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France runs fusion reactor for record 22 minutes

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Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨misk@sopuli.xyz⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://newatlas.com/energy/france-tokamak-cea-west-fusion-reactor-record-plasma-duration/

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  • Fizz@lemmy.nz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is so cool. I remember seeing that Europe is working on a massive mega project to build an even bigger reactor for more experiements. Its costing like 75 trillion

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  • vastlyimproved69@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    merde

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  • Sunshine@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Amazing news!

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  • ian@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    They should get out more.

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  • Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    How ks the drill baby drill crowd going to compete against mini stars in a can?

    Lmao. Fucking oil losers

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    • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      How ks the drill baby drill crowd going to compete against mini stars in a can?

      Nu-Cu-Lar Bad? That’s…about as far as they’ll make it. To be fair, that might be as far as they need to. It’s all the oil companies will approve of them learning, at least.

      Of course, it sounds like the big problem of how to remove more power from it than you spend keeping it reacting remains an issue, presuming they can continue to extend reaction lifetimes to be functionally unlimited.

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    • Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Well, if I lived in the world of American liberals and conservatives I was taught about growing up, the game would be over the moment fusion power became cheap, and everybody would be happy.

      In the real world though? We’ll wait way too long, then get excited when it finally starts to happen, and then right before The Big Day some smooth brained asshole will blow up part of the reactor or fly a plane into the facility or something.

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    • ubergeek@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I suppose we’ll need to worry about that, once we get a net positive output from a fusion reactor.

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    • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Plastic Straws. Plastic cups. Wrapping indvidual food items in plastic and then putting them in a larger plastic bag which you carry home in an even larger plastic bag.

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      • njordomir@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The food has been impregnated with microplastics as well. This machine runs on sugar, but someone put oil in the tank. :-/

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    • Baggie@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Idk dude, we already have the sun and wind but they hate that stuff too, despite it being very close to free. Hell they’ll probably bitch about fusion causing a surplus of power outside peak loads.

      If it doesn’t perpetuate the broken ways we currently do things it doesn’t give their buddies money, so it’s woke or something else bullshit.

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  • meowmeowbeanz@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    France’s 22-minute plasma reaction is a bold stride toward sustainable fusion energy but remains experimental.

    🐱🐱🐱🐱

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  • Fleur_@hilariouschaos.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Just one more giga Jule guys …

    Pro fusion research btw just a chronic shitposter

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    • pigup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I felt that

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  • CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well, I’m still skeptical, but I have far more trust in France’s reporting than Chinese claims.

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    • surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So just blatant Sinophobia.

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      • Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Yeah, just like all that anti-white sentiment towards the US because we elected a president who almost passes for off-white.

        Though I suppose there could be other reasons if we dig deep enough.

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      • thebestaquaman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        China: Spews blatant and obvious lies about everything that does or does not cast a shadow. Heavily censors any source.

        Some guy: I don’t trust information coming from China.

        China (and shills): That’s sinophobic!!

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    • DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      They’re part of the same research effort.

      Nice jingoism tho

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      • Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        China had a long history of fraudulent science that they need to dig out of to gain a good reputation.

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      • jenesaisquoi@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        TIL not believing a genocidal dictatorship is extremist nationalism

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      • Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        huh, I learned a new words today

        for others who want to know

        • Jingoism: noun

          1. Extreme Nationalism characterized by a belligerent foreign policy

          2. A bellicose patriotidm; aggressive chauvinism; belligerence in international relations

        • Bellicose: adjective

          1. warlike or hostile in manner or temperment

          2. inclined to war or contention

          3. warlike in nature/aggressive;hostile

        • Chauvinism: noun

          1. Militant devotion to and glorification of one’s country; fanatical patriotism.

          2. Prejudiced belief in the superiority of one’s own gender, group, or kind.

          3. Blind and absurd devotion to a fallen leader or an obsolete cause; hence, absurdly vainglorious or exaggerated patriotism.

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      • you_are_it@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        This is great if so, is it so?

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      • Tja@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I don’t think that word means what you think it means…

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  • match@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    1,337 seconds? That… that number used to mean something, but now i can’t recall what…

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    • rimjob_rainer@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I still use 1337 sometimes, for joke names like H4xX0r1337 and it’s always that nobody gets it. How could past internet culture vanish like that?

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      • canajac@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        All your base are belong to us

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    • robador51@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      1337, leet, elite

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      • Th3D3k0y@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Shh, don’t let the kids hear you say that

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    • not_so_handsome_jack@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The translation has been lost to the ages

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      • Hupf@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        megatokyo.com/strip/9

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      • chiliedogg@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Found someone who can help you.

        youtu.be/O2rGTXHvPCQ

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  • caboose2006@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    30 years guys.

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    • ilinamorato@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It’s always thirty years away because every time it gets close to 15 years away they cut the funding in half. Zeno’s Dichotomy in action.

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  • frog_brawler@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I hope it smoked a cigarette once it finished.

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  • antor124@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is an incredible milestone for fusion power! 22 minutes of plasma reaction is a huge step forward. Looking forward to seeing how this technology evolves. Check out more details here: <a href=“markdown-viewer.com”>markdown viewer</a>.

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    • mrvictory1@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Which lemmy client are you using? Your reply has

      Check out more details here: <a href=“markdown-viewer.com/”>markdown viewer</a>.

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      • vandsjov@feddit.dk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        And visiting the website is a mess as well

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  • DataDisrupter@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I didn’t see any mention of the output in the article. 22MW injected, but does anyone know if the reaction was actually generating a positive output?

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    • Sceptique@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Article said 2.6GJ input, 2.6 output so 1Q

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    • simplejack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Sounds like the goal of the test wasn’t to vet ignition power in relation to output. These people are testing the durability of system designs that can maintain a reaction after ignition.

      If this was a car, they wouldn’t be testing the fuel efficiency, they’d be testing how long they could drive before the wheels fell off.

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    • sushibowl@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      No magnetic confinement fusion reactor in existence has ever generated a positive output. The current record belongs to JET, with a Q factor of 0.67. This record was set in 1997.

      The biggest reason we haven’t had a record break for a long time is money. The most favourable reaction for fusion is generally a D-T (Deuterium-Tritium) reaction. However, Tritium is incredibly expensive. So, most reactors run the much cheaper D-D reaction, which generates lower output. This is okay because current research reactors are mostly doing research on specific components of an eventual commercial reactor, and are not aiming for highest possible power output.

      The main purpose of WEST is to do research on diverter components for ITER. ITER itself is expected to reach Q ≥ 10, but won’t have any energy harvesting components. The goal is to add that to its successor, DEMO.

      Inertial confinement fusion (using lasers) has produced higher records, but they generally exclude the energy used to produce the laser from the calculation. NIF has generated 3.15MJ of fusion output by delivering 2.05MJ of energy to it with a laser, nominally a Q = 1.54. however, creating the laser that delivered the power took about 300MJ.

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      • frayedpickles@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The input energy doesnt matter that much. Nobody is going to use 1980s laser tech to power a real reactor. As with OP, inertial confinement is interested in very small nuanced science aspects, not making a power plant.

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      • Lycist@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        theguardian.com/…/us-scientists-achieve-net-energ…

        I’ve seen a few mentions of positive output.

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      • DataDisrupter@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I wasn’t aware of that distinction about the energy for the laser to generate the heat energy within the reaction not being factored into the Q value, very interesting, thank you! Would that energy for the laser still be required in a “stable reaction” continuously, or would it be something that would “trail off”?

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  • sit@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    [deleted]
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    • SirHery@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Wth is this comment?

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      • commander@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        A reasonable question.

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    • vithigar@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I read thorough it for the details.

      It was net negative power, requiring 2MW of power to maintain fusion. The major achievement of this particular experiment was doing so without the fusion reaction damaging the containing assembly.

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      • TomHanx_TripleSix@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Thanks for this TLDR. I’m too high to read actual things.

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  • akakevbot@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The Power of the Sun - Spider Man 2

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    • RunningInRVA@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The power of the sun in the palm of my hand

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      • exocortex@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        How big are your hands???

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      • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The only reason to pursue fusion power research is so you can say this on a weekly basis. Any benefits to humanity are purely secondary.

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      • ThePyroPython@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        la puissance du soleil dans la paume de ma main

        Honhonhon

        [Takes a drag on a sexy cigarette]

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  • tomkatt@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is freaking awesome. Only a few years ago it was exciting to see a fusion reaction last a fraction of a second.

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    • Thief@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      It is awesome. Whichever country develops it first will be remembered as the next ‘moon landing’ event forever.

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      • Saleh@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        So a big event without any practical relevance because there is more cheaper, reliable and safer alternatives available?

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  • Krik@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Doesn’t sound that impressive when Wendelstein 7-X achieved 17 minutes of plasma in 2021.

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    • Cocodapuf@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Agreed

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    • Naz@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yes but 22 minutes is longer than 17 minutes

      Think of it like a pizza oven

      How well done is your pizza?

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    • Madison420@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I can’t find a reference to that but China did 17 minutes in January this year. I think you’re confusing the announcement that they increased power by 17x while maintaining plasma.

      This test was 20 minutes at a higher power setting without being incredibly destructive, that’s their milestone.

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  • LostWon@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Maybe if it runs longer, we all get to jump to a better timeline. 😅

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    • Sceptique@leminal.space ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      No tech will give you a better timeline, back on the floor please ^^ It’s a political problem before anything else, and energy production is far from being the first problem.

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      • naught101@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Scientists: invents commercial scale fusion Capitalist: hordes the almost free energy because why not? Poor people are only useful as a resource anyway.

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    • Obelix@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m sceptical. Even if somebody would present a working fusion reactor today, what would the timeline to replace everything based on fossil fuels even be? Build several thousand of expensive fusion reactors in every country of the world, even in geopolitical rivals like China, Russia or North Korea or war-torn third world countries? Replace every car with an electrical one? Replace home heating everywhere? Rebuild every ship and airplane worldwide?

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      • CoffeeJunkie@lemmy.cafe ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Progress is progress, and it’s good to be skeptical (I literally just posted a comment saying “I’m skeptical”!), but progress is good. 🙂 What other alternatives are there?

        If it doesn’t make dollars, it doesn’t make sense. That’s why the electric car movement is having a hard time really taking off rn; it is hard to justify & all the tech, all our builds, aren’t exactly super economical yet. And they’re not built for tough conditions, heavy towing, long commutes, and easily workable & recyclable components.

        …but things are, indeed, getting better. If you look at it from a macro view. Lithium recycling can be done even a decade ago, but IIRC it was relatively small scale & the lithium could be refreshed “most of the way”, not fully. The right things will catch on when their time is right & its viability is realized.

        Man’s greatest strength is our shared knowledge, technology, science, and innovation. I encourage you to make good decisions in your personal life and be positive. 🙂

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      • LostWon@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I was just making an abstract sci-fi joke based on how cold fusion has been presented like a Holy Grail in the past. Obviously a better source of energy isn’t going to solve all our problems, no matter how good it is.

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      • JayObey711@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        I mean yea that’s the plan. What are the other options? Force every countrie to stop producing instead to reduce carbon emissions that way? Wich one Sounds more realistic? And I feel like you assume that fusion reactors are dangerous because your comments about war torn countries. But it’s not possible to turn them into weapons. They run on hydrogen. And if they ever oberheat or something the magnets stop working and the reaction stops.

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    • PumpkinEscobar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Or the world blows up and it’s all over. I guess what I’m saying is, no downside, fire it up and let’s see what happens.

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  • WalnutLum@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is cool but also remember the practicalities of Fusion make it not much better than nuclear:

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZHmHBMaS6Sw

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    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
      [deleted]
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      • hildegarde@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        no. that’s thermodynamically impossible.

        though it is true that fission and fusion are opposites, you cannot gain energy by fissing and fusing the same material. There’s an inverted bell curve where medium sized elements are the lowest energy state. You can get energy by making atoms more medium, fusing the smallest atoms or fissing the biggest ones. Doing the opposite costs energy.

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      • WalnutLum@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        The primary issue is that deuterium-deuterium reactions (the only practical fusion process that seems to work is deuterium-tritium and deuterium-helium, as you need insane temperatures for proton-boron, so deuterium will end up reacting with itself) produce 3 times the radiation of equivalent power output from fission reactions, so you need MASSIVE amounts of shielding for a reactor to run for an extended period of time.

        This also highly irradiates the materials inside the reactors themselves, to a degree that maintenance requires built-in robots because the inside of the reactor is too radioactive for humans (this also eventually destroys the robots). The most optimistic estimates for how long a reactor could possibly last is 100 years. At that point the entire reactor would need to be torn down and buried because most of the components would be too radioactive to use anymore. At which point you have the exact same issue as radioactive waste storage, but no recycling process for something crazy like a radioactive isotope of silicon.

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    • Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      not to say its the greatest form of energy production ever, but, what are your gripes with nuclear these days anyway?

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      • WalnutLum@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        None! My comment may be misunderstood.

        If you’re of my generation you kind of grew up being told fusion energy was the holy grail of energy production as it’s clean and doesn’t produce a bunch of radioactive byproduct. (Stuff like SimCity etc. made fusion reactors seem like a miracle technology)

        In reality fusion also produces a massive amount of radiation and radiative byproducts, so it’s not the holy grail of energy that I think most people might assume it is.

        Fusion and Fission are two sides of the same coin, so fusion experiments are important because they aid in making fission reactors safe as well!

        I’m especially looking forward to seeing how material scientists attempt to solve the massive fast neutron radiation that fusion reactors produce, as Thorium reactors have the same issue.

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      • Cocodapuf@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

        Well, really it’s the opposite, nuclear works already. So why not just build nuclear plants at 1/20 the cost? (and actually get some net positive energy)

        Just saying…

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    • dev_null@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Well nuclear is great, so even “not much better” would be great.

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  • notsoshaihulud@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    A headline without calling it an “Artificial Sun”?!

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    • yogurt@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      They say “artificial sun” because that’s what it is though, there’s no fusion reactions they’re just microwaving hydrogen to millions of degrees to study the kind of thing that would happen IF somebody runs a fusion reactor for 22 minutes.

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  • x00z@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Why don’t we use “shatters world record” like the pro-China articles where they did this for 16 minutes?

    I know why.

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  • DarkCloud@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Garantee you they weren’t generating a whole lot of power though… And if you can’t do that part then what’s the point?

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  • Placebonickname@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Meanwhile in America we’re trying to make macdonalds cheaper by bundling an extra sandwich to go along with a value meal…

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  • HowAbt2morrow@futurology.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Oh shit. Things are heating up in the fusion race.

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  • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    1,337 seconds

    Image

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  • jordanlund@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Mr. Fusion now 1 step closer… 10 years late, but still!

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