Trans people in Kansas are being ordered to surrender their drivers licenses
Submitted 11 hours ago by andros_rex@lemmy.world to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/0d48667b-d5cc-4b9d-aec8-01a8f4307ece.jpeg
Comments
SirMaple__@lemmy.ca 6 hours ago
Throbbing_banjo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 hours ago
“We apologize for the inconvenience this causes you.”
Yes I’m sure you fucking do.
andros_rex@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
If they try this shit in my state, I’d fucking sue.
I had surgery BECAUSE it would let me change my drivers license. I paid $5500 as a broke college student because I was getting turned down for jobs with that stupid “F.”
I don’t understand how any of this is legal. The constitution prohibits “ex post facto” laws - how can you revoke someone’s documentation when they complied with the laws as they were at the time?
CocaineShrimp@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
I don’t understand how any of this is legal
That’s the thing - It’s not. They don’t give a shit, and the judicial system isn’t doing anything about it
daychilde@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
how any of this is legal. The constitution
The problem is that you respect and believe in words. The people currently in charge could give two fucks. Ultimately, words only have the power that we give them, so when those in charge ignore the Constitution, then the Contitution has no power.
I have severe ADHD. It’s funny in a way because when I was younger, I tried to understand the rules of my employers and follow them. And yet I still lost jobs. In part because of issues related to ADHD specifically, but in part because what companies SAY the rules are is not what the rules are. If you’ve worked in a corporate environment, you know that there’s go-to people for things. And while there’s official processes (or maybe even not), what ACTUALLY happens is that someone goes to the person who can do something and asks them to do it, and generally they do, and that’s like 75% of how business actually runs.
In the same way, there are rules and decorum and traditions in politics and revolve around the Constution and various bodies of legislature, et cetera. And so there’s nothing that ACTUALLY forces anyone to follow any of that except voluntary compliance or physical threat because policing bodies enforce things.
This is why the rich are free, largely, from most crimes. They aren’t enforced. And this is how our democracy crumbled. The Constitution hasn’t been repealed. It doesn’t have to be. It is simply ignored. Worse, those who claim to follow it shit on it and ignore it and throw it out.
Witchfire@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
I’m currently outside the US but I need to renew my passport, which has had the correct gender marker and name for 10 years. Naturally they’re being butts about it, I’m pulling my hair doing this. The Nazi bastards don’t care
balsoft@lemmy.ml 5 hours ago
The constitution prohibits “ex post facto” laws - how can you revoke someone’s documentation when they complied with the laws as they were at the time?
I agree with you generally that this should be illegal, but it probably isn’t.
It definitely isn’t ex post facto; this is not a law that punishes anyone from a legal perspective, it merely changes the requirements for a certain privilege (the ability to drive a vehicle). If it declared these licenses invalid before the date of the law (which could carry punishments for illegally operating vehicles), then it would be ex post facto.
Another way to put it is that it simply makes a certain action illegal which was previously legal, and laws do that sort of thing all the time. Consider that in the US you didn’t need a driver’s license in order to drive at all until 1913. That NJ law also “revoked” someone’s privilege even though they complied with the laws previously, requiring them to get a permit that they didn’t need before. But, since it didn’t introduce any punishments for not having the permit before it was introduced, it wasn’t ex post facto.
Of course the law is also clearly discriminatory, but US’s extremely limited anti-discrimination laws are likely not broad enough to be applied here.
The current events should awaken many people to the sad fact that US laws and its entire legal system exists primarily to protect the wealthy and the powerful from everyone else; all other functions are secondary. As such, many horrible, immoral, and unjust things will be legal under US laws, and many others will be twisted into being legal by the supreme court.
Sconrad122@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
This letter reads to me like it is someone from the Kansas executive branch (run by Democrat Governor Laura Kelly) legitimately apologizing that they are bound by Republican made, veto-overridden law to cause this inconvenience, but maybe I’m being too generous
Throbbing_banjo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 hours ago
That could be the case, I suppose. If they really wanted to be assholes about it, they could just not send anything at all. This at least explains how the recipient is effected and what they can/need to do
Vorticity@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
That’s how I read this, too. The government isn’t a monolith that just agrees with every law they have to follow. They do have to follow the law until it is challenged, though. Hopefully courts in KS knock this down.
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 hours ago
Not only that, but bare in mind that most government employees are there to do a job. They don’t always agree with the laws they have to enforce and sometimes they will make it as challenging as possible for fascist ideas like this go through.
Complaining to them is like complaining to the checkout cashier at your grocery store that the prices are too high.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Nah, this is bipartisan cruelty. The Democratic governor maintained a list of trans people who changed their markers. How do you think they were able to send out these letters so fast? They already had a list of anyone that had changed their gender marker. That list was created on the order of a Democratic governor.
frunch@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
They might as well have said “THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER”
Wispy2891@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
The “your driver license is invalid immediately” is super fucking infuriating, especially in a country where without a driving license means being unemployable
Fucking scum, a driving license has nothing to do with sex. It is meant to prove that the cardholder is able to drive a vehicle or not.
Luckily I live in a continent where the cardholder sex isn’t mentioned at all in the driving license (eu directive of 2006)
starman2112@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
It boils my fucking blood that my tax dollars are paying for this
ronl2k@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
How is this different from the feds requiring passports to use their birth certificate sex designation?
andros_rex@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Fed isn’t revoking current passports. I’ve heard stories of renewals being returned to natal sex (and confiscated, but fewer incidents of that), but not “your current identification is invalid and you need to replace it ASAP.”
Do you realize how terrifying that would be? Get pulled over for a burned out tail light, your drivers license doesn’t count any more (realistically - how quickly could you clear out a day to visit the DMV?)
You can’t vote till you replace it? Kansas is probably following some ALEC/P26 playbook, and other states will follow. Closer to midterms likely.
I occasionally like to travel to rural areas. I used to spend a great deal of time volunteering in rural areas. Places where an incongruity between appearance and classification could be harmful. Minimum is being unable to grab a beer perhaps, but i don’t think it takes much imagination for other outcome.
Why do licenses need gender or sex at all?
Mulligrubs@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
I wonder how many billions the USA has been wasted on crap legislation just like this.
I would think it would be worse for the license holder AND whatever law agency to be listed as “M” when they look “F”, and tie up a lot of resources over nothing but another power trip.
So now you must hire a “medical professional” to exam and of course they will be paid by the state.
Then they’ll need to make a new law enforcement division with a clever acronym, like T.E.D.
Then scanners at bathrooms with attending physician on call
Minimum wage is seven dollars an hour. Union membership is now mostly government employees and down to 10%.
STOCK MARKET 50K THOUGH
ronl2k@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
I would think it would be worse for the license holder AND whatever law agency to be listed as “M” when they look “F”,
That works both ways though, when an “F” on the license is for someone who is 6’3" with quarterback shoulders and five-o’clock shadow.
tarsakos@lemmy.world 21 minutes ago
Just say your biology education ended at middle school. It’s okay.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 28 minutes ago
And you don’t see the glaring contradictions in your beliefs? You complain about non-passing trans people with one breath. With the next, you condemn minors receiving gender-affirming healthcare! The entire reason there’s a desire to not wait until kids are 18 is to avoid years of the wrong sex puberty that can make it very hard for trans people to assimilate into their gender as an adult!
Critical thinking is dead.
smiletolerantly@awful.systems 1 hour ago
I think the trans movement dug a deep hole for itself when it promoted transition surgery for minors.
We didn’t. Noone is even advocating for that. That is 100% a right-wing straw-man.
That works both ways though, when an “F” on the license is for someone who is 6’3" with quarterback shoulders and five-o’clock shadow.
Exactly, and now there’s gonna be a ton of beardy, muscly men who are forced to revert to an “F” on their licenses.
minnow@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Your right to self identify doesn’t exist under fascist rule. Identify as you’re told, or face the consequences.
Today it’s gender. I wonder what facet of identity they’ll seek to control tomorrow. Sexual orientation? Religion? Political affiliation?
4am@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
Race.
Oh, you can’t change that? Well, the penalty’s pretty stiff, unfortunately…
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
In for a penny in for a pound. Might as well push another fascist in the ground.
GalacticSushi@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 hours ago
Sorry, you’re practicing Islam which is a clear violation of our Christian citizens’ constitutionally protected freedom from other religions. Oh hey, tell your Jewish neighbors not to go too far.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
“Sorry, that job is for men. What are you, some filthy tr*nny?”
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
we apologize the inconvenience this causes you
Whenever you see this line, anywhere, you know that they’re saying “fuck you and what are you going to do about it, eh?”
I mean, we’re 5 steps away from eugenics, and we’we sowwy for the inconvenience!
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
The goal is literally to inspire acts of violence by trans people. You can only persecute a community so much before the more unstable elements in that community start lashing out violently against anyone they can blame. That’s the goal here. They’re actively trying to create trans mass shooters. You demonize and persecute a minority. When some return your violence, you use that to justify further persecution.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I’m not trans, but I’m considering it. As someone posted above, respect my trans homies, or I’ll identify as a fucking problem.
I am patient and intelligent. And very. Very. Fucking. Angry.
I cannot be alone.
deathbird@mander.xyz 2 hours ago
I think it’s likely sincere. Lots of space between apologies for “the inconvenience” and the more traditional “any inconvenience.”
The bureaucrat who had to write up this letter letting people know their IDs were going to be insta-invalidated was not a party to passing the law, and probably doesn’t like telling people things like this.
themeatbridge@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
The cruelty is the point.
transMexicanCRTcowfart@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
Oh, but they “apologize for the inconvenience”.
stinerman@feddit.online 9 hours ago
The DMV might actually be sorry about it. The governor (who oversees the DMV) vetoed the bill, but the legislature overrode the veto. If it was up to the governor, this law would have never been in place.
Tiresia@slrpnk.net 8 hours ago
The point is also to disempower you and render you unable to resist extermination.
Within the next three years, we will either see a second American revolution or the mass execution of trans people who have done nothing wrong (though they will naturally be classified as sex offenders and felons).
themeatbridge@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
We’re already engaged in the mass incarceration and extrajudicial murder of immigrants and dissenters. People seem reluctant to rebel.
Pavidus@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
This is total horse shit, but not even a grace period? That’s extra evil.
GalacticSushi@piefed.blahaj.zone 6 hours ago
Don’t have a friend who can drive you to the DMV? Can’t afford to pay for a ride? Don’t live close to a bus stop? Please drive to the nearest DMV office where you will be arrested for operating a motor vehicle with a license that we invalidated just hours ago. Sorry for the inconvenience that we put a lot of effort into inflicting on you.
JoshuaFalken@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
First they came for the transgendered, and I didn’t speak up because they didn’t allot a public comment period.
Treczoks@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Scum state with an even worse government.
Typhoon@lemmy.ca 6 hours ago
You misspelled country.
Wataba@sh.itjust.works 8 hours ago
Why would America allow an openly transphobic government into power like this?
Oh right…
Horsey@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
This is Kansas, one of the hard red states. It’s moving to purple, but as of now, it’s fairly red.
daychilde@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
“Purple America” is a concept that’s been around a bit, has a wiki article. Long and short of it is that we really are two nations in one country, and surprisingly mixed.
The “standard” way of representing red/blue states is highly misleading. It’s mixed. Everywhere. Even rural.
I lived in the panhandle of Florida, a pretty “red” area. It was still ⅓ blue and only ⅔ red in Panama City. Out in the country, it gets worse of course, but the point is that land doesn’t vote, so you have to remember to count that area for less.
There are very-red and very-blue areas, but it’s really more of a mix than is portrayed.
…which unfortunately makes it even harder to sort out the two nations should we decide to cease sharing this country.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 8 hours ago
Ultimately, the answer always goes back to capitalism by way of the pedophile billionaires that run the world.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
Is there any kind of charitable support fund to assist trans folk that want to get out of shit holes like Kansas? I guess it might be subject to abuse by the large number of cis folks that want to get out of Kansas too, but still.
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
TransContinentalPipeline
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
andros_rex@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Know of any resources for Pennsylvania? Not in KS but close.
Not even wanting money really, just how the fuck do I figure out how to move halfway across the country? OK isn’t revoking licenses, but in ‘28 when I renew it’ll probably say “F,” which ain’t conducive to my employment.
dewritoninja@pawb.social 5 hours ago
How long until they do this with passports?
SethTaylor@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Haven’t they already? I saw a video of Hunter Schaffer saying she’d been issued an M passport in the first few days of Trump’s 2nd term
BeardededSquidward@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
They’ve tried doing this at the national level, so it’s in the works.
poccalyps@sh.itjust.works 11 hours ago
Fuck Kansas
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Why stop at sex at birth. Add height at birth, weight at birth, baby photo etc.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 11 hours ago
So… Cycling is the best trans inclusive transportation method?
Skullgrid@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
yes, they did this for the benefit of trans people /s
ServantOfRa@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 hours ago
Always was.
Peanutbjelly@sopuli.xyz 10 hours ago
Actually evil.
This exists for no reason other than to intentionally harm a small and already marginalized group.
It’s a shame that fighting groups like the heritage foundation needed to take a couple decade backseat for insane cultural warring based entirely on misrepresenting each other and refusing to communicate.
And trying to point out that fact got you labeled as “enemy group” by everyone involved, and most people aren’t involved enough to tell the difference between things like faux opposition within the establishment, and legitimate progressive groups with separate but legitimate grievances.
Get the peasants fighting the peasants, because if you pump enough noise into the environment, people just stop trying to comprehend outside of their bubble.
These monsters will destroy the world in order to apply their fickle bigotry.
Fuck the heritage foundation, bohemian grove, atlas network, and their myriad of other shapes used to obfuscate while affecting control. The rich have class solidarity, and they’ve done an amazing job getting everyone else to fight themselves.
Trans rights are human rights.
Mwa@thelemmy.club 9 hours ago
This makes me feel bad for Trans people even more.
Witchfire@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
We’ve always been one of the main groups targeted by Nazis, but never s part of the discussions
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 8 hours ago
“Those magic slippers will take you home in two seconds!”
“Yeah, naw, Imma stay here in Oz.”
Valorie12@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Toto, I don’t think we’re in Kansas anymore…
Thank fuck.
samus12345@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
Toto was even played by a bitch!
unmagical@lemmy.ml 10 hours ago
This also costs money and can threaten their ability to vote.
brad_troika@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
How?
unmagical@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
They just effectively expired all trans Kansan drivers licenses. If they want to drive or use their drivers licenses as an ID they need to pay about $30 to get a new one.
zikzak025@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Kansas requires voters to present a state-issued form of ID to be able to vote, which is almost always going to be a driver’s license or a state ID, both of which are affected by this change. If the license/ID is invalidated, no ability to vote.
Given that midterms are coming up, this could easily be seen as a deliberate move to disenfranchise members of the trans community from having a voice at a key moment in politics.
andros_rex@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
The SAVE Act will make it harder to vote if your documentation doesn’t match your birth certificate. (article is from last year, but the bill just now passed the House I believe.)
It costs money to get a drivers license replaced.
Madison420@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Just appeal and force them to prove you’re guilty of having the wrong gender on your id. It will be extremely difficult for them to do especially given the number of appeals that could happen almost at once.
kungen@feddit.nu 7 hours ago
Nice thought, but the law says “sex at birth”, they probably know it from social security records or whatever. And your “incorrect” license isn’t valid while waiting for appeals… and it’s not like they’d prioritize it anyways. Messed up situation.
Madison420@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Doesn’t matter they’d still have to prove it in court and that is going to eat huge parts of their budget and insane amounts of manpower diverted from actually running the state.
Agent641@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
But for the duration of the appeal you won’t have a valid drivers license, as it says in the letter, credentials are invalidated immediately. This is the pressure game. You can appeal and walk everywhere with no valid ID, or you can drive and risk getting pulled over and arrested for having an invalid ID and put into the wrong gender prison.
HonorableScythe@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Done properly, it could result in a judge issuing a stay on the order and preventing it from being enforced while the results are worked out in court. That’s not uncommon.
Tiger666@lemmy.ca 4 hours ago
Prison for no ID, what is this MAGA America? (Like when people say: What is this Nazi Germany?)
null@lemmy.org 8 hours ago
This’ll be used as a tool to disenfranchise trans voters who didn’t kneel.
sudo_shinespark@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
I would get upset, but you gotta consider those 8 chapters in the bible about transitioning is wrong and makes god angry /s
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 10 hours ago
First they born Trans, and that’s already a pain in the ass, then they feel bad because of gender dysphoria and and then society decide to make that worse by telling bullshit to them and exclude them from being considered humans 😭
Tiger666@lemmy.ca 4 hours ago
At least they apologized. ///////ssssssssss
foodandart@lemmy.zip 11 hours ago
Gullible@sh.itjust.works 10 hours ago
How’d you make a fully blank comment? Even the raw info is blank.
kamenlady@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Gork@sopuli.xyz 10 hours ago
Time to bring out the pitchforks.
CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 17 minutes ago
What the fuck do the genitals I had at birth have to do with my ability to drive a car?