M0oP0o
@M0oP0o@mander.xyz
- Comment on Shoppers Drug Mart Recruiting Volunteers to Staff Stores 7 hours ago:
I remember having the argument 20 years ago about working for free so you can put it on your CV. Not so happy to see it progress past interns and right to general labour.
- Submitted 8 hours ago to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world | 25 comments
- Comment on After 16 years, Ecobee is shutting down support for the original smart thermostat 1 week ago:
You know (I hope) that that functionality does not require a cloud based service right? You are describing features for things I was playing around with 20 years ago, what you need is a program or app, not a live service. The appeal of controlling your things from your phone is not new.
- Comment on After 16 years, Ecobee is shutting down support for the original smart thermostat 1 week ago:
I will never understand the appeal for cloud based home automation.
All the spying aside, 16 years and your thermostat is no longer supported sounds ok until you think about how if you replace everything with cloud based equivalents you are always going to be having to replace things going out of service. I think its funny that you pay more for a device that lasts for lot less (How many thermostats have people seen fail?). I guess the companies are happy?
- Comment on We can do all three things at once 2 weeks ago:
So not only no sources but you are in fact not “done here”?
- Comment on We can do all three things at once 2 weeks ago:
Please provide valid sources to back up your comment. Thanks.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
I wanted to find a list where deployed snipers where used to a positive effect in a crowded area. So far no luck…
I could not find many good current reports on deployment in general. Here is some older info (2004) so the number is likely a wee bit higher now.
www.policemag.com/special-units/…/swat-snipers
some bits of note are:
“The ASA study, which is titled “Police Sniper Utilization Report 2005,” revealed that contrary to the old 70-yard myth, the average range at which police snipers engage suspects is actually 51 yards.”
and is funny when combined with:
“The overwhelming majority of SWAT callouts do not result in shots fired by the SWAT team. ASA estimates that there are 10,000 callouts per year. Nationwide for the 20 years included in the study that adds up to about 200,000 deployments. ASA calculates that out of those 200,000 callouts only 172 incidents have ended with a SWAT sniper killing a suspect.
The survey also shows that police snipers don’t always kill suspects that they fire upon, nor do they always intend to. ASA documents 219 SWAT sniper shootings. Of these, it’s known that 104 struck the suspect in the head or neck, 104 in the body, seven in the arm or hand, and two in a leg. The suspect died of his or her wounds in only 172 of these incidents.
ASA notes that even some of the suspects who were shot in the head and neck survived their wounds. However, none of these suspects were shot in the brain or spinal cord. Instead, they were hit in the jaw or mouth.”
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Yeah, that is why it fits here. The response from Americans is depressing.
I think it is a search index issue, I can find a few things on this. The arrests are also a thing.
There is also the wayback machine to watch in real time the changing of story by the school:
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
They use various soft point rounds (you can’t really use hollow points on high velocity rifles). The rounds are basically hollow points with a plastic ballistic tip.
I would not want to be behind someone shot with a .308 fragmenting round or not.
Here is a video showing the sort of penetration at 100 yards (what distance police snipers shoot from)
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Who?
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Well yes, I knew that snipers are routinely deployed at large crowds. That is why this is posted here.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
All the US needs to do is embrace Peelian principles, but instead it’s a corrupt, power groping free for all.
We both know even if taking a more community driven approach like what Peel did in London would take a herculean effort and the public at this point would not likely buy in. Maybe in 50 years.
They were saying the police were the biggest threat, yet we have repeated terrorist events from regular Americans (not cops as well?)
The argument is not that there are not non police risks, its that they pale in comparison (at a degree that the non police risk is so low to almost be a rounding error) to police risks. Also the police have shown over and over in the US they are not willing to protect the public.
There exists real threats that we need to address if we’re ever to pull back our gross reliance on police being some kind of savior figure or whatever bullshit other people believe they are.
See that is something we can agree on.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Or I am taking my time responding as I just woke up.
But don’t let me stop your victory lap. Clearly you are not at all projecting.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
The point is the risk of heavy police presence at a protest is not worth the “protection” they do or don’t offer.
Ban protests if you really want to as a nation but stop this “you totally can protest, it is your right! Oh watch out for the tear gas” crap.
I don’t know how many more times I can say that I believe the ACAB movement before it finally sets in for you. The police are not the only fucking problem we face. And to say otherwise is dangerous and misleading.
OK, I will spell it out.
THE HEAVY POLICE PRESENCE AT PROTESTS ARE THE PROBLEM.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
How do we prevent this from happening (this is the question I’m asking repeatedly and the question that only one person responded to directly, and who’s solution was to “create a just society” which I don’t need to tell you is incredibly vague and utopian.) Again. My question is how do we prevent this from happening
This is the part that I have issues with buying your arguing in good faith. This has been covered by myself and others, even in the reply above and in all caps. But once again, the best way to stop mass casualty events are before the event happens. As in you have to address/assess risk before the event. And also as pointed out the trade off of “preventing” any and all bad things from happening in a society is not worth it unless you like living under big brother.
This is a threatening action, agreed. This does not remove our liberty to peacefully protest, but it creates an unjustly hostile/threatening environment. That I agree with (see point 1)
They have arrested over 40 people so far, this does indeed remove the liberty to peacefully protest. If you have america brain so bad that you don’t think government agents pointing loaded firearms at you does not impede your liberty then maybe detaining people for exercising their rights will.
Stop assuming I’m being an assholr on purpose when I’ve very obviously for ACAB, understand the police state problem, and am trying to have civil conversation despite being accused of being some Tucker Carlson crayon muncher. That’s bad faith. Assuming the worst of me, is bad faith.
I think you have me confused with another person who accused you of asking loaded questions. I made no assumptions until you repeatedly ignored many answers to your question leading me to now believe you are fishing for a talking point.
Your attempts to gaslight me into some kind of troll, when all I’m trying to do (as a “good liberal”) is to get to the fucking bottom of things and have a civil conversation about police reform, is dangerous.
Once again, I am astonished by your ability to just ignore the responses to your question. You asked what can be done, you got more then one answer (mostly that a police response of this size and style was unwanted and dangerous) but proceeded instead to repeatedly proclaim that “No one is answering my question”. This caused people (quite rationally) to question your motives in this.
And any of one these responses could be from one or multiple troll conservative groups.
Yes, clearly these conservative groups who are well known for using the same fear mongering “Won’t someone think of the children” argument for more police powers that you are using would be just jumping at the chance to prove you wrong.
And this now has me wondering about trolls and arguments, I noticed something typing this out.
(as a “good liberal”)
Where have I seen this sort of language before?
The tolerant don’t need to tolerate trolls, assholes, and other forms of intolerance. That’s why I was fine with not repeating myself. Not for lack of effort or care, but because this is lemmy.
Yes, good thing I am not that tolerant so we can continue.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Your take is just fear mongering and pushing the narrative that the police in the US are being militarized to protect people. You are talking about a 14 year period where 18 people died from 2 successful attacks, and hundreds injured. A stat line that is eclipsed by the number of people killed and injured by police every year. In case you are wondering that would be >600 killed and 250,000 injured per year.
…uic.edu/u-s-data-on-police-shootings-and-violenc…
The idea that this cure is better then the illness is just not born out in data.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Looks like they just grabbed them. I was reading it might be the biggest mass protester arrest since the Vietnam era, but I am waiting for the final picture.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Funny you should compare the round I am assuming they are using (just went with the current most common police rifle) to a 308 but not a 300 win mag. They use both the 308 and the 7.62x51 NATO from what I can look up.
The 7.62x51 nato has more punch then a 308 and a bit less vilocity then a 300 win mag. Now if you where to compare it to a 30-06 or a 7.62x54R then yeah sure. The point is the police are not using anything more fancy then hollowpoint according to what little I can find oklahoma.gov/content/dam/ok/en/…/040106aa.pdf and I don’t know any even slightly competent shooter (hunters more so) that would take the risk of that hollowpoint stopping at the first target with a 308 or hell even a .223.
I think we are getting lost in the weeds but my point is you don’t set up sniper teams to protect people, you set them up to take people out or intimidate.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
If nothing happens, you’ll learn you were wrong, and hopefully you’ll learn from it.
How does this make me wrong? All I see is 40ish arrests so far and unless they save the day with some sniper shot my point still stands. I am not sure how you think if the police don’t kill people somehow that is an own. This is not a rational response to a protest unless you are in a place with very poor civil unrest or one that is not very free.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
As someone who has shot this round, no I don’t think I am overestimating the penetration. Also as it turns out police (I think state troopers in this case) operate at ranges of 100 yards or less according to the police https://www.police1.com/swat/articles/a-first-of-its-kind-effort-describes-police-sniper-use-of-force-engagements-in-us-j7JjrYjYZmPtsoMt/. I know of no way to magic a bullet fired into a crowd to not over penetrate and yes I checked if there was some sort of less lethal or low pen police round (I found none).
Know your target and what is beyond it. This is basic firearm safety, but that seems to not be common in the US of A.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
I think they felt safe and being seen was the point.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Never had a twat account, sorry. I am more coming at this from a gun nuts thinking, Oh and the complete absence of any evidence of sniper teams being used to save a crowd. But maybe I just am not looking hard enough.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
From protesting or attacking protesters? Its getting hard to tell.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
In all these cases the teams would have to reaim outside of the crowd, and also unless they have been given permission to shoot at their discretion (oh please no) they need to call it in. Not really a great solution where the benefits outweigh the risks.
And since no snipers saved the day in Moscow it does not really work as an example of snipers being used to defend a crowd. I also doubt with what we now know about the internal workings of the Russian federation I kinda doubt their snipers would have been fully capable.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
The issue is I can not even with my vivid imagination can think of a scenario where shooting into a crowd (where these teams have their rifles pointed) would have benefits that outweigh the risks.
The use for sniper teams on roof tops is in VIP protection (as in fuck all the little guys as long as the important one is safe) and offensive actions.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Oh, no worries. I was confused but I don’t think I made my point clear. It was just adding on the ridiculous notion that a large amount of people means snipers for some reason, these people from what I can see would be on campus anyway and the only difference I can see from say 3 months ago would be the political protests.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
OK, so lets think this out. These are pointed at the crowd correct so lets assume the threat is from the crowd.
You have some Ne’er-do-well in the crowd who is planing some type of trouble, you notice this person looking “dastardly” from your sniper nest. You radio in and get the go ahead to take the shot with your trusty Remington M700. You shoot centre mass as you have been trained to do and the villain drops like a puppet with its strings cut.
You saved the day right? Oh no that is just the start, since the round fired was a 7.62x51mm NATO (there is no “rubber” round for this firearm) it went straight through the torso of that protester with a box knife and into and then back out of at least a few other people in the dense crowd (must be their fault for not wearing better body armour). The gunshot is still noticed even with the police issued silencer and at seeing the carnage the crowd does what crowds do, they stampede.
After the chaos settles down the body count will be a lot higher then that one person with a box cutter could ever manage (not that you can even say they where going to do anything).
These are not there to protect people, that is not their role, this is not an action movie.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Maybe pantyhose? Are we sure these are the police? It is getting very hard to tell.
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
Umm, I think you have my point backwards… unless you are implying the protesters are sinners?
- Comment on Possible snipers seen at OSU. Administration says they're not snipers but should be treated like they are. 2 weeks ago:
That was answered, like several times. I don’t care about the intent (from ether party), but the wilfully ignoring any answer that does not fit the weird fear mongering position that this guy is here to protect anyone:
