Wow, thank goodness nobody gutted the authority in charge of making sure that wouldn’t happen…
Tesla Robotaxis Reportedly Crashing at a Rate That's 4x Higher Than Humans
Submitted 2 weeks ago by spaghettiwestern@sh.itjust.works to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The AI companies put out a presser a few years back that said “Um, aktuly, its the humans who are bad drivers” and everyone ate that shit up with a spoon.
So now you’ve got Waymos blowing through red lights and getting stuck on train tracks, because “fuck you fuck you stop fighting the innovation we’re creatively disruptive we do what we want”.
roofuskit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
They’ll work perfectly as soon as AI space data center robots go to Mars. I’d say a Robovan will be able to tow a roadster from New York to Hong Kong by… probably July. July or November at the latest.
treesapx@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I really fucking hate how his fans can just listen to him lie like this over and over and it doesn’t affect their opinion of him. I remember falling for it a couple times before I started asking “Is this like the last time you promised dates?”
By that time it was a moot point, however, because that “pedo guy” comment was just around the corner. Now anyone who likes him after that needs to go to therapy to figure out a few things.
I won’t comment on people who support him after the other things.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I will! They’re fucking stupid sheep
ramenshaman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Use lidar you ketamine saturated motherfucker
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Can’t do that. Then he would have to upgrade all legacy cars. And he is missing the lidar dataset.
ramenshaman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The best time to add lidar would have been years ago, the second best time is right now. I don’t think he would have to update the old cars, it could just be part of the hardware V5 package. He’s obviously comfortable with having customers beta testing production vehicles so he can start creating a lidar set now or he can continue failing to make reliable self-driving cars.
Frenchgeek@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
But then he would have to admit being wrong for removing radar…
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s important to draw the line between what Tesla is trying to do and what Waymo is actually doing. Tesla has a 4x higher rate, but Waymo has a lower rate.
merc@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Not just lower, a tiny fraction of the human rate of accidents:
Also, AFAIK this includes cases when the Waymo car isn’t even slightly at fault. Like, there have been 2 deaths involving a Waymo car. In one case a motorcyclist hit the car from behind, flipped over it, then was hit by another car and killed. In the other case, ironically, the real car at fault was a Tesla being driven by a human who claims he experienced “sudden unintended acceleration”. It was driving at 98 miles per hour in downtown SF and hit a bunch of stopped cars at a red light, then spun into oncoming traffic and killed a man and his dog who were in another car.
Whether or not self-driving cars are a good thing is up for debate. But, it must suck to work at Waymo and to be making safety a major focus, only to have Tesla ruin the market by making people associate self-driving cars with major safety issues.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Not just lower, a tiny fraction of the human rate of accidents:
www.iihs.org/research-areas/…/state-by-state
Well, no. Lets talk fatality rate. According to linked data, human drivers
1.26 deaths per 100 million miles traveled
Vs Waymo 2 deaths per 127 million miles :)
TooManyGames@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
I immediately formed a conspiracy theory that Teslas automatically accelerate when they see Waymo cars
ThirdConsul@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Isn’t Waymo rate better because they are very particular where they operate? When they are asked to operate in sligthly less than perfect conditions it immediately goes downhill researchgate.net/…/385936888_Identifying_Research… (page 7, Uncertainty)
73ms@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
We are talking about Tesla robotaxis. They certainly do drive in very limited geofenced areas also. While Waymo now goes on freeways only in the Bay Area with the option being offered to only some passengers Tesla Robotaxis do not go on any freeways ever currently. In fact they only have a handful of cars doing any unsupervised driving at all and those are geofenced in Austin to a small area around a single stretch of road.
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That is certainly true, but they are also better than humans in those specific areas. Tesla is (shockingly) stupid about where they choose to operate. Waymo understands their limitations and choose to only operate where they can be better than humans. They are increasing their range, though, including driving on the 405 freeway in Los Angeles… which is usually less than 35mph!!
jabjoe@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Because Waymo uses more humans?
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Because Waymo doesn’t try and do FSD with only cameras.
MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Musk = POS Nazi.
ToTheGraveMyLove@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
POS Nazi *pedophile
hector@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Mentally challenged POS Immigrant Nazi Pedophile
Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Clearly, AI isn’t just challenging human performance, it’s exceeding it. Four times the crash rate is just the beginning. Just imagine the crash rate when super intelligence comes!
🚘💥🚗
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 2 weeks ago
Who insures these things?
W98BSoD@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Tesla
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Are they even insured like typical insurance?
If Tesla owns it, don’t they just pay out of pocket as needed, they don’t actually have a monthly payment to themselves or anything?
lechekaflan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
ours@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Thanks Obama.
Bazoogle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
a crash with a bus while the Tesla vehicle was stopped
Okay, idk why we would blame this one on the self driving car…
a collision with a heavy truck at 4 mph, and two separate incidents where the Tesla backed into objects, one into a pole or tree at 1 mph and another into a fixed object at 2 mph.
The difference is a lot of these are never reported when it’s done by a human driver. I very highly doubt the rate is 4x higher than humans. I’m not saying the self driving cars are good. I am just saying human drivers are really bad.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
4mph is close to the maximum speed in downtown Austin traffic.
Honytawk@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
What does that spy bloke with the crooked teeth have to do with it?
NachBarcelona@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
In the first piss poor epigone of Neuromancer, the name “Robotaxi” would’ve been laughed at.
Mulon Esk made the dumbest name happen for the xth time.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
a crash with a bus while the Tesla vehicle was stopped
Uuh…wouldn’t that be the fault of the bus? I mean, the system is faulty as fuck so there’s really no need to mix in shit like this, it reduces legitimacy of the otherwise very valid criticism.
duncan_bayne@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That depends entirely where the Tesla stopped, and under what conditions.
ExcessShiv@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Eh, not really though. Generally if your car is stopped, even in the middle of the road, you are not at fault if someone else hits you. You can still get fined for obstruction of traffic, but the incident is entirely the fault of the moving vehicle.
pHr34kY@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m betting it stopped in the path of it. Either by pulling out in front of it, or sitting on the inside of the truck whilst turning.
73ms@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Entirely possible, but all incidents are counted as it would probably be difficult to produce reliable stats where you’re leaving out some based on some kind of an assessment of blame.
Because Tesla hides most of the details unlike the competition we can’t really look at a specific one and know.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Got this saved next time someone tells me that a robot can drive better than a human. They almost had me there, but data doesn’t lie.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A robot can theoretically drive better than a human because emotions and boredom don’t have to be involved. But we aren’t there yet and Teslas are trying to solve the hard mode of pure vision without range finding.
Also, I suspect that the ones we have are set up purely as NNs where everything is determined by the training, which likely means there’s some random-ass behaviour for rare edge cases where it “thinks” slamming on the accelerator is as good an option as anything else but since it’s a black box no one really understands, there’s no way to tell until someone ends up in that position.
The tech still belongs in universities, not on public roads as a commercial product/service. Certainly not by the type of people who would at any point say, “fuck it, good enough, ship it like that”, which seems to be most of the tech industry these days.
greygore@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is more specific to Tesla than self driving in general, as Musk decided that additional sensors (like LiDAR and RADAR on other self driving vehicles) are a problem. Publicly he’s said that it’s because of sensor contention - that if the RADAR and cameras disagree, then the car gets confused.
Of course that raises the problem that when the camera or image recognition is wrong, there’s nothing to tell the car otherwise, like the number of Tesla drivers decapitated by trailers that the car didn’t see. Additionally, I assume Teslas have accelerometers so either the self driving model is ignoring potential collisions or it’s still doing sensor fusion.
Not to mention we humans have multiple senses that we use when driving; this is one reason why steering wheels still mostly use mechanical linkages - we can “feel” the road, we can detect when the wheels lose traction, we can feel inertia as we go around a corner too fast.
This is why many (including myself) believe Tesla has a much worse safety record than Waymo. I’ve seen enough drunk and distracted drivers to believe that humans will always drive better than a human. Don’t get me wrong, I still have concerns about the technology, but Musk and Tesla has a history of ignoring safety concerns - see the number of deaths related to his desire to have non-mechanical handles and hide the mechanical backup.
BlindFrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
humans will always drive better than a human
Typo, or what did you mean?
W3dd1e@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Other robots might be able to, but I wouldn’t trust a Tesla RoboTaxi get me safely across a single street.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Reddit loved that idea.
HarneyToker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Tbf this is just where ex-redditors go, so don’t think we are immune here.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
How often are they just bursting into flames for no reason?
Brgor@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
4x as often as a human I’d expect
NoForwadSlashS@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I didn’t realise spontaneous human combustion was still so prevalent!
ramenshaman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
EVs are far less likely to catch fire than ICE vehicles—20 times less according to Swedish data—despite high-profile media coverage of EV fire incidents.
ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
This is a really funny thing to see a few scrolls down from an article about Tesla’s first wheelless vehicle and finally “solving autonomous driving”
spacebread98@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I thought ai was going to replace all jobs in a year and a half
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hopefully, the French judicial system will throw his worthless pedo neo-Nazi ass into prison.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Curious how the French have jurisdiction over Austin?
SethTaylor@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“In the recorded history of what is now the U.S. state of Texas, all or parts of Texas have been claimed by six countries: France, Spain, Mexico, the Republic of Texas, the Confederacy during the Civil War, and the United States of America.” [ en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Texas ]
Does THIS answer your question? That’s right, Captain. Put’em up! Or shall I say… peut demains apres?
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’re 4 times as capable ~of~ ~crashing~ as a human driver. How efficient!
NachBarcelona@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Whaaa how do you do subscript (?) text! Aaaaah!
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Tildes: ~subscript~ ~text~ = ~subscript~ ~text.~
jjlinux@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Only 4x? Wao, they’re way better than I expected then.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s Austin. The traffic is so shitty you can’t go fast enough to get in a wreck most of the time.
db2@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Rogan: so eaaauhm, yeah that’s definitely a thing huh? But you know all progress must go uphill without breaking a few eggs…right?
Musk: makes that stupid nazi face where he’s smoking weed So we’re going to make Grok a subscription model that watches you sleep in your car as we plug you into the bio battery of your Tesla. Then your mind gets used to train AI models as your driving. But you know, I’m expecting that to work last month, give or take a year or 10.
Rogan: Pluggin in huh? How’s that work?
Musk: Either a port in the back of your arm or an arm up your back, not sure yet.
Rogan: Wow, … so anyway wanna do some dmt?
We can plug it in if you want.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Are we surprised?
Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Whoever could have predicted this?
xSikes@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
And newsom doesn’t give a shit
73ms@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
What does this have to do with Newsom? Tesla isn’t allowed to operate this way in California, the accidents are from the Texas data.
xSikes@feddit.online 2 weeks ago
A parallel effect, without setting a better example and forcing unsafe competition just make crazy be more crazy.
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What does this have to do with Newsom?
user28282912@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Darwin just getting ever more creative over time.
HumanDent@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I mean, people are dying. Including the people who didn’t pay for it. So, kind of a bigger deal than that.
wreckedcarzz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Smh they should have paid for the ‘not killed spontaneously’ package. Their fault, really.
Etterra@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
Time to start spray painting “death machine” on them.
QuietGenesis@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
😱😱😱😱
itsathursday@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Optical recognition is inferior and this is not surprising.
slevinkelevra@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yeah that’s well known by now. However, safety through additional radar sensors costs money and they can’t have that.
tomalley8342@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nah, that one’s on Elon just being a stubborn bitch and thinking he knows better than everybody else (as usual). Image
paraphrand@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
just one more AI model, please that’ll do it, just one more, just you wait, have you seen how fast things are improving? Just one more. Common, just one more…
halcyoncmdr@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
I don’t think it’s necessarily about cost. They were removing sensors both before costs rose and supply became more limited with things like the tariffs.
Too many sensors also causes issues, adding more is not an easy fix. Sensor Fusion is a notoriously difficult part of robotics. It can help with edge cases and verification, but it can also exacerbate issues. Sensors will report different things at some point. Which one gets priority? Is a sensor failing or reporting inaccurate data? How do you determine what is inaccurate if the data is still within normal tolerances?
More on topic though… My question is why is the robotaxi accident rate different from the regular FSD rate? Ostensibly they should be nearly identical.
parzival@lemmy.org 2 weeks ago
I’m not too sure it’s about cost, it seems to be about Elon not wanting to admit he was wrong, as he made a big point of lidar being useless