Submitted 3 weeks ago by ramble81@lemmy.zip to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
So now we can add “directly capturing a sovereign leader” to the list of crap the US has done. So what do you think will actually be “the straw that broke the camels back” for world leaders to actually do something? Think it’ll be significant or something mundane?
World war 3
Or just a US revolution could work. We don’t have to kill everyone.
That would be a good solution but world war 3 looks more probable
Half of America actively support this shit. They are a LONG way from doing anything about this themselves.
How is the US population to unite, self organize into militias and erect barricades with the current surveillance state and social media polarization?
Americans are staying at home doom scrolling and getting angry about their scarecrow neighbors they are made to dislike.
We know for sure that Americans are not ready to do anything more than voting and praying to answer any form of the social question. Haven’t been for a while. We’re on the slope of them not caring about the political question either. It’s all bread, circuses and surveillance algorithms.
Even that’s just a bandaid fix because it should really be all genuine humans against all other humans that play “the game”.
People want a turn to drive the hate bus. There’s an idea that the US is the nexus of racism and slavery, but someone had to sell the slaves and I’m guessing if you went to a place like Thailand and started calling everyone Vietnamese (or vice versa), there’d be some problems sooner than later.
So the destruction of life on this planet? Yeah you’re right.
I am just predicting. I wish a more peaceful way
That will make them even richer…
Not if they are the losers of the war
just vote Democrat
jesus, we live in a world of tankies
you are no better than tankies for defending the lesser of the warmongers
It might have already happened…
Capturing a foreign leader you’re not at war with like this is a huge fucking deal, but it hasn’t even been 24 hrs yet, we can’t act like there won’t be a response.
Not anything overt, but our election system is sloppy as fuck.
Why wouldn’t foreign governments start using all the loopholes to pay (relatively) nothing to limit his powers in midterms and get rid of him in the presidential? A couple million thru a PAC isn’t even really breaking any laws, and compared to the cost of the chaos from trump, it’s a no brainer decision.
It’s why turnout for primaries is so important. We have to ensure that the people who make it to the general are going to be good in office.
Friendly nations do not meddle in each others elections. Russia did because they are NOT a friendly nation, and to sow discourse. Israel does it also because they are not a friendly nation, they are focused 100% on their own agenda.
Trump/MAGA has already intervened in elections in for instance EU, and that’s because USA is no longer a friendly nation to EU.
But I seriously doubt most of USA’s traditional allies will meddle in USA’s election, because it’s just not something you do.
If you play by the rules while your enemy doesn’t, you’ll be destroyed. Machiavelli said as much. So USA’s traditional allies have to start playing dirty to survive.
Friendly nations do not meddle in each others elections.
A naive view. US has always promoted Atlanticist candidates, and has complete control over EU parliament appointees who are all pro NATO, and especially pro NATO subservience. That people view this as the will of the people, and the opposite, election interference is the greatest trick the devil ever pulled off.
You’re right this will (or should anyway) invite a major international response. But it won’t be attacking our elections.
It’ll be in international politics and economics.
Were I in charge of another nation, I’d immediately end all diplomatic ties with us. Deporting all US embassy/consolate staff and diplomats. Possibly even visa holders. I’d also end whatever exports my nation made to the US. Buying the goods from my nation’s companies myself. If my nations banks had any money of US nationals, it would be frozen.
But that’s just me. We’ll see what they decide to do.
The visa holders are often the people fleeing the US
But who? The EU views Maduro as illegitimate, as does most of the US allies.
If other counties boycotted instead of caving into demands, that would have an influence.
This isn’t the first time the US has done
“directly capturing a sovereign leader”
No, this is different and completely unprecedented.
We went into a foreign country, abducted their leader, and brought him back to America to be tried under our justice system for laws he was never subject to for crimes he almost had nothing to do with.
I’d love to see a source for America abducting the leader of a country we’re not at war with, and bringing them to America for trial.
Ok I’ll bite: en.wikipedia.org/…/United_States_invasion_of_Pana…
I think we did that to Hawaii. And now it’s a state.
Don’t read much, do you?
Importantly other countries aren’t that mad about it either. I saw some posts about Trump making comments that seemed to suggest that mexico and canada could be targeted in the future for intervention related to drugs, so I went to canadian news sites to see what was up. The canadian government is basically like, “I’m not angry, I’m disappointed” and mostly because it goes against the norms of polite imperialism.
I won’t link to her twitter account, but here is the statement: Image
Alt text:
The Hon. Anita Anand Minister of Foreign Affairs
Since 2019, when Canada closed its embassy in Venezuela, we have refused to recognize any legitimacy of the Maduro regime and opposed its repression of the Venezuelan people, including the persecution of dissenters and particularly political leaders opposed to the regime.
In keeping with our long-standing commitment to upholding the rule of law and democracy, Canada calls on all parties to respect international law and we stand by the people of Venezuela and their desire to live in a peaceful and democratic society.
Canada is engaging with its international partners and monitoring developments closely.
Canada stands ready to assist Canadians in need through our consular officials and embassy in Bogotá, Colombia.
I think it’s the first time they do it without international support.
Yeah but it has been quite uneventful for 50 years, for what I know.
World leaders should:
China and Russia are already doing most of these. So they’re not afraid to raise their voice against America.
Japan and UK (both struggling economies) hold the highest amount of US debt. Third is China which is steadily selling.
Giving all power to China, would corrupt it almost instantly, and turn it into USA V2. I don’t recommend leaving all power in one country, if you want prosperity.
Giving all power to China, would corrupt it almost instantly, and turn it into USA V2.
China is already extremely corrupt, they’re simply using militarised corruption instead of a military to exploit developing countries.
Just like power has corrupted America, Britain and other European nations in the past.
That’s why we’re going for a multi-polar world this time. No country’s currency will be the reserve currency. We can use Gold or bitcoin instead.
I don’t want to give all power to China.
Or the European TARGET system. Already in place, and works like a charm.
Lmao give China more power
European capitalists already did by moving all factories to China.
Every country in the world already trades with China, it’s impossible not to. So why not use their currency?
Right! I’m shocked anyone would want that. I just told someone else it’s like leaving an abusive partner for an even more abusive partner. I’ve noticed countries being pushed towards China after the US went even more crazy after Trump winning. I believe they are making a mistake. Japan, South Korea and Taiwan could fulfill most of the same needs as China does and do so better. Just as a random example Japanese capacitors are known for their high quality. Japan and China both supply capacitors. Why not bolster Japan’s instead of China’s?
You forgot about all intra-continental internet cables going through US routers and oil being traded in USD.
I mentioned oil. Stop doing ALL trades in USD. Use Euro, Yuan or gold.
The cables tho, we’ll have to build new ones, something no single country can control.
Pretty sure this is what the techno-garchs want.
I think it has to be a major financial crash and/or a big war
I’m genuinely curious what would happen if the US lost nearly all of their foreign investors and all/nearly all of their major trading partners. (I understand that this is highly unlikely, but so was the thought that another world war would happen and happen in less than 50 years. I’m also tired of holding my breath on these things…)
The US as a country has vast natural resources, a lot of space, and a large educated population. There are two very long coasts, enabling trade by sea across the globe.
Investors fleeing and trade collapsing would lead to a major crisis and necessitate restructuring the economy. It’s important to remember that money leaving the country, doesn’t mean the physical assets like buildings, machines, trained workforce, and infrastructure leave as well. Production of goods for export would lead to too much supply of some things, with a lack of imported goods.
Lots of international trade could be replaced by domestic production. The US might actually be able to pull off an economy closed off to much of the world better than any other country. The reindustrialization and transformation of the economy would take a couple of years to a decade, with lots of hardship.
Still the US produces so much food and has an overproduction of pretty much all agricultural goods, that widespread hunger is unlikely. The agricultural sector already depends on subsidies snd regulation. So the bureaucracy and infrastructure is already in place to keep it going and steer it.
Culturally Americans are used to dynamic markets, adapting to change, and entrepreneurial spirit. That’s a further asset for being able to transform and economy.
Finally because of the easy access to the oceans and a powerful navy to protect their trade, the US can be very flexible regarding who they trade with. New tradingpartners will show up quickly.
Of course this discussion is a bit moot without talking about the world political stage this happens in.
tl;dr there would a shortage of goods, economic turmoil, no famine, stable energy production, likely a swift recovery
But mostly a major financial crash
And usually after/during a financial crash the US goes to war
For starters, not relying on US payment processors.
This is realistically the best thing we can do as outsiders. Find other ways and don’t input foreign money into the war coffers.
I’m quite proud of the Canadian dip in tourism and how nearly all of the produce that came from the US at my grocery store now comes from Mexico and Peru.
The EU might have a rollout of the digital euro soon… Soon being 2029 for the initial rollout because that is fast for us.
Euro bonds, the EU needs to start issuing bonds
I’ve never understood why no country does this yet. They have the capital. Even when the US swings its dick around and sanctions ICC judges because they actually do the job they’ve been assigned to do no one does shit. Just let’s it happen.
USAmericans have shown a complete inability to rise up against their government. This is not surprising given our crushing economic system, the fragility of our lives, and cultural landscape of the USA. At this point I believe Resistance has to come from outside the USA. This is unlikely due to the USA’s extensive nuclear arsenal.
I foresee the USA going the way of China and Russia, steadily oppressing its people, enriching its oligarchs, and occasionally creating problems for the world. Greenland may very well be the USA’s version of China constantly threatening to seize Taiwan.
No time to rebel, too many bills to pay.
USAmericans have shown a complete inability to rise up against their government.
You realize, surely, that they chose the government.
Not even a little, the US has never been a democracy at all, or a particularly good representative republic
At last China is still capable of building infrastructure for the benefit of its citizens. I’m envious of their high speed rail network.
Time. A regime as dysfunctional as this can’t go on indefinitely… Like, it is physically impossible for it to think far enough ahead for it to be resilient enough to last. Unfortunately, a lot of good people will suffer before then.
Franco’s regime in Spain lasted decades. Actually so did the fascists in Italy…
complete worldwide boycott of american products. America is run by oligarchs who only care about money. They’d fold overnight.
Not a boycott of products, a divestment from the dollar and the US stock market. Sell all treasury bonds. It’s possible.
Using the Euro as the standard currency for oil would do it in a week.
Either the US invades Europe to prevent it or the country collapses.
My best guess is mass riots/civil war. The main reasons why it’s not happening yet are because Trump still has a good number of supporters and because Americans are - rightfully - afraid of their police (or soldiers) killing them.
Trump is steadily losing his supporters every week, and the number of people at risk of dying due to lack of food or healthcare is increasing. If your life is at serious risk anyway, might as well get a shot at a revolution. And the more people willing to do it with you, the better the chances.
However, I’m not sure how realistic this scenario is. I’m concerned that a change of government for a slightly better one may be enough for most Americans to calm down. After all, they’re very much used to being abused by their elites, whether they realize it or not.
At this point, every single country should be embargoing the US. It’s well past that point that we cut them off from the world stage entirely economically.
Literally NOTHING.
The us has the largest military by far even when combining the contenders militaries. Add to that most world “leaders” are feckless cowards just looking for their next payout. There will be no stopping the US. :(
Realistically, global trade drying up. Canada, Mexico, the EU, and others just refusing to do business with the US. Or possibly, making deals on a state-by-state basis, such as exchanging with California and New York, while ignoring Texas. By doing something like that, foreign nations can help prop up anti-conservative states, while bleeding conservatives lily white.
Mutual military agreements, such as retooling NATO to exclude the US and incorporating Canada, Mexico, and Taiwan might happen as well. The US has ceded their mutual exchange with Taiwan, other powers like India would like to have those chips. Maybe the EU outright allying with Ukraine, to remove Russia from play and to secure Ukraine’s grain, oil, and expertise on warfare.
…In short, it will be a couple decades of work to stop the Turdpublican agenda through diplomatic pressure. Probably around a decade if WW3 or a 2nd American Civil War happens.
WW3 fought in mainland USA…
The usa has only ever benefitted from war… once they taste it at home and have cities to rebuild, they may drop the deadly combination of chicken hawk and apathy that seems to be their take on war
Follow the money.
See all those billionaire tech cunts propping him up? Sanction them. Ban their software. Block their psy-op social media websites.
Well, if you take good old-fashioned violence out of the picture, money. Or specifically a lack of it.
Sanctions, selling off US debt, more retaliatory tariffs, blacklisting US investors and companies, anything that pulls cash out of the US economy and puts it somewhere else. Turn off the money tap, make the mega-donors hurt bad enough and the dystopia machine will eventually grind to a halt. Don’t think for a moment that the current squad of high-functioning sociopaths that are enabling this are principled enough to stay the course after a few of their mega-yachts are repossessed. They’ll flip sides again and again just to try and keep that horde they’ve built up. Someone just has to prove to them that the threat is serious, because right now, they think everyone else is helpless against them.
Additionally, the majority of Trump voters cited the economy as a primary reason for voting for him. A good portion of them were probably lying to cover for being racist and just wanted to see POC and the LGBTQ+ community suffer, but if you crash the US economy hard enough, you can still hijack a big chunk of Trump’s public support. It’s the same as with mega-yachts, but here we’re talking pickup trucks, ATVs, and rent-to-own furniture.
Few problems with this. 1. It’s slow. 2. It’ll hurt everyone else economically because US businesses have hooks set real deep in a lot of places. 3. Other nations have a wealthy elite with similar sway who want Trump in power for various reasons and might not play along. & 4. Whoever replaces the US might turn out to be just as big as bully in a few years if we’re not careful.
Still, it needs to be done.
The US has directly captured or supported the overthrow of multiple heads of state. Nobody has ever done anything and they won’t now.
Too many Americans are actually supportive of this so there won’t be any major domestic repercussions. Maybe some hearings in Congress.
America is not going to fix itself. The corruption is built in. For the last 50 years (roughly), the system has been changed to make the people dumb and complacent; to make the President a puppet king who answers to the wealthy.
Regimes like this only respond to incredible violence. They believe rules and laws and norms that don’t serve them don’t apply to them. All the systems designed to resist this bullshit are ignored completely because they just opt out of society’s rules while rewriting them on the fly to serve exclusively them.
This ends a couple of different ways. One is they encounter a bigger bully. They are all loyalists that cannot strategize, cooperate, and execute a plan. It’s yes men all the way down. So if someone powerful enough takes a swing, they don’t have the ability to respond. In this case, Canada invading the US with resources supplied by other nations concerned they are next makes the most sense. This administration wouldn’t be able to respond with anything other than tantrums online and on TV.
The other way this ends is letting them do whatever they want. They need an enemy to survive. Eventually they run out of enemies and have to invent new ones. We are already at that point. They divide the population up into good guys and bad guys and eliminate the bad guys, then they do it again, getting smaller and smaller each time until there’s no longer enough people left to sustain them. This is not the way we want as most of the US would have to die off for it to work but it is sort of the default mode of extinction for fascism.
The only method that works with fascists and results in the fewest casualties is incredible overwhelming violence. It’s been done before and worked because it was the best option, even if it’s still a terrible one.
But here’s where the propaganda machine protects the fascists. People are already ready for the incredible violence. The country is on a cliff edge right now. But we are so divided and dependent on TV and social media that we are told to attack eachother instead of the fascists. Most of us don’t want to do that.
So we wait for extinction.
Someone who’s around 40 should take for the team and run for President in the 2028 election and campaign the way Zohran Mamdani did when he ran for mayor - run on a left-populist class conscious platform. Seriously!
So what do you think will actually be “the straw that broke the camels back” for world leaders to actually do something?
Frankly? Nothing. Nothing happened after Iraq, nothing happened after Afghanistan, nothing will happen after Venezuela.
Russia invaded Ukraine and was immediately under many sanctions. I don’t get why the world doesn’t treat the US the same way. Aside from greed.
Mother Nature: cracks knuckles “lemme in, coach”
Do to the US what the US has been doing for 150 years.
Invest heavily in local anti government revolutionist organizations and support their efforts covertly. You know, like Russia and China have already been doing for 30 years.
Most of these answers here are not viable because the US has leverage in almost every nation on earth.
Venezuela, Iran, Russia, China, etc are the exception, hence why they are sanctioned (and constantly suffering problems with every new CIA project) bar China which is locked in a trade war and has a sizable military to back themselves up.
You would realistically require a counter world power that offers an alternative to the US system, which used to be the USSR which no longer exists.
China is poised as the next superpower, but they haven’t made any significant moves in that regard because they are wary of the USSR’s downfall, and have no intention of engaging the USA in that manner (yet).
Everyone in the UN, despite all their cries, will fall in line when threatened, aside from the aforementioned exceptions.
It’s a slow, ongoing process. The more the US tries to use force to make countries fall in line, the more people look to alternatives. Countries that used to be unaligned are looking at China and countries that used to be aligned with the US are looking at playing the field.
Unfortunately, nothing will happen, as nobody has done anything despite the Epstein files, the deportations and externalized concentration camps, the Capitol, the international bullying and racket, etc. Trump serves the interest of the filthy rich, is backed by tech nazies and other kind of moguls (and p3d0s) and commands the most powerful army in the world. His attack on Venezuela is even approved by libs. And even if Trump himself was somehow unalived, the entire system that allowed his rise to power would still be there. The nazies trumpists would still be there.
Better just declare the American hegemony dead and disengage from any form of partnership with the USA. At least, Trump has the merit of exposing the USA for what they truly are : an alienating, morally bankrupt nation and fascist empire.
My take is that US is already on massive decline. I’m not an american but I am a big fan of US and I’ve never seen US this weak even if you ignore how ugly it is under current leadership. I honestly don’t know how US will ever recover from this trump presidency and it seems like nothing but down hill from here.
mycodesucks@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I hate to say it, but there’s no fast answer to that question.
The best answer seems to be what most smart countries are doing right now… slowly unwinding their dependency on the US and finding alternative suppliers for everything critical they need so they can get the leverage they need to criticize and resist. This has the added benefit of isolating the US economically, reducing its currency’s ability to influence things.
Over time the US will grow less and less able to throw its weight around, and eventually a tipping point will be reached where picking an ideological fight with the US won’t have a major impact. That’s when the US will be stopped.
ramble81@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Logically that makes sense for an elongated timeline, but that also assumes the US doesn’t ramp up their actions, which sadly seems to be the case. So the question is “what then?”
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Nations can’t ignore the fact that the US has one of the active militaries in the world. Our Navy is more of less second to none and we have nukes. In the hands of a normal president, we might be fine but you sure as heck know that Trump and his Project 2025 people are just itching to launch one.
This is a situation where there are no good options. The best you can do is continue political pressure, get other nations to rally behind you in the hopes of creating a strong economic resistance.
But the real answer is that we, the US citizens, need to fucking take this country back. I hate to say it but protests simply aren’t enough anymore.
brachiosaurus@mander.xyz 3 weeks ago
There’s is indeed a fast and peaceful answer: vote third parties.
Natanael@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
Doesn’t work in single vote winner-takes-all elections. You need something like RCV first
Soulg@ani.social 3 weeks ago
Ah yes, because the Democrats are just as bad and would’ve done all this anyway!!! Why did nobody else think of that!!!
edible_funk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Remember kids, in first past the post a vote for third party is a vote for republicans.
sobchak@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I think the wealthy will get US/corporate-friendly far-right governments in place in many of these countries before countries are able to isolate the US without collapsing their own economy. Seems to be the way things are going at least (far-right politics gaining support nearly everywhere).
lechekaflan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What Mainland China is trying to do: win countries deemed to have been alienated by the Americans.