Submitted 1 year ago by boem@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Despite our robust economy, the US trails both Europe and China in terms of EV adoption.
Yeah, about that. The economy only looks robust because its health is based on the stock value of a limited number of U.S. corporations. The average American human being is fuckin broke...ironically, because of the pursuit of eternal continuous growth (which is impossible) for profit.
That is categorically false and it’s dishonest to suggest so.
GDP is at the highest rate in years. We are at full employment. Participation rate is the highest it’s been in 50 years. Wages outpaced inflation while inflation was crazy high helping debtors and the working class at the same time.
Your ideology blinds you.
Do you have a source on “wages outpac[ing] employment”?
Sell EV’s under $30k and you’ll sellout!
The Bolt? Sorry, they are getting rid of that for a few years. Hell, it took a lot for them to even agree to bring the damn thing back. They were going to kill it despite its popularity.
GM is bringing back the Bolt next year with a new battery design.
It’s ridiculous how bad EV prices are. They think 2 years of wages for a sedan with leather seats is reasonable
Ah you mean sedan with plastic seats :D
You can get a base Tesla model 3 for under 30k with the federal incentive right now. Go to the website if you don’t believe me.
People still don’t understand that EVs have a total cost of ownership that saves you 10-20k over the life of the vehicle compared to an ICE vehicle. Now the sticker prices are getting cheaper than ICE vehicles and people still can’t get past the expensive versions from a few years ago.
If you’re waiting for Ford to offer a sub 39k vehicle, you’re going to be waiting a while. They seem to be giving up on trying to get to scale on production and won’t bring costs down on the numbers they’re pumping.
Oh I’m not in the market, and that’s still a lot of money. Thanks for that, because someone will find it useful.
Do they even sell ice’s for that?
Average vehicle sale price in the US in 2023 was just under $48k… so only if you buy used.
Several brands have base models at ~20k plus tax. Nissan Sentra, Chevy Trax, etc…
despite our economic prosperity
Fuck you. I could barely afford a Honda Fit.
It’s the super wealthy that are being prosperous meanwhile the rest of us are getting fucked.
Meanwhile every EV on the market is sold as a luxury car and they can’t grok why the fuck nobody’s buying. Gee I fucking Wonder…
It was the largest auto I could afford](youtu.be/gkBqVVbnZ1c?si=7p5mJ5qpsgvNdC-3)
I like the car a lot but being 6’3 on long trips is not fin
More economical and practical than any electric car on the market lol. Too bad they stopped selling them in the states.
Car dealers are useless middlemen that should be put out of business.
I want an EV but the only affordable option is Chevy and somewhat the Nissan Leaf. Every other option is way to expensive. If my current car died, I guess I would buy one of them. But I’m going to drive it into ground or until sometime else affordable comes along.
I think driving your car to the ground is the most environment friendly approach anyway regardless of the type of car you’ll buy next.
On the other hand, I’d assumenifnthe old car is functional, they’d sell it to someone who would then “drive it to the ground” (or sells it to another). It’s environmentally friendly as long as the car is used by someone
With regular electronics you’d have a point.
But the thing with cars is that there is a giant aftermarket.
Basically, if someone buys a new one at the top, they sell their used car to someone else, who sells their car to someone else, who sells their car to someone else, … until one old mangled and polluting car at the bottom gets scrapped.
It may also have something to do with all the announcements about changing the charging port. I wouldn’t buy a car when I know they’re changing g that next year. I mean, it’s about time, but that’s going to deter buyers
I look forward to buying an EV with a usb-c charging port.
I am sure they come with carplay
That and the slow rollout the manufacturers have done in moving to EV.
When I bought my Volt 10 years ago, I knew more about the car than any of the dealer sales people. I doubt the situation has changed much. That being said, I would hesitate to recommend an EV to a non technically inclined person, because the charging situation is still rough even in CA. Stations are often broken, or the billing doesn’t work, or they are in inconvenient areas. Gas is still the idiot proof option. We will know we’re really in the future when you can go to most grocery stores or strip mall and charge with tap to pay (no stupid app to pre-configure). There has to be 95% reliability. Right now I’d say about 1/5 of stations I visit have something wrong with them in terms of no internet connection for billing, slow charging, illegible UV-damaged screen, or just outright broken hardware. heatmap.news/…/nema-14-50-mobile-charger-lucid-ai…
Standardization is the key.
Regulating that all petrol gas stations also have charging stations for electricity would be a step in the right direction. That way somebody will be on duty to deal with situations that you’ve mentioned above.
I believe in large the reason for all the malfunctions at charging stations is because they’re unmanned.
Stations are often broken, or the billing doesn’t work, or they are in inconvenient areas.
ICE vehicles suffer from the same problems, we’re just accustomed to them and understand how to work around the issues.
I wouldn’t say gas stations have the same frequency of problems honestly. 19 times out of 20, my gas is dispensed without issue. And I’m able to buy it without joining a program or going out of my way. Electric charging is not yet that convenient, and it should be.
Same situation, I have the bolt and volt cars and I drive about the same with the caveat that I coast more often to a stop and make full use of being plugged in at home for warming up or cooling down the car. Really, all you need to know about driving an ev or a hybrid. Everything else is just extra stuff to take care of and make better use of the dollar savings you get with an EV.
On the flipside, I know too many people who don’t care how hard they drive the accelerator and brakes that they would rather get a gas car because of how fast they consume and prioritize time spent fueling vs charging. Really, I save close to 2k/year more than those who drive semi efficiently, and about double that amount vs. the people who are economically irresponsible. Also, I meet a lot of tesla owners who do users using the tesla superchargers who are complaining about how garbage their battery life after 3 years of driving for Uber(20% of degradation). It makes sense why people don’t want to drive an EV. They just don’t want to slow their lives down. They want to constantly keep doing stuff and do it fast. It’s amazing how much instant gratification has made everyone’s lives worse. Even people like me who go slow have to deal with their BS.
I refuse to buy a DRM infested iPhone / un-rootable Android on wheels with data hoarding spyware and no access to service manuals, parts or service tools. Also decent build quality without excessive and inappropriate use of plastic. My car is a not a 10 year disposable item. ~< 2008 era cars for me.
What has that got to do with EVs?
I think he’s saying most EV’s are modern cars with this malicious tech. Personally just gonna avoid buying a car as long as I can
car dealers literally don’t need to exist and make the buying experience worse for everyone
Translation: Car dealers don’t make as much money from EV’s.
Car sales is a racket anyway, the dealers make too much money, the car manufacturers make too much money, and with the prospect of a new technology that costs more they’ve realised that they can’t charge as much more, meaning they profit less.
Price is not proportional to cost.
The biggest crime is the villainisation of haggling. Price must be negotiable for a system to remain fair.
Yeah, hate haggling. Never know if it is actually a good deal, and tracking prices and deals is so unreliable compared other goods with the way those have historic price tracking recorded on sites like camelcamelcamel or keepa. Keeps consumers in the dark with only a broad idea of what isn’t a scam price and making the experience as exhausting as possible to extract money from them.
If it’s cheaper than the list price, it’s at least a better deal.
Car sales is a racket anyway
Correction
Cars are a racket anyway
EV cars are better than ICE cars, but the biggest problems with cars are so much bigger than the type of engine they use. As grateful as I am for EV cars being a thing sometimes they just feel like a distraction from solving the actual fundamental issues around transportation.
A problem with EV is those cars are infected with DRM.
Remember tesla deactivate DLC ?
So don’t buy Tesla
Which EV manufacturer doesn’t use DRM or similar post-sale controls?
I’ve totally got the money to buy a new car. My 2005 forester is getting long in the tooth and i’m ready to replace it.
I want a smallish car with the same basic features: AWD, 4door, boxy rear so I can toss a full size mtn bike in there, good in the snow, etc.
My distinct impression is that the manufacturers want to sell high end (all the options and $$) but don’t give a shit about usability. Chevy volt comes close but can’t take a bike.
I wouldn’t exactly call any car that you can throw a full size mountain bike in the back a “small car.” I could barely do that with my old Subaru outback.
At this point in time, you’re going to be looking at a Kia Niro (sans awd), Subaru Solterra / Toyota Bz4x, plug-in hybrid Crosstrek, EV6, EV9, Ioniq 5, Volvo EX30, C40, XC40, Polestar 3, and Tesla model 3 and Y.
But really what you want to do is to put a hitch on the back with a hitch mounted bicycle rack. They cost about 4 to $500 for a full install and will let you carry a bike without needing a huge car.
Your other option of course is a pickup truck like a Rivian, Lightning or Cybertruck but those will set you back probably $75,000 to $100,000.
My 2005 forester is much smaller than many other cars out there. It takes a full size mtn bike just fine. The real key is the boxy shape. The EV9 is bigger but not by much and might be worth me checking out. thx.
I really appreciate having the bike inside after a ride allowing me to stop for food or an errand on the way home.
Just buy a toyota sienna and come over to the dark side.
the gentle sound of a smoooooth sliding door reveals an entire living room in the back of the minivan (what the hell how much space is there back there is that a pool table??), lounge music begins playing
come in… you know you want to
Look into a Leaf. I love mine. Hatchback trunk with fold down rear seats will fit you bike. I’ve had mine since 2019 and love it.
Yeah the options just don’t exist yet especially under $35k new what would you buy?
Hyundai Kona electric is a good option.
Are hybrids still a thing?
Yes the new Ford Maverick has a hybrid option and it’s been selling very well.
So well in fact that if you want one you probably can’t get one, unless you are willing to pay 20% over MSRP for a used one. And now for 2024, the hybrid drivetrain is no longer the standard and is instead a $2500 upgrade. I wanted one but honestly fuck Ford.
Saw a article of a pickup the other day that was an electric driven vehicle with limited miles and a diesal powered generator that would charge the battery. Total range was 500 or so. Wish I could remember what it was, it sounds like evidence of what you were looking for.
Wasn’t there a story like a week ago about dealers sabotaging EV sales?
Thank you!
A couple of them. This is more fuel to the dealership dumpster fire.
They refuse to learn about them and actively direct people to ICE vehicles. No shit they are having a ‘hard time’ selling them. They have tried less than nothing to sell them.
I have Ford hybrid manuals. It won't do you much good on the cost of the tools to work on them. Best advice on hybrids is to learn how to disconnect your battery before servicing your vehicle.
If you can afford the 3k tool then it is only 1k per year :D
“And then not only are EVs more expensive, but their own salespeople are untrained. They don’t even know how to answer most of the questions they get. A lot of them have 100–200 percent turnover of their sales staff in a given year,” Reigersman told me.
This seems not good. I might have been slightly more sympathetic to the dealers before reading this?
High turnover in sales has been common for forever in some dealerships. Many salesmen work only commission so they hire more than needed, don't train them and let anyone who doesn't meet quota go. Meeting quota is impossible because there are more salesmen than needed, and you need years to build up a following of loyal customers (most customers are not loyal no matter what you do, but the few who are go to the few long timers) . Non loyal customers like to think they are buying from the new salesman so long timers have a set of business cards without a name on them to hand out.
The above is what I remember from an Edmund's article from around 2000 when they hired a new writer and the first story was to get a job selling cars to find out what it was really like. I doubt much has changed. (Not all car sales are that way, but many are, and that is reflected in turnover)
Lol yeah, I've worked in a dealership. I was fine with it till my foreman got fired because he took all the blame from customers instead of staff.
Anyways when they were interviewing his replacement I started looking for a new job. I got into it with him because he wouldn't even listen to anyone talk about pay raises.
This year, 18% of all automobile sales worldwide were electric cars. In the US, that’s about 7%.
I agree with them but not for the reasons they would like, less pushing of EVs more pushing of good public transportation.
I’m not buying an EV not because of lack of infrastructure or lack of interest, but because the product sucks.
I’m not buying a gas car either for the same product sucking reason, and an active desire to never purchase a gas car again.
I just leased an Ioniq 6 from a Hyundai dealership end of October. The salesperson was great, but she didn’t know anything about EVs, especially their own. She even admitted it was the first one she’s sold.
I went back a week ago and found the same 5 Ioniq 6’s sitting there. I’m pretty sure they’ll stay there for quite a while.
Cause they are a shitty solution for most people. Folks have only been saying this 10 or so years now.
PHEV is a far better solution for most people and it’s easier to build more batteries to using less material.
car dealers bring as much value to society as landlords. it's a negative value.
Fellas, fellas, please. I assume you, I wouldn’t buy the gas one either.
Wow angling to pass lawyers are the most reviled profession in the country huh?
oh… no… nobody want to buy a car with small range for 3 times higher price?
Good - I’d rather more people try public transit, walking, or biking. And if you absolutely need to use a car, then advocate for better urban infrastructure because the US is waaaaaay too car-dependent and we need to start not being that way
This is the best summary I could come up with:
After making record profits in the wake of the pandemic and the collapse of just-in-time inventory chains, they’re now complaining that selling electric vehicles is too hard.
Almost 4,000 dealers from around the United States have sent an open letter to President Joe Biden calling for the government to slow down its plan to increase EV adoption between now and 2032.
More and more car buyers are opting to go fully electric each year, although even a record 2023 will fail to see EV uptake reach double-digit percentages.
Mindful of the fact that transportation accounts for the largest segment of US carbon emissions and that our car-centric society encourages driving, the US Department of Energy published a proposed rule in April that would alter the way the government calculates each automaker’s corporate average fuel efficiency.
Over the summer, industry analysts at Cox Auto made plenty of headlines with data showing that new EV inventory was growing.
Helpfully, the dealers published a complete list of the 3,882 signatories, making it very easy for people to see which businesses are opposing action on climate change.
The original article contains 586 words, the summary contains 183 words. Saved 69%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
We bought an EV recently and the dealership told us the Market Adjustment was the easiest thing to negotiate away.
They need to boost the amount of parts produced in the US so they’ll qualify for the rebate.
pigup@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There’s a huge wave of anti ev propaganda coming out. Beware.
kameecoding@lemmy.world 1 year ago
but anti-EV is kinda pro enviromental in this case, since we shouldn’t be pushing EVs on everyone, we should be pushing for an excellent public transportation network.
ASeriesOfPoorChoices@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We can do both.
lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 year ago
Individuals can choose to drive an EV. They generally can’t choose to upgrade public transit to serve more people.