Your car has a series of numbers and letters on the back of it that are unique to the vehicle, and can be used to track you as well. There are even automated cameras that can do this.
Tracking a vehicle is easy, and always has been.
Your car’s tire sensors could be used to track you
Submitted 20 hours ago by Beep@lemmus.org to technology@lemmy.world
https://networks.imdea.org/your-cars-tire-sensors-could-be-used-to-track-you/
Comments
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 12 hours ago
FireRetardant@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
However, the researchers found that these tire sensors also send a unique ID number in clear, unencrypted wireless signals, meaning that anyone nearby with a simple radio receiver can capture the signal, and recognize the same car again later
Its not quite the same ball game. Sure its not great that the government can track easily with ALPRs, but this type of tracking if available to nearly anyone and could be used for significant crimes like stalking or human trafficking. It can also be done without a sightline of the car, unlike a camera system.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 11 hours ago
Yeah, it should be fixed, but still… Of all possible evil ways to track, this is one of the lesser ones.
Paradox@lemdro.id 18 hours ago
Your license plate can also be used to track you
NarrativeBear@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
You are correct, the only thing worth mentioning is when the laws were created/written it did not account for someone creating a database that is easily searchable/queried to infer all these extra habits of people.
Its one thing visually seeing someone over and over walk or drive by your house while you sit on your porch. It’s another thing to now know where they came from and where they went if you were able to sit on every porch at the same time in a town or city.
This is why police tails need to be granted by a judge, but a interconnected network of cameras at the moment does not recieve the same scrutiny.
FireRetardant@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
I think part of why the cameras don’t have such scrutiny is the city often has signs stating they use the cameras and will list their locations. This gives a somewhat implied consent from the driver, idk if it holds up in court but its similar to a sign at a store saying you’re on CCTV. The sign doesn’t say the CCTV could be used to track and monitor you but its implied.
plateee@piefed.social 9 hours ago
They mention this in the article. The difference is that since the tire sensor sends out an RF signal, direct line of sight isn’t necessary. You could throw a tracker up on a roof and grab signals from a block over.
The missing part may be tying that signal to a specific car, but say your car gets pulled over - they could read your tires’ sensor ID and compare it to where they captured it and bam! Now you’re fucked.
Foofighter@discuss.tchncs.de 14 hours ago
Dude, my car has GPS and a 4G internet connection as well as my android phone and my work required iPhone … In a world like this, Tyre sensors are probably not required to track me.
BeardedBlaze@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
On the other hand, my 21 year old vehicle has none of it, and my GrapheneOS phone isn’t tracking me either. We didn’t all just give up like you did.
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
I spoke with my landlord about removing power to the home security cameras, because they were Ring. He obliged my request, but I later discovered that he (in private) regards my preference as that of a rebellious teenager in need of a cause. I had to let that sink in… I’m a rebel without a cause because I don’t sip from the same koolaid as he does. Wow.
Foofighter@discuss.tchncs.de 4 hours ago
Maybe I should’ve paid >10.000 in spares plus labour for a car I originally spend 21.000 for 8 years ago to buy diesel for for about 2€ per liter rather than switching to an ev for the privilege of ne being tracked rather than “giving up”.
Foofighter@discuss.tchncs.de 4 hours ago
I assume your old vehicle also doesn’t have any type pressure sensors?
Ulrich@feddit.org 13 hours ago
Does your GrapheneOS phone have a SIM? Because if not, the cell towers are collecting and storing your location.
FireWire400@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
You can bask in the glory of knowing that you’re better than anyone else. I myself aren’t paranoid enough to really care.
Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works 12 hours ago
It also had a numberplate, I assume?
Adalast@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
The point on this is the cars are broadcasting the numbers. Imagine your license plate including a loud speaker that shouted it’s number while the car was running. Tracking via plate requires line of sight. Tracking it in an automated way requires a good high speed camera, text analysis computer vision to log the vehicles, and storage for all of the images. In contrast, this signal is a repeating unencrypted broadcast. I could build a Raspberry Nano device that I can sit next to an intersection and capture the numbers of every vehicle that drives by. It is also just presumably storing the number and time, so years of tracking data could be managed with a gig or two of storage.
This is absolutely a threat, and I am surprised it is not actively exploited by companies like Walmart to track every vehicle which drives by their stores and enters their parking lots. Hell, Amazon has enough vehicles out driving around that they could pretty effectively generate profiles for every vehicle in a town just by equipping their trucks with scanners and compiling the data into a behavior analysis system. Every car which drives past is read and stored. It is truly worrying.
WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works 11 hours ago
GPS in itself does not do anything, as it does not send, only receive. but even for mobile data, on your phone you have the choice to turn on airplane mode to disable communications. on your car, there’s nothing like it.
also, arguably iphones are more private than any internet connected car.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
A local city proudly mentioned on the news that they had a system that could track TPMS sensors. Pretty much all cars after 2008 uses TPMS sensors that each broadcast a unique identifier to the car. They aren’t hard to remove, and you can buy valve stems that fit your car (0.452 hole) at any auto parts store.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
By “aren’t hard to remove” you actually mean requires dismounting the tire from the rim, remounting it, and then balacing it. This is far beyond the capabilities not to mention equipment of the typical layperson. Plus, your state is likely to conveniently fail your car on its next inspection for a nonfunctioning TPMS system, same as your check engine light.
If you’re going to go the distance anyway, get your tire shop to mount aftermarket Autel sensors in your rims. Using the readily available diagnostic tool, you can occasionally reprogram those (wirelessly!) with a set of random IDs and then also program your car to use them. You’ll be a lot tougher to track if your signature is different every week.
I’m not about to do this just yet, but I do have the tool for more mundane purposes and I only paid around $200 for it several years ago.
Grostleton@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 hours ago
It seems most states with mandatory vehicle inspections don’t fail for TPMS problems.
Broken@lemmy.ml 6 hours ago
Well crap, that’s not a cheap solution but I’m glad you commented because I didn’t know these Autel sensors existed and that you could reprogram them. I mean, this threat is semi hypothetical right now (not like it’s been used in the wild by authorities or anything) but one day it might be. Continual reprogramming would be a valid solution.
hector@lemmy.today 18 hours ago
State inspection of your vehicle? Wtf? I’ve heard of California with catalytic converters because the smog, that’s it. I
grue@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Plus, your state is likely to conveniently fail your car on its next inspection
Your who is going to do what now?
(Posted from a state that doesn’t check anything except emissions, and even then only for some cars in some urban areas.)
CADmonkey@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
It certainly doesn’t require removing the tire from the rim. I removed each wheel, broke the bead on the side that has the valve stem, pried the tire back away from the rim, remove the sensor (mine had a convenient little part you can push to release them) then air the tire back up and put the wheel back on the car. Didn’t even have to re-balance them.
If we want to take steps to protect ourselves from such tracking, we cannot afford to simply say “It’s ToO hArD!!!1!” with a multi-paragraph reply that took more time to type out than it took for me to remove one sensor. Can’t do it? Learn how. Defeatist replies belong on Reddit with all the other propaganda.
Ulrich@feddit.org 20 hours ago
Yeah, a couple problems with that:
- You’re going to have a tire pressure light on forever.
- There’s a reason these are mandated. They’re critical safety (and efficiency) systems.
Older cars use a wheel speed sensor-based TPMS. It’s not as effective or reliable but it also doesn’t emit any signals that can be read by other devices.
ragepaw@lemmy.ca 20 hours ago
I managed to drive cars for 30 years without a TPMS sensor and the only time I ever had a to check the pressure on a tire, was when I knew i had a leak and didn’t have time to fix it. I can also tell by the way my car drives if a tire is soft. I also had an air pump in my car powered by a cigarette lighter adapter that I could fill my tires.
My current car, from 2019 doesn’t have one. I’ve managed to own it 7 years (this week) without needing to check the pressure 2500 times.
The assertion you need to check your pressure everyday without a TPMS system is ridiculous.
yucandu@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I live in Canada and my snow tires haven’t had functioning TPMS in years. I do have a tire pressure light on forever, and they’re not mandated.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
1.) Lol, no I won’t. That light can be removed. Or if it’s a Ford, you can access the vehicle with Forscan and turn off that functionality.
2.) How did we ever survive before 2008? Were there disabled cars with shredded tires every 20 feet? Was it an apocalypse of failed tires? People who don’t bother to check tire pressure won’t bother for yet another warning light on their dash.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
They aren’t hard to remove, and you can buy valve stems that fit your hole at any auto parts store.
Good to know.
Ulrich@feddit.org 20 hours ago
They are hard to remove, and require a variety of expensive specialty tools to do properly.
rumba@lemmy.zip 11 hours ago
License Plates, Vin Numbers clearly available on the dash, Tire Sensors, Bluetooth MAC, WIFI MAC, Cellular IDs for most even if you don’t pay for the service.
It’s an interesting thing to point out, but we’re mostly driving around with much higher power sensors than the pressure sensors.
chillpanzee@lemmy.ml 11 hours ago
Not to mention the cell phone most of us carry.
Doomsider@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Jokes on them, those tire pressure sensors are the first thing I don’t replace. I just visually check my tires and put a pressure gauge on them if they look suspect.
how_we_burned@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
Or just replace your tyres with ones with non sensor.
That said it is a little annoying. My dash is forever telling me it can’t talk to the tyres.
RattlerSix@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
They discovered a thing that everyone’s known forever. Here’s Bruce Schneier in 2008
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 13 hours ago
Yep. I remember watching a documentary on how to disappear. Car tires and windshields were both covered, because they can contain traceable technology.
GamingChairModel@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
Because each sensor broadcasts a fixed unique ID, the same car can be recognized repeatedly without reading a license plate. This makes TPMS-based tracking cheaper, harder to detect, and more difficult to avoid than camera-based surveillance, and therefore a stronger privacy threat.
This seems like a real stretch.
Cameras and automated license plate recognition are absurdly cheap at this point. And cameras have much greater range and reliability than whatever wireless signal interception this is, which the researchers have said is effective up to 50 meters.
Meanwhile, from the office where I sit (which happens to be more than 50 meters above street level), I can see a highway and read the license plates of all the cars maybe 100-300m away. Plug in a cheap phone as a simple webcam and I can probably log all the license plates that drive by, maybe even correlate that to makes and models of vehicles for redundancy.
And who’s going to detect that I’ve got a cell phone camera pointed out of my office window, or that I’m running that type of image recognition on the phone?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 15 hours ago
This seems like a real stretch.
TPMS signals are too weak to read even 6 ft from the wheels.
ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works 13 hours ago
No they aren’t. Out of curiosity I setup an rtlsdr and connected it via RTL-HAOS to my home assistant server.
The antenna is in the middle of my house and over the last month I have logged over 200 different tire pressure sensor id’s
innermachine@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Thank you. Nobody is tracking your car from the fucking tpms sensors, they’ll just use ur phone or GPS for God’s sake 😂 hell if u put tpms sensors in backwards that’s enough for the car not to read them. Another nothing burger.
Raglesnarf@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
among the hundreds of other things that “could be tracking me”
at this point I wouldn’t be surprised if my inner most thoughts weren’t already uploaded to some giant government server.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
James Brown, in his later years, believed he was being surveilled by electronic devices in his teeth. When we read “that’s a thing” next year and no one acts surprised you can forgive him his PCP usage.
hector@lemmy.today 18 hours ago
Bro, ongoing government surveillance. No one should be surprised by that now. The mask is off.
sturmblast@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Theres a spy device in your pocket.
psoul@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
Flock in a few months: “introducing a license plate reader that doesn’t need to see the license plate. The magnet leaf you got on Amazon to get through red light cameras won’t be enough to fool our dystopian surveillance system anymore”
ebolapie@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Flock right now advertises that they can track vehicles by bumper stickers and cosmetic damage.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 16 hours ago
TIL that these sensors transmitted via a wireless signal rather than being hardwired. I’ve never heard of them needing to be replaced due to dead batteries.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 15 hours ago
TPMS batteries last a long time because they are transponders, they use very little energy, but they eventually die.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
The batteries last about 10 years.
FireRetardant@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
The system required to make them hard wired would be immensely over complicated to allow the wheels to still turn. Where ever the wire exits would also have been additional point for leaks to occur.
Cort@lemmy.world 15 hours ago
I’ve had one die, and just waited to replace it until I needed new tires. It was like $100 extra to replace all 4, so I don’t have to worry for another decade
n3m37h@sh.itjust.works 20 hours ago
Yeah, I dont have any, nice try
Beep@lemmus.org 20 hours ago
Any car or any tire?
n3m37h@sh.itjust.works 17 hours ago
tire sensors
eleitl@lemmy.zip 19 hours ago
Unfortunately, I do. And they lock you in to licensed vendors just for your seasonal tyre change.
Looks like my next car is going to be an antique.
Bytemeister@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Wonder what kind of car you have, because my last 2 cars had a procedure to train/program a new TPMS, and some cars (according to Google) will automatically learn new sensors after about 20 minutes of driving.
spizzat2@lemmy.zip 18 hours ago
Jokes on them. My TPMS sensors died a while ago, and I haven’t felt the need to fix it.
Now I’m a ghost! /s
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
The rfid tag is probably still good and whatever is on the receiving end isn’t working.
spizzat2@lemmy.zip 15 hours ago
It seems that the system is not RFID or passive, but an active system that requires a battery to transmit data. It’s far more likely that the batteries, which typically lasts about the length of time I’ve owned my car, are just drained.
Tim_Bisley@piefed.social 18 hours ago
I bought cheap tires from Walmart for both cars and the toms failed on both cars.
mkwt@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
Eh, the fucking cellular modems in my car that stream the camera data for training can be used to track me. Hell, the anti theft tracker that I paid money for can be used to track me.
ThePantser@sh.itjust.works 20 hours ago
Ha the undisableable built in gps does that much better.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 19 hours ago
I made sure my car doesn’t come with a cellular modem. But I didn’t knew about the pressure sensors.
FrowingFostek@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Ha, they’ll have to install working sensors on mine first 😈
LemmiChanga@programming.dev 20 hours ago
My truck hasn’t been able to communicate with my tire pressure sensors for years, I’m not worried about mine.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 19 hours ago
Your car insurance might be interested to know this fact.
cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 18 hours ago
They would be. That’s why you don’t tell them. If you’re treating your insurance company as your friend not an adversary, you probably don’t understand how their profits grow year over year.
SharkAttak@kbin.melroy.org 11 hours ago
Oh wow, even more reasons to hold onto my old but not enshITtified baby!
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 17 hours ago
Motorcycles stay winning.
CADmonkey@lemmy.world 14 hours ago
Unless you’ve got some expensive whizh-bang Harley or BMW.
br0da@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
I’m tired, boss.
i_am_tired_boss@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Hey, that’s my line.
ieGod@lemmy.zip 4 hours ago
Exhausted.