Posting for the "Now guys he was MURDERED! Don't celebrate!" Crowd
I keep reading people complaining about how people are taking these quotes out of context.
So went to the source, and I see them in context.
They are actually worse in context.
Submitted 6 months ago by cm0002@piefed.world to [deleted]
https://media.piefed.world/posts/UW/ei/UWei8qk6tzjfdqa.jpg
Comments
MithranArkanere@lemmy.world 6 months ago
SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Here’s the source
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 6 months ago
I keep seeing this photo of Charlie Kirk and I keep thinking “There’s no way that’s Charlie Kirk”.
Stalinwolf@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 6 months ago
Hey! It’s Charlie Kirk!
skisnow@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I thought there were no good Nazis, but he just proved me wrong.
A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 6 months ago
Oscar Schindler.
Cattail@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I can’t help to think Kirk was being insincere and pandering in this quote. He was just responding to what Clinton was saying
MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world 6 months ago
My dad was team horse de-wormer back in covid. Don’t talk to him much.
Mom now says the he was a christian and he did everything right.
Guess sometimes parents can suck too
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Is water a horse thirst quencher?
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 6 months ago
trump is honoring him with a military procession, to distract from epstein. people said he was killed over, because he was pining for epstein files to be released.
Sunflier@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’ll sleep ever so slightly better now.
Katrisia@lemmy.today 6 months ago
He had shitty opinions, we know. I won’t follow them. I will have empathy and I will not celebrate his death. Still, I think the world’s population improved with one less hateful person around.
notarobot@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
You can celebrate his death without celebration his murder. I’m not from the us so what I think doesn’t matter, but I think both things can be true “good thing he is dead, his killer should get proper punishment, if everyone takes justice into their own hands we lose every semblance of a functional society”
jj4211@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I will have empathy
How dare you dishonor his memory.
RonniePickering@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Facts
NIB@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The more we normalize assassinations, the worse the world becomes. America is slightly more fucked today.
Zink@programming.dev 6 months ago
He had shitty opinions
I think we should stop saying this.
He was killed for his actions, not his opinions. His members are the ones who kill for opinions.
Discussing his personal opinions feels like a bit of a republican both sidesing talking point, honestly. It was the same with talk radio hosts decades ago. People would argue whether Limbaugh or Hannity really believe all the BS or if they just do it for ratings.
I only remember caring about that distinction when I was still immersed in the conservatism I was born into.
passwordforgetter@lemmy.nz 6 months ago
What would you say if someone on the left was killed as revenge?
jnod4@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7717mk1gk6o.amp
They have a time machine
shininghero@pawb.social 6 months ago
I’d also add the argument of, “Don’t stare into the abyss, lest we become the monsters we’re denouncing.”
Geodad@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I had someone try to tell me I was stooping to his level with my dark humor memes.
I told them, I can’t do that because I’m not 6ft under.
kilgore_trout@feddit.it 6 months ago
It’s unlikely that he has been buried yet. Inaccurate joke.
pixeltree@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Ah yes, that’s very important
Triasha@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Back during Trump’s first term I would hear people saying “this country is going to fall into civil war” and I told my friends “we are nowhere near a civil war.” Because the conditions were not there. It takes a huge buildup to move people to organized violence. You have to have thousands and in the US case millions or at least 100s of thousands of people willing to kill and die for a cause and we didn’t have that, and still don’t.
But the pandemic came and we saw half the country couldn’t be bothered to wear a mask or get a vaccine to protect their neighbors and the other half saw that outpouring of collective psychopathy and realized that their neighbors were willing to risk their lives and the lives of their family and community to “own the libs” and we moved a step closer.
But you can’t have a civil war like the 1800’s today, there aren’t bright geographical lines of loyalty. I predicted in the Biden administration that we would see a period of rising violence scattered across the country, like bleeding Kansas, but spread all over.
And that is exactly what we are seeing.
We still aren’t at the point where we could fall into civil war, but we are closer every year. Trump is doing his damndest to create the conditions.
I pray we never get that far. Civil wars are the worst short of full on genocide, and they make the big G a whole lot more likely.
puppinstuff@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
[deleted]Triasha@lemmy.world 6 months ago
And if wishes were fishes there would be no room in the ocean for water.
You aren’t wrong, but “could” is doing some heavy lifting.
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Here’s the frustration and why this should not be celebrated:
Charlie Kirk spent years dehumanizing people, making lives measurably worse, and profiting from hatred. The cosmic irony of him being shot while calling trans people dangerous and minimizing gun violence feels like the universe delivering a punchline he wrote himself. There’s a cathartic release in seeing someone who seemed untouchable suddenly silenced by the very violence he dismissed.
But that catharsis is blinding, vile, and destructive. Every celebration post, every “rest in piss” meme, every “fucked around and found out” joke is already being screenshot and weaponized. The worst people imaginable, those eager to exploit violence, are being handed exactly what they want: supposed proof that “they were right,” justification for crackdowns, and, most dangerously, a martyr whose blood sanctifies every awful thing he stood for.
Celebration may feel like a dunk on fascism, but in reality it accelerates it. It may feel like strength, but it exposes a movement so strategically bankrupt that it mistakes emotional satisfaction for political victory. Kirk alive was one influencer among many; Kirk dead is a rallying cry that will outlive us all.
The rage at what he represented is justified. But celebrating his death guarantees those very ideas will flourish. American democracy is dying, and a gravedigger falling into the hole is no victory when it only deepens the grave.
His ideas needed to be defeated. Instead, they’ve been immortalized.
mere@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Omg thanks for this. Far too many people are jumping on the ‘celebrate his death because he was an awful person’ bandwagon. No, the best thing the left can do at the moment is just to have as little reaction as possible. The right was already attacking us and every ‘lmao kirk died, rest in piss bozo’ comment and post just gives them more ammunition. It’s not fair, but at the moment they have the power and we do not. We need to demonstrate to the masses that we are the better people, because that’s how we’re going to get mass support and that’s how we’re going to get the right-wing fascists in power voted out.
neobunch@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I appreciate your level-headedness, and I definitely get where you’re coming from, but I need to point out the big gaping blindspot in your argument: the crackdowns and the facism are already here, and they’ve pretty much demonstrated they don’t particularly care for or wait for justification. Do you see why arguing “you’re giving them ammo and justification” rings very hollow at this particular point in time?
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yup. I totally understand why it rings hollow and why feels good that a nazi died.
authoritarianism isn’t waiting for permission. But there’s a difference between “they don’t need justification” and “justification doesn’t matter.” Yes, Trump was always going to crack down on dissent. But Kirk’s assassination transforms that from “Trump’s authoritarian overreach” into “necessary response to political violence.” It shifts the narrative from aggression to self-defense. Did Goebbels need Wessel after his death in 1930? No, but it sure as shit worked to mobilize the base.
My point is that we, the true patriots upholding actual freedom, lose here. We all lose here and its frustrating that so many people are caught up in the cosmic justice that they can’t see that this is EXACTLY what they want.
jj4211@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah, worried about this and the punishment doesn’t fit the crime, and too much room for his death to be weaponized, like you say.
Would have much rather him taken a few to the vest from a handgun from a pissed off obviously MAGA person. Give him some pain and a good scare to have him realize personally just how risky the hornet’s nest is that he is stirring. Something that might be a close enough call for others to see without becoming a rallying cry and a clear link to the violence of the rhetoric without a chance to blame ‘the other’.
Gloomy@mander.xyz 6 months ago
I am happy to read at least one sane voice amongst the sea of people who don’t understand that we are doing exactly what they are accusing us of doing by celebrating his death. I honestly am taken aback by the amount of people who think this is good.
morphballganon@mtgzone.com 6 months ago
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Ohhh! I love Starship Troopers! The book, not so much, but the movie I adore.
Let’s dig into your choice to respond with this scene.
That’s the moment where Verhoeven shows us ‘Federation Victory’! The good guys have won! They’ve captured the Brain Bug! It’s afraid! Humanity wins!
Except what’s actually happening is fascists celebrating the torture of a sentient being. One that extracted human minds just as they’ll now extract from its mind; each side justifying their horrors by pointing to the other’s. All while convincing themselves they’re heroes.
The Federation doesn’t attempt communication or diplomacy. They literally probe its brain for intel while cheering its terror. The troops cheering ‘It’s afraid!’ aren’t the good guys. They’re Verhoeven’s mirror showing us how righteousness becomes the very tyranny it claims to fight.
NPH’s character literally becomes a full SS-uniformed intelligence officer who feeds his best friends into an endless meat grinder. The bugs were defending their home. The Federation manufactured its own eternal enemy. And everyone cheering becomes complicit in forever war.
You’ve sent me a scene about people so drunk on their enemy’s fear that they can’t see they’ve become the monsters.
So either you’re agreeing that celebrating suffering makes us indistinguishable from what we oppose, or you’ve accidentally proven my point by quoting the villains as heroes.
Either way, I couldn’t have picked a better metaphor myself.
Rekorse@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Cool story bro.
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Your “cool story bro” response is exactly the kind of thinking that creates space for demagogues to thrive. When someone offers strategic analysis about why celebrating political violence backfires, and you respond with a thought-terminating cliché, you’re demonstrating the same anti-intellectual reflex that makes populations vulnerable to manipulation.
Think about what made Charlie Kirk successful: he offered simple, emotionally satisfying answers to complex problems. “Your problems aren’t from complicated economic systems, it’s those people over there.” His audience loved him because he never asked them to think harder than a bumper sticker.
And here you are, faced with someone explaining why emotional satisfaction isn’t political victory, why martyrdom empowers the very ideas we need to defeat… and your response is a meme. You’re operating at exactly the level of discourse that Kirk counted on: where snark replaces strategy, where being dismissive feels like being strong, where “cool story bro” seems like a clever response to warnings about tactical disaster.
The movements that win understand complexity. The movements that lose mistake attitude for analysis. When you brush off strategic thinking with internet catchphrases, you’re not fighting against the Charlie Kirks of the world. You’re proving that their reduction of politics to tribal reflexes and emotional reactions was right all along.
The system that produces Charlie Kirks depends on people refusing to think beyond the satisfaction of the dunk, the own, the sick burn. Your dismissal isn’t rebellion; it’s compliance with the exact intellectual laziness that powerful interests count on to keep populations manageable and movements ineffective.
alecbowles@feddit.uk 6 months ago
Thank you for that. Even though he died, he has won. Look at the amount of hatred he has nourished. Furthermore, I don’t believe his death will bring any justice to the people he impacted with his hatred. While I see people celebrating, I’m terrified.
Terrified this is how things are at the moment. If you can celebrate the death of Charlie, it means you have it in you to celebrate anyone’s else given a motive. And I think that is The first step of the dehumanisation process he so fondly used.
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You’ve identified something crucial that others miss: we don’t defeat dehumanization by becoming better at it. The moment we celebrate death, we’ve accepted their fundamental premise that political disagreement justifies violence.
Your terror is appropriate and I feel it with you. Not just at the violence itself, but at watching people you agree with politically abandon the very principles that distinguish us from what we oppose. The hardest battle isn’t against fascism; it’s maintaining our humanity while fighting inhumanity.
seejur@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I take a little solace from the fact that win or not, he will not be here to see it through
SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social 6 months ago
They were gonna do it, anyway. They were just waiting for an excuse. Any excuse. In a world as big and complex as ours, probability would have provided them with some pretext sooner or later. As we can see, they don’t know anything about the shooter, or his ideology. It’s just an excuse. If the world didn’t provide them one, they’d manufacture it. Walking around on eggshells and trying to avoid giving them one was never tenable.
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You’re right that they manufacture pretexts, but there’s a crucial difference between forced fabrications and genuine ammunition. When they have to invent threats, their propaganda requires constant maintenance and reality-bending. When we hand them actual violence to point to, we transform their lies into prophecies. Yes, probability ensures incidents will occur, but the question is whether we contribute to that probability or work against it. “They’ll do it anyway” becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy that absolves us of strategic thinking. I say, let us not make the Fascist’s job easier.
ZMonster@lemmy.world 6 months ago
But that catharsis is blinding, vile, and destructive.
My friend, you’ve got the right stuff. You have a very smooth and relatable style of communication and I really do value when those like you say something that I espouse and would otherwise butcher.
I won’t tell people not to celebrate because I know how disliked that sort of sentiment is on a thread like this. But you’re absolutely right and it sucks. They know that they just hit the “not crying wolf” lottery and will never stop banging that drum.
I’m frightened for whom the bell tolls.
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com 6 months ago
That ‘right stuff’ didn’t work in the 1940s, what makes you think it would work in '25? Do you know what did work in the '40s?
HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.
He wasn’t just a racist he was a fucking Nazi.
Bamboodpanda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I get the impulse, truly. He spread hate and did real harm, and the anger at that is justified. But celebrating his death doesn’t hurt his cause, it builds it. The right has shown us the playbook: when left-wing leaders are killed, they shrug it off, Trump even said it ‘doesn’t matter.’ Yet with Kirk, before there’s even a suspect, they’re already framing it as the start of the left’s downfall. When we celebrate, we feed that narrative. We give the Nazis exactly what they want. The real strength is being better than them, and making sure their ideas lose.
minorkeys@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Did he actually say that? That literally what genuine psychopaths say.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I had to look it up. The full context is:
So the new communications strategy for Democrats, now that their polling advantage is collapsing in every single state… collapsing in Ohio. It’s collapsing even in Arizona. It is now a race where Blake Masters is in striking distance. Kari Lake is doing very, very well. The new communications strategy is not to do what Bill Clinton used to do, where he would say, “I feel your pain.” Instead, it is to say, “You’re actually not in pain.” So let’s just, little, very short clip. Bill Clinton in the 1990s. It was all about empathy and sympathy. I can’t stand the word empathy, actually. I think empathy is a made-up, new age term that — it does a lot of damage. But, it is very effective when it comes to politics. Sympathy, I prefer more than empathy. That’s a separate topic for a different time.
Later on Twitter:
The same people who lecture you about ‘empathy’ have none for the soldiers discharged for the jab, the children mutilated by Big Medicine, or the lives devastated by fentanyl pouring over the border. Spare me your fake outrage, your fake science, and your fake moral superiority.
www.snopes.com/…/charlie-kirk-empathy-quote/
It’s not as bad as the out-of-context quote, but it’s still pretty bad.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
didn’t elon musk also say something along the lines? “empathy is a weakness and our demise” or sth like that …
saimen@feddit.org 6 months ago
And then there was this guy who was part of the Nuremberg trials or interviewed a lot of Nazis and tried to figure out what they all have in common, guess what: lack of empathy
grrgyle@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
I’m sensing a pattern.
No but seriously, the psychopathic allure of leadership (Forbes, sry just the first link I found) is leading to civilization scale decisions which are 1) out of sync with what a reasonable person wants, 2) counter to general human flourishing.
Tech leadership wants us to worry about potential ethical “alignment issues” with a theoretical AGI, but we’re already in crisis if those leading us don’t share our basic human values.
PS. I’m not trying to say psychopaths nonghuman. They’re the same species and probably as conscious as I am. I just don’t think they’re an apt choice to decide matters for humans who do have empathy. Imagine a chef with no sense of taste running a restaurant kind of deal.
cm0002@piefed.world 6 months ago
Yes, snopes link: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/charlie-kirk-empathy-quote/
minorkeys@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah he was a straight up psychopath. Preferring sympathy means pitying the fate of others but not feeling their experience. Psychopaths generally see themselves a superior to others and pitying people for not being as awesome as they are, while also being confused about the experience of empathizing is exactly what a psychopath does.
Mniot@programming.dev 6 months ago
The people cheering are just honoring Charlie’s legacy.
bunchberry@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I have seen so many right wingers post something along the lines of “leftists are so psychotic for being happy he was killed, we should kill all leftists in response!”
Leonardo_da_Vinci@lemmy.world 6 months ago
So you agree with Kirk?
wabasso@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I keep thinking about this angle. Maybe it’s a case of a double standard being ok? Like if some group of people are like “Don’t worry about me, I don’t need any empathy” and others say, “I hope you will show me empathy” then I don’t see why a single standard has to be applied.
Not sure if you agree with this analogy but for example as a male, I don’t mind if a woman says something to me that might be considered intimidating if the roles were reversed. Sure, I need to be mindful of whether she might cause harm to someone who isn’t me, but again, I don’t need to apply a single universal approach to myself if I know in my heart it’s not necessary.
Anyway, maybe the stronger rebuttal is “That’s not what he meant”.
bunchberry@lemmy.world 6 months ago
A double-standard is not inherently a bad thing. It’s a double-standard that we allow trained and licensed medical doctors to do operations on people but not bozos without any medical background, but one would have to be an imbecile to say this double-standard is a bad thing. It is indeed a double-standard to not show empathy to people who support industrial scale genocide to themselves be merked while believing we should show empathy to the victims and to people who do not advocate for such things when they die, but it is a good double-standard. It’s completely ridiculous to think we should be applying a single universal standard to everyone because people are not all the same.
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
God works in mysterious ways.
callouscomic@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Comical to me how many people in some many posts just HAVE to go out of their way to note they aren’t celebrating or some blah blah about any human dying.
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Voluntary censorship; this is the world we live in now.
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Because Humans in this day and age are little more than Livestock for the Billionaires. Well except those in Nepal for the moment, for the moment they have slipped their chains. Hope they can keep them off.
Geldaran@lemmy.world 6 months ago
They want pity and/or retribution for him for him, then there’s a list he needs to get on. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melissa_Hortman
HalfSalesman@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I don’t give a shit about Charlie Kirk, rest in piss, but my celebration is mildly stunted by the fact that this is a dangerous thing to normalize and this is a massive notch in that direction given how huge of a public figure he was and the nature of his assassination being so public.
Of course, the right is largely responsible for that normalization, and Charlie Kirk’s death is actually on people like Charlie Kirk’s very hands. However, for me its just the consequences and the dark future that this seems to push us further into.
Hopefully the right fails to capitalize on his death effectively and we move onto largely forgetting about the piece of shit.
Wilco@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
We have a MAGA dictatorship with a corrupt government being led by a literal sex offender, felon, and pedophile. This guy getting shot wasn’t murder, it was a heroic attack made in self defense of our nation.
HalfSalesman@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Our nation has failed itself by letting Trump fucking win.
This assassination just makes it more likely I get dragged into violent civil conflict. One that could have been avoided had every anti-trump individual had fucking voted against him winning and they didn’t.
Kirk was a piece of shit but I wont be the accelerationist’s pawn. This all could have been avoided and I deeply resent that it wasn’t.
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Exactly where I’m at. I just hope the next one takes someone actually important., and useful to Project 2025. Fascism isn’t defeated with words, it’s defeated one bullet at a time. When Fascists are afraid, then we will have Liberty again.
CircaV@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Exactly who could have one iota of care for a shitstain who made a living spewing this type of hateful screed. Rest in Piss indeed.
SuspiciousCatThing@pawb.social 6 months ago
Is that a speech of his or just his opinions?
Bosht@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Your last sentence is what I’ve been worried about as well. We all know Trump is a blathering idiot, but he’s chomping at the bit to use military powers on US soil, and so far has been with no real reason. He could very easily use this as an excuse to further deploy troops and/or push more of his fascist agenda.
ViceroTempus@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Didn’t he already deploy to Chicago? What excuse is needed when he’s already doing so? I don’t understand how everybody who portrays your sentiment is so daft/ignorant to what’s already going on.
MBech@feddit.dk 6 months ago
He doesn’t need an excuse though. He’s going to do it no matter what happens. There is absolutely no hope he won’t, just because you don’t make a fuzz about it. It’s not like he’s just now thinking: “well now they’ve done it! They’ve gotten violent! I gotta make concentration camps, and use military personel and weapons to quell their protests, and maybe even attack the whole democratic process!”. He’s already doing it.
elbiter@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m not celebrating, it’s just a routine champagne toast. I do it every time a fascist dies of unnatural causes.
MangioneDontMiss@feddit.nl 6 months ago
good riddance.
lukaro@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
I’m not going to celebrate, I simply don’t care that karma struck him so hard.
tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 6 months ago
No empathy for this scum <3
AnitaAmandaHuginskis@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Not wearing a helmet, bullet-proof vest and all and arguing against gun control.
He was asking to be shot…
/s obvsly ffs
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 6 months ago
I remember every single time someone they didn’t like died. They would rejoice in the most vile manner imaginable. Fuck them.
I am betting that Kirk’s killer was a fellow conservative who found him too soft and not hard right enough.
Or… maybe it was the same guy who killed Brian Thompson… because Luigi is innocent.
Valmond@lemmy.world 6 months ago
“Unalived”
Right?
red_bull_of_juarez@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
I firmly believe that there are people who make the world better by dying.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
I wonder if we will get a new wave of users as reddit has another ban wave for people laughing at this cunts neck exploding.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
Ding ding the witch is dead? It’s hardly unusual to celebrate deaths of some public figures. Especially ones that are disliked by large numbers of people.