Submitted 2 months ago by kalkulat@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://supercarblondie.com/electric-motor-yasa-more-powerful-tesla-mercedes/
Maker website: yasa.com/…/yasa-smashes-own-unofficial-power-dens…
Had an ex-friend who was a motorhead arguing that electric motors will never beat ICE because they lack comparable torque. Look, I’m no mechanic, but I never got my head around that.
“You mean they don’t have enough torque to run a US destroyer?! Someone should call the Navy.”
Seriously, if you’ve played with even a tiny electric motor, provide DC, it goes, instantly. What could he have possibly been trying to say?
I think he was trying to admit he doesn’t know shit about electric motors.
Tool companies need to nerf electric motors in drills to prevent wrists from breaking.
My parents had an original Prius and it was a weedy little car that made those two hippies really happy. If that was his only experience with electric cars I can see why he’d think that.
But the new ones are fucking rockets. I just don’t understand why they need all that. Can they make a cheaper one that’s got 300 horsepower?
. I just don’t understand why they need all that.
Power sells, they can give that insane 0-60 sprint for very low cost, so it gets people to buy their product instead of a 6 liter V8.
I put my hybrid into sport mode when I actually need the acceleration, like quick highway merges or cramped city turns in traffic. If I kept it in eco mode like I normally do, or even just normal mode, the acceleration would be limited and I’d either be unable to merge or would cause an accident.
Yeah drivers in my area are shitty, I know. Unfortunately I can’t flip a switch and change their behavior.
Also sometimes it’s just plain fun to go zoom (when safe, obviously).
The electric motor capacity also accounts for scenarios like a heavily loaded car going uphill with poor weather conditions.
And because it always can dump full power into the wheels instantly, unlike ICE cars (which are forced to burn an insanely wasteful amount of fuel to compete) that means every EV made for normal use has ridiculous acceleration
What could he have possibly been trying to say?
I mean, the general appeal of ICE engines is the fuel, not the engine. Gasoline is generally more energy dense than lithium.
Nah, his complaint was lack of torque. Very strange, never got it. Figured he was repeating fossil fuel propaganda. But he was a motorhead!
And yes, energy density is the thing no one talks about when raging against fossil fuels. A gallon of refined gasoline packs insane energy. I’ve run my 5-gallon, crappy Harbor Freight generator all night into the morning, powering the camp, heaters and all, never came close to emptying it. Contrast that with a monster LIPO4 battery that died in 48-hours only powering LED lights. (Gotta admit, something weird happened there.)
“EVs lack comparable torque to ICE” - guy in my rearview mirror
He was trying to say that he spent too much time in a media bubble disconnected from reality.
These same idiots tell me my hybrid battery will only last 20,000 miles a cost $50,000 to replace. Yeah sure.
Electric motors don’t have a torque curve like ICE, which is why they don’t need a transmission. Those massive submarines run on electric motors.
I need to torque a shit
Everything but metric.
They’re based in the UK, they have no excuse.
Likely just the article
Did they update the page since you commented? I see kw and kg on there… 🤷
Ah good thing the batteries are not the heavy part of the syatem otherwise this would be awkward.
This motor weighs 12.7 kilograms and has 1000hp. How much does a comparable motor weigh?
There is a 1000 hp tesla with 3 motors that all together weights about 450 killograms, this seems to support your idea until you look at how much the batteries weigh…
The batteries are 550 kilograms to start, and are generally considered to not be big enough. So yeah, great they solved the issue that no EV had (EVs always had lighter motors, and very heavy batteries).
Doomer comment
I wonder if we’ll ever get enough standardization across EVs so people can start doing the electric equivalent of an LS swap. I could see this being done on a Slate truck, along with an auxiliary EV battery bolted in the back.
It’s more about the batteries than the motor. You can make a motor that sucks down as much power as you want. The battery can’t necessarily provide that without damage.
Hopefully solid-state batteries (once their production managed to ramp up to consumer vehicle scale) could allow for higher capacity and power delivery without the limitations or safety risks of current battery tech.
Could power it with a gas turbine 😅
Until someone tests it independently, this should be considered BS.
I’ll give them some credence based on the cars their motors are already used in and the fact that their parent company is Mercedes-Benz. Doesn’t look like they’re a bunch of grifters seeking investment.
I suppose, but I’m skeptical of car manufacturer claims, too, until independent testing is done.
I hope this is real and think it’s awesome, but will wait to see if they exaggerated.
This looks small enough to be installed within the wheel hub itself. Imagine a car with four motors, one inside each wheel. The entire floor pan could just be one thin battery, and everything above it could be passenger and storage space.
That’s how EVs started! Sorta.
But it’s impractical.
It increases unsprung weight, e.g. weight not cushioned by suspension. Bad for ride/handling/steering feel.
All that vibration is HARD on the motor. Read: unreliable.
Motor is more exposed to temperature/dust. Again, reliability.
In reality, a decent suspension needs a lot of room under the body anyway. An axle to get the motor in the body is dirt cheap on the rear, and still pretty cheap on the front, and you could just mount this thing sideways to make it flat…
That would be a lot of unsprung weight.
Handling and ride quality are dramatically and negatively impacted by every bit of weight that is not held up by the suspension. That’s why higher performance cars will have lightweight wheels. Rather than steel wheels you see on lower performance cars.
It’s better to just put all the heavy drive components inboard on the chassis and run drive shafts to the wheels.
You see motors in the hubs of bicycles, because they really don’t go that fast. So even if the bike has a suspension, it’s not that big of a deal. Motorcycles on the other hand would need to keep any heavy parts inboard.
Steel wheels haven’t been common on anything but really cheap cars for a few decades now, but in general your point holds true. There’s heavier and lighter alloy wheels out there.
Still, these could be just tiny motors connected to the wheels via a short shaft on the rear especially. Instead of the huge monstrosities most EVs currently seem to use which are huge, as they also include gearing and such. Still leaves more space for battery without having to go unsprung with hub motors.
PS
One issue I hadn’t thought of is putting traditional brakes (which generate a ton of heat) right next to the motors. Again, we’re just asking for mechanical issues here, and we’re ballooning unsprung mass to mitigate it, especially in heavier cars that take a lot to stop.
The entire floor pan could just be one thin battery, and everything above it could be passenger and storage space.
This seems like a minor thing, but the control electronics for the motors takes up a nontrivial amount of space. So do “traditional” subsystems like hydraulics, climate control, or an old fashioned car battery (which often exists in parallel to the EV drivetrain).
Theres also safety to consider. A traditional sedan “hood,” even a small one, is easier on standing pedestrians, so it hits their legs and they flop on top, instead of slamming them like a wall (as a bus/truck front would).
Aptera wanted to do this with their flagship Solar Electric Vehicle (SEV).
IIRC, they switched to an outwheel motor because of the weight the inwheel motors added to the wheels. Could be wrong tho
Aptera
LOL. Coming soon…since 2009
Hub motors are a party trick. They will never reach mass market.
They work well on bikes. I could appreciate 1000bhp hub on my 12kg touring bike. 🤭
German company DeepDrive has some kinda promising tech. And the ID.Polo seems to be said to have hub motors.
They might work in the rear if used instead of rear brakes. Rears do far less work anyway and brakes are heavy. Powerful electric motors can do a lot of regen, similarly assisting the front brakes.
Renault 5 RS Turbo has hub motors, Nostradamus.
Imagine on a motorcycle… Probably nonstop wheely 🤣
Except for the fact that that much power would need massive batteries. So your thin small battery would be dead the first time you mashed the peddle to the floor
forgot the part where they were excited to put the batteries on the tire
This is already pretty close to how many EVs are designed.
28 pounds = 12.7kg, for those wondering.
How much is it in baby elephants?
Roughly a tenth of a baby elephant, or around two round trips of your neurons on a single line reaching the moon
My eScooter weighs 42 pounds.
A 28 pound motor that’s 750 kW?
Holy fuck.
That’s power density straight out of science fiction
Ebike would probably fold in half from the torque lol
It only does that at peak for a few seconds, practically, about a third that power.
1000 hp = 0.75 MW. If 98% efficient that’s 15KW of heat dissipation Sounds like a subsystem bigger than the motor.
Anything but metric!
300-400kW continuously should be the headline. Thats impressive. Lots of motors can try and make 1000hp if you feed them enough voltage but only for a split second before they overheat and burn out. I wonder how long it can do this 1000HP.
cant wait for corporations to crush the competition with some bullshit yet again and then complain that we’re at peak EV tech anyway
If we put electrified tracks down we could all drive ridiculously overpowered tiny traincars.
Once I figured out it was an axial flux prototype motor this whole article made sense.
I’m gonna slap one on my fixie.
The size is less of an issue than the power usage.
Does it also use 1000% more power to get that strength?
The only real benefit in that case would be robot mech suits.
This, in a folding, commuter e-bike.
Hopefully the numbers are correct. The article however is shockingly terribly written.
“YASA” sounds like a mashup between YMCA and NASA. Even their logo looks like the Y’s.
I was going to shit all over this thing, but if it can do ~500hp continuously that’s awesome. Wonder what kind of efficiency it has and what the cooling requirements are. That low weight puts us back into unsprung wheel motor territory, especially if it scales down well.
Electric cars are already awesome but they’re just getting started. In a few years an ICE car will look like even more of a pathetic fossil (pun intended) than it does today.
So when are we going to see these in trains?
We StRaPpEd MaGnEtS tO rEcLaIm EnErGy!!!w
holy shit
How much torque though? HP is nice but power is in the torque as much if not more than the voltage(HP)
Ah they’re rating motors like they used to rate speakers?
Anybody know a good place to buy cheap motors at various sizes?
An engine for a third of the price of my weekly shopping trip….thats ace.
/s
The previous version is already in the Temerario. This is more of an evolution of an existing design.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Lol:
I feel like we’d need peak horsepower output of a small dog to truly understand this.
DasFaultier@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
If it’s a Corgi, I would estimate the power output at .1 horsepower max. But if it’s a small dog the size of a large dog, then that’s something entirely different.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 months ago
But dog’s cost money…
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uC0x4T3xq1M
thefactremains@lemmy.world 2 months ago
A dog’s power output comes from its muscle mass, which for a healthy dog is about 45% of its total body weight. This gives our 28-pound dog roughly 5.7 kg of muscle.
Studies of animal muscle show that the peak power output of vertebrate muscle tissue during a short, explosive burst (like a jump or the start of a sprint) is around 100 to 200 watts per kilogram of muscle.
Now we can estimate the dog’s peak power:
Converting these figures to horsepower (1 horsepower = 746 watts):
So, a small 28-pound dog might be able to generate a peak power of around 0.75 to 1.5 horsepower for a very brief moment.
So this YASA motor is somewhere between 670 and 1,340 times more powerful than the dog it’s being compared to in weight. That’s some jaw-dropping power output.
officermike@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I tried to sanity-test the math here running the same calculations on a 700 kg horse, of which around 50% mass is muscle.
700 kg x 50% = 350 kg
Low:
350 kg x 100 W/kg = 35,000 W
35,000 W / 746 ≈ 47 hp
High:
350 kg x 200 W/kg = 70,000 W
70,000 W / 746 ≈ 94 hp
Despite what the term “horsepower” would seem to suggest, a horse can actually output more than one horsepower. Estimates put peak output of a horse around 12-15 hp. By those numbers, even the low end estimate above is around 3-4x too high. We’re gonna need more dogs.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Stop burning the planet down to generate social media comments about shit you don’t understand
postnataldrip@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’m guessing that would be if every muscle was being used for propulsion at any given time. You’d need to allow for heart and lungs, as well as face, neck, tail muscles that don’t contribute to power output, plus legs don’t provide continuous power as they need to make a return trip.
If we really wanted to optimise a dog for power:weight there are quite a few systems we could do away with. But it would likely result in a less floofy doggo, so it’s obviously not an option.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
1 dogpoeer obviously. /s
ceenote@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Americans will use ANYTHING to avoid metric.
ObviouslyNotBanana@piefed.world 2 months ago
Americans will use anything but the metric system
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Small imperial dog, US dogs are different.
floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
You can talk horsepower and dogpower all day, but I won’t really understand until you translate it into bananapower, for scale.
Ulrich@feddit.org 2 months ago
Something something anything but metric…
ShotDonkey@lemmy.world 2 months ago
For all non Brits: 1 dogpower = 1005 horsepower It’s an imperial unit. You’re welcome.