cross-posted from: lemmy.ca/post/59469059
Why does Apple feel they deserve a 30% cut? In cases like this, Apple aren’t providing any value at all.
Apple to Soon Take Up to 30% Cut From All Patreon Creators in iOS App
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Sine_Fine_Belli@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.macrumors.com/2026/01/28/patreon-apple-tax/
Comments
dan@upvote.au 2 weeks ago
Flagstaff@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
It’s just platform-milking, just like Meetup.com’s latest antics; there isn’t deep analysis needed to everything, haha. “Capitalism” is totally a legitimate answer despite being just one word.
Munkisquisher@lemmy.nz 2 weeks ago
Meetup is now owned by Bending Spoons, who have also enshittified wetransfer, Evernote, eventbrite, AOL, vimeo. They buy decent products that never exploded to ipo status, fire everyone and milk the rest for whatever they can charge.
JamieDub86@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
You got a link to what meetup has been up to?
Kirp123@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They were sued by Epic Games for the same shit and Epic won on one count which allows them to put links to alternative payment methods and go around Apple.
kurmudgeon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So couldn’t patreon just argue in court that this precedent was already set with epic?
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
They provide the payment system. They also mandate it.
If you subscribe on the website you don’t have to pay the extra. It’s only for subscriptions initiated via the app
tabular@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
An app you can only get via the Apple store, mandated by Apple?
hayvan@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
Deserving is irrelevant under Capitalism. It’s only whether they can get away with it or not?
willington@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
And fixing this problem is going to require a similar attitude from the people tired of this.
sparky@lemmy.federate.cc 2 weeks ago
We have a winner
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Because apple is a “premium” product, so you have to pay a “premium” fee for normal stuff so it feels like you’re using “premium” services
dan@upvote.au 2 weeks ago
But you’re getting literally the same Patreon content.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
gotta get the money to bribe trump somehow
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Just pass on the cost of the corruption to the consumer, as usual. It’s the Corruption Tax.
vogi@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
This sums the problem up fairly nicely I think. I do wonder with Apple being a gatekeeper by EUs own definition and unfair sales terms supposed to be history with the Digital Markets Act in place this can’t go through, right?!?! at least not in the EU… assuming they do their job.
scarabic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is THE way that Apple gets any revenue from the enormous and highly successful app platform and ecosystem they created. They say “go nuts, make money on our platform, but share some with us in exchange for our maintaining that platform.” This is reasonable. Apple is providing a service to Patreon, and access to their use base. That ain’t nothing.
I agree that subjecting creator donations to the 30% is about the shittiest use case for this and I wish they would make an exception. But your post about how Apple is doing absolutely nothing here is garbage.
ieGod@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It’s one way but not the only way. They make money from developers before they even write a single line of code, every year.
dan@upvote.au 2 weeks ago
Apple is doing nothing in this particular case, not in general. There’s cases where the 30% is more justified.
XLE@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Apple also gets money from developers who use their platform already. That should be it.
Apple will already bully small developers off their platform while giving bigger companies first-class treatment.
Taldan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Lack of competition. No other app store is allowed to operate on Apple devices. They have a monopoly, which is the only reason they can charge as much as they do
Sure, Apple are providing a payments platform, but why do they deserve 10x what Stripe charges?
I don’t believe that 30% cut includes payment processing. That’s an additional fee
Sad to think about how little creators actually get at the end of the day. Example of a $100 donation/subscription:
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Apple takes 30%
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Card companies take ~4%
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Patreon takes 10%
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Taxes take another big chunk
After all that a the creator would have, what, $40?
dan@upvote.au 2 weeks ago
No other app store is allowed to operate on Apple devices
That’s only true outside of Europe. In the EU, they were forced to allow third-party app stores.
- Card companies take ~4%
- Patreon takes 10%
Does Patreon’s cut not include payment processing?
The other thing that’s ridiculous in the USA is how much credit card processing costs. Stripe is around 3%, while in countries it can be half of that (in Australia, it’s commonly around 1% for debit cards and 1.5% for credit cards).
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artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
It’s not about what they deserve, it’s about what they want.
Gargantuan@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I suspect this has more to do with closing a loophole than going after Patreon and only Patreon.
People don’t have to subscribe through the app. and Patreon don’t have to offer that functionality in the App. Apple don’t have Patreon locked in to their platform.
lofuw@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Why does Apple feel they deserve a 30% cut?
Because they can. Time and time again, useful idiots have proven their dipshittery by sucking off the people taking them for a ride.
A main tenant of business decisions is to fuck over your customers as hard as they’re willing to be fucked. Since nobody has any standards these days, corporations make a killing.
FireWire400@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I hope Patreon will just switch off the ability to pay through the iOS app, along with a nice fuck you-message to Apple
lost_faith@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Last time this came up Patreon simply allowed the creators to charge the commission directly on top of the price for non apple users, or eat the 30% loss. So everyone not using iOS would pay, say, $5/month, iOS users would pay $5+30%. Hope they retain that option.
ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Ya a few apps already do this. YouTube premium does for sure and I have heard a few others doing so.
applebusch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Your math is wrong. If you want the creator to still get $5 with apple stealing 30% you would need to pay ~43% extra.
$5/0.7 = $7.14
1/0.7 = 1.42857
artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
It’s against App Store rules to inform your customers they’re being fucked by Apple in any way. If you do, they’ll take it down.
eager_eagle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Isn’t it against the law in many places to charge customers without providing a breakdown of what they’re being charged with?
lofuw@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
That would be nice, but when Apple says “jump,” all the other businesses ask “how high?”
The world is full of morons with more money than sense.
scarabic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It reminds me of gas stations that only accept ATM cards and not credit cards, because they don’t want to lose the 3% that credit card companies take per transaction. They’re trying not to lose that 3%, but it will inconvenience some customers and lose them some business. That could easily be worse than 3%.
So yes Patreon could say “go find a laptop and enter your credit card number in our web page” but there are people who won’t do all that because they expect to be able to pay with one tap. And businesses are on the AppStore because that great payment experience makes it super easy for them to convert customers.
It’s just not as straightforward as saying “fuck you Apple, I’ll take my business elsewhere.”
lando55@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I was actually curious how this currently works as I’ve never used the Patreon app, so thanks for that. I’m sure it’s a nice convenience to be able to transact through the app, but not 30% passive Apple income levels of nice. It’s too bad they are stuck in their flat-rate commission model, because alienating third-party developers and businesses in this manner will kill their ecosystem.
Can any current creators on Patreon provide some insight into how the revenue streams break down between the iOS/Android app platforms versus the website? What impact do you foresee if instead of a payment option in the app it simply directs you to the website?
vogi@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
`That’s how the system works. You don’t expect Walmart to not get a commission when you sell something at their store.
30% is reasonable. DEAL WITH IT.
Don’t like it? Make your own phone and platform.`
Opening up the comments on macrumors never disappoints me :)
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
its also not how it works… at all. walmart would buy wholesale from a supplier not directly from the seller
MountingSuspicion@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Apple is being terrible here, but Walmart now has an amazon-like storefront where third parties can list their own products basically entirely apart from Walmart but using their site. Not sure what the percent cut Walmart takes is, but Walmart might never actually buy from a company selling on their site.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Apple is reselling services, just like Walmart wholesales products, clearly
lofuw@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
See? Apple users are dumb as a sack of diapers and deserve to be taken advantage of accordingly.
willington@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The bigger the asset, the more sacrosanct are that asset’s interests.
That is a system of nearly unlimited milking of anyone who is not themselves represented through a multi-hundred billion dollar asset.
Fighting this in the business or legal arena is a complete waste of time. Those battlefields are favorable to the biggest assets.
Dewege@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
To follow this logic: if you use an e-banking app, Apple will soon claim to be entitled to 30% of all transactions. Same for paypal, ebay, you name it
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Apple charges 30% when you sell digital goods within an app. That’s not the same as moving money in your bank account or buying something on eBay.
It’s still robbery, but it’s not the same.
BoJackHorseman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So 30% tax on buying digital goods on ebay?
Rooster326@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Well call it tithe for your digital overlord.
Bob_Robertson_IX@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
God only asks for 10%… shows you what Apple thinks of themselves.
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30? Is it simply that they’re hosting an app on their store, so therefore they’re entitled to a cut?
So if I write a novel, and get it published, Microsoft can say "We deserve 30% because you used our product to produce your product?
I’m so fucking tired of corporations. It’s well past guillotine-o-clock.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30?
Because Valve can and Tim wants his yachts
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Which device only allows you to run software downloaded from Steam?
username123@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Why are you booing them, they’re right.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Steam at least adda value for devs. What the fuck does apple do for Patreon creators?
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s a little different though. Valve is providing the actual platform, and running it. Apple doesn’t own Patreon, they simply host a client.
UltraBlack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’re bringing the apple tax to the table
Croquette@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s a holdover from retail where had to physically hold your product and had limited space.
Now, the shareholders demand even more money and Apple has complete control on the OS and they are signaling that you can’t do shit and they will take whatever they want.
They can fight anyone in courts, and as long as the laws have no teeth, they will get away with it.
lofuw@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
What exactly does Apple think that they’re brining to the equation in order to deserve that 30?
Apple users are some of the dumbest people on the planet. Most of them will gleefully support paying more to make the company richer.
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
Why isn’t Apple trying to take 30% of all purchases through the Amazon app? Or eBay? Or your local grocery delivery? It’s the same exact thing. Such a stupid greedy fucking attempt
madcaesar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I fucking hate mega corps. It’s never fucking enough… Ever… Apple has more money than some countries yet these assholes want ever more…
Tax all these assholes into oblivion!
xenomor@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Tim Cook needs more money to forge golden offerings for his good pal Donald trump.
LifeLikeLady@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If I was on Patreon I’d tell them to pull the app. Fuck em they have a website.
ZoteTheMighty@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It’s wild that Steam is getting a class action lawsuit for charging 30% right now, and Apple doing shit like this at the same percentage and legally is getting a free pass.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Just crank all iOS user payments up by 30%, explain why, and let nature sort itself out.
myfunnyaccountname@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Think. Of. The. Shareholders.
network_switch@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Terribly need degoogled android to become popular and/or a normal Linux distribution phone to become popular so that normal Linux market share couldn’t be ignored
lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I had no idea Apple was so desperate for money
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Fuck patron. Fuck you Tim Apple. Fuck you both
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
So, all business is becoming a protection racket?
JChildermass@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I didn’t even know there was a Patreon app. I signed up through the website. On a computer. Old school.
SCmSTR@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Gotta recoup all those fascist donations
Bunbury@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Luckily I’m about to switch to graphene OS soon. I’ll be forced to make a bunch of changes to choices I made out of convenience in the past
theacharnian@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Technofeudalism.
TheFonz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Timmy Cook is just a bean counter. He’s got nothing to innovate or build. That’s Apple has been buying back shares non stop. Their lead designer jumped ship a while ago. It’s only a matter of time.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
kinda like how youtube takes massive cut of ad revenue, which is why they switch to patreon, brand deal and promotions.
hector@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
These Silicon Valley parasites are taking way more than a fair share. Every industry is Consolidated and the few gatekeeping corporations left take more than their fair share that is the entire problem. Capitalism does not work without controls. Never has, I never will. This absolute free market talk has always been ad hoc, to further the business interests of those making the arguments.
Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Choose another payment method. Choose another platform - web based? - where these fees don’t apply. Hell, buy a throwaway droid phone to keep your money from apple’s greedy hands.
lechekaflan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Makes me think why ever since Photoshop was first created, Apple became the go-to for creatives for decades, and now Apple thinks it wants more money than just the fanatics going after their latest product.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
“Walled garden initiates tollbooth policy.”
rafoix@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Apple App Store and Google Play stores have a market duopoly. They should be forced to forfeit all or most of its fees.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
There are a few EU alternatives. Why are those not being considered.
LiberaPay is one.
Bongles@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Hasn’t this type of thing already been litigated?
JensSpahnpasta@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
To make this clear: Patreon is a platform mainly used by creators, artists, musicians to get a reliable income directly from their fans. Apple is trying to steal 30% of the income of our favorite artists.
Flagstaff@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Good thing none of us have iPhones here, right, guys? Right?
HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Been locked in this ecosystem for a while guys. I’m not proud of it.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Definetly not, wayyyy to closed.
knexcar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But I like my blue iMessages!
kevin2107@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t rofl
njordomir@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, hopefully Patron doesn’t roll over and just removes the option to do it in iPhone. Taking away functionality will make Apple look bad, which they deserve.
other_cat@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
They already caved.
My Source: https://www.engadget.com/big-tech/patreon-creators-have-to-switch-to-subscription-billing-by-november-thanks-to-apple-203759852.html?src=rss
scarabic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I really think this move blows and I wish they would reverse this decision and make an exception.
However Tim Cook didn’t wake up one day and wonder how he could fuck creators. Apple takes a 30% cut of all app transactions. This is how they benefit from the enormous and highly successful app platform and ecosystem they created. It’s not pure evil to say “hey use this platform all you want but you must share some of what you make there with us.”
It does suck that they won’t let creators off the hook though. This is like taxing rips.
Taldan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The platform is enormous and highly successful solely because it is a monopoly in the Apple ecosystem
I guarantee you if other app stores were allowed on Apple devices, they would take significant market share with a far smaller cut of revenue