Why do so many boomers and even some gen x believe so peristently that if you dressup and show up in person anywhere you will get whatever you went there for?

Comments

• HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Good clothes used to be expensive and a signifier of wealth. Someone who could wear a suit likely had money and someone who had a fashionable suit likely had more money. Over the past generation, as clothing became cheaper and large parts of the richer segments have up on dressing well, the value of wearing a suit dropped.

  Wearing a suit is still valuable in some circumstances, but nowhere near as much as before.

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• Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Because that’s how it worked for pretty much everything back in the day when your chances of getting a loan from the bank depended on the impression of trustworthiness you projected on the bank manager when you asked for it, rather than some obscure algorithm running in the bank’s systems that didn’t take in account any feedback from an actual human.

  Amongst large companies automation removed humans from the loop, at least at an early stage, so now your machine processable input and/or information about you extracted from some other sources about what you’ve done so far, matching whatever the algorithm is configured to favor is all that matters. Sure, beyond that you’ll almost certainly end up with a person making a final decision (for hiring, not for bank loans), but you first have to pass that big initial automated hurdle that’s supposed to separate the wheat from the chaff.

  Amongst other things this has killed “being judged as having potential” as a way to get a foot on the door, unless you have a high score on a metric supposedly correlated to it such as good grades at a supposedly elite university, since unlike “impression” such metrics can be mathematically evaluated and compared by algorithms.

  Mind you, when looking for work in smaller companies that haven’t outsourced their hiring, impressions still work since your first point of contact is going to be a person whose opinion counts rather than an algorithm or a person too low on the pecking scale for their judgement to be taken in account.

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• Alenalda@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You can get into a lotta places wearing a hard hat and reflective vest while carrying a ladder.

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  • Raiderkev@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The louvre for example

    youtu.be/SASDkIQjouI

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  • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Or a clip board with some technical papers on it, in case you don’t want to lug a ladder.

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• AeonFelis@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That place you were going to will owe to give you the thing you want as a reward for your effort. This is exactly how the world works.

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• Dead_or_Alive@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It depends upon the setting and what you want. Showing up to a McDonalds shift in a suite and tie trying to get the CEO job. Not so much.

  Showing up to your first office job and meeting with your bosses in a nice polo or button down shirt and slacks looking professional, yes. It signals you are eager and want to succeed. Which will go a long way.

  Of course you still have to put the work in. But your boss will be more likely to give you more training/work/promotions if they know you want to learn and work over someone who doesn’t give a shit.

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  • BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Never mind. I read some of their replies. You are correct.

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  • BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    No, they aren’t talking about for an interview. They are talking about going in someplace in a suit and asking for a job. My mother insisted I did this when I got out of college. It only took a few receptionists looking at me like I’m crazy to be reaffirmed that this was a dumb idea. Even places that did have openings told me to apply online.

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• CarrmynCarnage@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s some white people shit. Sorry, but it’s true.

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  • shawn1122@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You’re getting down votes but I remember very specifically a trope on Reddit more than 15 years ago was that as a dude you could dress up in a suit and show up with a clipboard and infiltrate any professional environment. I think it’s a throw back to the movie Catch me if you can. I never saw it myself but it certainly captured some imaginations.

    Anyways, I remember thinking maybe if you’re a middle class or better off white dude this could work and some people went as far as to actually share that sentiment and they were received as positively as you are right now.

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• CovfefeKills@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s about respect, it goes a long way. If you didn’t come across as an entitled little cunt, and oh you very much do, you could garner some respect. But you are and so you don’t and as such you will probably be lost at honor.

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• Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You need to know someone who works there I find. That way they actually read your CV.

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• SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Because life was literally that easy for them.

  If they had a pulse and showered they got the job

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  • Cassanderer@thelemmy.club ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The world has changed for sure. They still have their positions but how they got them no longer works. The pay no lomger buys either.

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  • Aeao@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    *If you were white

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    • shawn1122@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This is truth. Immigrant and minority boomers/Gen X didn’t have it this easy. They were dodging racists like landmines and racist hiring practices were way less frowned upon back then.

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    • winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Black people had jobs they just weren’t paid

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• agent_nycto@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Ok, I agree with you, I do, buuuuut

  If someone shows up to an interview wearing pajamas, they are probably less likely to get a job. So you do have to dress up a little bit, depending on what the job is.

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  • sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Not even just job stuff, its as impractical as pushing you to apply for something government related and that your dressing up and showing up in person will somehow override literal requirements you know you dont meet

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    • python@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Movie recommendation - Catch me if you can (2002)! Apparently Jobs used to work like that so much that in the late 1960’s a 16 year old just conned his way into becoming a pilot, a doctor and a lawyer with no previous qualifications.

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    • Etterra@discuss.online ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Gen-X here. The reason they’re giving you that advice is because that used to actually work. If you wanted a job, for instance, you needed to comb through newspapers or physically go around and look for places that were hiring. It wasn’t uncommon for ads to to say “apply in person.” Without the Internet making applying for a job almost trivially easy compared to how it used to be, going through the extra effort of showing up dressed professionally was a way to show that you were serious and willing to put in real effort.

      The Boomers and Gen-Xers telling you to do the same aren’t living in the same decade as the rest of us, mostly because the Internet wasn’t pervasive in the time they were looking for jobs. Back in the 90s the Internet was kinda a novelty that you had to go looking for. It wasn’t, IMO, until smart phones came along that being online REALLY took off, though arguably iMac computers really pushed the “tech is trendy” idea out there.

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• gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  fun fact, in the medieval times it was custom that you could not sentence a person in front of court without their consent. yes, the consent of the person about to be judged. how times have changed.

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• Spacehooks@reddthat.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  There was a scene in mythic quest like this.

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• IdontplaytheTrombone@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s what they did the last time they searched for a job. It used to work.

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  • innermachine@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It still kind of works in some industries. I got my last 3 jobs, and 2 of them “weren’t hiring”, by walking into the joint and asking to talk to the boss and saying I can start in 2 weeks I juat have to give my current biss notice. In demanding industries, showing up in person makes an impression, another app on a stack of applications gets you nowhere. Lots of people apply, few can talk the talk and walk the walk or actually do the work. I the auto industry you show up and impress the foreman or manager with your knowledge and your pretty much in. I know people that work in welding and a construction that this also works for. I also have siblings that are white collar that this absolutely does nothing for. Supposeit also depends on how much of a giant corp you work for, as I never work for monolithic corporations. If I can’t meet my boss I can’t work there.

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  • Clathrate_Gun@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This.
    It’s old advice that used to work, and it worked very well.

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• MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Must be localized, doesn’t happen here. Where?

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  • sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Maybe more of a north american thing

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• Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Not so much the dress up. But yeah. You need to show up. Also, it doesn’t help to be a bitch about people trying to give solicited advice by sharing their experiences.

  If you want to make $350K working 10 hours a week in your underwear, go find out how all those other wildly successful folks in your generation are doing it.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What is this strawman? Weird.

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• Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  with job sites being the primary source of job hunting, you wont even get a chance in most cases to even an interview.

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• Corporal_Punishment@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The only time showing up in person works in the UK is if you’re a teenager looking for part time or apprenticeship work in independent shops/hospitality/mechanics etc.

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• BCsven@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It does work sometimes because people can ignore an email or phone call, but its harder to ignore a person standing in front of you.

  As an example we were contacting a business abut something we offered that we knew they needed.

  Emails and phonecalls always got the reply of: I have left a note for the owner and when he has time he will contact you.

  After months of that, and us happening to be in their area, we just dropped in unnounanced and asked for the owner.

  He engaged with us , asked lots of questions, asked for samples and info. As we were doing that the secretary realized who we were and said something like " oh I’ve been meaning to have you read their emails and setup a meeting" lol

  Too late lady.

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• TrojanRoomCoffeePot@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Lived experience and/or delusion. Many can’t seem to absorb that the labour market didn’t stop changing in 19-fucking-73, and it shows.

  I couldn’t believe how dogshit so much of their advice was the last time I was searching for new work, and how irate they were that I wouldn’t take it - because it was useless and/or hazardous to my financial stability in the situation at hand. That coffee drinks-avocado toast shit seemed like satire at first, but some of them actually believe it, and had I been spineless/stupid enough to allow them to push me into the courses of action they were insisting on I think that it might have killed me.

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  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    and had I been spineless/stupid enough to allow them to push me into the courses of action they were insisting on I think that it might have killed me.

    yep, my experience exactly

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    • TrojanRoomCoffeePot@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Glad to hear that you made it out the other side as well, I’m worried about contemporaries stuck eating shit, or worse living back at home with Boomer parents eating shit.

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  • Septimaeus@infosec.pub ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    “Naughty corporations” made me chuckle, but “I don’t know what the solution is” definitely rang true.

    Most boomers actually don’t know where to begin, even though many of the solutions would be a 6-year-old’s first guess, and are actually proven to work, simply because they grew up being told that every single one of those obvious, proven solutions were “socialist” and that socialism was anti-American.

    That indoctrination was so thorough that these solutions can be put right in front of them, gift-wrapped, with a neon arrow pointing at an easy button labeled “fix that shit,” and they’ll still shrug and say “we’re all out of ideas, maybe ask a billionaire what to do, surely they know how to fix the system.”

    And the sad part is that they do and, in fact, already did.

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    • CarrmynCarnage@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Children, when given appropriate tools and knowledge can function well together, that is until the parents get involved. The kid cities in Mexico (more of a theme park parents weren’t allowed to interfere in) proved this. Kids can get shit right because they’re not clouded by the dirt and crap by everyone around them yet.

      By the way those aforementioned kid cities, they always seemed to fall into chaos when parents were allowed to to put their direct involvement in them. Which always ended up happening.

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• Archangel1313@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This works for small businesses. Sending them an email will just wind up in spam. But show up in person, and you might get to talk to an actual person. This distinguishes you from some random, semi-anonymous piece of paper or text header.

  If you’re applying at some gigantic mega-corporation, then none of that matters. They won’t have time to see you anyway, and will only look at your application if they specifically asked you to give them one.

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  • Ephera@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This distinguishes you from some random, semi-anonymous piece of paper or text header.

    It also just gives them a lot more information about who you are as a person. A list of skills or lived experience can be misleading in all kinds of ways. And they only allow inferring personality traits indirectly, like someone with good grades is less likely to be a slacker, but ultimately you don’t know.

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  • user224@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Probably, yeah.
    It’s how I found internship a year ago. It was really just vague “something related to computers”, so I ended up in a small PC repair and sale shop. I just asked the owner, and that was that. Although, since that was for free…

    On the other hand, the large company where someone else went in the past… they just told me “write an email to this person”.

    But also, that was kinda rare. He usually wasn’t there, especially soon before I left, as he apparently ended up receiving some threats and a few mad people showed up after he helped organize some protests.

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  • Otherbarry@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah I was going to say the same. Currently work at a small business run by a boomer so if the random person walking in looking for a job happens to catch him there’s a 50/50 chance that person will get hired. Bonus if the person looking for work has a degree from a ivy league university, boomers love that shit. I don’t know why someone with that sort of degree would be applying for a low wage small business job but the job market is a bit crazy nowadays.

    The practice can backfire of course - I’ve seen the same boomer boss hire other boomers that barely know how to use a computer and then proceed to fail at his/her job spectacularly. It’s interesting when you run into boomers looking for work and it turns out they spent most of their career relying on others to deal with the mundane tasks of dealing with email, spreadsheets, etc. So many of them spent their careers falling upwards into management roles until they were laid off/fired/whatever.

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• Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  My dad was a big believer of this when I was younger. Finally I humored him and had him drive me around town as I went into every buisness ask for a paper application. I printed and stapled 30 resumes for the trip, got dressed up, on the way into town he was so smug about how I was finally “really trying to get hired”. Four hours later, we’d been to nearly 50 businesses, I’d gotten two paper applications and only 16 of my resumes were accepted. Everyone else said to apply online or “we only hire through the temp agencies”. My dad for his part took it way harder than me. I think he actually realized that’s not how it works anymore because he never suggested it again and took me seriously when I said I’d been putting in applications online.

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Kinda wholesome

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  • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    temp agencies

    what i’ve been wondering recently is whether unions aren’t just big temp agencies. instead of hiring people directly, the company forms a contract with the union and people work for the company as long as the union finds the working conditions (including pay) acceptable. if the working conditions drop, the union withdraws all workers at once, instead of the workers having to choose whether they continue to work at the company or strike individually.

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    • Postmortal_Pop@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’d say they’re the good and evil versions of each other. They do the exact same thing, but the union has the worker’s interest in mind and the temp agencies have the company’s interest in mind.

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    also he might not realizing before AI, they were using Software to screen out peoples resume, or keep peoples resume just for the sake of weeding out people. and many listings purposely have no plans of hiring at all.

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  • marighost@piefed.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Congrats on getting your dad to change his mind, even if begrudgingly.

    There are so many people in his generation that simply do not understand what this job market is like, what navigating Indeed or LinkedIn is like, or how people apply for those jobs anymore. Very little human interaction happens applying for jobs these days.

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    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      using subterfuge

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  • sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The part that gets me is they surely cant have had any recent success with it. Like, the first time they ever get to following their own advice in the modern day, they inevitably realize its bullshit. They voted and used their positions or authority in society to literally make it so that wasnt a thing that would ever be possible after them, shareholders dont care for opportunity

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    • Cassanderer@thelemmy.club ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      For sure. Tbf though, things have gone to hell even more in our generation. Is it their, and now our, faults for not stopping a business plot hatched in 1972 at the biz roundtable to subjugate and impoverish workers and remove protections?

      To some degree, we need to do more for sure. But divided we will not, we need organization to combat the organized biz plot(s,) and blaming the boomers by the same logic would as of yet utterly condemn our own generations.

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    • Jimmycrackcrack@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They probably did have recent success with a variation on the theme. While they’re likely old enough and established enough now that they’re not having to walk around to retail businesses off the street and attempt to get a job like they did when they started out, this approach likely helped in more recent times in their career in the context of promotions or switching to a new job in their same field or at a similar level in a new field. They might have succeeded in getting that new job or promotion in large part due to their social connections and direct interface with the right people just like they’re advising you to do, except in their case it’s now at the higher level, which is probably one of the few places left where showing up at the right time, having the right manner and air about you and dressing nicely actually still makes the difference. The tactics wouldn’t work on their own, they still needed their credentials and connections and experience to get that far in the first place, but it probably helped cinch the position. Now they’re trying to give practical advice to someone just starting out and for them those tactics genuinely are still helping even if they’re not the sole factor in their success and when they cast their minds back to when they started out it helped a lot then too. With this experience in mind, in their shoes, it worked way back when, and it still works now at the higher level and the youngster you’re earnestly trying to help doesn’t have much else going for them since they’re starting out so of course they should at least do this and if everyone else is applying online then this alone will make them a memorable candidate for putting in the extra effort and place them ahead of 90% of the pack.

      In reality, it doesn’t really work that way, the processes are centralised, the people physically in the office or location don’t really handle this themselves so they don’t care what you were like to talk to or how you dressed because it’s not their decision and the way the jobs market is, the employers have the leverage and there’s way more people looking for the jobs than there are jobs so it’s not going to be practical to have them all turning up in a suit because they want to be remembered and they prefer to streamline the process rather than deal with people directly.

      I totally see why it would seem like sensible advice to someone who started working when these simple steps were a marker of basic competency and motivation and for whom it now continues to matter to this day. They’re just insulated from the way the situation has shifted.

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    • TrojanRoomCoffeePot@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Have you heard the expression ‘pulling the ladder up after themselves’ in relation to Booomers, and the housing/labour market?

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• Melobol@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s highly depends on a situation. But generally speaking it does work in a lot of situations.

  You want work? Clean up, print a dozen resumes - apply online (if they have a website), then go and show up in the physical location. You will be noticed waaay more than a silent application.

  You want to solve a service issue: even with big probiders atnt, T-Mobile there is a chance that a corporate store manager can do something.

  Sometimes even between offices it can help if you show up in addition to the regular channels.
  Being proactive, clean and respectful can take you long way.

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  • Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    With fake job posts and AI resumé scanning, showing up can't hurt.

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    • Melobol@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Obviously not every job is open to people who show up, but if you just want any job - any small (mon and pop) store will be impressed.
      Honestly I saw some job applications that peope would not believe…

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  • protist@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Fundamentally, it’s hard to overstate how much assertiveness skills can help you meet your needs. Just because it doesn’t always work doesn’t mean it never works. (When I say assertiveness, I mean confidently and respectfully seeking what you want)

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    • Melobol@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The respect is the key word. Nowadays most people don’t give a shit. So when you do, you stand out. And if you treat someone with courtesy they will be much more favorably towards you.

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  • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’ll agree that there are instances where it works, but the tricky part is knowing who those were. I love your second example because I worked at one of those stores and the manager could definitely get things done if you were polite and got the employees to advocate for you.

    But, we wouldn’t be much use in the first example because all applications were online, and the GM didn’t interview anyone until HR told them to.

    They have since closed that store, so there are only authorized agents in my town, and there’s not a damn thing they can do for your billing issues.

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    • Melobol@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I believe that asking respectfully won’t hurt. And if you are lucky you can get ahead of people who do not show up.

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• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’ve never encountered anyone of any age that thinks that. Presentation of yourself is important, but nobody has ever even implied that just looking nice is enough.

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  • OctopusNemeses@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Most of the “boomer” discussion is veiled ageism and ignorance. The younger generations are setting themselves up to be “boomers” themselves. Inevitably they will be old themselves. They’re already willfully ignorant. They take joy in it even. Not a good track there.

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  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    There is also such a thing as trying too hard. I once saw a guy show up in a blue button shirt with white collar and tie, to apply for a cook job. He got the job, and was good. But that outfit was a fucking costume and all it communicated was “I am into putting on a false front.”

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  • gon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Suits aren’t stupid! There’s casual suits, for one, and really there’s suits for basically every occasion… There’s so many different fits, different materials, different cuts…

    That’s just such a violent generalization, I simply can’t stand by and say nothing.

    Maybe the idea you have of a “suit”, in your mind, sucks balls, but suits certainly don’t suck balls.

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    • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I look positively bad ass in a sport coat, and I’m every bit as comfortable as in any other clothing.

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    • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      what even is a proper suit supposed to represent?

      like, i’ve grown up hating them as much as i hated everything else that was pushed onto me and i didn’t understand.

      i’ve never seen a single suit that looks good or made sense to me. what is the purpose in it?

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    • Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The only suits that aren’t stupid are fursuits. 😤

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  • Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Every generation just gets more casual and I love it!

    Pretty soon I won’t even need to put on pants to run to the store!

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    • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You put on pants for the store?

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    • Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I would love to live like an actual cartoon dog and only wear tshirts to express myself.

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• homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  What

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  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think they mean in the context of getting a job. At least that’s what most of the reactions seem to assume. The post really doesn’t have enough detail.

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• Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They believe that because that’s how it used to work (and still does in some industries). That’s their lived experience.

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• LodeMike@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  That’s what happened to them. If they were white.

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