Submitted 1 day ago by CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net to australia@aussie.zone
Support for violence to resist feminism was highest among adolescent boys (28%), followed closely by adolescent girls (21%).
Perhaps most alarming: roughly 40% of boys aged 13 to 17 agreed that women lie about domestic and sexual violence.
These results raise crucial questions going forward. We don’t yet know how these views have changed over time, whether they are on the rise and what the links are between violent extremism and the negative treatment of women.
How many of them believe that everyone lies?
“women lie about DV…”, will go both ways. You will also find some that are in those conditions and will not tell others or even try to hide it (for what reasons, I can’t really tell).
Until we know about the actual wording of the survey, there is no way to tell what exactly they are interpreting.
I also have a feeling that the people who conducted the survey, might be misinterpreting the answers.
the banner photo has them looking like thugs, so you think the article has a slant about how young men are evil?
I’d say a truly equal condition would be when the women feel like they have the freedom to not date anyone. But due to how expectations work, I feel like that would be hard to happen for anyone in that age group.
I have found it, in general, rare for people to get to live their life by their own thoughts and not be swayed by fads in media. At the same time, that is one trait I consider important for anyone to not have to regret their decisions.
Where are you even getting this? This is a deranged reading of this article.
Cite one part of this that is framing one gender as being essentially evil. It’s very clear that it is recognizing a troubling trend vs condemning a gender. You’re clearly reacting to something that isn’t in this article.
Yeah I’m curious how it was asked.
Cause of course women get abused that 100% is true, but there are definitely some women who lie about it. How many? Who knows. I would like to say only a few but I have no data to support it, I can only say it’s most likely non-zero.
Misogyny is certainly a huge issue among young men.
I’m not sure about this research though. It’s always concerning when they don’t publish the actual data and questions et cetera.
Perhaps most alarming: roughly 40% of boys aged 13 to 17 agreed that women lie about domestic and sexual violence.
This one really, really depends on the question. Both men and women often lie and say that their partner doesn’t hit them. This is pretty well known actually. You’d have to be pretty naive to think it doesn’t happen.
Occasionally I’m sure that both men and women do lie and say that their partner does hit them, for a variety of complex reasons. An acquaintance of mine, a woman, signed a declaration to say that her partner hit her and then during court proceedings she admitted that was a false statement. Uh oh. Anyhow, it’s certainly a thing that happens.
Does that mean all women who claim to be victims of domestic abuse are liars? Certainly not. But are lies told about domestic violence? Of course.
Support for violence to resist feminism was highest among adolescent boys (28%), followed closely by adolescent girls (21%).
This is also curious. Obviously alarming, but how does one use violence to resist feminism? I’m genuinely confused as to what is meant by this. If you had asked 15 year old me, not really knowing what feminism is, I would have assumed it meant some kind of armed uprising of women, and yeah I would have said that in that context violence is ok.
Some respondents justified violence in the private sphere. If a woman disobeys in the home, a man should be able to control her with violence.
I notice that this fiery little truth bomb is tempered to “some respondents”. How many is some? I guess 2 at least.
Again, misogyny is a huge problem. It would be extraordinarily difficult to be a female teacher. My son is too young to have encountered this stuff but it’s definitely on my mind as we navigate the coming years. However, I think this article is intended to be incendiary rather than tease out the nuance revealed by their “research”.
Absolutely, I was so frustrated that I couldn’t find the data. They didn’t show their working so all I have to go on in terms of believing them is their reputation.
This was a preview summary of the data that’s awaiting publication by the University of Melbourne. It covered 1,100 people aged 13-17, and has been written by some Professor of Educational Psychology & Learning, Faculty of Education, The University of Melbourne.
Right so that’s who did the research but it doesn’t show the results or their methodology. These are super important things to know!
At that age young men usually have no concept of violence rooted in reality at any significant numbers. So they assume young girls their ages mostly don’t experience violence while thinking violence is the thing from movies and they are ready to dole that out for things that they don’t agree with because they think they can change the world overnight at any price.
So asking this group of people is a challenge in of itself. The data and questions are missing, so I call incitement here in service of distracting from the class war and call it a day.
Maybe call the class war the Epstein wars in the future, I think it has a ring to it.
I agree with you, and want to add that parents need to do better about addressing this issue as well. There are a million opportunities, every day, to demonstrate heathy gender roles and start conversations about role expectations with your child.
This one really, really depends on the question. Both men and women often lie and say that their partner doesn’t hit them. This is pretty well known actually. You’d have to be pretty naive to think it doesn’t happen.
I’ve never been hit by a romantic partner. You’re saying that being hit in a relationship is common?
No, im saying that amongst people who have been hit by a partner, they often lie and say that they have not.
i’m a man and i’ve been hit by several partners. both long term and short term.
i end the relationship when it happens, but it certainly happens.
it means beat the shit out of people for having different beliefs than you.
If they word it like they did in the article I think asking their research question (asked to kids) was itself reinforcing a harmful understanding of gender and the kind of characteristics that can be applied to them. Individuals lie. Entire genders do not. Basically nothing applies across the entire category. In high school (the age of a lot of these respondents) they teach you to watch out for tricky multiple choice questions that sneak in an over inclusive option.
I need to know, how that question was phrased, otherwise that 40% number is completly meaningless. The two extremes would be “Do you think a woman has ever lied about domestic and sexual violence?”, or “Do you think all reports by a woman of domestic and sexual violence are a lie?”. In the first case a significant share would answer yes, because a single false claim ever makes that statement correct. The opposite is true for the second phrasing, where a single correct claim makes that statement false. The real phrasing is probably somewhere in between, but even then you could heavily influence the outcome with subtle changes to the phrasing.
The answer is obvious!
If you ask someone who answers “yes” to “do you think all women lie about domestic and sexual violence?” the question “has anyone ever reported you for sexual violence?” Will inevitably be “yes” also!
That’s not the question that was asked. You snuck an “all” in there to make it sound more ridiculous and uncreditable.
The question as phrased in the article simply says “do you think women lie about dv/sa.” It’s vague and open to interpretation, which is why it’s bad research methodology. But it’s more likely to be interpreted as “do you think any woman lies/has lied about dv/sa,” and because absolute statements are easily negated, the obvious answer to that question is yes. Otherwise you would have to claim “No woman ever lies or has ever lied about dv/sa,” and that’s patently false.
But you can go ahead and accuse everyone who questions the research methodology of a poorly-written survey of having committed sexual violence. That only provides an example proving that “Yes, some women lie about it.”
Downvoting not because the topic is unimportant but because the new study is run by this news agency without publishing their questions or methodology. That seems like running for a headline with little concern for accuracy or scientific methods. I could be wrong but until they are more open we don’t know
Here is a related study with clearer methodology and survey questions, but it does bundle countries in its age cohort breakdown:
Downvoting not because the topic is unimportant but because the new study is run by this news agency
Which “news agency” are you referring to?
The Conversation
At least the article, published in The Conversation, wrote “we” a lot when talking about data interpretation and I saw no reference to any other researchers
Read the comments in this thread, read this:
“Social research has shown boys and men increasingly feel alienated, humiliated or uncertain about their place in the world.”
We just need to call young men stupid one more time guys and gender equality will be achieved. No wonder they feel their being lied to.
The number of people jumping in to call adolescent boys morons for having a slightly higher response rate to a very poorly framed question is ridiculous.
The idiots here are the people who wrote the survey.
Of course women lie about domestic violence.
They lie to protect themselves. They lie out of fear.
Some women, though a vanishingly small minority, lie to weaponise the legal system against their partner.
Labelling this acknowledgment of reality, which has nuance to it, as extremist is just going to make more young men hostile to feminism.
Yeah from how it has been worded “has there ever been a woman that lies about sexual assault” is a valid interpretation of the prompt and unsurprisingly anyone interpreting it that way will answer “yes, absolutely.” Who knows how many of those people actually harbour misogynistic beliefs though.
Training boys to be douchebags is why this is happening.
Yeah they’re being courted by the far right because the far right aren’t calling them idiots. Really not that hard to grasp.
‘Teenage boys should get to say wildly misogynistic things with no social repercussions’ is absolutely not how you wind up with men who have normal relationships with women.
Or…. ‘Teenage boys repeating the lies they been told by only group not shaming them for existing.’
They are victims of the circumstances, but because they are male, too many people act like its it’s okay to blame them.
Lemmy’s gender-imbalance is clear in the comment section of this thread. We’re getting some variety of opinions, but a pretty obviously narrow frame of reference - and that kind of sucks.
I see comments ranging across the spectrum. Some uncritically accepting the interpretations in the article and calling the respondents nazis, others questioning the research methodology such as how exactly those survey questions were phrased and whether the response simply boils down to negating an absolute.
That might be called many things, but I wouldn’t call it a narrow frame of reference.
That might be called many things, but I wouldn’t call it a narrow frame of reference.
Call it whatever you like. In my post I said we had a variety of opinions but a narrow frame of reference. Maybe there’s a better choice of words, I don’t know. But I think it’s is bleedingly obviously that there are few, if any, women posting in this thread. That’s all I’m talking about.
I’m not talking about specific views, or type of pushback, or argument, or saying anyone is ‘wrong’, or anything like that. The men here clearly have different backgrounds and values - but they are still all commenting on this issue from a male frame of reference. That imbalance is very clear to me while reading the comments. I think it is probably clear to you as well. And I personally think it is unhealthy for the community to have such a large gender imbalance.
There is a lot more than could be said about this, but all I’m saying right now is I can see a large gender imbalance in this thread, and I don’t think that’s a good thing.
the problem with gender crap like this is people typically have their own frame of reference of one sex is bad, the other good, and interpret everything through that lens.
they fail to see that either sex can be shitty. and that gender war stuff just reinforces and inflates people’s generalizations about the other sex. 10 years ago people didn’t think this way other than extremists… now it seems the majority of people have adopted extremist sexist positions thank to social media shit.
Every now and then we’re reminded that a large number of people on lemmy were kicked off of Reddit because they were gamergate type people.
@CurlyWurlies4All @Fleur_ @Fishnoodle after reading all the comments here, only 1 person commented on the what I think is the reason they published this article.
The fact that social media influencers are driving a wedge between boy and girls.
And the solution....
That attitudes can be changed with education shifts, and some success is being had in Australian schools.
To me the article was to deliver the message. Social media for kids is bad. Changing the curriculum is a good thing.
I genuinely question if this is some sort of trend and not just how it has always been.
Cuz 40% of teenage boys being idiots seems kind of timeless.
Right from the start I will state I know the plural of anecdote isn’t evidence. But I have a friend who has given up teaching year 11/12 athletic development and now teaches grade 7 pe. Primary reason is the mysoginistic shit she had to put up with from the boys who felt their gender made them better at anything sports related than her. She would compete in triathlon in her spare time with all the training & commitment that entails, and yet the podgy, vaping 18yo man children would tell jokes with each other about how she should go back to the kitchen “where she belongs”.
When we were discussing this amongst a group that included 3 other female teachers every one of them agreed they are seeing more of that sort of crap every year. My guess would be all the Manosphere brainrot is having an affect. Couple that with kids around that age feeling the urge to be as edgy as possible…
I have noticed once or twice that my sons have started talking that way due to a combination of online and peer influence and I have stepped in to disabuse them of the notion that their chromosomes make them special or superior. But it’s the world they live in and I pity the kids without a parent who is keeping any eye on them.
Thank you for being the kind of parent the world should have more of. Kids are dumb but curious by nature, and need a guiding hand to direct them away from misinformation, propaganda, and other toxic things they have no way to discern from truth before they have the experience to tell them apart.
You’re right. I guess I was just following the same train of thought as the whole, “There were not less autistics before the internet.” logic.
I only have male friends who teach but they all agree that critical thinking and cognitive function in general have plummeted. And we’re in Canada!
No, I just question the methodology and the message they’re trying to send
It would have been really great if they linked a detailed breakdown of the information gathered in the article. Swear to god every article that says “we did a study” never show the fucking study. Like come on let me see the data.
The amount of women who lie about violence against them is probably a lot higher than that, and the lie is that it’s not happening to them.
Had me in the first half.
Just remember, folks, divide & conquer is the oldest trick in the book.
They want us fighting the culture wars so we don’t fight the class war.
Yep this is classic rage bait media.
The culture of misogyny vs the culture of “oh dear, we’re failing our kids and need to do better”?
This is a stupid take.
This is a peer-reviewed well-designed study by an expert in their field. Not a Ben Shapiro video.
If it’s a peer-reviewed study, would you mind linking the actual study? Because it doesn’t seem to be published; i.e., hasn’t been peer-reviewed yet.
If it’s well-designed, then surely the survey questions will stand up to scrutiny, correct?
The OP didn’t link to a peer-reviewed well-designed study. They linked to a “news” article that purports to relay the information from the study, but no doubt presents much of it out of context and to an audience who lack the expertise to really understand it.
I was referring to men vs. women, or gays vs. straights, or residents vs. immigrants, or any one of the hundred other arbitrary divisions being constantly foisted onto us.
The study may well be measuring these divisions, or their effects, but that’s not my point at all.
I don’t think that a poll which indicates that one in five girls supports violence to resist feminism should be interpreted without any reservations, as this article seems to be doing. The number of adolescents who support endorsing violence in order to mess with uptight pollsters is apparently quite high…
As for lying - it’s a matter of fact that people, including women making accusations of serious crimes, sometimes lie. Maybe there’s more to the question than is presented in the article?
Just a reminder that this is a summary of an academic paper by a reputable University.
In our research, we differentiate between interpersonal experiences, anchored in close relationships, and intergroup conflict that has generated a sense of “us” versus “them”: men versus women. We then examine how this intergroup social conflict is driving radicalisation.
Okay so what are the real numbers on what proportion of women lie about domestic or sexual violence?
The evidence presented to the South Australian Royal Commission found that false reports of sexual or domestic violence are rare, likely under about 5% of reported cases, and the Commission treats the belief that false allegations are common as a misconception not supported by research.
So if we only have a yes/no response available for the question “do women lie about domestic violence?” the answer is… yes.
We haven’t seen what the study actually asked or the options they allowed for in the response.
The article is worthless without being able to review the actual study.
That’s up to 5% of reported cases. How many false accusations actually make it to a formal complaint, rather than simply circulating the rumor mill? If your intent is character assassination, you wouldn’t expose your accusations to scrutiny by bringing it to court.
Also, 1 in 20 is a huge number when you consider how many reported cases there are. That is by no means “rare.” Quite common, actually.
Under 5% is not rare. Certainly not rare enough to justify the comments in this thread.
5% is insanely high, I expected much lower 💀
I don’t think I’ve seen a study with solid methodology break 5%, and it’s usually in the 1-2% range.
I think the 1-2% number is proven false allegations. That’s a much higher bar.
I’ve had the lies bestowed upon me twice. So I can vouch 100% to this being a truth.
“Teenage boys are fucking morons”.
Groundbreaking research.
More than 17% of all Australians agree feminism should be resisted with violence.
This stat in itself is wild. 1 in 6 Australians think feminists should be physically attacked. Who are these psychopaths? Which part of our society has let us down so badly and how do we fix it?
“40% of teenage boys are violent brainwashed sexists” fixed that statement.
In properly conducted studies, with investigations, 50% of rape reports to police are false. Me too was one of most hateful/evil propaganda campaigns. Good that society and teens would become more aware of this.
The concerning thing to me is not the numbers themselves but the way kids with no other obvious connections to hate (e.g. my father is a wife-beating neo-Nazi) are developing these belief systems through unrestricted exposure to the internet. It’s part of a much bigger problem that includes things like religious extremism and racism. In many cases they aren’t going out of their way to find these rabbit holes, either. Social media algorithms recommend Andrew Tate type shit and then bombard their feed with even more of that stuff after the first watch, and adults would never know until the kid gets to the point where it’s developed into a core life philosophy for them and is affecting their real world behaviour. This can happen at any age, of course, but it’s just sadder to me when it’s young, impressionable minds that are being taken advantage of.
How cute, they’re the fucking nazis of tomorrow. Bitchslap 'em to the ground and tell them they’re lying when they start crying, that’ll teach them to discard other people’s truth.
I mean the world would be a much better place if they were only lying. Unfortunately not.
Nath@aussie.zone 1 day ago
Holy engagement bait, Batman! What a terrible headline.
Yes, it is a fact that women lie about domestic and sexual violence. I’ve seen first-hand a family seriously impacted by a false accusation. The son was detained in prison for a year, the parents took out a mortgage on their home to defend the case and finally the girl admitted in court that she fabricated the whole thing. The son was acquitted. These cases happen. Here’s a fairly broad paper on the matter discussing several deeper studies spanning several countries including Australia, Canada and the UK.
With that out of the way, let’s move on to the elephant in the room:
IN OVER 90% OF CASES, THE RAPES WERE CREDIBLE! FALSE ACCUSATIONS ARE THE EXCEPTION!!
ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Tbf that’s lies that make it to court, I’ve been lied about and had friends also be lied about, but the girls (we were all kids at the time) didn’t take it to court, they just tried to assassinate our character and get us shunned for life by everyone we knew without involving the system that would make them prove anything.
Thankfully in my case I had witnesses and in my buddy’s he had an alibi, but still, it’s a pretty rude thing to lie about. But I think most of the lies shake out like that, they usually don’t get reported to the actual authorities, just circulated like a rumor.
ozymandias@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
this is why i hate the “believe women” thing….
the problem was people not believing women by default… that’s objectively terrible.
doing the exact opposite is also terrible.
(i’ve seen a false accusation too… i also know of people who were SA’d with no investigation and nobody caring)
i’ve also never heard of someone being prosecuted for a false accusation either… it’s all terrible
Imhotep@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Were there consequences for the accuser?
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Almost nothing. Feminist organisations lobby hard to ensure there are no consequences because “it might discourage real victims from coming forward.” They don’t care how many men have their lives ruined.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
I had an accuser in college who got kicked out after she accused multiple other men and it was investigated and the cops got involved.
Donjuanme@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Too many perpetrators go unpunished, unfortunately one side of the equation has a much larger multiplier than the other,
Nath@aussie.zone 23 hours ago
So far as I know, nothing (legally). She wasn’t on trial. Something may have happened to her later, but I don’t think so. I think I’d have heard if it had.
Of course: everyone who knew her knew about the whole case and its outcome. It would be an inaccurate statement to say she faced no consequences at all. Everyone - male and female alike, was furious with her. And I expect the story follows her around 20 years later whenever anyone Google’s her.
zaphod@sopuli.xyz 21 hours ago
AFAIK usually not directly, but wrongful accusers sometimes get sued back for defamation.
Randelung@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
Engagement shit like this is so dangerous. Impressionable minds in the target demographic will read the headline and be pushed towards radicalization against women because “apparently it’s worse than I thought”.
zaphod@sopuli.xyz 21 hours ago
I would see a headline like this push people more towards radicalisation against young men, not against women.
Bratosch@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Wait, I’m probably restarted for not understanding it but does the author claim that 10.9% to 2.1% is ‘consistent’?
Nath@aussie.zone 1 day ago
The full paper would give better context of that statement. It’s quite accessible and worth reading. The thing that is consistent across all studies, nations and decades is that false accusations are rare.
It turns out this is actually a fairly difficult topic to accurately measure if for no other reason that a lot of cases (Particularly earlier ones) boil down to ‘he said, she said’. Then there is the matter that lots of sexual assault cases go unreported - or are dropped for assorted reasons. Unreported assaults are a huge factor among certain cultural groups.