The plan has always been to let the poor people die
Humanity will likely survive climate change, but the vast majority of humans won't.
Submitted 8 months ago by Nay@feddit.nl to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Comments
omgboom@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
bss03@infosec.pub 7 months ago
My biggest issue used to be that in the global industrial base collapses, we won’t have surface coal/oil available to restart it. I’ve been informed that we might be able to restart just from turpentine. (Wind and solar both need advanced manufacturing techniques so can’t be bootstrap electrical sources.)
That said, I don’t think I’m very interested in hanging around after the global Internet collapses. My interests are too niche to be satisfied within a regional power grid.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 7 months ago
Water is the only renewable energy source that isn’t that much more complicated than coal.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 7 months ago
One half of us die, the other half will be happy with the results. To bad it won’t be those who denied and brought the problem about
BotsRuinedEverything@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Democracy and capitalism won’t survive. 100 years from now we will all be north Korea. 1000 years from now we will all live in medieval feudalism.
starlinguk@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Worse than medieval feudalism. Lords were expected to look after their vassals.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
this but unironically. democracy can only function in a society with good education, otherwise you end up with populists.
and education gets to the people because it pays off for the people economically. you give 18 years of your lifetime, you receive a well-paying job afterwards. if economic growth slows down, people won’t be engineers anymore and people will receive less education, thus weakening democracy.
crapwittyname@feddit.uk 7 months ago
If, in some cataclysm, all of scientific knowledge were to be destroyed, and only one sentence passed on to the next generation of creatures, what statement would contain the most information in the fewest words? I believe it is the atomic hypothesis that all things are made of atoms — little particles that move around in perpetual motion, attracting each other when they are a little distance apart, but repelling upon being squeezed into one another. In that one sentence, you will see, there is an enormous amount of information about the world, if just a little imagination and thinking are applied.
Richard Feynman
So, if, during the apocalypse, you have access to a means of passing on a message to the poor bastards who have to live in the New World, it should be this:
“Everything is made of atoms”
TempermentalAnomaly@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Atomism existed for millenia before we investigated this possibilty to such a degree that we were able leverage that concept to change the world. Its goes back to the 8th century BCE in India and the 5th century BCE in Greece. In both cases, people engaged in it imaginatively and thinking was applied. But its reach was small and only effected a small group who weren’t able to make a large societal impact.
Even in the 17th century, when there was a revival of interest in epicurean atomism, it was actively competing with corpulism. Hell, Mendelev, creator of the periodic table, didn’t believe in atoms. That’s sort of crazy to me!
Dalton, whose atomic weight was leveraged by Mendeleev and the rest rejected, posited what later became the basis of modern atomic theory. Einstein further developed this with Brownian motion describing how atoms effected the seemingly random movements of pollen. Perrin later verifies this experimentally in 1908.
So more than just the idea, it’s the culture of inquiry, debate, skepticism, investigation, and, eventually, experimentation that is important. Not just the idea. I guess, if I were to preserve anything, it would be that culture. No sentence can do that. But people’s radiance can.
*: Disclaimer: this is a quick gloss of a long timeframe. A lot of details were omitted.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 months ago
Fuck Ted Faro.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
nah, the idea that everything is made from atoms is not very useful for most practical applications. you can even build fully-functional wind turbines and lightning bulbs without ever understanding anything about atoms.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 7 months ago
Periods mfer! Can you use one‽
jsomae@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
Misleading headline. I would wager that 100% of humans alive today will not survive, if we don’t act quickly to resolve senescence.
MehBlah@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Eventually, no one alive will survive.
vane@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It depends where the hot is coming from. If it’s from inner earth we won’t survive because people can’t survive outside of this planet.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 8 months ago
We already heated the world 1.5 degrees in less than 100 years. If we break 3 then that’s probably the end of most macroscopic life on earth.
Allonzee@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Nah.
We think we’re that powerful, but there’s an entire domain of creatures we can barely reach that utilize geothermal energy that will just keep plugging away out of our sphere of influence.
Surface and shallow water life is and will suffer greatly until we burn ourselves out and are no longer a threat on the scale we currently are, but humans are even egotistical in this topic. We couldn’t come close to sterilizing this world, even if it magically became as important to us as fucking one another over for paper simulacra of supposed value.
We are a nuisance, but we aren’t the first evolutionary nuisance the earth has dealt with. We have no mastery over this world as much as many like to believe so. A nuclear detonation possesses a tiny fraction of the power of a volcanic eruption.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
The majority of humans won’t survive the next 100 years, because almost nobody lives to be 100.
Do you mean that the majority of people currently alive will die due to climate change.
Do you mean that humanity’s population will drop by over 50% and will not recover?
Do you mean that in the future, the majority of deaths will be due to climate change, even in 200 years from now when the new (much hotter) equilibrium will be all anyone has ever known?gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
I think there will be a large decline in population numbers, but it should be through low birth rates and not through wars/famines. also, it will take probably a century or longer, and not happen within a few years.
we’re facing extreme economic pressure in the next 5 years to successfully implement economic reforms (tax the rich, universal basic income) to be able to survive. but, as many people have pointed out already, UBI is ultimately only a bandaid solution, because it relies on political goodwill from activists fighting for the good cause, and that makes it questionable whether it can stay implemented un-interruptedly for very long times. so, population decline would make the society more resilient because people could demand higher wages, because there’s lower supply of human labor, and that would be a long-term solution.
PeriodicallyPedantic@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
But would that really constitute “the vast majority of humans won’t [survive]?”
I don’t necessarily disagree, but I don’t understand what OP means by that claim.
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
Plus, we will hold on to some percentage of technical knowledge that will help us adapt faster.
FYI, collapseos.org is planning for this eventuality.
Sent from my TI-84+
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
My bet for climate change is a massive migrational crisis and wars over resources.
Humankind won’t disappear, not even civilization. But life would probably be shit, and many many people will die.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
Life isn’t shit now? Life wasn’t shit in the “good times”?
sukhmel@programming.dev 7 months ago
It may as well still get a bigger shit
Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org 8 months ago
I think a lot will depend on whether nuclear wars break out but yeah, even in the worst case scenarios I don’t see civilization dissappearing entirely. And honestly it all kinda makes sense to me. Nature has to regulate itself somehow. If one species becomes too dominant things get tipped out of balance. If you have an infection because an organism that is usually present in small numbers on your body has turned predatory and is growing beyond sustainable levels you develop a fever until things are back to normal. It’s the alternative to dying. (Matrix Elrond had it right)
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Some humans will survive but, with the state of the world today, I think we’re already pretty close to losing our humanity.
Goldholz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
Yup. That is my consensus. But the thing is: at what cost. At the cost of losing so much life and beauty
YknsNMo000@thelemmy.club 8 months ago
I don’t care if I don’t survive but I’m taking a couple of polluters with me lmao
fdnomad@programming.dev 8 months ago
When we experience and maybe survive the next mass extinction, its going to be vastly more difficult to reindustrialize / redigitalize even if knowledge persists because we’ve already extracted the most easily accessible materials from the earth and extracting resources is becoming increasingly difficult.
If you know how to build a battery but you cant build to machines to get the lithium, you just cant build a battery. But I suppose over time we’d find better ways to recycle.
TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
It depends on which kind of climate disaster we’re facing. If it’s reversible over the next million years, humanity as a species should be fine. The population would be cut down to just a tiny fraction, and the survivors might have to start from pre-industrial tech level.
If it’s irreversible, and the Earth becomes a Venus like hellscape, the whole planet should be pretty much sterilized. Good luck surviving that.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 8 months ago
depends if you leaving on a seabord, which most people are. maybe tibetians in the tibetian plataeu.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
Maybe I’m naive but I don’t really see the dooms day
Climate change has some nasty consequences. However, I don’t see it wiping out 5 billion people.
crapwittyname@feddit.uk 7 months ago
You are under informed
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 8 months ago
,maybe if it something sudden like asteroid impact, like 10km wide made of iron, or a supervolcanoe eruption.
ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 8 months ago
A large band around the equator will become unsurvivable. Hundreds of millions of people will flee to cooler climates. Countries will already be straining to provide food and water for their people. This will lead to wars for resources. Nations with nuclear capabilities will fracture and collapse, leaving their weapons in the hands of warlords and despots. Pandemics like COVID will become increasingly more common, not just for humans but for our livestock and crops. I hope you are right, but then again 5 billion might be a conservative estimate.
higgsboson@piefed.social 8 months ago
This will lead to wars for resources.
Have I got some bad news for you.
P00ptart@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Bud, it’s just getting started. Wait till the Mississippi is inundated with salt water and flows north depending on the time of day.
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
Take the amount of calories that the world can produce per day. Divide by 1500. You got the upper limit the globe can support in a medium term
Crops are already failing due to droughts and floods. More and more land is turning into land that is not able to sustain crop growth
And that’s even completely ignoring a potential even bigger problem of clean water
Billions will die. Not in 5 or 10 years. But earlier than you’d think
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Yeah, maybe you should look a little harder?
Wait until crops start dying en masse due to higher temperatures, too many bad insects, too few good insects, no more water.
Wait until you get your 50 degree celcius Summers, which apparently already started in select countries this year.
Wait until forest fires become so big that they simply can’t be controlled anymore and start burning down entire cities
Wait until drinkable water runs out due to us emptying all aquefiers, wells, etc.
Wait until water, food, etc scarcity due to climate change starts the bigger wars over the scraps that are left
You won’t have to wait long, we’re working hard on making these features a reality soon.
I’m not sure what will kill the most people, but I pity those that survive
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
I’m looking for more factual peer reviewed research.
I haven’t seen anything to suggest that billions will die. That seems very far fetched to me.
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
I love to see it, and I genuinely hope you’re right!
LifeOfChance@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Plus, we will hold on to some percentage of technical knowledge that will help us adapt faster.
You’re running off the assumption that the survivors know useful information and that theyre also able to utilize that useful information plus be able to source needed materials since they wont have travel
Example: I know I need an antibiotic for my infection but I dont know how to create that antibiotic or how to guide someone on how to make it. If I did know id also have to get lucky that the region I live in has all the materials needed to make it. We source all around the world for our stuff.
Likely humanity will survive but probably wont advance as fast as you think.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 8 months ago
You’re running off the assumption that the survivors know useful information and that theyre also able to utilize that useful information plus be able to source needed materials since they wont have travel
I think we’re assuming books will continue to exist.
I think one of the real marvels of civilization is the redundancy of information. For every college course you’ve taken there’s a text book, and there may have been dozens of physical copies of that book used in your class, but also for many other classes at other schools that taught that same subject. There may have been 10,000 copies of that book in circulation across the globe, in many different countries.
It’s not impossible to lose information forever, but we’ve put in some really strong defenses against that really happening.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Likely progression is simply that food gets expensive, and is grown indoors. Technology doesn’t need to fall, though when slaves are not needed, soylent green is a “utilitarian” use for them under rules based world order. Food capacity and population that can afford to buy it will match. Fewer people does mean fewer iphones, and more expensive at lower scale.
Global warming, even at 5C, is more about increased misery and oppression, rather than mass deaths over a decade. Wikipedia will survive. The AI tech giants chatbots will explain why you need to die or be miserable until you die.
spizzat2@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
The available worlds looked pretty grim. They had little to offer him because he had little to offer them. He had been extremely chastened to realize that although he originally came from a world which had cars and computers and ballet and Armagnac, he didn’t, by himself, know how any of it worked. He couldn’t do it. Left to his own devices he couldn’t build a toaster. He could just about make a sandwich and that was it.
-Douglas Adam’s, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy
Arthur Dent realizes that he, as an individual, is pretty useless for improving a society, but he can make a damn fine sammie.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
I’m pretty proud of myself as i believe i could at least build a water turbine to produce electricity and light bulbs, at least i know the building plans for them, but i lack the mechanical skills to actually weld together things.
AnarchistArtificer@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That was a delightful video; thanks for sharing
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Thanks for the TED talk (really)
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
Just for clarification, I don’t think it’ll be fast. It will just be faster than without it.
Also, I think we’ll hang on to a lot because the survivor base will likely be made up of people from all walks of life. STEM Professionals, teachers, carpenters, you name it. And as long as we learned our lesson about religion, we’ll pass that knowledge on.
P00ptart@lemmy.world 8 months ago
And stem professionals are also violence professionals (i.e. military and cops)? STEM tends to be very specific in their knowledge base these days. Yeah, they know how to make solar panels, but do they know where to get those materials, how to mine them? Even 80 years ago, it took several teams of hundreds of scientists to figure out nuclear energy. Lose half that team of specified individuals working together and you just have an idea. And those smart individuals gained their knowledge from smart individuals before them, and same for those individuals.
Look at Greek fire or the pyramids for examples of lost technology that 2000 years later, we still can’t figure out. Losing a scientist here or there is generally not that big of a deal, but when you can’t control how many or who goes, you lose control of the knowledge.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
“The planet will be fine. We’re fucked.
- St. Carlin
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
St. Carlin
100% . I love to see it!
FenrirIII@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Him and Buddy Christ
z3rOR0ne@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
I know I’m a misanthrope because I don’t find any silver lining in this truth.
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
This quote really stuck with me. It’s where I see the silver lining:
“Blessed are those who plant trees under whose shade they will never sit.”
Montagge@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
We killed millions of species to make the rich richer, but some humans survived so that’s nice
scott@lemmy.org 8 months ago
Climate change is just the tip of the big white iceberg
OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Yep. It doesn’t count any of the other huge problems we’re creating.
- Our farming techniques deplete the land and turn it to desert
- Over-fishing/hunting have led multiple animal populations on the brink of collapse. Even a small change could end it.
- We’re very close to depleting aquifers all over the globe. Once those are gone we don’t have anything to drink or to water our crops.
- We’re poisoning the skies and waterways with toxic chemicals, plastics, and forever chemicals.
- We’re breeding antibiotic resistant germs and modern travel allows viruses to spread worldwide in hours/days
We’re rushing towards our destruction in multiple ways. Any of those alone would result in massive deaths. And as resources get tighter, disputes and wars will break out over what’s left.
All of these together will nearly certainly lead to our destruction. And this is going to start hitting hard within 5-10 years.
baggachipz@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
The saddest part is that we have the technology and means to fix any and all of these, just not the desire.
scott@lemmy.org 8 months ago
I said the same thing 5 years ago and guess what? It’s already hitting hard. Look at America right now, just black bagging people off the street.
Onyxonblack@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
This all sounds amazing to me! Being a Misanthropic Anti-Natalist, I literally crave the idea of Humanity going extinct… I want us all dead yesterday! Please hurry the fuck up Climate Change! Fucking Pathetic Humans.
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
Just the tip?
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Humanity will likely survive climate change.
I like your optimism, but I don’t share it. We honestly don’t know, one way or the other. What we do know is that human extinction in on the table and growing in probability. When I look at human actions as our cumulative knowlegde of these risks grew, well, I’m not exactly confident our species will make it.
njm1314@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Humanity might, but human society and civilization won’t. So what’s the point even?
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
It was a shower thought?
It just hit me in a sobering kinda way.
njm1314@lemmy.world 8 months ago
No you misunderstand, I’m not saying the thought has no point. I’m saying what’s the point of saying we survive if civilization and Society doesn’t. As Humanity really survived at that point.
hypnicjerk@lemmy.world 8 months ago
the vast majority of humans didn’t survive even before anthropogenic climate change
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I don’t like this shower thought. It puts bad vibes out into the world and I’m not about that right now. Im having a good day for once, lol.
Nay@feddit.nl 8 months ago
I’m sorry. I promise I’m a big picture optimist, if that helps! 😜
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 7 months ago
as a species, maybe, as a civilization, no.