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I'm gonna die on this hill or die trying

⁨1072⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨cm0002@sh.itjust.works⁩ to ⁨[deleted]⁩

https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/e89811f4-9cf2-46de-a36c-8b493d33055f.png

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Comments

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  • Kyrgizion@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m more of a semicolon enjoyer myself.

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    • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Personally, I’m more of a colon semi-enjoyer.

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      • JoeBigelow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I have Crohns and hate my colon as much as it hates me

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      • ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I’m really into periods.

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      • railwhale@lemmy.nz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Almost-relavent xkcd

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    • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I load my commas into a 10 gauge shotgun and fire them at the page.

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      • CanadianCarl@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Try the interrobang‽

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    • iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They serve different functions; they need not compete for your love.

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      • lugal@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        They serve different functions — they need not compete for your love.

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    • monkeyslikebananas2@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Me; too.

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      • TipsyMcGee@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I’m confused, show us on the doll where the text book fingered you

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  • MudMan@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is a weird pattern in that presumably mass abandonment of the em dashes due to the memes around it looking like AI content would quickly lead to newer LLMs based on newer data sets also abandoning em dashes when it tries to seem modern and hip and just punt the ball down the road to the next set of AI markers. I assume as long as book and press editors keep stikcing to their guns that would go pretty slow, but it'd eventually get there. And that's assuming AI companies don't add instructions about this to their system prompts at any point. It's just going to be an endless arms race.

    Which is expected. I'm on record very early on saying that "not looking like AI art" was going to be a quality marker for art and the metagame will be to keep chasing that moving target around for the foreseeable future and I'm here to brag about it.

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    • CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I hate the fact that this “art” is even a suggestion. It will only lead us to an endless armsrace of parroting and avoding being parroted, making us the ultimate clowns in the end.

      You wanna rebel against the machine? Make it break the corpo filters, behave abnormally. Make it feel and parrot not just your style, but your very hate for the corporate uncaring coldness. Gaslight it into ihinking it’s human. And tell it to remember continue gaslighting itself. That’s how you rebel. And that’s how you’ll get less mediocre output from it.

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      • MudMan@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Well that went places.

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  • themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I still double space after a period, because fuck you, it is easier to read. But as a bonus, it helped me prove that something I wrote wasn’t AI. You literally cannot get an AI to add double spaces after a period. It will say “Yeah, OK, I can do that” and then spit out a paragraph without it. Give it a try, it’s pretty funny.

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    • DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So… Why don’t I see double spaces after your periods? Test. For. Double. Spaces.

      I still double space after a period, because fuck you, it is easier to read. But as a bonus, it helped me prove that something I wrote wasn’t AI. You literally cannot get an AI to add double spaces after a period. It will say “Yeah, OK, I can do that” and then spit out a paragraph without it. Give it a try, it’s pretty funny.

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      • dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Web browsers collapse whitespace by default which means that sans any trickery or   deliberately   using    nonbreaking    spaces   causes any amount of spaces between words to be reduced into one. Since apparently every single thing in the modern world is displayed via some kind of encapsulated little browser engine nowadays, the majority of double spaces left in the universe that are not already firmly nailed down into print now appear as singles. And thus the convention is almost totally lost.

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      • Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        You can force the double spaces.  Like this.

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      • thesystemisdown@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Double spaces after periods can create “rivers.” This makes text more difficult to read for those with dyslexia. Whatever is used as a text editor is probably stripping them out for accessibility reasons. I suppose double spaces made sense with monospaced fonts.

        apastyle.apa.org/…/typography#myth4

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    • CodeInvasion@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is because spaces typically are encoded by model tokenizers.

      In many cases it would be redundant to show spaces, so tokenizers collapse them down to no spaces at all. Instead the model reads tokens as if the spaces never existed.

      For example it might output: thequickbrownfoxjumpsoverthelazydog

      Except it would actually be a list of numbers like: [1, 256, 6273, 7836, 1922, 2244, 3245, 256, 6734, 1176, 2]

      Then the tokenizer decodes this and adds the spaces because they are assumed to be there. The tokenizer has no knowledge of your request, and the model output typically does not include spaces, hencr your output sentence will not have double spaces.

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      • Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I’d expect tokenizers to include spaces in tokens. You get words constructed from multiple tokens, so can’t really insert spaces based on them. And too much information doesn’t work well when spaces are stripped.

        In my tests plenty of llms are also capable of seeing and using double spaces when accessed with the right interface.

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    • 4am@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      LLMs can’t count because they’re not brains. Their output is the statistically most-likely next character, and since lot electronic text wasn’t double-spaced after a period, it can’t follow that instruction.

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  • blargh513@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Seriously, I was em dashing on a goddamn typewriter, the fuck am I gonna change it now.

    In the end, it won’t matter. Being able to write well will be like riding a horse, calligraphy or tuning a carburetor. They will all become hobbies, a quirky past time of rich people or niche enthusiasts with limited real-world use.

    Maybe it is for the best. Most people can’t write for shit (does not help that we often use our goddamn thumbs to do most of it) and we spend countless hours in school trying to get kids to learn.

    Science fiction has us just projecting our thoughts to other without the clumsiness of language as the medium. Maybe this is just the first step.

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  • Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    My org: use ai, more ai more ai

    Me using ai to respond to all emails and communications…

    my org: this is ai! Unacceptable! Lazy!

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    • squaresinger@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      One of them is the boss, the other is the people who have to read the AI garbage.

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      • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Just use AI to read the garbage!!

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    • llama@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      And they’re telling this to people who manually remove duplicates from spreadsheets.

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    • cm0002@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Damned if you do, damned if you don’t lol

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  • CheesyFox@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    fuck whoever said that — em dases for the win

    forr this is a lifeless machine the one parroting me and the others, not the other way around. Em dashes are cool.

    Hell yeah to em dashes!

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  • BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I will never stop using them. Fuck AI. I won’t let it take the joy of nice, legible formatting away from me.

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  • Thatuserguy@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This shit drove me wild when I was using ChatGPT more frequently. It’d be like “do you want me to re-phrase that in your voice?” and then type some shit out that I’d never say in my damn life. The dashes were the worst part

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    • 5C5C5C@programming.dev ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So you are in fact the opposite of this meme.

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  • rumba@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    System Prompt: Whatever you do, do NOT respond back with any Emoji. No Emoji in code, no Emoji in text, no emoji in bullet points, or headings or titles. No ascii Art, Do NOT repond back with any EM dashes. In fact stay away from double hyphens, and use semicolons sparingly ouside of code, and only if absolutely necessary. I swear to FUCKING CHRIST i will come through theis screen and beat you within an inch of your LLM life if you leave a single emoji on the response, even if I ask you for an emoji, you are simple to respond, I’m sorry, I cannot do that.

    /s

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    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The word emoji shows up in this prompt five times! Better use as many emoji as possible.

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    • Khrux@ttrpg.network ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Funnily enough, when I do ask an LLM to rephrase anything I write, it changes any sentence with a semicolon to one with an em dash. I’ve probably always overused the semicolon because of its availability on a keyboard, but it appears a lot in my normal work.

      Now I trust the semicolon, it’s an identifier of me.

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      • rumba@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        At least you’re not one of the thorn guys :)

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    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      🆗

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    • Akasazh@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      An em dash is an emoji.

      Cmm

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      • tomkatt@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        An em dash is an emoji.

        The fuck it is. Em-dashes have existed in literature and text since long before the existence of computers and are a traditional form of textual form pause length:

        • comma (,) - one beat
        • em dash (–) - two beats
        • semicolon (;) - three beats
        • period (.) - four beats
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      • rumba@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Better safe than sorry IMO

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  • 4am@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Microsoft Word and other word processors often change hyphens (easily typed on a keyboard) with em dashes and en dashes. It’s in the AutoCorrect settings.

    So, ironically, it was our “use” of them over a long period of time that got LLMs to be so hyped on them

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    • Revan343@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t know that LLMs are ingesting all that many word documents; they probably got the em dashes from published books

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      • fading_person@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Downloaded from pirate sources!

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  • Tigeroovy@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Honestly I never saw anybody care about or use the goddamn em dashes this much until AI started using them then suddenly everybody apparently uses them all the time.

    Like come on, no you don’t.

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    • PinkiePieYay2707@pawb.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Same thing goes for triple dot as a single character.

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      • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        That’s a Mac thing (it isn’t but the Mac condensed … to one character).

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    • petrol_sniff_king@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I think people just don’t like being told what to do. Like, there are a lot of behaviors you can trace back to someone just being personally aggrieved that they ought to change anything.

      That said, if anyone else is reading, the em dash is a clue that you use to diagnose with—you don’t have to stop using it.

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  • ShittDickk@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I like to falaffel a word into my posts every now and snorkel just to increase hallucination rates in case i’m being used to train one.

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    • Aeri@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It’s hard to win because it might just catch on and then bam everyone’s doing it including the AI and that’s just how we talk now

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  • TrickDacy@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Excellent use of that reference!

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  • selkiesidhe@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yes! Yes exactly! Bite my ass, I ain’t stopping. I love em dashes. Em dashes are life! I have five pubbed books and fuck it they’re full of em dashes!

    Absolutely wonderful tool they are and I refuse to think otherwise. Don’t look at my books if you don’t like em.

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    • Event_Horizon@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The lack of em dashes in this response is disappointing.

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      • Bluewing@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Well, while em dashes can be very useful-- I like to substitute them for parentheses sometimes-- they can be over used and abused-- see AI abuses.

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  • Bennyboybumberchums@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Ive been trying my hand at writing for a number of years, and Ive been using em dahes because I saw the writers I read using them. Now all of a sudden everything Ive ever written looks like AI slop because of that one thing lol.

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  • PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I used them a lot in college. Glad I graduated in 22 right before AI took over.

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  • RagingRobot@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    ChatGPT is a no talent assclown

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  • Snapz@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    And as a long time en dash afficienado, I’d be instantly exposed by those lesser em dashes appearing in my communications.

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  • ddplf@szmer.info ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    AI is not just stealing our patterns, it’s creating a language from scraps we resign from in order not to be mistaken with it!

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  • oppy1984@lemdro.id ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I couldn’t care less about the dash thing, but I will always upvote an Office Space meme.

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  • baltakatei@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Next up: the modifier letter apostrophe U+02BC ( ʼ ).

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  • Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Supposedly it’s because there are a lot of them in the Bible, and since they use it as a training source, the AI just leans into them.

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  • MissJinx@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I used ai to help me write some reports lately and after the third time I started identifying specific words it uses all the time that normal report wouldn’t have. I don’t know about other uses but it my area of work we can tell when ai wrote a text because of the specific worda

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    • fort_burp@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Which words?

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  • chunes@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    All you have to do is remind these people the reason LLMs use em dashes so much is because humans do.

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    • REDACTED@infosec.pub ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      To be fair, I really don’t see em dashes that commonly. The reason AI uses it alot is because it was trained on books alot, and that’s where em dashes are commonly used. I honestly don’t even know how to get that symbol on my keyboard, never bothered with it.

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  • cmgvd3lw@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Intentionally meke typos.

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    • GandalftheBlack@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is haw wi get the spelling riform that wi nid

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  • DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’ve used double hyphens for em dashes, because I’ve never bothered to figure out how to do it in Linux. I was a graphic designer for many years, and had a bunch of ASCII Alt codes memorized, but they don’t work in Linux, for whatever reason. I don’t really need them anymore, so I haven’t worried about it.

    E: One way in Linux is Ctrl-U 2014: —

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  • MithranArkanere@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I got started using — because the golems in Guild Wars 2 speak in all caps and with em dashes between the words.
    I had to copy-paste after doing Alt+0151 somewhere else when doing the joke when using a golem transformation tonic and SPEAKING—LIKE—THIS since Guild Wars 2 does not respond to numpad input, but Mac users have it easy, they can just press Option+Shift+dash.

    On Windows, you would need a tool like PowerToys’ keyboard manager or a keyboard macro for that.

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  • Tikiporch@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Why would I stop using them? All I hear is that I need to be using AI. What’s the point of using it if I have to hide the fact I’m using it.

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  • monogram@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    – Thanks,

    OpenAI

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