Because a bunch of idiots take their hands off their steering wheel and think Elmo’s is 100% safe.
Tesla Has The Highest Accident Rate Of Any Auto Brand
Submitted 11 months ago by Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
Fake4000@lemmy.world 11 months ago
jettrscga@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That’s probably because Elon’s literally been trying to sell their autopilot as fully autonomous for at least 5 years now.
History of their self-driving claims
May 2016 someone dies using autopilot
November 2016 Tesla publishes video of self-driving with no hands on wheel
Class action lawsuit
More people die
Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They’ve been convince of it by that very man.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 11 months ago
A friendly reminder that road safety advocates recommend against the use of the word “accident” to describe car crashes, because it downplays the fact that many crashes are preventable, either by better safe road design or by the drivers being more responsible with with 2 tonne machinery they are operating.
Dalvoron@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Rakonat@lemmy.world 11 months ago
First thing that came to mind, honestly thought it was the quote at first.
Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 11 months ago
If it isn’t intentional then isn’t it by definition an accident?
If I break my leg while mountainbiking it seems a bit unreasonable to claim that it wasn’t an accident because mountainbiking is an extreme sport and this could’ve been avoided if I was knitting instead.
9488fcea02a9@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I’m speeding through a school zone at 60km/h… I didnt INTEND to kill anyone, but i didnt see the crosswalk and mowed down a bunch of pedestrians.
This is not an accident. Entirely preventable. Intent doesnt matter
The vast majority of car collisions are entirely avoidable.
MondayToFriday@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
In aviation, an intentional accident is still an accident. A suicidal pilot can deliberately crash an airplane, and it’s still considered an accident.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 11 months ago
Which “road safety advocates” are those?
“Accident” simply means it was not intentional and has absolutely nothing to do with preventability.
set_secret@lemmy.world 11 months ago
i know many of you all just LOVE to hate on Tesla, it’s like the shit flavor of he year for hating and no doubt Elon’s shit fuckery is partially driving it, but honestly this is an absolutely classic Forbes piece of garbage. Firstly, it’s a masterclass in selective bias - focusing solely on Tesla while barely whispering about Ram’s near-similar accident rates. Classic move to sensationalize one brand over another. Then there’s the U.S. only scope, which conveniently ignores the global context which could paint a vastly different picture. The article kicks off with a ‘non-causal’ disclaimer but then spends the rest of the time subtly linking Tesla’s Autopilot to the high accident rate, without concrete evidence. It’s a bit like saying ‘no offense’ before offending someone.
The Tesla recall is mentioned, sneakily implying a connection to the accident rate, despite the lack of direct correlation. The article is less about informing and more about crafting a narrative that fits a preconceived notion, all while skating on thin ice made of half-truths and strategic omissions.
madcaesar@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Two things are true. The article is garbage, but so are Teslas.
dpkonofa@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They’re not, though. Elon can suck it but my Tesla is the best vehicle I’ve ever owned and it’s not even close.
limelight79@lemm.ee 11 months ago
When this was posted yesterday, I brought up issues with the sample selection (not random) and universe the “study” looked at (people using one of those sites to shop for insurance), and while I think most understood my point, some people got upset at me “defending Tesla drivers”…
Lev_Astov@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Last time a garbage hit-piece like this pissed me off, I looked into the crash statistics myself and found Tesla vehicles were around 1/80th the average crash ratio per capita.
I’m sure this is somewhat skewed by the kinds of people driving them versus the average work vehicles and clunkers out there, but still, it just feels absurdly false to claim Teslas even approach the highest crash rate.
And even the sketchy “study” not even endorsed by the site it’s posted to, then linked by Forbes, then says Ram vehicles as the highest crash rate (lol), so it’s wild that Forbes goes on to say it’s Tesla at the top spot.
Llamadramas@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Per capita means nothing in this situation.
argarath@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Comparing with the per capita means nothing here, you need to compare with other car companies, as comparing to the per capita is like comparing the number of lung cancer deaths to the number of all deaths, of course it’s going to be a very small number, but when you compare with other cancers then you can see that lung cancer is one of biggest killers amongst cancers
chitak166@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Forbes is shit and I wish people would stop taking them seriously.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 11 months ago
To be fair, Tesla / Musk spend a LOT of time talking about how they’re autonomous driving product are critical for reducing accidents and saving lives. Also, there isn’t a lot of public quantitative data around this major recall. That’s why they’re getting the headline.
Maybe autopilot is great, and it’s the non-autopilot drivers that are terrible, but right now, the brand has net accident rate that rivals a company that sells massive rolling blind spots to people who love Calvin pissing stickers.
Spaceballstheusername@lemmy.world 11 months ago
How exactly could this study give a concrete reason for the higher than average crash rates?
Landmammals@lemmynsfw.com 11 months ago
They also don’t make any adjustment for fault. Tailgating a Tesla is just a bad idea, they brake insanely fast.
asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Tailgating anyone is a bad idea.
NZV65572@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Thank you. This is exactly right, it’s a hit piece designed to get people who already don’t like Tesla all worked up… and it worked remarkably well.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
This is purely my anecdotal experience, but Tesla drivers appear to be some of the worst drivers on the road. There are stereotypes of drivers. BMW’s never signal their turns, Jeeps think they can drive basically however they want including on shoulders, and Tesla drivers are oblivious to any kind of spatial understanding of the road around them.
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Tesla drivers are oblivious to any kind of spatial understanding of the road around them
I blame the design that forces you to keep your eyes off the road. Making a left turn? Don’t look left, take your eyes off the road and look down at the screen on your right to see the left lane warning. Wipers need adjustment? Take your eyes off the road and look at the touch screen because there are no buttons.
Now that there is data, maybe the highway administration can force Tesla to put driver safety ahead of esthetics.
tias@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
I’m sure that’s one contributing factor, but I’d bet that the biggest issue is that the car is made to go fast. People who drive faster end up in more accidents. Hence why Audio / BMW drivers are also stereotypically bad drivers - they are both brands that focus on high acceleration.
Fogle@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
The wiper thing used to be an issue for sure, thankfully now you can use the wheel buttons to do it. Also for turning you really don’t need to look at anything. I’m not saying people don’t but you don’t need to. There are still a few things that are somewhat annoying mainly the defrost/defog but I feel like I look the same amount as I did in my other car to push those buttons as well
User_4272894@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The number of times I shout “your car is supposed to be smarter than that!” As a Tesla does something like, without signaling, whips around me and into oncoming traffic to pass a stopped city bus is staggering.
formergijoe@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Fun fact, the Lending Tree analysis listed in the article showed that Ram drivers have the “highest incident rate,” which looks at accidents, DUIs, speeding, and other traffic citations. This makes them the statistically worst drivers. BMWs have honorable mention as the having the highest DUI rate.
MaxPow3r11@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s reflective of their larger view/“understanding” (or lack of understanding) of the world/how it all works.
viking@infosec.pub 11 months ago
I came here to say exactly that. You can blame Musk for many things, but the cars are only as good as their drivers, and they are some of the worst I’ve seen indeed.
Kbobabob@lemmy.world 11 months ago
the cars are only as good as their drivers,
The design of the car isn’t that great. No physical buttons so you have to constantly look away from the road to interact with any car feature. Wipers, mirrors, climate control, music, etc… the blind spot and side views are on the display. Need to merge left but have to look right to see if it’s clear.
variants@possumpat.io 11 months ago
Yeah all the priest drivers switched to tesla’s, I’ve seen them so many times getting in the highway going to slow and merging across all lanes just to cause traffic
Salad_Fries@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I know its super pedantic, but the word “accident” really grinds my gears in this context.
The proper terminology is “crash”… accident infers that there is no fault or misconduct.
Tatters@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The official UK Police term is Road Traffic Collision, or RTC.
BritishDuffer@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What made you want to become a policeman-officer?
EvacuateSoul@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Trucking companies have switched the terms in the same way, since accident lightens responsibility. Even a not-at-fault crash could have been preventable often times, which is what they try to emphasize.
Mongostein@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
One of the many ways trucking companies avoid liability by putting all responsibility for fuck-ups on the driver.
Oderus@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You can intentionally crash into someone which would not be an accident but if you crash into someone not on purpose, then it’s an accident.
asret@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
Exactly, so the use of “crash” would generally be far better for these sorts of articles.
“Accident” starts addressing intentions or expectations.
We could just add easily refer to them as “vehicular violence” but then we’d end up distorting things in another direction.
Pipoca@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It doesn’t have to be on purpose. Accident implies that something was just a freak occurrence beyond anyone’s control. You can’t fix accidents. You can fix crashes.
If you’re driving negligently - drunk driving, not paying attention, etc then it’s not an accident.
If it’s due to bad road design, then it’s not an accident.
nicetriangle@kbin.social 11 months ago
I have a hard time seeing why the average person should have a zero to 60 in the sub 6 second range.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 11 months ago
How can you write an article like this with zero citations? They mention Lending Tree, who is a mortgage originator and that’s it.
littlecolt@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Is it possible that there’s a large overlap between idiots who are bad at driving and the type of people who buy Teslas?
ExLisper@linux.community 11 months ago
Unpopular opinion: all “fun” cars should be banned. You think driving is “fun”? Go to a racing track and have fun there. When I’m commuting I want to get to work safely, that’s my only objective. I don’t want to share the road with an idiot who thinks he’s the next Schumacher and can drive safely at 150km/h. All cars should have speed limiters installed. Why can they drive faster then the national speed limit at all? It makes no sense. You want to race? Put your racing car on a flat bet and carry it to the racetrack, I don’t care. The idea that driving is “fun” is cancer that killed more people than… well, real cancer. Shows like Top Gear that promote this idea are responsible for more deaths than Nazis.
stewsters@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I blame the touchscreen first ideology. Give em some physical buttons that you can feel without taking your eyes off the road.
That and the sheer power can make accidents happen faster than you can react.
Sirico@lemmy.world 11 months ago
People are allowed cars they don’t have skills to use.
paraphrand@lemmy.world 11 months ago
But Tesla always says the opposite.
Snapz@lemmy.world 11 months ago
And doesn’t his newest atrocity, long overdue and underdelivered/overpriced, also have a front end like a knife?
Zellith@kbin.social 11 months ago
I'm not looking forward to the day a tesla cyber truck hits someone. That's gonna be a grizzly scene in the right conditions.
aesthelete@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Maybe they’re sentient and actively suicidal.
limelight79@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Oh this is hilarious. First, I own a Mercury and a Ram, so I’m apparently the best and the worst at having accidents, DUIs, and tickets.
But I think there’s an inherent terrible bias in the data: “Our latest analysis uses QuoteWizard by LendingTree insurance quote data…” In other words, people who are regularly shopping for insurance. Probably because they have high rates, so therefore they are looking for better rates. Why do they have high rates? Probably because they have more crashes, DUIs, and other tickets than the average drivers.
I doubt that most people with normal rates go changing insurance companies regularly.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Bizarroland@kbin.social 11 months ago
My guess it's kind of like when you get solar panels and you're tied to the grid you feel a little better about using electricity willy-nilly, and so you use more electricity with solar panels than without.
I'm willing to bet that Tesla drivers were told that this vehicle will prevent them from getting an accident and so they are driving worse because they feel like they don't have to be as on guard as they do behind a non Tesla vehicle.
burliman@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I am both shocked and pleased that Ford did not make this list.
calypsopub@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I don’t know how many of these collisions are with pedestrians, but I have nearly stepped out in front of one twice just because they’re so quiet.
JustZ@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Oh fuck off lending tree. Made up nonsense.
EpicFailGuy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
NPC drivers. In the 90s it was Toyotas, then entry level Nissans took over in the mid 2000s … And now we got Tesla
whoisearth@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
letmegooglethat.com/?q=Tesla+build+quality+concer…
Don’t know why I bother you’re only going to continue mental gymnastics to further justify your head up your ass
Sabakodgo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
*In the USA
thecrotch@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Musk: Woo, we’re number 1!
nydas@lemmy.world 11 months ago
While I love to jump on the anti-Elon bus, I have to query: the highest accident rates, or highest accident rates as a percentage of vehicles on the road? If you have 10 Tesla cars on the road, and there are 2 MGs on the road, and 2 Telsas and one MG crashes, then what? 20% of Tesla vs. 50% of MG, but also that could be framed as ‘double the number of Teslas crash compared to MGs’ or ‘Tesla has the highest accident rate of any auto brand’.
cestvrai@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Look Ma, no hands!
BarterClub@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Crapy article. They miss used there own source.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The fact that Ram drivers are a close second is hilarious. I guess there is some truth to all the jokes about Rams being driven by aggressive idiots.
Gullible@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Aggressive drunk* idiots. Statistically.
tsonfeir@lemm.ee 11 months ago
At least Tesla owners can blame it on the computer. 🤣
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
What was it? 25% more likely to have a DUI record?
vexikron@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
I am still waiting for the inevitable country music song about a broken hearted cowboy whose self driving car leaves him for another man.
qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Weird Al should be all over this.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Saw this on Lemmy a few weeks ago
(Verse 1) Sitting in the cab of my old pickup truck, Memories rollin’ by, like the miles we used to clock. Drove through the sunset, with you by my side, Never thought a metal heart could take me for a ride.
(Chorus) We were a highway love, wind in our hair, Haulin’ dreams together, an inseparable pair. But now you’re gone, and it’s just my luck, My darlin’ left me, a self-driving truck.
(Verse 2) We hauled our troubles down those lonesome roads, Your engine hummed the tunes, while our story unfolds. Loaded up with laughter, and baggage too, Little did I know, you had a route of your own to pursue.
(Chorus) We were a highway love, wind in our hair, Haulin’ dreams together, an inseparable pair. But now you’re gone, and it’s just my luck, My darlin’ left me, a self-driving truck.
(Bridge) I miss the way your headlights cut through the night, The hum of your engine, our rhythm just right. But now the road is empty, just echoes of our song, You found a new destination, I guess I got it wrong.
(Verse 3) We parked under stars, shared secrets in the dark, But now it’s just silence, an abandoned truck stop. I’m left with memories, and a tank full of regret, A self-driving heartbreak, I’ll never forget.
(Chorus) We were a highway love, wind in our hair, Haulin’ dreams together, an inseparable pair. But now you’re gone, and it’s just my luck, My darlin’ left me, a self-driving truck.
(Outro) So here I am, parked on this lonely track, Wishing you’d come back, but you won’t look back. You rolled away, with gears that don’t feel, Left me stranded, at the crossroads of steel.
Osa-Eris-Xero512@kbin.social 11 months ago
I think there might be something to be said here for some potential selection bias. Are Tesla drivers like ram drivers, overly aggressive idiots but with the added layer of being relatively new tech?
oo1@kbin.social 11 months ago
More boringly , maybe its selection on the circumstances too. For example maybe ev's tend to drive more in urban environments, more urban may mean more collision opprtunities per time spent driving.
Of course ram is a farmers vehicle is desgned for rural use, so must rarely be seen in built up areas. /s
willis936@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The Forbes article seems to be citing numbers that are now a few weeks out of date. They cite that Tesla drivers have 23.54 accidents per 1,000 drivers and Ram has 22.76. If you go to their source link you’ll see that the more recent numbers are Tesla: 31.13 and Ram: 32.90.
www.lendingtree.com/…/brand-incidents-study/
Ram in MA is 64.44 and I want these fucking things outlawed.
yimby@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Read the source more carefully
Accidents only. Worst driver counts DUIs a d fines as well.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Why does Massachusetts have such aggressive drivers? That seems like a large deviation for such a small state
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s it the Ram that’s the problem, or the driver that also likes to cover the Ram in Infowars bumper stickers?
ExLisper@linux.community 11 months ago
Where I live Audi’s drivers are the worst. It’s like they are for losers that would like to do some posturing but can’t afford a Mercedes and it their frustrations manifest themselves in their stupid driving style.
No_Ones_Slick_Like_Gaston@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They don’t have a Mercedes because the EQS is not aspirational, as MB recently declared in relation to the lackluster sales of the series.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I had a friend years ago with Dodge Ram van. He said, “it says Dodge in the front because that’s what you’re supposed to do when you see it coming and Ram in the back because you didn’t read the warning on the front.”
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I wonder what that says about my Dodge Sprinter…
Lionel@endlesstalk.org 11 months ago
“I am driving a lifted DODGE RAM TRUCK”
"My lifted DODGE RAM TRUCK has BLINDING WHITE LED headlights positioned EXACTLY at EYE LEVEL. "
“I am currently TAILGATING you in the RIGHT LANE even though you’re going TWENTY MILES AN HOUR over the speed limit and the LEFT LANE is OPEN.”
“There are MONSTER ENERGY and FOX RACING stickers on the rear windshield of my lifted DODGE RAM TRUCK.”
“There are PERFECTLY CLEAN mud tires and MASSIVE CHROME RIMS on my lifted DODGE RAM TRUCK.”
“I make THIRTY-ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS a year and thought that that was a WISE FINANCIAL DECISION.”
“I bring cases of BUD LIGHT to girls at high school parties while my wife and children are at home.”
“My lifted DODGE RAM TRUCK has a GUN RACK which holds the AR-15 that I bought at WAL-MART.”
helenslunch@feddit.nl 11 months ago
Worth noting that “Ram” is now its own brand, divorced from Dodge, and they only make 1 vehicle, while other trucks are sold as part of the Ford and Chevy lineup. So it’s probable those other vehicles are bringing up the safety ratings of, say F150 and Silverado.
Omgarm@lemmy.world 11 months ago
At that point is seems like a good idea to replace human drivers.
machinin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Exactly, bring in much more public transportation. It would solve so many problems.