Can you un-smart a smart tv?

Comments

• AMillionMonkeys@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  ‘splurging’ on a dumb tv

  This might not be the best advice if money is an object, but some LG OLEDs can be rooted simply by visiting a website:
  rootmy.tv
  So you get a top-quality screen and complete control over the software.
  Personally, I’ve never connected my LG OLED to the internet and it works just great.

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  • Shadow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This doesn’t work on the latest firmware FYI.

    I use this to run an instance of Hyperion on the tv to run leds on the back of it, that dynamically change color to match the show. Since it’s native on the tv it works in jellyfin or my pc hdmi cable.

    For me running jellyfin in the tv works so well, it’s worth giving it network access.

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  • Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If you dont mind me asking - what do you use your TV for?

    If it’s a gaming, or watching movies off your home server, that makes sense.

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    • conciselyverbose@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      A lot of the people making the suggestion are paying for a box. It might look the same as the built in Android TV a lot of the time, but you can have something that doesn’t choke loading apps as often, or a box you specifically chose for better support or more ability to modify the base Android.

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    • kescusay@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Even if you want streaming, don’t use the TV’s apps. Use a Chromecast or attach an entertainment PC to it. Chromecasts can be replaced for cheap, PCs can be upgraded. Neither is true of a “smart” TV.

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    • AMillionMonkeys@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ve got a cable DVR and a Raspberry Pi running LibreElec plugged into it.
      I’ve only experimented a little with gaming since I don’t own a console and my PC is in another room. I had the whatever the Steam software is installed on the Pi for awhile, so I could stream games from the PC.

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  • Thwompthwomp@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I have an lg tv that I route through a pihole that blocks most stuff. I wasn’t going to connect it to the internet, but it had airplay support. I think I’m using this list: github.com/TheShawnMiranda/LG-TV-Ad-Block

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    • zelifcam@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Why not just set up a static IP on the TV and a rule on your router to prevent it from talking to the internet? That way it has LAN access but not WAN.

      I do this to all of my smart devices.

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  • Diplomjodler@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Me too. Basically I just use a Chromecast for everything. I also have a Linux PC hooked up to the TV but that’s just not very convenient to use while lying on the sofa.

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    • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I have a Linux pc hooked to the TV and it’s very convenient to use while lying in the sofa. In fact that’s all I use the TV for. And the reason I am interested in this post, as my 12 years old dumb TV will kick the bucket on day it the other.

      The pc is my server/nas and runs kodi in a container that outputs to the TV. It has no keyboard nor mouse, but I do have a remote controller that I had lying around from an old android TV box. Basically you turn the TV on and kodi is there waiting with all my movies, series, and iptv to choose from. With a great remote controller that works beautifully with kodi.

      The remote is a minix neo a2 I have had for years. Highly recommend it. If it dies I’ll do a quick research to see if there is something better this days, but I’d be keen to buy another one straight away.

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• otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Yeah, it’s usually the internet that makes it smart. The easiest way is to never let it connect to the internet at all.

  The more complex, but potentially better, way to do it would be to let it only connect to certain parts of the internet that it needs (e.g. for updates?), but block it from communicating with other parts of the internet (e.g. where it gets its ads from) or your own home network.

  I’m not an expert, but hopefully someone more knowledgeable comes along to help!

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  • droopy4096@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    manufacturer may very well integrate add and update endpoints so that it’s rather hard to distinguish. For example, say Samsung decides to serve adds and updates. Doing so through serives.samsung.com/{ads,updares} they leave you with 0 handle on what’s going on, since the only thing your routers and proxies can see is “samsung.com” and differentiator is “hidden” after that. So TLDR; is: you either allow internet access or you do not, there’s no “a little bit”

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    • otp@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      So TLDR; is: you either allow internet access or you do not, there’s no “a little bit”

      Good point! There would be “temporarily” though, which might work for updates. Of course, then it might just serve you the same ads forever that it pulls along with its update.

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    • virku@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I am about to set up a pi-hole in my network. Would that help with this scenario?

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    • Tinidril@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This is certainly possible from a technical perspective, but it’s unlikely that it would happen in reality. Consumer product companies are invariably going to want to outsource ads to a third party, not host them from their own systems. It’s also going to be a pretty small percentage of customers that would bother to do this, and they are probably not the ones that are likely to make purchases based on ads anyways.

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  • wise_pancake@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You can generally do firmware updates over USB if you actually need them.

    Also sont devices will grant Ethernet over hdmi, which doesn’t require authentication like wifi, so make sure your set to box isn’t granting internet access to the tv.

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  • jonne@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If you allow updates you risk it updating to a version of the software that stops functioning when disconnected. If it’s functional it’s just better to block internet access altogether.

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• LEDZeppelin@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Disconnect internet / delete WiFi network from smart TV + stream via Apple TV. As simple and easy as it gets.

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  • kinther@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Basically this, except if you aren’t in the Apple ecosystem you can use alternative boxes/sticks to stream. I plugged my TV in initially and it was broadcasting an open wifi signal. I was like NOPE, removed the cable and shut it all down.

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    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Blocking the TVs network, and using Apple just puts all your surveillance into a single system.

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  • moody@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Lots of TVs will connect to open networks automatically if they are available. If you have any open networks around you, disconnecting them from your own wifi may not be enough.

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    • TheBat@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Connect to a guest wifi which doesn’t have internet connectivity.

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  • vampire@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Have you heard of mesh networks?

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    • pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      How are mesh networks relevant?

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  • Zetta@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You definitely don’t need an Apple TV, but this person has the gist right. Remove all data connections to the TV and use an external device to function as the smart part.

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  • rayyy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Don’t forget DVDs.

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• solrize@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’d want to find and physically remove all the microphones and cameras from the TV for peace of mind. Plus never let it have a network connection. Just use HDMI in.

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  • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Remove any networking you can. Remove wifi antennas and cap them with RF test plugs (I forget what they’re called). These absorb RF frequencies, converting them to heat which radiates out of the absorber is IR (If I remember right).

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    • Professorozone@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They are called loads or alternately terminations, but technically you would specify which termination, for instance a 50 ohm termination to distinguish it from a short or open.

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  • someguy3@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What streaming tool then? Chromecast, but then Google just tracks it all.

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    • avidamoeba@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      If you’re already using an Android phone with Play Store on it, the additional exposure through the Chromecast is probably not significant. Otherwise, in addition to the other suggestions, you could grab an Android capable board from HardKernel for example and run plain Android TV on it. For example the ODROID-C4. It’s got nearly identical hardware to the CCwGTV. The setup is obviously more elaborate.

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    • linearchaos@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Some form of tiny PC with Kodi and a remote.

      I’m currently looking at jailbreaking an Apple TV for the purpose.

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    • philpo@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Kodi on a Raspberry!Easy to install, once set up it’s rock solid and you can integrate a lot of streaming and IPTV serviced these days.

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    • DaCrazyJamez@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ve replaced rokus / firesticks with cheap mini PCs. Currently they’re running ReviOS (a stripped down version of windows) but I plan to migrate to linux as I get more comfortable with it.

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    • solrize@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That I don’t know. My mom just has Comcast s and we have the cable box HDMI output going to the TV. No streaming though in principle we could use a computer for that.

      I wonder if an HDMI computer monitor could substitute for a dumb TV.

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• FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Yes, even ARM and other System-On-A-Chip hardwares can all be unsmarted. Most of them are easy, you just need to trick it into updating to the correct version and then using built in commands to give you more access: most use Linux such as the TizenOS which is standard on Samsung TVs or the GoogleTV OS which is a modified Android 3.0 or 3.2 version. Some of the more difficult ones can still be forced to dump their OS onto memory cards because their system on a chip has a pin for injecting code natively.

  There is no TV that cannot be unsmarted.

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  • umbrella@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    tell me more about rooting samsumgs, how can i know more

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    • MeThisGuy@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      so now besides rooting my router, my phone, and my tablet I have to root my TV too? internet of things I guess… can I root my car too?

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• ad_on_is@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’ve mine on a separate VLAN that has no internet access. the only thing it is allowed to do is sending and receiving UDP packets on port 14447/14449 for hyperionLED. And that’s about as smart as I allow it to be.

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• JoeyJoeJoeJr@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  For what it’s worth, I just bought a TCL 55S450F (55 inch 4K HDR FireTV) specifically because it does not ever need an internet connection to function (expressly stated in the manual). It is currently on Amazon for $268 (they have other sizes at other prices). It’s a great TV, considering the price. The only real drawback for me is the remote is Bluetooth, rather than infrared (less compatible with universal remotes).

  Note that for full dumb TV effect, you’ll want to go into the settings and tell it to resume the last input, rather than going to the home screen when you turn it on (without connecting it to the Internet, the home screen is basically just a big banner telling you it’s not connected, and when you dismiss that, it just allows you to access inputs and manage settings).

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  • locuester@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I love TCL. Even as a smart TV. I’ve bought several of the ones with Roku built in.

    Assuming the dumb tv version is same picture and build quality as the smart ones, that’s an awesome find.

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• potatopotato@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Buy a large computer monitor

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• nothing@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Sorta. I have some lg tvs and I’ve been able to dumb a lot of it down for their lg services by using a pi-hole ad blocker and adding the lg ad service domains to the blocker. This isn’t totally what you’re asking, but I think you could block even more with some testing.

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  • Kissaki@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    My LG asked me whether I want to enable the smart voice, listening, and AI stuff and I declined.

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  • SuperSynthia@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Guess I need to fish my RPi out of the drawer

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• werefreeatlast@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I just bought a 10 year old 1080p projector and it’s amazing! I can make a 10ft wide wall size screen. It’s like a theater venue in my living room now.

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  • state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Doesn’t 1080 spread over 3m look janky?

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    • bitwaba@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Have you tried viewing it from 3km away?

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  • AlphaOmega@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You can grab 10 year old 720 and 1080p projectors all day from shopgoodwill for like $20

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• Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  For the non-destructive option, yeah preventing it from using the network is about as good as you can make it.

  For mine I intend to open it up once it’s out of warranty and try reflashing the Google TV on it or neuter the board entirely. From a hardware perspective, I expect the panel driver and the smarts to be on separate boards entirely. On mine, the Android TV UI renders at 1080p despite the TV being 4K HDR, so there’s got to be some hardware switching and multiplexing going on to make it work which means it should be possible to bypass the smarts entirely if I can figure out how it signals to change settings and inputs. It’s probably gonna be I2C or something.

  If you’re not too risk averse you can probably at minimum open it up to cut the microphone, camera and WiFi antenna. Although careful with that, they tend to have Bluetooth remotes these days so they’d share the 2.4 GHz antenna, if you disconnect the antenna you’ll have to use the IR fallback. It won’t connect to any network not even open ones if it’s got no antenna.

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• philpo@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Sure. Choose one that still let’s you default connect to a HDMI input (or display port if you are really lucky) and connect a KODI box to it. Either a Raspi 4 or something similar will do.

  That solves most of your problems as the smart part is on the Kodi Box and not on the TV and Kodi is (mostly) OS and can be configured to your liking.

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  • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    TVs have the capability to sample what’s on the screen so it knows what you watch from a streaming device/dvd/bluray connected via HDMI.

    It really needs to have the network blocked.

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    • philpo@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Absolutely - But with HDMI to a Kodi and all other connections disabled there is literally no way for it to get “out”.

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  • thantik@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They’re getting to the point where they can capture their own output - and Amazon is building out a public network for IoT style devices. It’s not long before they’re siphoning data outside of your house even with the wifi turned off.

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    • philpo@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It depends on your infrastructure,sure. But as long as no Amazon Devices are in the apartment/house and the WiFi/radio emitting function is permanently turned off (which, again,is a legal requirement per EU laws - and I am 90% sure per FCC as well) there is little chance of them meshing with something.

      And if you have active Amazon devices in your home the smart TV is not your problem.

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    • SkippingRelax@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ll build a Faraday cage

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• shortwavesurfer@monero.town ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Hammer is best way. I would say, seriously, don’t buy it. Even though it’s more expensive, buy the dumb TV, because that tells companies that there is demand for dumb TVs.

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  • Dariusmiles2123@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    How much more expensive would a dumb TV compared to a Smart TV for the same quality?

    That’s a serious question as I had never thought about all these privacy issues before buying a TV.

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    • ryathal@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Best buy has non smart listing for 55in TVs for about $1,800, it’s also intended for outdoor use. In comparison you can get a 55 in smart tv for $400 from best buy.

      There are listings for an $800 hospitality TV, but that is internet capable.

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    • Ranvier@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They’re not even really available anymore. There’s some but they’re more meant to be directly sold to businesses, and often lack features in addition to costing much more. Easiest thing to do is get a smart TV and just don’t let it connect to the internet.

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    • shortwavesurfer@monero.town ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Honestly, I couldn’t tell you because I haven’t owned a TV in about a decade.

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• chris@l.roofo.cc ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Yes. If you don’t connect it is pretty dumb and shouldn’t be able to send your data for harvesting. You sould research if you can set it to one of the outputs permanently then you can use some external device that you trust.

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  • HaywardT@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It is my understanding that some smart TVs won’t do anything without you connecting and accepting the license agreement.

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    • pearsaltchocolatebar@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Connect, agree, disconnect.

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  • tsonfeir@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Unless someone has an open WiFi near it and it connects without asking.

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    • mp3@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I’ve heard that several time but I can’t find any confirmed case where that happened.

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    • philpo@feddit.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      As long as you deactivate the wireless LAN it shouldn’t be at risk doing that. From my understanding of US FCC and EU rules doing so despite manual deactivation of the “radio emiting technology” would lead to a market ban of the device (it has led to the EU banning other,mostly chinese, electronics in the past and Amazon was in hot water for a while).

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• mox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  You would want to make sure the model you get doesn’t lock you out of selecting an input port until you agree to its terms & conditions and/or let it update its firmware.

  Also, the only way to be sure it can’t give away your data is to open it up and physically disconnect its wireless network module(s). You could instead simply not give it a wifi password, but then you would be gambling on the hope that it won’t quietly connect to whatever neighborhood or drive-by open networks it finds on its own.

  Also bear in mind that buying a smart TV signals to vendors that those are desirable, and rewards manufacturers for producing them, thereby making the problem worse in the long run.

  I avoid the issue by using a projector or computer monitor for watching video. If I were to buy a TV, I would look at dumb models from the likes of Sceptre, and console gaming monitors like those from Philips.

  Here’s a relevant discussion and article from last year:

  news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35484594

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• Meron35@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I prefer the term lobotomize

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• droopy4096@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’m in the same boat. So I kill two birds with one stone when I shop for used dumb TVs - they are cheap and available as general population craves “smart”. Can’t loose there. I got 42" for $25 and larger ones can be had for under $100. So even if you’ll buy a lemon once or twice you’re still ahead

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  • tal@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    There are probably an awful lot out there, but I’d also imagine that there will, one day, come a day when even eBay will run out.

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• vampire@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’m honestly shocked that nobody has mentioned mesh networks. Not connecting your TV to your WiFi is not nearly enough to preventing it from phoning home. You need to open the TV and ground the antenna(e) to physically disable the wireless capabilities. Even then, there may be other antennae hidden under or inside components you can’t disassemble.

  Short answer: No. Your smart TV is smarter than you are.

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• Smokeydope@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Just get the biggest computer monitor you can afford

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• PillowTalk420@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Can’t necessarily make it dumb, but you can change how the smart works without buying a whole new TV by getting something like a Roku stick or any other device similar that runs on android that you can then hack/modify to run side loaded apps and such to get around the bullshit built into the TV.

  Of course if you’re already planning on getting a new TV you could just get one that runs on Android already and do the same thing.

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• JoeCoT@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  A lot of Google/Android TV devices support "Basic TV" mode. You get the option during device setup, you can switch to it later by resetting the device. I would probably also not connect it to the internet, but that should cover making it a dumb device. I bought a Hisense one, tried it with Android TV for a bit, experienced it slow down and freeze up a bunch, and just switched it to Basic TV and plugged in a chromecast. Has worked fine since then.

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  • Paradachshund@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Do Chromecasts not have ads? I’ve never used one.

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    • voracitude@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They do, but a PiHole will stop those just as effectively as it does all other ads on your network 😊

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    • mp3@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The one with Google TV (and a remote) will show sponsored content on the launcher.

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• HaywardT@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’ve gotta believe that inside somewhere there is an HDMI signal going to the monitor that you could move to the outside. I can’t imagine they are using anything else. It would take opening it up and looking around.

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  • Death_Equity@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    HDMI is a communication protocol used by a chip that communicates with the control board for the display. The display does not receive HDMI connection in any form.

    You maybe could find a dumb display driver that is compatible with the display, but what display options or inputs available would be very basic.

    A better option is to buy a commercial display TV that does not have smart functionality.

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    • HaywardT@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Which chip exactly? Show me the datasheet. What SOC do they use for the smarts? Got a data sheet for it?

      How would you think you would physically attach the display to the device “running the dumb display driver software”

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• Num10ck@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  you might be able to do a factory reset on a smart tv and then never configure the wifi after. if you cant do a factory reset then you can change your wifi password and update all you other wifi devices but the tv.

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• valen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Will the TV even setup at all if it can’t connect? I expect it’ll stop working until it can talk to the company again.

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• padge@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I was wondering the same thing. Is anyrhing stopping me from buying a “smart” TV and just never putting it online? My current one hasn’t been connected in years but I bought that thing in 2018, maybe things have changed

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  • SendMePhotos@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Still takes like 10 sec to turn on instead of a “dumb TV” where you pressed power and it was just on.

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  • jdeath@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    that is what i’ve done. you can even disconnect one from the internet and plug in a box any time

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• phanto@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I have a “smart” TV with a network cable plugged into nothing at all, with no wifi connected, plugged into an Oooold Lenovo Tiny PC running Mint. The Mint box does all my smarts. Pihole, ad-block, all that jazz. It never occurred to me that it might have connected to some open wifi out there, but none of my neighbors have guest wifi or anything, so hopefully I’m good. It’s definitely not on my wifi, anyways.

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  • thantik@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You should educate yourself about Amazon’s “sidewalk” network.

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• ANIMATEK@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Block it from your router. Install updates with usb if needed. Get an AppleTV for the rest.

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• maniel@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  …just never connect it to the internet i guess? you have cable or aerial, right?

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• Swarfega@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  No answering the question directly but I’m a large family and having the TV with no streaming services just won’t fly in this household. I pay for NextDNS but if you run a PiHole or AdGuard there’s a good filter for Smart TV’s.

  github.com/Perflyst/PiHoleBlocklist

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