Your anti-cheat doesn’t work anyway so let me play in linux you cowards.
Battlefield 6 cheats day 1 of early access. Depite kernel level anti cheat, forced secure boot TPM 2.0
Submitted 1 day ago by sirico@feddit.uk to games@lemmy.world
Comments
lorty@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I am still baffled that anyone thinks that Kernel AC is any kind of effective at stopping hacks, people have been literally making a living off of defeating it, and selling those hacks, for almost a decade now…
But nope, still got hordes of idiot gamers who think they work, think they’re necessary, think they can’t be spoofed.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
It’s crazy to me that people cheat in online games. You really have to be a huge fucking loser to do this.
Small pp energy.
burgerpocalyse@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
i dont know if you know this, but generally the people buying and playing games arent the ones making the decisions about anticheat
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 hours ago
Not sure how you could read this and come away with the idea that I do believe that…
I am talking about the subset of gamers that go on internet forums and discord servers and make false, unsupported claims, argue that Kernel AC is necessary, tell people this just is how it is now, get with the program,
eat the bugs, play the spyware game, its fine, everyone is doing it.Burninator05@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Indirectly buyers are making a decision on anticheat. If someone buys a game with anticheat, they’ve made the decision to reward the developer for making the decision to include anticheat.
ChaosSpectre@lemmy.zip 5 hours ago
More proof that anti-cheat and bans just isn’t a working approach.
Almost every cheater I’ve talked to or seen interviewed has said they do it because they like winning. If thats the case, pushing them away isnt getting rid of them, its making them try to win harder, and they are literally spending money to make that happen.
This means, there is a market for cheaters, one that publishers and devs simply assault instead of realizing they could replace it entirely.
Create a marketplace in your game for cheats. When a player buys a cheat in game, they can turn it on but only in a specific playlist that cheaters get to play in. You dont need to own or turn on cheats to play in that playlist, in case you feel like challenging yourself, but cheaters can use them as much as they want in that playlist. If a cheater wants to go into cheat free playlist, their cheats get turned off by the game and they have to play like everyone else. Cheat free playlists can have cheat detection, and if you are caught cheating then you get banned from cheat free playlists permanently, but you arent banned from the game or the cheat playlist.
This deters cheaters from paying third parties for cheats, gives them a space to experiment in, makes money for the company running the game, and reduces the amount of cheaters in regular public lobbies. It also creates a space of challenge for people who don’t cheat, sorta like how people will do no death runs in souls games.
Sure, it isnt a perfect solution, but its far better than punishing every player with invasive tech, while simultaneously letting a market of cheat sellers thrive. For a bunch of capitalists, its wild they haven’t realized they are missing out on money with cheats.
AdrianTheFrog@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
I suspect that if you’re now playing where everyone else gets the same advantages, that ruins the fun of having cheats
If not and the cheats themselves are just that fun to use, sure, add it in as another gamemode
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I love the Battlefield series but I’m not turning on Secure Boot for them. If it remains a hard requirement, I’ll simply be passing altogether.
Katana314@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I was able to get around secure boot by installing the beta on my PS5. From then, I had the pleasure of being unable to enter due to broken menus! Can’t complain for having spent nothing and having little trust in the franchise.
PHLAK@lemmy.world 1 day ago
There’s nothing wrong with Secure Boot and enabling it can prevent a small subset of attack vectors with no real downsides. That being said, the things Secure Boot does protect against aren’t likely to be an issue for most users but it’s nothing to be afraid of.
pathief@lemmy.world 1 day ago
If you want to install Linux, secure boot limits the distributions you can use. If you don’t then it’s whatever.
umbrella@lemmy.ml 7 hours ago
at this point i just wanna cheat the hell out of these crappy games out of spite.
MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
brezel@piefed.social 1 day ago
beautiful. fuck secureboot.
9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Why?
brezel@piefed.social 1 day ago
- some people run more than 1 OS
- some people actually program and need to load unsigned shit all the time
- some people have legacy hardware that doesn't run with secureboot
- it is my decision and my decision alone how i boot my operating systems. not EA's.
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Needlessly intrusive. Can obviously be circumvented by cheaters anyway, so quite possibly superfluous. Apart from that it protects against the kinds of attacks that typically require physical access to the computer. If you have physical access you have full access anyway. Etc.
SoupBrick@pawb.social 1 day ago
It fucks with Linux. I literally just disabled it to resolve a driver install issue before this announcement was made.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 13 hours ago
Why are people like this.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Honestly, if I had the skills I’d be doing that as an explicit fuck you to the draconian anticheat bullshit they force on everyone, because what better fuck you than showing all that effort was for naught, especially close to launch.
EA can go fuck themselves with the world’s biggest cactus.
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
I prefer “fuck you with an anchor”
lorty@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
A lot of hacking in valorant is about this tbf (and to more efficiently sell boosts)
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
It’s fun to cheat in games, that’s why we have cheat codes.
Also there’s the competitive side of it where not getting caught is a skill and glitching is just game knowledge.
tiramichu@sh.itjust.works 11 hours ago
For some people the only things that brings them joy are 1) winning 2) making other people stuffer
RepleteLocum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 hours ago
Or developing cheats. It sounds really fun and you get to grow by keeping on top of the anticheat.
shiroininja@lemmy.world 1 day ago
So I can’t play battlefield without TPM? I hate tech these days. My Ryzen board doesnt have it. Hence why I’m not on windows 11
JigglySackles@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I just refuse to enable it. It makes changing things a hassle.
Psythik@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Same. Keeps things simple with Linux and, Windows doesn’t even complain about it being disabled, so long as it’s present. I’ll never understand this requirement.
Jaded99@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
You can still get win 11 without TPM by using Rufus and bypassing TPM which will have to be done for a lot of old PCs and we will have to do it by October this year.
mushroomman_toad@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 hours ago
Why would you install Windows 11on a computer? What happens if you don’t do it before October?
ChairmanMeow@programming.dev 12 hours ago
Didn’t Microsoft stop this in a recent-ish update? I remember trying it on a machine without TPM and it just didn’t work.
Bazzite worked fine though (after some headaches setting it up).
b000rg@midwest.social 13 hours ago
Does this disable updates though? My wife somehow had Win11 installed on her pc without enabling secure boot, and her updates got so far behind that now it refuses to update and needs to be reinstalled.
end_stage_ligma@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
you will own nothing and be happy
renrenPDX@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I only found out about this today from someone whose computer got bricked from trying to enable secure boot.
Narwhalrus@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
My machine went into a boot loop and I had to clear CMOS to boot again.
I wonder how many people without the resources to fix a problem like that easily are going to end up without computers for an extended period of time because of this.
PushButton@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
So you got the spyware without the benefits, that’s a hell of a surprise isn’t it?
But thank you for your money suckers!
mugita_sokiovt@discuss.online 23 hours ago
I’m glad I didn’t enable Tivoization (Secure Boot) and TPM. Those suck, and actually froze our machines. It’s literally useless at this point.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 13 hours ago
Secure Boot isn’t Tivoization because you can enroll your own keys.
mugita_sokiovt@discuss.online 8 hours ago
From my research, while I could see that being the case, “Secure Boot” is classified by the Free Software Foundation and the GNU Project as Tivoization, and GPL-3 was made to fix that. That’s how I saw it, at least.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Pretty much the same as all the other BFs. They all had cheats in the Beta/early release versions. I’ve played and own literally every BF game since the original release of 1942. Cheats have always been present more or less.
poolhelmetinstrument@lemmy.world 1 day ago
This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Yep.
Things were better when private servers had actual mods and admins, they acted more like pubs where you could go see the regulars, actually form a community.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
DayZ, Rust, and Minecraft were the model all along. Nice that it’s vindicated.
msage@programming.dev 6 hours ago
CS 1.6
DoucheBagMcSwag@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 hours ago
I won’t buy BF6 if it doesn’t have a server browser
ohshit604@sh.itjust.works 22 hours ago
This is where we need dedicated servers and self moderation
My knowledge towards battlefield games ends at BF5 but I’m pretty sure people pay to host custom servers, EA refuses to open source it and only supply a handful of third parties with the actual code.
I’m sure there is an NDA involved.
ThunderComplex@lemmy.today 9 hours ago
northendtrooper@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Having Anti-Cheat of any kind outside of the game is laziness or lack of resources.
I believe just have physical limitations of the character or objects and verify the movement every once in a while to make sure that their movement is not super human (ie, aim bots).
You don’t need a kernal level anti-cheat.
warm@kbin.earth 1 day ago
Back when Battlefield was Battlefield, it would self-regulate because most people played on self-hosted servers, so cheaters and bad actors were taken care of swiftly. But now they want their own control to put shitty bots and SBMM in the game, so here we are.
Miaou@jlai.lu 13 hours ago
I don’t think the devs have much to do with these decisions
theunknownmuncher@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Kernel anti-cheat does absolutely nothing to prevent aimbots/triggerbots, as most are run using 2 separate machines, anyway. The first machine runs the game in a totally clean and legitimate environment, but sends its video output (either using standard streaming tools like OBS or by using special hardware) to the 2nd machine. The 2nd machine runs the cheat and processes the video to detect where to aim and/or when to shoot, and sends mouse input back to the 1st machine.
C4551E@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
I would have thought this would introduce enough latency to make an aimbot ineffective, but I know nothing about the cheating scene
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
And they should just make good games too, right?
The issue with “just analyze the players” is that it is VERY expensive computationally. And it causes issues with non-official servers as it drastically increases the cost of a dedicated server and makes a listen server nigh unusable.
To be clear: I do not think the kernel level anti-cheats are a consumer friendly solution. But it takes a special kind of arrogance to insist you know better than decades worth of research and work in trying to stop hacking.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Yeah I mean its not like Valve has been using a combination of server side and client side game file only validation to do AC for Counter Strike for 20 years or anything.
Yep yep yep, the whole industry uses Kernel AC, other than the devs of the longest running comoetetive FPS genre ever, yep yep yep!
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It takes more work and resources to do what they’re doing. They already do server side anti cheat. And realistically, this is more effective than not doing it, though it definitely still gets defeated anyway. I would say the things that it asks of the customer are not worth the trade even if they were 100% effective, but they are more effective.
sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I offer:
0.2% more effective detection of cheaters (theoretical)
You offer:
Full and total access to every single file on your computer, all of its hardware, and all connected devices, via kernel level access.
Do you accept?
count_dongulus@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Wall hacks could be defeated by the server only reporting the positional information about enemy players to game clients when it detects that the client player’s camera should be able to see some part of the other player’s silhouette. This is possible, albeit computationally expensive, but the main functional issue is latency. Nobody wants enemies magically popping into view when their view changes quickly because their ping was more than 6ms lol
frongt@lemmy.zip 1 day ago
That doesn’t cover wallhacks.
blindbunny@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
They’re gonna kill this game aren’t they.
Truscape@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
It’s already dead mate. Hop on the finals, we got linux support.
Oisteink@feddit.nl 1 day ago
Nah. Everyone wants tpm 2.0 Ask Microsoft
warm@kbin.earth 1 day ago
Game is generic enough, so it'll keep a playerbase.
ampersandrew@lemmy.world 1 day ago
There aren’t exactly a wealth of games doing what Battlefield does outside of Battlefield itself.
poolhelmetinstrument@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I have a feeling they are
FreddyNO@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Shame was really looking forward to bf6. Guess I’ll pass
CtrlAltDyeet@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 hours ago
And yet they have the audacity to block Linux players
Jaded99@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Only AI will be able to root this out in future
massi1008@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
That’s an (obviously) unpopular opinion around here but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt: How would AI be able to do that?
Stovetop@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I am not sure what the user above is thinking, but to play devil’s advocate:
One thing that modern AI does well is pattern recognition. An AI trained on player behavior, from beginner level all the way up to professional play, would be able to acquire a thorough understanding of what human performance looks like (which is something that games have been developing for a long time now, to try to have bots more accurately simulate player behavior).
I remember someone setting up their own litmus test using cheats in Tarkov where their main goal was just to observe the patterns of other players who are cheating. There are a lot of tells, a big one being reacting to other players who are obscured by walls. Another one could be the way in which aimbots immediately snap and lock on to headshots.
It could be possible to implement a system designed to flag players whose behavior is seen as too unlike normal humans, maybe cross-referencing with other metadata (account age/region/sudden performance anomalies/etc) to make a more educated determination about whether or not someone is likely cheating, without having to go into kernel-level spying or other privacy-invasive methods.
But then…this method runs the risk of eventually being outmatched by the model facilitating it: an AI trained on professional human behavior that can accurately simulate human input and behave like a high performing player, without requiring the same tools a human needs to cheat.
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 hours ago
CSGO used to have Overwatch which is an anti cheat system that uses trusted and experienced players to go through video footage of reported players. With this method I both reported blatant spinbotters, wall hacking, and other chears. I also was on the side of watching back footage of hacking players.
Say AI trains on this data, it might work.
I’m not a fan of this though because knowledgeable and experienced players will be better than AI.
sunred@discuss.tchncs.de 12 hours ago
What actually exists but what I have yet to see implemented in any game I play are those server-side “AI anti-cheat” solutions like from anybrain that basically just analyse the players behavior to fit certain criteria. According to areweanticheatyet.com though there are four games using it already (the most well-known one probably being Lost Ark). In theory ai models can be very efficient and accurate at this (we are not talking about transformer models here like with the current llm craze) but that all depends on how they train a model and what the training data looks like.
bluesheep@sh.itjust.works 13 hours ago
Don’t waste your time, they’re either an hardcore AI bootlicker or a shit stirrer - most likely both, looking at their post history.
Furbag@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Keep that AI horseshit out of video games, thanks.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 1 day ago
secure boot required
Wow. Might be the first BF game I pass on even if they eventually give it away for free.
y0kai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 hours ago
Oh no! Ch43t3Rzzzz!
cadekat@pawb.social 1 day ago
Can’t you load your own keys into your BIOS, letting you sign whatever you want anyway?
Defaced@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Anyone with half a brain could see this coming from a mile away. My conspiracy brain almost thinks this is some concerted and calculated effort by Microsoft to artificially lock games to Windows through anti cheat. It’s disgusting, isn’t needed, and just plain isn’t effective. They can spew all the metrics out of their ass, we all know that it’s just not effective.
wizzim@infosec.pub 7 hours ago
I am not sure about this conspiracy theory of yours: Microsoft does want third party applications sitting in the kernel anymore.
theverge.com/…/microsoft-windows-kernel-antivirus…