the Union if they don’t want to, you’d be amazed at how many don’t! Many of the ones who don’t are the people in the boomer years who have years of gripes against the Unions, people that spends decades as union workers. I’ve heard a lot of shit, it’s not all bullshit. There’s +/-. Only ignorant people claim otherwise.
Free speech I suppose.
Illegal would be then telling them they cannot unionize, or they’ll face repercussions.
I can’t understand how anyone falls for this blatant anti-union propaganda
In amarica, there is no words to distinguish red (uncorrupted) and yellow (capitol sympathetic) unions. Their using the distrust their lackies created to ruin all unions.
Important point. We do have some words, I was stuck working for a ‘sweetheart union’ once.
Politics. Most conservatives are anti-union and pro-business in the US.
I work in a “right to work” state, which means you aren’t compelled to pay union dues, even if you directly benefit from one. This is specifically to undermine the power of unions which are overwhelmingly supportive of Democrats. Wooing union support is critical for them (see: Joe Biden in Michigan recently).
It literally is that simple.
It’s legal because we have free speech in this country. The company can post anything they like as long as it doesn’t meet the definition of Union busting, which (is) illegal. We don’t need to go to our Unions either, just more stupidity.
We have free speech in Europe too. Anyway, I originally thought the poster was hanging above a voting booth, but I see now it seems to be some kind of computer for staff to clock in and out of work. Still shitty but not quite as dystopian as I thought.
Obligatory, “if a company is trying to convince you you don’t need a union, you need a union”.
Unions are like condoms, in that regard.
"Oh no, I'll have to go through someone who actually has my interests at heart and not my shitty manager! Damn unions!"
And no, you don’t have to go through the union instead of your supervisor/manager. In my union job, they’d send a witness/advocate along with someone if they had an issue where a manager was involved.
The union was corrupt, but despite that it was still the best factory job I’ve worked in (ok another one was also not bad but that was mostly because no one really gave a fuck about the stupid shit there and everyone just did their jobs without fucking with each other). The pay was high enough that when I was looking for something better, I realized a certification I had started wasn’t going to mean more money, just different work for similar money.
Yea. I had a shop steward sit in on all my meetings with management. They represent the union, it’s influence, and it’s contract. They make sure everyone is playing by the rules and management doesn’t take advantage of an employee that doesn’t know labor laws, policies and procedures, their work contract, or the union contract.
It wasn’t a requirement for meeting with management, but it was something a manager could not refuse if requested by the employee. Any meeting with management would be delayed until a shop steward was available.
I was a strong advocate for every employee to have one with all meetings with management.
It's not a guarantee they have your interests and heart, but your odds are a lot better than your supervisor having your interests and heart.
Your supervisor has a duty to put the good of the company ahead of the good of the employee or they're risking their own jobs.
interests and heart
Yeah, I hate it when my supervisor steals my vital organs.
It’s not a guarantee they have your interests and heart
No, but it’s at least in their job description to act accordingly.
That's why I advise anyone who has anything important happening to them to first seek advise from an organization that deals with worker rights, a union or a lawyer, as HR are there to protect the company, not to help you.
If they help you, it's only because that's what's beneficial to the company and their personal allegiances in the company.
The amount of effort your company goes into dissuading you from starting a Union, is proportional to how much you need one.
They have only one argument, and it’s pathetic and not even true. Dues without guarantee. lol
It doesn’t matter what their argument is, Amazon workers are probably smart enough to realize any anti-union advertising is because unions are good for workers and bad for Amazon.
I can’t believe imagine there’s a single Amazon worker who thinks Amazon has their best interest at heart or would spend money to save their employees money.
Believe it. I’m sure a factor in where Amazon locates its facilities is union presence and support, along with cost of living and education level. That is to say, lower income areas with an undereducated population and strong anti-labor politics. Obviously not possible in every region but a lot of the US is like a whole other world when you travel just outside the city.
At my FC, I would say 50% at best would even consider the question. MAGA/Trump support runs deep there. Nobody likes the company, yet they will happily take its side over their coworkers…
I guess those managers who fight the workers do believe that Amazon has their best interest at heart.
Reasons not to join union:
No guarantee that they will help at all mitigating our blatant exploitation of the workforce
Uh, it is un-american.
The un-american argument always makes me laugh. Ah yes, Unions bad, good thing I live in the U.S.A where Unions aren’t a thing. no siree, you won’t find a single Union here, that’s for sure!
The creepy part is how you’re supposed to turn in anyone who discusses unions or unionizing.
They literally tell you “if you hear someone discussing something against the company’s best interests, say something!”
How’s it not illegal?
Because Amazon can afford lawyers, and people who work for Amazon can’t…
It’s only illegal if the person you hurt is rich enough to sue you…
murica
Crazy that they are using the same tactics to hinder unionizing that they used a hundred years ago.
Straight lies. How can you tell someone that unions cannot guarantee anything?
Sure a union technically can not guarantee anything. But I’ll guarantee you’ll be in a million times stronger position with a union.
They’re also spreading this nonsense at my hospital where we’re actively organizing right now. It preys on people’s ignorance of how legal contracts work.
Your lease doesn’t guarantee that your landlord won’t violate its terms either. But it does give you the ammunition to take them to court and win compensation, if they do.
The same applies to a union contact. It’s legally binding in the same way. Sure the company technically can violate the terms of that agreement. But the union is going to escalate the issue to the NLRB and/or sue them in court, if they do. And you will win, if you provide the evidence that they violated the legally binding contract.
This is what disingenuous corporations call “not guaranteed”
I think what they’re trying to say is that being in a union, by itself doesn’t guarantee higher wages or better benefits. Which is true, but incredibly misleading since you sure as hell aren’t getting those wage/benefit increases without union membership.
“You can’t guarantee that your new collective bargaining agreement will be honored by us.”
Unions literally cannot guarantee you money, dude. Other than what’s in their coffers, and what is “drawn up” in advance, collected for, and spelled out in a written agreement.
Especially fragile new unions, they don’t have jack shit going for them. The company isn’t going to help it form, and they might choose to fire dissenters attempting to unionize. During a strike or demonstrations, even with a formed union, the company isn’t going to pay the workers for not working. In this way, the company is correct in saying “there are no guarantees of pay”. Hell if they don’t like you there’s no guarantee of a job at all, if there’s no established union.
It’s all talk, speculation until a formed union draws up a legal, enforceable contract that both company & union agree to. CBA, as it’s called (Collective Bargaining Agreement).
It’s the company who has to sign off on the CBA, too.
A union can ASK for things, but it’s always the company guaranteeing it.
If conditions were left up to corporations children would still be working, we’d be doing 12 hours a day 6 days a week and Charles Dickens a Christmas Carol would be an autobiography on the current bestsellers list.
Corporations are interested in making profits, paying shareholders, managers getting their bonuses, workers are don’t make the top 10.
“Have to go through a union instead of a supervisor or manager.”
Like anyone wants to go to an Amazon manager.
“Hey Manager Amy Zone, can I have a bit of time off for my leg to heal? It was just partially crushed by a stack of Prime Day boxes.”
“Employee 3869310, in the time it took you to get across the warehouse to ask me that dumbass question, you just used up the last of your bathroom breaks for the day. As an act of mercy, here’s my empty Amazon Basics Hyrdration Drink bottle. Just try not to piss all over the floor when you use it. Now get your ass back to work!”
There’s also the fact that that’s not true.
I’m union (USPS) and the only thing I’d ever do that would require me to go to the union is a schedule change, and the only reason for that is so the union can make sure I’m of sound mind and making this decision out of personal interest and not at the request/insistence of management - I have a schedule and any time worked outside of that is at time and a half, so if management wants me to change my hours for them, they gotta start paying me 50% more, or just give me overtime. Unions are cool
I did a seasonal stint at a Target Warehouse recently, and while there wasn’t anything blatantly antiunion, the effort is absolutely there. There is alot of talk about open door policies, open communication lines between management and workers, and a culture of “trust”. My emphasis, their words. They also have a standing policy that, out of context, is very odd. Knowing what I do about antiunion measures, it’s very blatant. They have a fiercely reinforced policy that there is to be no distribution of any papers or solicitation of any kind during work hours or on Target property. They attempt to rationale it with an example of people “asking for kids fundraising orders or public funding websites”. Personally I’ve never known those to be even a mild distraction at any workplace.
I understand not doing it during work hours, but it should absolutely be allowed to happen on the property.
I thought this was against the law?
Amazon denied that they were doing it as a company (of course they did).
Luckily, the union won this election and it was certified in january of this year
100% they did.
Isn’t this illegal?
im not american so these anti union things are always wild to see, like do these actually work?
Dues deducted from your pay… yes true… oh no it’s a whopping $20-50 a pay (spitballing a range… I pay $44.49 per pay)
No guarantees on pay, benefits or work rules even though it’s extremely unlikely you won’t get better pay, benefits or work rules using that line of thinking the company doesn’t guarantee that either lol
Typically must go through union, not supervisor or manager… okay for what? I got to my supervisors and managers every day for stuff and even if that is the case so fucking what supervisors and managers don’t have my best interest in mind.
Piss on anti-union propoganda
It is always the same tactic again and again and again. Constant variations of, “unions steal your money via dues and you have no guarantee of benefits then, but you do right now”.
It’s exhausting.
The same tactic, damn near the same words, are used for the same purpose since at least the 1800s. It works well enough that they just slightly modernize the language and that is that.
Bet hanging and handing out union material on company premises is an instant termination.
The one union job had was was great. Union got us good pay with benefits.
One of the many reasons why I refuse to buy anything on amazon.
Yes, union life is for you. JOIN A UNION!
Many states ban vote solicitation and signs within 50-200 ft of polling locations. I’m sure it’s only for state+ level votes, but it seems to me like having signs saying to vote NO directly on and adjacent to the voting machine for a legally protected union vote should be not legal…
They'd look better on fire.
not_that_guy05@lemmy.world 1 year ago
These posters make me want to organize.
tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It tells me that they think paying for graphics, ads etc are just a fraction of what I can gain.
toasteecup@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Same. They also want to make me commit acts of civil disobedience such as tearing all of them down.
nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I suspect that’s why it’s hanging right above the fingerprint/face scanner punchcard kiosk.