Their arguments are kind of lame. To install APKs from outside the store is already an involved process that generally makes it harder for the uninformed to sideload. Make sideloading a bit harder, but possible. My xiaomi makes me wait and read warnings before installing APKs, for example.
Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed - Louis Rossmann
Submitted 2 weeks ago by rustyredox@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://youtube.com/watch?v=QBEKlIV_70E
Comments
elucubra@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Side loading will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
circledot@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
[Installing software] will still be possible but the apps themselves will need to be signed by the developer through Google, so Google ultimately still controls what can be installed. Maybe someone will crack it.
Fixed that for you :-)
devfuuu@lemmy.world [bot] 2 weeks ago
It’s a great way to workaround them being forced to open the ecosystem a little and allowing alternative stores and that stuff. It only took more than a decade, they obviously not happy about it, so gotta screw people in another way.
LiveLM@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
“Uugfhh, but the users don’t read the warnings!! They just click yes until it works!!”
And that is my problem because??? For fucks sake
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 2 weeks ago
But this process impacts other stores, too, like FDroid.
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I know it’s not really ready for it yet, but I guess I’m gonna be looking into a Linux phone before I thought I would.
SoleInvictus@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Same, though this will be the push the community needs to really launch a Linux phone. It’ll suck for awhile, but I’m looking forward to debating phone distros with all of you.
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sorry it took so long to reply, I was waiting for Gentoo to finish compiling on my phone.
chellomere@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m using arch mobile btw
pogmommy@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I use Debian as my daily driver and am disappointed to see that the best-supported devices under Mobian within my budget are the Pinephone (which has shockingly low specs) or the Pinephone Pro (recently discontinued, no longer sold. Also had poor specs).
I was toying with was getting an SBC with an LTE/5G hat & 7in touch screen, plugging it into a portable battery, and 3d printing a case for it.
Fairphone with PostMarketOS seems more practical.
sk1nnym1ke@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
My main problem with linux phones is that many apps only exist only for android or ios.
Sure some apps are basically a website that you can acess by web browser but many apps cant be replaced able (banking, tickets, public transport, games)
toddestan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My main problem with the current crop of Linux phones is, or at least it’s my impression - is that they still struggle with the basic phone part. As in network connectivity (at least in the US), making and receiving calls, SMS & MMS, and VoLTE support. If there’s a Linux phone where that stuff is solid and works, I’d buy one. I don’t really care about the whole app ecosystem - I barely have any apps on my Android phone now.
missphant@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Waydroid works really well to run Android apps on mobile Linux, even for games. Doesn’t help for banking apps though as they’ll usually lock you out due to not passing Google safety checks.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Most Android apps can be run under a mini-VM in the Linux systems I’ve tried - but some apps won’t function well that way (banking, NFC tickets, etc)
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
I think I’d be willing to let go of the handful of things that are exclusive, given that I could probably do more with a proper Linux system. It’s the basic phone functionality (as others have mentioned) that keeps me from switching.
bent@feddit.dk 2 weeks ago
I thought so too, but over the years I have migrated so much of my life away from apps in order to see if it’s possible and apart from games I find that with a browser and an email client I don’t really need apps. Still use apps though, they are way more convenient.
Banking is tedious without apps, but works with browser and an MFA-dongle in my country.
BlackPenguins@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Wait, Linux phones are a thing? How do they get the market share to compete with the big tech?
HeavyRaptor@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
This is about Revanced, isn’t it? They failed to kill it via the YouTube backend so now it’s down to lock down the os and browsers as much as possible to keep feeding people the juicy ads.
ook@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
This is bigger than “just” Revanced though. It is about using any open source software that could replace a Google app and losen Google’s grip on your data.
pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 2 weeks ago
It’s time to start self hosting your own services people!
asparagapple@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is about preparing for DMA and the likes in other countries.
OboTheHobo@ttrpg.network 2 weeks ago
Something kind of concerning I just found - there’s an option for “limited distribution” which is “Intended for ‘students, hobbyists, and other personal use.’” One of the differences is the following:
Has “capped number of apps and installs”(specific limits not disclosed)
Doesn’t this imply there’s going to be global tracking of what apps people are installing even through sideloading or APKs? I can’t think of any other way to enforce this. They would have to know how many times people installed an app even when its not through any kind of app store or even from the internet at all.
Peffse@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m pretty sure that was implemented a while ago. My install of VLC from F-Droid started showing up in Play Store’s update list.
It couldn’t update since the signature didn’t match, but Google knew about it and included it anyway.
0x0@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
They provide the OS, what makes you think that kind of tracking isn’t already happening?
App stores provide the apks but then you’ll use your phone’s installer to actually, well, install the apks.JustARaccoon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Presumably that will work like test flight does where you can only install the app through an invite system
RedFrank24@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If Google is going to lock down my device to the point where I can’t install apps without their permission, I might as well dump Android and go straight to Apple. I sacrificed my phone being good for the openness of the platform, but if Google loses that openness, why shouldn’t I go with Apple?
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Because the cheapest new iPhone is $600 and you can get a cheap new android phone for around $100-$200 and get 6 years of security updates (Galaxy A16 for example)
If a smartphone is no longer a computer where you can install whatever you want, why bother investing so much money on a very locked-down phone? You can use the hundred of dollars you saved to spend on a small portable PC or something to run any software you want.
willington@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Openness isn’t just a nice to have. It is essential.
The difference between general purpose computing and gatekept walled garden computing is night and day.
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Apple hardware has always been a generation ahead. Even when android/qualcom catches up, next generation is out already. The reason to avoid apple was it being a closed system money grab.
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The only answer is money at that point. I don’t know how much phones are these days, but aren’t iPhones like $1400, but Android is like $900?
I may be wrong though. Last time I bought a phone was 2018, and it was $600. Still using it.
MrSqueezles@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This change requires you to attach your real name when publishing software. That’s all. You can still publish to and install packages from anywhere. This doesn’t come close to Apple’s complete control.
Google already scans packages you’re installing for malware and alerts you and allows you to install them anyway. This gives that scanner one more tool to identify bad actors.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
I readily await the visibility and interest this will give mobile linux development.
olympicyes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nearly 100% of the development for handheld Linux is Steam OS / Steam Deck. If Valve moves to ARM at some point then you might see useful improvements that benefit the mobile use case.
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
My shitty country cant use those anyway.
Ilandar@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
I find it very strange how many people in the comments here think the solution is to buy an iPhone. Maybe you are all just rich and can afford to spend $1000+ based on vibes, but considering the Android market still has a massive value advantage I’m not really sure what the point of switching is. This all feels very similar to how some Westerners decided Chinese tech and even the Chinese government were suddenly problem-free just because Americans elected Trump for a second time.
benjaminb@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Can you even (easily) install custom apps on iOS? The last thing I remember is it being a huge pain in the butt…
possumparty@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I trust China more than this current administration…What are they gonna do? Drone strike me? Oh, wait, that’s the US.
wetbeardhairs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The upgrade cycle on iphones is longer than that on android. $1200 flagship samsung phone turns to shit after 2 years. $1100 iphone keeps chugging for 4-5. The android rot is real. Apple is far from perfect but the phones last way longer on average and end up having a lower cost overtime. That is if youre not buying bottom of the barrel budget phones to compare against.
H0neyc0mb@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
…Used or refurbished iPhones are relatively cheap and better for the planet.
singletona@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
What… the Fuck?
Luffy879@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Apple now allows sideloading of apps
Apple allows as much sideloading as google wants to next near.
Yes, you can install from .iPa files, but you still need to pay 100€ a year to be able to sign the IPA files, as much as with googles new policy you now need to pay 25€ + your full name to get a signature, to sign the Apks with
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Now we have to get EU on the case 😀
Mwa@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Apple now allows sideloading of apps and Google is trying to get rid of sideloading.
afaik only in the EU?
squaresinger@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
To be fair, they are now both on the same level. Both now allow sideloading from “trusted” sources, aka developers verified by Apple/Google.
Gumus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Don’t call it sideloading. Did you watch the video?
waldo_was_here@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
So ,i install graphene OS on a pixel phone ,problem solved
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
fuck google tbh
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
This is the risk of “trusted computing” architectures. Who is governing the “trusted” part of that.
These cryptographic signatures are not as much of a death knell for Android as some would have you believe. The trick is to get a common code signing cert into your device, that is then used to sign any third party APK you want to run. You can avoid the Google tax this way. I assume that’s how most sideloading sites and apps are going to handle this.
The question is, how do you add that certificate? Is it easy and straight forward (with plenty of scary warnings), as a user? Or is it going to be a developer options deal? Or will I need root to add the cert?
I’m not sure what that answer is right now.
I just want to finish this post with a few words about trusted computing models. Plainly: Apple has been doing this for years … That’s why you download basically everything from an app store with Apple. Whether on your Mac OS device, your iPhone, iPad or whatever iDevice… Whether the devs need to sign it, or the app gets signed when it lands on the store, there’s a signature to ensure that the app hasn’t been tampered with and that Apple has given the app it’s security blessings, that it is safe to run. Microsoft and Google have both been climbing towards the same forever. Apple embedded their root of trust in their own proprietary TPM which has been included with every Mac, and iDevice for a long ass time. Google also has a TPM, the Titan security module, I believe that was introduced around pixel 3? Or 4?.. Microsoft made huge waves requiring it for Windows 11, and we all know what that discussion looks like. Apple requires a TPM (which they supply, so nobody noticed), Google has been adding a TPM and TPM functionality to their phones for years, and now Windows is the same. None of this is a bad thing. Trusted computing can eliminate much of the need for antivirus software, among other things. I digress. We’ve been going this way for a long time. Google is just more or less, doing what Apple has already done, and what Microsoft will very likely do very soon, making it a requirement. Battlefield 6 I think, was one of the first to require trusted computing on Windows and it will, for damned sure, not be the last that does. The only real hurdle here is managing what is trusted. So far, each vendor has kept the keys to their own kingdoms, but this is contrary to computing concepts. Like the Internet, it should be able to be done without needing trust from a specific provider. That’s how SSL works, that’s how the Internet works, that’s how trusted computing should work. The only thing that should be secret is the private signing keys. What Google, Apple, and Microsoft should be doing, is issuing intermediary keys that can sign code signing certs. So trusted institutions that create apps, like… Idk, valve as an example, can create a signature key for steam and sign Steam with it, so the trust goes from MS root to intermediary key for valve, to steam code signing key, and suddenly you have an app that’s trusted. Valve can then use their key to sign software on their store that may not have a coffee signing key of it’s own. This is just one example based on Windows. And above all of this, the user should be able to import a trusted code signing cert, or an intermediary cert signing cert, to their service as trusted.
Anyways, thanks for coming to my Ted talk.
tias@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
If they only cared about thwarting malware they could have just relied on code signing via public certificate authorities, like with binaries on Windows.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 weeks ago
You’re pissed about it? Visit here: opencollective.com/postmarketOS
IMHO that’s our best shot. Totally Google free, mainstream Linux kernel.
Nikki@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
just installed lineageos with root because of this, so thanks Google i guess
Zink@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I think I am just done with the whole concept of the convenient prepackaged tech product, and especially staying “connected” with them.
For example, I stopped wearing a smart watch this summer and it’s been a positive. I was the type to wear it 23 hours a day and track my sleep with it and everything. It turns out that not instantly seeing every notification or knowing the exact minute of the day are not a big deal, sans are even good for me.
Part of what I’ve also done is use my phone a lot less and my linux desktop a lot more. I use it as a mobile communication device and not my computer for everything. I guess the next time I need to replace it I’ll either get an iphone since everybody in my family has one, or I’ll see where these wonderful Linux phone projects end up.
PieMePlenty@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
be me buy new phone, chose android cause I can install anything on it get free iphone from work sell iphone on ebay cause I can install anything I want on my android google doesnt want me to install anything I want
Fuck me.
F_OFF_Reddit@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So yeah we’ll do a decentralized Linux phone of sorts, if Google is going full 3rd Reich with Android we’ll move to a Linux based OS phone.
Simple as that.
SuperSpruce@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
How does this affect “second-party” apps (i.e. apps you have created yourself)? Are you still allowed to go to Android studio, make an APK, transfer it to your own phone, and install that app? If no, this spells the death of experimental indie developers on Android.
pirate2377@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
(non-Android) Linux phones aren’t really ready for daily driving even for relatively advanced users - but it looks like we’re gonna have to deal with it anyhow
girthero@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Its like Microsoft and Google are teaming up to drive me closer to Linux.
xnx@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Sideloading being so easy on iphones and now becoming very difficult on android. Wow
LordCrom@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Will this kill FDroid ? I imagine yes since you have to install it from a download.
frozenpopsicle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I bought a Pixel recently and for 2 days I tried to make it work. 2 whole days of fumbling pain! And I felt fucking horrible. Almost nothing is customizable and everything coated in a thick layer of AI. Every google app has dark patterns. Don’t like it? Well too bad, apps like goog photos keep on asking if you want to upload your life with a recurring popup that tries to trick you. Don’t want Google Search Bar? Well… you don’t get to say no bitch, don’t make me hurt you. It is not a healthy relationship.
So. I just took the plunge and flashed GrapheneOS. Graphene will take a bit of work getting replacements for some of my needed apps like mail and map. But there are lots of neat options and I’m having fun with it. Problem fixed.
I used the graphene web install. I booted up my Pi 4B+ and used gnome-disks to flash a MicroSD with Ubuntu 24.10 then installed the two packages in the web install instructions then I got Brave (I went to the Brave homepage and they have some curl option to download. I needed to install curl, did that then got Brave installed. Once brave is installed you have to disable browser fingerprinting memory reduction and disable the “brave shield” (the little shield near the address bar) for the web installer GrapheneOS page. (It’s a fresh install, on a Pi, and I know the site, no real risk)
After this you can just press the big buttons on the page and follow the instructions on the page.
There are many ways to do this. They have lists of compatible browsers and operating systems. I picked (eww) Ubuntu and (eww) Brave because they seemed easiest on the list and I did not virtualize or use containers in any way cause it messes up the webUSB magic the website uses. I like to play it safe as possible when firmware is involved so I didnt speed up the instructions. And also when you buy a Pixel, big thing! Turn on dev tools and toggle your oem bootloader setting off and on again. If it can’t do that you need to return the phone because it’s locked down by carrier.
Well… I hope my long sleep deprived ramblings help someone else break their chains. Read a bunch about it before starting! Good Luck!
yukichigai@lemmy.sdf.org 2 weeks ago
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
$1000 USD for a mobile phone…no thanks.
pfr@lemmy.sdf.org 2 weeks ago
I just hope that the Graphene devs continue to support the last supported versions of Android that allow installing apks.
I couldn’t be happier with my P7 that has been running Graphene since day one. Zero Google. Zero problems
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
This is an android 16 feature, scheduled for sept 2026 “prerelease” and 2027 rollout. I expect/hope some phones will have a setting to disable “the security”. If not, there is great opportunty for high end hardware linux first phones, with good android emulation software.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
This defeats the entire purpose of me having android
Like I’m just going to switch to an iPhone now. Not because Apple is any better, but because I have more family with them.
They took away our SD cards, they took away our removable batteries, they took away our headphone jacks. Now they’re taking away side loading apps, and that’s it. I’m done. The death of android.
Dremor@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Removable batteries are coming back, as they become mandatory in the EU in 2027. Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot). As for the headphone jack, I’m afraid it won’t come back. Bluetooth alternative es are far better these days, and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Disputable.
AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Bluetooth alternatives aren’t better, that’s laughable.
You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don’t use Bluetooth.
The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don’t have Bluetooth.
So when you say they’re better 1. You’re wrong. And 2. You’re missing the point.
If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You’re only ok with it because it doesn’t effect you and I think that’s appalling.
Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say “that’s fine, wired headphones are better anyway”. It’s not about that, it’s about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:
volla.online/en/volla-phone-x23/
furilabs.com/shop/flx1/
puri.sm/products/librem-5/#tech-specs
pine64.org/devices/pinephone/
2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
tibi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
No, bluetooth is not better. Bluetooth has latency which is bad for anything that needs realtime audio, like video games or any kind of live performance. It also runs on 2.4 like every other electronic Wireless devices making it prone to interference.
USB C is also inferior because you need dongles which increase complexity of your setup, it’s more prone to failures. Like audio cutting off every x minutes because connection is just slightly loose or other electronic gremlins. I’m saying this having just had a gig and the MD’s phone we relied on for the metronome started acting up during the performance not recognizing the dongle until a reboot.
Audio jacks were simple, analog, worked perfectly fine and delivered high quality audio. What we have now is overengineered slop that is less reliable and more expensive.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Bluetooth is better than…it used to be? Because I promise you there is no earbud on planet earth better than my open back cans.
lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I never had one of my wired earbuds fall off the platform at the train station and disappear in the gravel, nor did I ever have isues with forgetting to charge them, let alone their case being brolen and not charging at all. And if I want to switch my favourite headphones over from my PC to my phone, I’m really glad my old phone still has a jack.
Kuranashi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I still have a headphone jack. Rare but Androids with them exist if you go out of the mainstream bullshit.
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
saying “bluetooth alternatives are far better these days” ignores the uses cases for cable.
int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I have a fp4 and it is VERY annoying to not have jack(I don’t wanna use bluetooth because jack works, doesn’t need a battery and is low tech), so now I only listen to music on my computer, but I’m planning on making an mp3 player with a raspberry pi pico.
olympicyes@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The Apple adapter is very good. I used one on my Linux machine that had a finicky built in port. Obviously works great on a phone. If you need one in a car at least MagSafe/qi is available now but not ideal.
I don’t love the idea of “removable” batteries being mandated if that means like the batteries in an old flip phone. We needed them then because the capacity was so bad and power banks didn’t exist. I would prefer that manufacturers require them to be third party replaceable instead.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Fairphone is too big, i don’t want a phablet in my pocket
Sneptaur@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
The removable batteries coming back would also impact the iPhone, which actually respects user privacy because Apple is not a marketing company. Apple is a products and services company, they sell tech devices and make a lot of money on services like Apple Music and TV+ and such. It’s expensive for a reason; you can even take the encryption keys out of Apple’s hands for iCloud so you genuinely are fully protected
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
So what if Bluetooth are “better”?
Still no reason to not have both.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They won’t become “removable” like in ye old Nokia days. It’s not like you can carry extra batteries and just swap them on the go.
They just have to be swappable without special tools or specialist equipment.
DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Tbf, you can a very cheap android phone for around $100 USD, the cheapest iPhone starts at around $400. Also, Apple developer account cost $99 per year, Google developer account cost $25 one time fee, so the cost is gonna trickle down to the user, sometimes you find free apps on google play and then you look at apple and it cost a few dollars, its most likely due to the recurring costs to maintain a developer account.
Also, Apple doesn’t allow torrent clients, You can’t use firefox with ublock origin on iOS.
(But then again, these advantages could also go away in a few years… 👀)
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
Wait no Firefox on iPhone? Fuck that I’m back in
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Orion sorta lets you use Firefox addons. I use the built in adblocker it has tho.
FalseTautology@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Friend you can buy a much cheaper android phone, which is why I don’t really care much about this, though it is still obviously bad. I hate my phone, I hate cellphones in general, they’re shitty feature locked mini laptops with a subscription so I can, what, make and receive 12 phonecalls a month? Download half a gb when I’m out of wifi range? Use google maps, the literally only truly useful thing my cellphone does for me?
Anyway, because of my disdain I buy the absolute cheapest cellphone on the market that has no attached plan, once every three or four years. I got a new one last month.
It cost thirty bucks. My monthly unlimited talk and text and data plan comes to about 22$ a month.
It’s a piece of shit, obviously. But if all you’re doing is begrudgingly using it to make a couple calls, send some texts, scroll Lemmy while you’re pooping and occasionally use a map the price is appropriate.
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I just get a flipphone, and try to build some portable computing device from a Raspberry Pi CM, even if they made it 5V, for “industrial purposes” (read: likely some industry people wanted to stop people from building their own portable devices), which is less ideal for battery operation.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su 2 weeks ago
Out of the frying pan and into the fire.
I’m glad I stopped expecting logic from you people.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 2 weeks ago
What’d you mean you people?