[deleted]
I remember getting a PS3 just to avoid this back then
Submitted 11 months ago by CluelessDude@lemmy.zip to gaming@lemmy.zip
https://lemmy.zip/pictrs/image/90667758-92d9-43ee-96be-46658d79fad6.webp
Comments
aniki@lemm.ee 11 months ago
vlad76@lemmy.sdf.org 11 months ago
Tinnitus?
xpinchx@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Not to be confused with EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
kratoz29@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Stop making me more jealous.
LuckingFurker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
Are we really going to convince ourselves now that Sony wouldn’t have introduced a subscription at some point? Realistically the only reason Microsoft where the ones to popularise it is because Sony didn’t get there first
Tier1BuildABear@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Meanwhile Nintendo was just waiting in the corner so they didn’t have to be the first to try and start charging for their incredibly shitty p2p serverless online service
LuckingFurker@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
We can at least be relatively sure Nintendo wouldn’t have been first because they were so fucking terrified of online consoles that they almost had to be dragged kicking and screaming into it at all
Pratai@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Nostradamus much?
vaseltarp@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Just don’t buy that expensive crap. If people where better at math they would buy PCs instead and we wouldn’t have any exclusives.
Zeth0s@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Steam deck is the best option for cost/value
theangryseal@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Damn I want that limited oled though haha.
I probably won’t be getting it.
glimse@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m finding it hard to believe that you can get PS5-tier graphics and performance from a $450 PC…do you have a build you can recommend?
Sylvartas@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You get cheaper games, no subscription for online play, mods, replaceable parts, and an actual computer that can do literally anything you program it to though. Also a PS5 is at the very least $550 where I live
Psychodelic@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Psst… The ps5 has a monthly/annual cost you’re conveniently forgetting about, while unfortunately proving right the OC you replied to
notquitetitan@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
You have to factor in the cost of the online subscription over the life of the console when pricing out a comparable PC. That is what he meant by “better at math”.
ThunderWhiskers@lemmy.world 11 months ago
You can’t, but getting in an argument with the master race nuts is a fool’s errand.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
yes, truly that is all that matters. God forbid you have to turn off godrays
randomaside@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
This is another case of YMMV because you have to be thrifty. You can walk away from a microcenter with everything but the GPU for that price. (The 5600x3D bundle is a really good option but I understand most people can’t get to a microcenter in person).
If you’re thrifty, you can get your hands on something like a Radeon 5700xt for between 80-120$ (check Ali Express).
On the AliExpress note, even though I recommend a GPU, I can tell you that I do not recommend any of these Chinese motherboards from AliExpress unless you’re prepared to burn money. You can get them to work for very cheap but they are made out of ewaste and there is always something wrong with them (I’ve bought a few).
This will get you into the sub 800$ tier Gaming PC. At that point I would recommend installing a Linux OS like ChimeraOS. This will give you the total functionality of a steam Deck and that console-like experience.
If you’re looking for some more pre-assembled, morefine and minisforum make small PCs that come with a discrete radeon 6600m. This will get you into a PC that will be the size of a console but will definitely put you above 800$.
kool_newt@lemm.ee 11 months ago
This is the story of software. Software was mostly given and traded openly until good 'ol Bill Gates en.wikipedia.org/…/An_Open_Letter_to_Hobbyists
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Gates had a point. Everyone was spending thousands on hardware but wouldn’t spend a little more for Basic. There were free options, they weren’t poor ( computer hardware was very expensive in the 70’s), but everyone was using Basic without buying it.
It’s like today where people will spend thousands for a gaming PC, then complain about Windows when they should be using Linux.
Knusper@feddit.de 11 months ago
Well, yeah, except that it’s literally reversed now. Windows is the only consumer-grade paid OS and it’s also the worst consumer-grade OS.
Bill Gates promised higher software quality and then delivered an OS, which has pretty much as its only quality that other software targets it.
hperrin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Online gaming requires servers to run, and servers require money. Either the game is more expensive, the online is a subscription, or you have to run the server yourself. There are games that do each of these.
Shake747@lemmy.dbzer0.com 11 months ago
Normalizing needless online servers is part of the issue here (only with AAA titles). These companies set up servers and say shit like “well it has to be paid for somehow!”
Games like Diablo 4 where you need internet to play single player. Diablo 2 resurrection removed all the LAN/Self hosting features of original D2.
Blizzard isn’t the only company doing this either.
Fuck that noise.
kakes@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
That said, with the prices being where they are, a single subscriber basically funds the entire cost of running the server.
520@kbin.social 11 months ago
Not exactly. Electricity aside, servers also require maintenance. That requires server admins.
aniki@lemm.ee 11 months ago
[deleted]Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 months ago
It’s too bad every dev runs their own (often piss-poor) servers instead of giving us dedicated server hosting software to run our own.
Waluigis_Talking_Buttplug@lemmy.world 11 months ago
PC games run on servers, but you don’t pay for a Windows monthly subscription to play the games, you just pay for the individual games themselves.
These servers are hosted by third party companies anyway.
hperrin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m not sure what you mean. PC games usually run on your PC, unless you’re streaming. It’s the multiplayer server software that run on servers. And the servers are paid for by the company that makes the game, usually. Or the publisher. The actual server hardware is rented from cloud providers, if that’s what you mean. Servers aren’t free, that’s my point. If you want multiplayer online functionality, someone has to pay for the server. And ultimately that cost gets passed on to you, the end user.
BolexForSoup@kbin.social 11 months ago
I wish more games would let us run the servers ourselves these days. Too many of them won’t even let you if you want to.
Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
Dont grt it twisted the main thing a subscription is funding is shareholder value.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 months ago
Most modern games do not have server software to run your own. And yet they don’t cost extra on PC. Hm. 🤔
pimento64@sopuli.xyz 11 months ago
Cost of doing business. Publishers who can’t afford to literally just forget about the cost of running servers have no need to be in business.
hperrin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Most companies aren’t in the business of giving away free services, and it’s wild to expect them to be. You wouldn’t expect a landscaping business to do all your landscaping for free after you pay for the first time.
rockSlayer@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What do you know, all three happened because of the unrelenting pursuit of profit.
hperrin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
All three happened because servers actually cost money. Do you give away things for free to strangers on the internet?
There’s no profit in letting users run their own servers, btw.
DavidGarcia@feddit.nl 11 months ago
BolexForSoup@kbin.social 11 months ago
This is basically an argument for itemizing any and all things that can be articulated tbh. I don't pay a "kitchen" fee or an "electrical" fee or a "dishwasher" fee when I go to a restaurant. They calculate what things cost on the whole then price accordingly. That's how 95% of non-single-item transactions occur.
x4740N@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Peer To Peer
Look it up
Your comment is exactly the same type I’d see from toxic users on reddit arguing that people should pay because Microsoft hosts servers for multiplayer and that the commenter gladly pays for it whenever I’d go to look at reddit posts calling out bullshit on pay walled multiplayer on consoles
hperrin@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Oh I don’t pay. I don’t play on PlayStation or Xbox, and I honestly don’t think people should, but I understand why people do. It’s easy, and playing on PC is harder.
AnonTwo@kbin.social 11 months ago
Right, there are games that do each of these.
Meanwhile consoles lock the whole damn thing behind the payment models.
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
Laughs in PC.
BolexForSoup@kbin.social 11 months ago
I enjoy PC gaming as much as anyone but the simple fact is you can't do what a Series S does for $250 with a $250 PC. Plus with gamepass the math doesn't even need a napkin. It's simply the best deal in gaming right now, whether you're paying for online play or not.
DarkGamer@kbin.social 11 months ago
you can't do what a Series S does for $250 with a $250 PC. Plus with gamepass the math doesn't even need a napkin. It's simply the best deal in gaming right now, whether you're paying for online play or not.
The consoles themselves are often sold at a loss because they know they will make that money back on games. Which is a better value proposition is arguable, especially once you factor in how much more you'll be paying per game relative to steam sales, the ability of PCs to do things other than gaming, and the inevitable obsolescence of consoles. I can still play games on a modern PC from when steam was new.
Microsoft also offers a game pass for PC, but I'd rather own my games.
barrbaric@hexbear.net 11 months ago
It was never going to be free forever, because that would be leaving free money on the table, which is unacceptable to any evil megacorp (which is to say, all of the big three). I imagine PSN initially being free was mostly a result of trying to bridge the gap between PS3 and 360 sales, given the multi-year delay and huge price difference.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 11 months ago
It was never going to be free forever, because that would be leaving free money on the table
So… When will playing online on PC require a subscription on top of the ISP?
Sprucie@feddit.uk 11 months ago
Probably about 2 days after Valve becomes a publicly traded company. While GabeN is alive I don’t think that’s a risk but after that who knows.
Piemanding@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I remember hearing it was originally gonna be paid, but Sony messed something up in their servers that made people angry and were forced to keep it free.
WldFyre@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I thought WoW, RuneScape and the like pioneered online subscriptions?
Buck@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They were not the first, either. But definitely the biggest in their day.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Ultima Online predates those too.
Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
Everquest had a subscription. I think subscription models were common back then for being a member of a forum or getting a magazine or news letter.
Default_Defect@midwest.social 11 months ago
Funny, I remember the playstation’s online being dog shit and offline a ton.
SexualPolytope@lemmy.sdf.org 11 months ago
This is why I exclusively play indie offline games. Also because my PC is getting old lol.
OrteilGenou@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I haven’t played multiplayer since the PS3 days, before Sony joined the greed bleed
huskypenguin@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Is the steam deck a console?
OtisRamflow@lemm.ee 11 months ago
No, it’s a handheld PC.
Cort@lemmy.world 11 months ago
To be fair, does that make a ps3 running Linux a desktop?
OrnateLuna@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
For the purposes of this conversation I would say yes
Then again I would count the steam deck more as a console than a PC in most scenarios
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I count it as a portable mini-PC because the games I’m playing on it are the same I own on PC…
GarbageShoot@hexbear.net 11 months ago
If MS didn’t do it, someone else would have and it would have become the trend anyway. The problem isn’t the particular sins of a specific company (though to be clear, MS is heinous), the problem is the profit motive.
257m@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Reject modern gaming, return to quake 3 arena.
JokeDeity@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I sleep like shit, but at least I’m happy with my PC.
BolexForSoup@kbin.social 11 months ago
I don’t think folks remember how truly shitty Nintendo‘s online service was when it was free. The fact is these companies will not put meaningful resources into them unless they are directly generating revenue. I hate it, but that’s reality.
DrDominate@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Monetization is the natural path of capitalism. It would not have stayed free for long.
Pratai@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Yeah… Microsoft has this thing where they ruin everything they can get their hands on.
x4740N@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I literally had this thought today then this post shows up on lemmy
FrenLivesMatter@lemmy.today 11 months ago
What if I told you servers cost money. No servers, no online gaming.
jol@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
Worse. All games used to let you create your own servers to play with friends. That’s basically gone.
GoodEye8@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Not just that. People wonder why online games are so toxic, overly competitive and filled with cheaters. Matchmaking is the reason.
You don’t have to be nice because chances are you’re never going to play with those people again. All other matchmade players are just glorified bots, they’re completely dehumanized. That means shitheads can act like shitheads without any repercussions. Compare that to community servers where the admin will ban you if you’re an asshole. You even end up making friends because the same people will visit the same server.
And what’s your purpose for playing when everyone you’re playing with are glorified bots? Well your focus turns on you which in turn means your main metric of fun becomes your own skill. Since you can directly measure your own skill you look a things like wins/losses and kdr. You start to focus on things that correlate to competitive play and if the matchmaking is skill-based the game actually pushes you into sweats as the goal is to get you to a statistical 50% winrate. Now compare that to community servers where you’re not pushed into sweats, the overall skill of players stays largely the same and because you’ll be playing with people you know there no need to focus on being the best you can be, you can just mess around with others.
And of course cheating is a huge issue, but again it’s one of those things where having an admin to vet sus players make a huge difference. The admin isn’t infallible but cheating is less of an issue if you’re playing with people you know.
But people would much rather give it all up and deal with toxicity, sweats and cheating because the server admin could be a badmin. But maybe I’m just old and am remembering the good old days when you could make friends playing on the same server.
theangryseal@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Jesus. I hadn’t thought about it.
I never make friends in games these days. I just drone around and quit when I get tired of it. I don’t even like multiplayer anymore. This is why.
Back in Counter-Strike/CS: Source days I made a ton of real friends. I knew what was going on in their lives. I congratulated them when they got married and had kids.
My clan server was always full of regulars just laughing and telling jokes and making changes to the server to see what worked for us. We had it perfect. Vote for knife fights, fun sounds like “gotchya bitch” for a knife kill. We built it together and we all stumbled into the server by accident and it just fit who were so we stayed. We had a rotation of maps that we all agreed on.
They’re still on my friends list. Last online 11 years ago, 7 years ago, 13 years ago, 12 years ago.
Damn, looking at that hurt a little bit.
It’s sad just how fast time goes. I have no idea where they are now or what they’re doing. That sucks.
The last time I talked to the one dude he had overdosed on heroin and was trying to get his life together. He might not even be alive anymore.
For nearly 5 years I hung out with those dudes every night.
I meet people now that I could see myself being friends with, but there’s no incentive to talk to them again. Random lobby, play game, the end.
I was hoping GO (now 2) would have an active user base in the servers. Nope. No gungame, no endless custom maps, no fun sounds, just base shit.
As sad as it was, I’m glad you made me think about this tonight.
pc486@reddthat.com 11 months ago
Spot on!
Sometimes even cheaters could be dealt with without an admin in those days. Servers would have fun game settings and odd maps that would break cheating gameplay.
My brother and I often played CS in the same room, on opposing teams because we didn’t like cheaters. We found an empty server with a sniping-only map. Made for great fun and someone joined in about 15 minutes later. They seemed really good, so we joined together to see if we could make it challenging. The new guy was just too good, so we decided to swap back and forth with the new guy to see if one of us could make a 1v2 miracle happen. That’s when we figured out he was impossibly aim hacking. Bummer, our fun game was toasted.
Then we realized the map settings had friendly fire on and a 5 second start delay. Aim hacks don’t target your own teammates. A perfect trap was available: we’d headshot TK the cheater at game start and then 1v1 each other. The cheater tried swapping to the other team only to find my brother using the same TK tactic. Our cheating friend found himself without a chance to grift. Needless to say, he didn’t hang around for long.
fadingembers@lemmy.blahaj.zone 11 months ago
Holy fuck I miss community servers
SpaghettiYeti@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I miss the days of opening Steam and being able to search a million servers to find the specific niche type of game I wanted in CS. Warcraft, custom maps, zombie… So fun
CluelessDude@lemmy.zip 11 months ago
There’s people actively working on bringing those to cs2, but you wouldn’t know by the massive shitshow that the server browser is with thousands of redirects currently, which is why the community also built a server browser if you search CS2Browser you’ll find it, you can go back to enjoying it ^^
oce@jlai.lu 11 months ago
Zombie escape is the best 🏃♂️ 🧟♀️
MiddledAgedGuy@beehaw.org 11 months ago
I don’t doubt this this is generally the case, but most of the games I enjoy playing with friends offer their own servers. Which got me thinking about it, and they tend to be indie games.
So it’s not gone. Niche, perhaps.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
it just reinforces the fact that the only games worth playing are indies and like 5 AAA ones