Submitted 10 months ago by nicerdicer@feddit.org to youshouldknow@lemmy.world
This might be relevant to those who wish / have to use Windows 11:
This week, Microsoft made it very clear that it wants to block the popular BYPASSNRO workaround, used to skip the internet and Microsoft Account requirement checks during the Windows 11 installation OOBE (initial setup), although thankfully, the script can still be created using Registry edits.
A 7 step guide.
This is great. Most other comments only talking about how the solution is to “install Linux”. But thats not a viable solution for us Admins setting up PC’s for users in a company who barely understand how to use a Windows machine, never mind them ever even hearing of the word Linux.
I would love to install Linux on some users machines that dont use the PC for anything other than Internet Access. But I know they would still have a cow.
Since I saw they were getting rid of Bypassnro ive been panicking, wondering if I’m going to start having to set up a Microsoft account for all my users. I’ll test this on Monday and hopefully breath easy. That is until they decide to strip us of this solution as well.
The just install Linux crowd gets really old. How’s that gonna help on a work machine where I HAVE to use Office to collaborate? Oh right, it’s not! Totally unhelpful.
100% of my office relies on at least WSL.
All our servers are Linux.
Tons of huge multi-national companies are already using Google Docs which run great in Linux.
It’s coming.
Eh, depending on what’s being done office.com is fine for most.
That aside, if this is a business and you’re using office apps, you have an account that should be getting used during setup. Thats not who this workaround is for, and not who the “just install Linux” comment is for.
Libre Office…
work machine where I HAVE to use Office to collaborate?
Taking the bait, what is specific to Office that is needed?
I agree. Lemmy is like. “Use Linux…”
“Oh you still want to use Windows? Why do you still drown puppies and club baby seals?”
Deep down in places you don’t talk about at parties, you want me clubbing seals and installing windows.
Don’t say Linux then. If they already barely know windows, that’s an ideal situation, it’s going to be similarly confusing either way.
If your concern is that you think they would run into more stability issues when using a linux-based OS vs Windows, that’s a reasonable concern. But if we’re comparing against a sufficiently stable distro release, I don’t think it’s well founded.
If someone doesn’t understand how to use Windows, they’ll probably find Linux easier. Probably all they need is Firefox and Libre office.
I think libre office is even a maybe in this case. Give them a browser and they’ll be fine.
Iirc they aren’t getting rid of the method, they’re just making it less obvious.
If you’re setting them up for a company, you’ll join too a domain anyway and it’s a non-issue. Probably even have it automated using WDS or a similar 3rd party solution.
Doesn’t make it any less annoying as a policy from Ms, but for any company of like 50+ employees, it shouldn’t affect anything.
I have not set up WDS for my company but its on my list of learning how to do. Currently I go through the process of setting up a local admin before I add to domain. So I go through initial setup and then add to domain once I’m at the desktop.
I’m one IT guy for a company of 150 users.
If you’re managing fleets of windows installs you should already be using some kind of autounattend.xml script for settings like Automated Winstall. More info in this video. You can also use older Windows 11 ISOs and update after setup if you’re uncomfortable with that.
Not defending the decision by Microsoft, just pointing out some workarounds that should continue to work.
Oh, yeah… Linux. I think I saw one of those at the zoo
You can use NTLite to set up local accounts during installation, skip the OOBE, remove TPM requirements, strip down some of the bloat, and disable some of the tracking. You can have it include driver packs and updates too. All I have to do after installation is log in, domain join if necessary, and set up user accounts.
Could you not use an outdated ISO of a windows that supports local accounts, and then apply updates ?
“Linux is far too complex for the common person to use.”
Installing windows without your data being harvested: 7 steps, then editing registry files, uninstalling most of the programs that come with it and get reinstalled with every update, use this command prompt, download this program from a random website you’ve never heard of before…
Installing Linux without your data being harvested: Click continue.
Linux is so difficult you guys, no one could possibly learn the command line.
Linux is so difficult you guys, no one could possibly learn the command line.
In the vast VAST majority of “normal” use cases, which I’d argue for most people it’s :
there are reliable ways to use a GUI. So… even though IMHO the command line is absolutely worth learning, one can perfectly use Linux my “just” clicking their way around.
I work in IT (almost exclusively Windows) and have been using Linux on my private machines for 8 years now. I barely know anything about the command line. I don’t have to be a Linux nerd because it just works with the GUI. (KDE Plasma. Can’t speak for other DEs)
I’ve swapped back and forth between Linux and Windows a half dozen times now, and I can honestly say, both are a bitch to set up from a clean install.
Even with guides and autoloading scripts and whatnot, it’s still going to be a few days of pain while you try to figure out what else needs to be installed to use the computer the way you want to use it.
Or that’s how it works for me.
I mostly just wish more games were linux native.
can you explain why it takes you that long to set up a new linux install? for me a fresh install with a (really not complex) script to install my required software and copying over config files takes maybe one hour (excluding game downloads of course).
genuinely interested if your setup is that much more complex or where the difference comes from.
Orrrrrr, hear me out, just click once and get an online account because you don’t care.
And yes, the command line is an issue to most regular users. My parents don’t grasp the concept of keyboard shortcuts for copying and pasting. I get a phone call every time they try to attach a file to an email, where they say the steps when they are doing it so they don’t fuck it up. If you use the computer to access a single webpage that’s bookmarked, youtube and ebay, maybe an hour every week at most, expecting them to have to learn a new system and a command line isn’t feasible. People like icons and clicking. If you managed to get rid of a keyboard and maintain functionality, they’d switch in a heartbeat. That’s why smartphones are so popular. That’s why kids preffer touchscreen over controller, and are basically unable to play keyboard and mouse anymore.
If you use the computer to access a single webpage that’s bookmarked, youtube and ebay, maybe an hour every week at most, expecting them to have to learn a new system and a command line isn’t feasible.
You don’t need to access the command line (nor even the system really) to do browsing. The same browser you use on windows is gonna work on Linux.
Lemmy is the 1% user base on steam hardware surveys os section. …steampowered.com/…/Steam-Hardware-Software-Surve…
By far most people want to use windows. The people that are loud on here about Linux are the only ones that don’t so thank you for a solution that’s not the constant post saying just install Linux. Its not intuitive for almost all users aside IT people and enthusiasts.
It’s not even viable for me. I simply cannot use Linux daily because all my jobs require software that doesn’t have a Linux version, or it does but it’s lacking necessary features, or there’s an alternative but I have to burn extra hours making it work with their systems/setup - hours I don’t have.
Or I have to use internally configured Remote Desktop profiles over a VPN (not to be confused with RDP), and you can’t do that specific use case on Linux because it requires using the company’s internal Windows Store with specific Remote Desktop installation.
Or I have to use a specific Outlook instance, locally installed, because somehow they’ve blocked web access (I still haven’t figured out exactly how they set this up).
After a 12 hour day, sure, I can switch back to my dual boot Linux instance and spend 1-2 hours for personal use. But the ratio is still Windows-leaning no matter how you slice it.
People are usually talking about private computers. Of course you can’t simply switch your employers OS.
Windows intuitively making you jump through 7 steps to not have an online account. The reality sadly is most Windows users will just be pushed by Microsoft to use a Microsoft account to access their own PC.
Only 1% of Windows users who are IT people and enthusiasts will find out how to avoid being forced into internet based accounts.
By far most people want to use windows.
Do they though? I’d bet a significant share do not “want” to, but they are stuck there, convinced there are no viable alternatives.
If installing something like Linux Mint is not intuitive enough for someone, they probably don’t even know what they’re doing on Windows either.
Honestly a lot of people just don’t realize how easy it actually is. They think it’s something arcane and strange
You down vote me for saying the truth.
If you think installing Linux is hard you’ve either never done it and let other people dictate your opinions, you’re incompetent with computers or you can’t follow a simple step-by-step guide.
If you or someone you know sucks with computers, that’s fine. I get not moving someone from Win to Linux if they can’t understand the digital equivalent of tying their shoes. Just get a Chromebook if that’s the case.
Barring cases of disability, using Windows at a basic level is not hard. Most home users use it to browse the dust on the upper crust of the internet, write a doc, print shit and nothing more. I bet if you swapped Win for Linux on most people’s computers and riced it to look like Win 11 many of them would be none the wiser.
I had a family member call me because they were having difficulty with a light switch. They’re not dumb, just set in their ways and can’t be bothered to learn something else. Plenty of these people don’t like change just because it’s different. They got confused when windows started doing the rotating desktop pictures because they didn’t realize it was still their desktop. Do I think they could eventually use Linux? Probably. Do I want to deal with even more questions? No. Could they install it themselves? Absolutely not without help.
You click a button, it’s as difficult as installing Windows since XP.
But more intuitive than constantly working against Windows.
People say Stockholm syndrome is fake, but when I see Windows users, I know it’s real. They have been suffering for years and never thought once about alternatives like Ubuntu.
They have been suffering for years and never thought once about alternatives like Ubuntu
The average user is pretty unaffected by windows’ enshitification. And if it doesn’t fuck over their daily life, most people are more than happy to keep using the thing they’re familiar with. Especially when switching would require not only learning one new thing, but a large number of new things. For example, do you use paint.net? Sucks to suck, time to find a Linux alternative and learn how to use it and hope it can do everything you need it for.
Linux fanatics like to pretend its as simple as installing a different OS and that’s it, everything else in your workflow will work immediately with no research needed. But that’s simply not true.
… everything else in your workflow will work immediately with no research needed.
I’ll put it simply for you: You can spend a few hours figuring out a new workflow, or you can spend the rest of your life fighting a losing battle against a megacorporation that has it out for you that will also randomly upend on your workflow.
The average user is pretty unaffected
The average user complains about Windows all the time around me and I have to fix their crap constantly. It is fucking over their daily life, either by preventing them from working or by swallowing their files into a black hole. Windows users at work don’t care about it, but around me when it’s their personal computer, it’s a disaster.
switching would require not only learning one new thing, but a large number of new things
Any Ubuntu from 10 years ago is identical to the latest Windows. It’s laziness, fear, or being hostage, but it’s certainly not learning something new. Also, Windows 11 is completely different from the previous versions and it didn’t seem to bother them.
I can relate. It is like those tool bars that were installed automatically if you weren’t attentive while installing software when Windows XP still was around.
They like to suffer, I let them.
Me too. I always suggest to them to install UBlock origin (or any ad blocker compatible to their browser), along with add ons that get rid of cookie consent banners. If they follow my advice, I will invest my time into helping them to make their OS a little bit less annoying (e.g. switching off telemetry data and uninstalling Copilot). If they can’t be bothered with at least installing an ad blocker, I will not waste my time on them. They clearly want to suffer.
My parents are almost completely technological-illiterate (i.e. due to old age my father doesn’t even have a cellphone nor knows how to use it, and my mother barely can know how to do calls in her phone - both of them don’t know how to use a computer) but they know they don’t know about stuff - so hearing stories like that kind of make me be thankful they’re like that and that they will hear me when needing some advice or need to do something involving something tech-y
thankful they’re like that
Yep, being humble is THE key to learning. If people assume they know, they discard advice from people who actually invested time to learn about a topic… then they end up in a terrible place due to them cherishing their own ignorance. Very sad but also quite common.
7 steps? I have it down to 3
People like to complain that Linux is complicated to setup and use. In recent years, it’s increasingly the opposite. Basic windows settings locations are shuffled around and hidden and you have to use the Windows Commandline/Powershell to get things done. And installing Linux is also much faster and most of all doesn’t ask you a hundred questions how to best steal your data.
Just turned a Win10 machine into Ubuntu not too long ago. It took all day, broke several times, and still has issues booting remotely. It is getting easier, but a 30 minute Windows install with a few button presses is still easier, unfortunately
That’s not a Linux problem, that’s a PEBKAC or hardware problem.
Next time try Mint.
Maybe you were just unlucky in your specific hardware combination? I did literally dozens of Ubuntu installations on very different hardware over the years. Most of the time it was a matter of minutes, and without any glitches or need for troubleshooting.
You are right. From what I saw Linux-based OSs have come a long way. The issue with Linux is when it comes to professional environments, that are not IT-related: There are niche programs that are used in certain professions that were written to work on Windows computers exclusively. They are not availiable for other OSs, because they are not wide spread or popular with non-professionals. Also, Microsoft Office (especially Outlook and Excel) is very dominant within the professional field - up to a point that it can’t be changed easily. All this does not apply to users who use Linux computers outside a professional enviroment, as there are alternatives for popular programs and services already.
Yeah, I know. Especially the MS Office dominance is still a problem in business scenarios. For private use though there are office solutions which are “good enough” (Office 365 and Google Docs, Spreadsheets etc in a Browser, Libreoffice to name a few)
Agree. The installation isn’t a barrier. Basic OS navigation probably isn’t either anymore. Its still having to use alternative software and work arounds that I think is the frustrating part for the average user attempting to switch. Also, it’s that they can’t use Linux at work in many cases and it’s uncomfortable to switch environments on a daily basis from home computing to workplace computing. You’d think with nonsense like the crowds trike crash more businesses would force the switch, but unfortunately I don’t get the sense that is happening.
uncomfortable to switch environments on a daily basis from home computing to workplace computing
How so? Most people just use a browser and edit basic documents. Once those apps are started the OS itself matters little, basic things like copy/paste or alt/tab work exactly the same. Chances are at work they don’t even have the right to admin their machine so for “complex” things it’s out of their reach there.
Install. Linux. Mint.
My sarcasm has less steps than this workaround. A linux install has less steps than that.
How to setup your desktop as a desktop: only 7 steps!
LINUX. Jesus it’s fucking Linux.
I use linux for everything except for one critical app that does not yet work on linux outside of a virtual machine. But, my computer is not powerful enough to run it in a virtual machine.
There are also no alternatives to it either. So, I have a second computer to use windows for just that, but the day it works on linux is the day I say bye to windows forever.
There are also no alternatives to it either
Just curious, what is it?
is dual booting not an option for you?
L
I
N
U
X
But that’s only 5 steps!
L I N U X I N U X L N U X L I U X L I N X L I N U
As a civilization, we need to accept that we can no longer continue to depend on Microsoft Windows to use our computers. Hopefully the transition will go through without Microsoft having the opportunity to try to save themselves.
Bought an old laptop for my daughter’s first computer. She’s going to just learn typing and some simple stuff. Not able to install Windows with a local account. Fedora KDE it is then.
fun fact Rufus already has all of this automated and even has steps to have the local account of your choice already as part of the image
Honestly, guys, gals and others, Microsoft is making it crystal clear they don’t want you to use their OS. It’s not your OS, it’s theirs. Stop trying mangle it into something it is not. If you need registry edits just to make the OS usable, it’s not worth it. It’s not for you. Please, please, please look at alternatives that respect you, your intelligence, your privacy and your data. One day Microsoft will push an update that will lock you out of your machine unless you create an account. Jumping through these hoops is just delaying the inevitable. Using an OS is not worth all this effort and stress.
That would need at least some basic amount of self-respect.
Let’s just not install windows?
Who actually uses Microsoft Windows?
Mostly companies who have platform specific software that would cost to much to replace or take to long to replace. There’s still companies that run ancient versions of OSs like Pre Mac OS X and Windows 95 because there’s simply no newer OS that can run a specific software besides that OS.
Many
Thanks. Handy to know.
1 step guide: Linux
Yes yes I know it’s not, but still easier and faster than setting up a new Windows install, getting drivers and installing updates.
I don’t really get it why people jump through these major hoops just to get Windows working the way they want it to. Just ditch the problem.
Looks better than my solution which was to join the machine to a domain then add a local account after. I always add a local account of my machines then add them to a domain. Simple fact is they want to trap people in their walled garden and it isn’t going that well for them.
Well, it’s only gonna be a matter of time before they remove this. I can almost guarantee that.
People who can’t or don’t want to use Linux should just use Windows LTSC or IOT. It’s honestly the next best thing. I just set it up for my brother. When you open up the start menu on the fresh install and there is nothing there out of the box, it’s such a nice feeling. No ads, no games, no onedrive, nothing. The only thing LTSC has is Microsoft Edge but even that one you can uninstall.
Licenses are expensive, but you can easily activate it with mas.
Recently needed to set up a Win11 VM. It worked after removing the network adaptor from the VM setup, and then using the bypassnro command.
Fucking Microsoft.
Ok, but how does this affect Linux?
Question: what is the downside of making a throwaway ms account upon install and never touching that account again?
Meta : I’d be curious to know the ratio of people downvoting the “Linux!” suggestion who actually do so from Windows.
I work at an MSP 99% of all machines we deploy for our clients are windows based. The oobe /bypassnro is just mandatory for initial setup. Yes, there are ways around it post setup but it’s just that much extra to do.
Having a local admin account for domain or azure/entra joined is still very useful. I don’t get why MS refuses to accept this. (Money/data harvesting aside, we all know the real reason, just wish they’d just admit to it).
The more you guys say “Linux is the future”, the more money I make as a winadmin. Please continue 😗
anindefinitearticle@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Viri4thus@feddit.org 10 months ago
This guy fucks!
mspencer712@programming.dev 10 months ago
That’s right. Even if you have to use a windows app that Linux compatibility layers don’t support, you can banish Windows 11 to a virtual machine.
Oh, weird, even in a virtual machine it wants an account. Anyone know where I can find a bypass method? :-)
SatansMaggotyCumFart@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Just put Linux on the VM.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The number of Windows applications that don’t run via compatibility layers is small and shrinking. Unless everyone is a video editor who steams professional Valorant then they can find software to do what they need done.
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 10 months ago
Or use WinApps