Everyone makes incest jokes about Adam and Eve and their children but they never mention that there was another woman named Lilith (Adam's first wife) who would have added variance to the gene pool.

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• MdRuckus@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Well, since it’s all made up, I guess you can claim whatever you want.

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    We’re here for an interesting discussion. Mythology totally off the table for you?

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    • SPRUNT@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      May as well be discussing the hypothetical offspring of Santa and the Easter Bunny.

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  • LordCirais@pawb.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Image

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    • TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      lol… I’m not even an atheist and I recognize the shit is all made up. Do you actually believe it happened?? or is this just “everyone I don’t like is ugly”

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    1000022701

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• AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Two things about that (overanalyzing your shower thought):

  1. Geneticists have what they call the “50/500 rule,” which basically means that you need at least 50 people to avoid inbreeding, and at least 500 to avoid genetic drift. So while three people are 50% better than two, it’s not going to come close to avoiding inbreeding.

  2. If you read up on Lilith, including your Wikipedia link, you’ll see her name only comes up once in the Bible, and it’s not as Adam’s wife. All the stuff about her comes from other things, including Babylonian and Mesopotamian writings, and lots of folklore from the middle ages. And at that, she’s sometimes Adam’s first wife, with different explanations about what happened to her that really in her not coming back to the garden, or she’s a demon. So there’s not much likelihood that she’s contributing to the gene pool.

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  • HerbalGamer@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    3. Wasn’t Eve made from Adam’s rib and thus share his DNA?

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    • AFKBRBChocolate@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah, good point.

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    • ebits21@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That good ‘ol XX rib mmm

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    • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      youtube.com/shorts/FN4pVp6lNJ0?si=0sGsDZMd1VYygGs…

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    • Fredselfish@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That one version. There actually two different versions of Adam and Eve.

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    • dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Idk I thought it was an Evangelion thing

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  • towerful@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The only counterpoint i can see is that god is (honestly, at best WAS infallible).
    So god made 2 perfect humans who cannot inbreed as there are no defective genes.
    At some point down the line, mutations came in and introduced possible genes that could combine/dominate to produce inbreeding.

    If we are accepting the premise of 2 original humans, why not 2 perfect original humans.
    If God made eve from adams rib, why not have them be genetically perfect.
    But Im sure there is some science i am missing where a huge genome analysis has shown that “perfect” genes have never or could not ever exist.

    And, tbh, this might as well be all science fiction based on a bunch of made up stories.

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    • CosmicTurtle@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      If I remember my hermeneutics, the canon is that essentially, God had “blessed” early descendants of Adam and Eve, allowing their children to thrive.

      It wasn’t until after the flood I believe that incest becomes more of a theme in the Bible, implying that they shouldn’t have children.

      But it’s been years since I gave this any serious study so I may be remembering incorrectly.

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  • Varyk@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Awesome, I was showing up for the demon angle.

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  • QueenB@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Good response!

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• mipadaitu@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Because Lilith isn’t mentioned in all versions of the Adam and Eve story, and certainly isn’t mentioned in Genesis. There’s plenty of versions of the story with lots of different characters, and plenty of interpretations of what happens, but in the Canonical Christian Bible, there are at least two events where the entire human race is only directly described as being one single family - Adam and Eve, and Noah’s flood.

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  • QueenB@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The confusion comes from Genesis giving two creation accounts of a woman.

    Genesis 1:27 So God created mankind in his own image,in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

    then later…

    Genesis 2:22 Then the LORD God made a woman from the rib he had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

    It appears that a man and woman was created at the same time in Genesis 1:27, then later in Genesis 2:22 a woman was created from a rib

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    • daddyjones@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This is probably a result of the Hebrew literary practice of narrating a story once in poetic language and then again in prose. So it’s the same man and woman being created, just retold in a different style.

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    • snausagesinablanket@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      This is the origin of the McRib.

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    • ImWaitingForRetcons@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Current scholarly consensus is that the Geneses are actually two different accounts, one likely originating in ancient Israel and the other in ancient Judah. It’s why the two stories are so startlingly different when you read them side by side.

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  • fubo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The Bible, and even the Torah, are compilations from stories that existed before these particular books were written down. However, the character of Lilith as “first wife of Adam” is probably not something left out of the Torah, but a much later invention.

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  • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You have to remember that which books got to be canon in the Bible were decide at the Council of Nicea

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• Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Because Lilith is not actually mentioned in the Christian bible despite this wiki page’s attestation she is mentioned in Isaiah. She only appears in rabbitic literature.

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  • MrPoopbutt@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I can’t remember where I read this, but I remember reading that the inspiration for vampiric lore was rabies. Fear of water (vampires can’t go over running water), fear of the sun, spread by biting…

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  • EffortlessEffluvium@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    rabbitic snort

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    • I_Has_A_Hat@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      And that’s why we celebrate Easter with the Easter Bunny! /s

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    • Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Never seen the word before. Immediately knew exactly what it meant due to context; but… yeah, funny.

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• centof@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Lilith left Adam after she refused to become subservient to him and then would not return to the Garden of Eden

  Based.

  All Hail Lilith, The sacred mother of Feminism

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  • roofuskit@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    She became the first demon. The first example of the Bible literally demonizing women.

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    • themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Sort of but not really. Lilith isn’t in the biblical version of Adam and Eve. There might be one mention of Lilith in and unrelated story in Isaiah, or it might be an old Hebrew word for screech owl.

      The connection to Adam comes from folktales and fanfics written 1,000 years later. In terms of biblical tradition, she’s closer to Steve than Adam.

      The Bible does a fine job of demonizing women, starting with Eve. But Christians don’t need a scriptural reason to demonize something they can’t control.

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  • RGB3x3@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That’s the reason my wife and I named our daughter Lilith.

    She’s not taking anyone’s shit.

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• kaffiene@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Which might be relevant if those were real people. You might as well worry about the genetic makeup of Pokemon

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  • gaael@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Are you saying pokemon are not real ?

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    • fujiwood@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Image

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    • kaffiene@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Not at all! . Pikachu assures me that he exists.

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  • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I love how some scholars say Lilith didn’t exist… None of them did!

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• melmi@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Incest doesn’t inherently cause genetic disorders, it just increases your chance of being born with recessive genetic disorders. Most of those disorders are mutations, and if the Garden of Eden is so perfect there probably aren’t genetic disorders to start out with, meaning incest is fine from a genetic perspective. All the genetic disorders would be mutations later down the line. Maybe they’re punishment for the original sin or something, to fit it into the themes of the story.

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  • Crackhappy@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That’s a fantastic retroactive nonsensical explanation for Adam and Eve. Bravo.

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  • Darthjaffacake@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Nah genetic disorders aren’t mutations, they’re incorrect copies of original traits. I’m not a geneticist so don’t quote me on this, but the reason incest causes problems has nothing to do with mutations as they rarely happen and everything to do with not having enough variation in your own genetics to cover when there’s “data loss”. Again, I’m not a scientist.

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    • squattingmonk@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Incorrect copies are mutations.

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• fidodo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Sounds like a shitty retcon from an series that jumped the shark

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Literally what the Talmud is after Jesus showed up who basically perfectly matched their messiah, but they rejected Him because he didn’t come with an army to bring them greatness lmao

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• dustyData@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I don’t think creationism is particularly bothered by genetics.

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  • Speculater@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Apparently telomeres used to be so long they wrapped around your ankles and you lived to be 600.

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• Son_of_dad@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Can’t have an ancient story without an evil woman you can blame everything on.

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• Deceptichum@kbin.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Anyone feel like this is just the story of some douche who divorced his awesome wife to find a subservient slave wife and over thousands of years its become part of a religion?

  “Oh that Lilith we don't talk about her she was a demon” he tells his grandson and 200 years after the story people interpret her as a literal demon, and just gets wackier and wackier as time goes on. Kinda feel like you could explain all that Abrahamic lore that way.

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  • NoIWontPickaName@kbin.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’m just saying, homie made the wrong choice.

    Let her do all the work.🤣

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    • Death_Equity@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Adam passed up a creampie loving dick riding demon. They were sterile and she didn’t have monthlies. Lilith wouldn’t have had him eat the apple, she would have had him on pineapple and water until the sky fell as fire and it rained as ashes.

      Lilith fucks back, Eve wanted to do it through a sheet. Adam was a damned fool.

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  • dudinax@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And they were bums living in some other guy’s garden until they got caught.

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• CultHero@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Lilith mated with demons not humans.

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  • UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    God is there any way where I can be Lilith?

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    • itslilith@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      easy

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• Lojcs@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Couldn’t God just create more humans after the first three? Is it certain that he creates 3 and then explicitly stops?

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  • MNByChoice@midwest.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Eve had two sons. Cain found a wife “somewhere”. Cain was also market so no one would kill him, but the three other people known to exist were his parents and dead brother.

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    • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Cain found a wife in the Land of Nod. It’s never explained where those people came from.

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    He apparently did. Cain was sent east of Eden to the Land of Nod where he found a wife.

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  • roofuskit@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    So, what a lot of people don’t realize is a large percentage of the Bible is just lineages.

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  • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    how many ribs do you think adam has?

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• key@lemmy.keychat.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Fucking your half-sibling is still incest.

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  • QueenB@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yes, but Cain and/or Abel could have sex with Lilith and that offspring would not be the result of inbreeding. After that everything else is unless there are more people.

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  • Death_Equity@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Literally nobody else, you would.

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• Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Thing is, Lilith didn’t pop up in texts apart from post-Jesus, such as talmudic texts. (although a Lilith was mentioned in Isaiah, it could have been a demon of some sort) so she’d only really be regarded by modern day Judaism, not by Christians.

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• TimewornTraveler@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  God the book of Genesis is so fucking dumb, I can’t believe people base their entire worldview around it.

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    or that Jesus is the actual son of God

    I mean… He kind of claimed to be the Son of God, did miracles, and then proceeded to die and rise again from the death

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    • Cypher@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      People claimed someone did those things, the zombie part was addrd somewhere around 300 years AFTER the claimed date of death.

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    • N4CHEM@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Did he, though?

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• slazer2au@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Also Adam lived quite a long life. Like several human lifetimes

  Then there is this fun titbit.

  Adam withdrew from Eve for 130 years after their expulsion from Eden, and in this time both he and Eve had sex with demons, until at length they reunited and Eve gave birth to Seth

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  • reddig33@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What scripture is that?

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    • letsgo@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It might be a creative interpretation of Genesis 5:3, which I just read as Seth being born when Adam was 130 years old.

      Perhaps if they didn’t age in Eden, the concept of “living X years” wouldn’t apply, so “when Adam had lived 130 years” could be interpreted to mean after they’d been booted out. But they hadn’t had Cain and Abel before the Fall, so I don’t really see how that interpretation could work, unless it’s being merged with other narratives.

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• phorq@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  If you’re grasping at cousins as being the sole separator you know you have a problem. But also there’s a lot of conflicting information, such as Cain settling in the city of Nod east of Eden which suggests I guess that there were people outside of Eden already. Don’t take anything too literally, and jokes are jokes.

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• Aatube@kbin.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Why would Lilith not be a sibling of Adam if Eve is?

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• PanoptiDon@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It’s estimated that it would take about 160 people to perpetuate the species.

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• Mango@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I also hear she’s a super sexy top.

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• RanchOnPancakes@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I don’t. There are far more interesting fictional character to talk about.

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• reverendsteveii@lemm.ee ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I mean, in the KJV at least there’s adam and eve, then cain and abel. then just cain, and then the book just says “Cain went to the land of Nod, east of Eden. And Cain knew his wife.” So there were definitely other people around and canonically we’re not inbred, it’s just that we all have a common inheritance from Cain, and therefore Eve, and therefore we all inherited original sin.

  It makes a lot more sense when you remember that YHWH was originally a bronze age thunder and warrior god who was not the one and only god like it says in christian canon. He was a god amongst many gods, and only ever asserted himself as the one and only god of the tribes of Judea (who were, at the time, polytheistic). It’s the difference between your girlfriend saying you’re not allowed to date anyone else and your girlfriend saying she’s literally the only girl that has ever existed and will ever exist. It’s not until after the Jews lost their war with the Babylonians and Solomon’s temple was destroyed that we start seeing YHWH spoken of as the creator and the only God. Early versions of the creation story even have YHWH using the first person plural when making declarations, implying that the audience was other gods which would have been easily accepted at the time in which the stories emerged but are absolute anathema to Christians and Jews today. From memory, after Adam and Eve eat the apple YHWH says something like “They have eaten of the tree of knowledge, and now know of good and evil. If they eat from the tree of life they will become like us.”

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• Pratai@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  youtu.be/sP3V7PxjdQo?si=f4ESy_oAEw6E3uc3

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