History will look back at the American empire and judge all its complicit civilians equally. It’s Democrat vanity that makes them think they’re not in the same genocidal boat as Republicans.
Yeah, let's stop with this "don't judge people for their poiltics" bullshit
Submitted 1 year ago by octopus_ink@lemmy.ml to [deleted]
https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/dd74b5d0-a8ff-4144-83d6-ed111e66c601.webp
Comments
dx1@lemmy.world 1 year ago
AppleTea@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
The people who are getting real mad over Republican voters don’t really care that Rs and Ds have the same foreign policy. The frontier of empire is coming home, but acknowledging that would mean acknowledging we export suffering.
dustyb0tt0mz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
it’s really not about blaming voters anymore. that ship sailed. i had been calling for a conservative purge for the last 10 years but nobody listened to me. i don’t know if we can stop what’s coming now.
dustyb0tt0mz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
history won’t do shit if it’s controlled by tech billionaires until they destroy the planet.
rational_lib@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The most successful tactic of the right has been judging the left for their politics - “woke” etc. The left needs to be similarly unabashed.
But it needs to be more fun and less serious than this post. Why is there no “screaming maga” meme? Surely there’s plenty of those images, and more.
stickly@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Putting aside whether or not that’s anathema to the cause, I’m not sure how you’d “other” them in a meaningful way. The reason it works for the right is that they target groups who’s members are publicly visible and can’t voluntarily leave (LGBT+, minorities, foreign religions, etc…)
If you target a group of people for their beliefs (something not overtly visible), they can either relabel their group or plausibly claim their beliefs differ in some way. We already do this for fascists and nazis, but very few people are going to outwardly admit to these ideals. Now they’ll just say they’re “extra-constitutional”, “alt right”, “Christian patriot”, or any other hat a bigot wants to swap out for far right authoritarian.
You can’t “other” them where they already proudly claim a majority (white + Christian) so what are you left with?
bitchkat@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m going to continue judging them for the party they belong to because its a valid proxy for all the other stuff.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I thought we stopped doing that that in 2003
scaredoftrumpwinning@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I see three main types of people that voted for trump, the easily duped, racists and the rich that don’t care how they get their money. If someone tells me they voted for this guy I loose all respect for them. I’m sure that there’s some one issue voters out there but I would lump them into the first category. I have even less respect for someone that doesn’t like trump but did not vote.
I’m at a loss of what to even do. I would like to see the dnc grow a pair of balls and take on these monsters. I would like to see the dnc organize a national boycott on any company even closely tied to musk and trump. The protests are fine to show solidarity but the people in charge will not see it. Hitting the companies in the wallet that are helping musk and trump destroy our country would be a good cause IMHO.
loweffortname@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
There’s also the “vote to hurt people I don’t like” group:
Lemminary@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I knew one of those types. The first Trump campaign he straight up said he wanted to see the US destroyed and that’s why he was voting. He used to be a run-of-the-mill liberal dude but got caught up in stupid 4 Chan and shit and became a huge mysogynist and racist. It was sick watching him turn and become emboldened over the years.
LeroyJenkins@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve lived all around this country and I think the biggest bucket that you exclude is “people who grew up their whole lives in Republican communities that also don’t care about politics nearly as much as chronic Internet users”. these people go to the booths and go ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ before voting for whoever’s campaign banner they saw around town more or whoever they heard a relative mention. these people are everywhere. they aren’t even bad people or misinformed dummies, per say, just willingly uninformed. for a large swath of Americans, being Republican is just the default unfortunately.
DontMakeMoreBabies@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If someone lacks the intellectual curiosity to question their own beliefs, they’re fucking dumb (and probably lazy). That’s the first box, assuming “easily duped” means what we all know it means.
AidsKitty@lemmy.world 1 year ago
America held an election. Democracy made a choice. All those that stand against democracy will also be judged by history.
IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Weimar Republic held an election. Democracy made a choice. All those stand against Adolf Hitler will be judged by history
FTFY
FreakinSteve@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We have strong evidence that that choice is NOT the one that was made.
TurboHarbinger@feddit.cl 1 year ago
Exactly why the vote is secret
agrv13@lemmy.world 1 year ago
its not like voting for scum like biden and harris is moral when they murder thousands of children for aipac money. trump is doing exactly what dnc does to poor non-white countries. now cry because you were happy when done to someone.
israel has done far far worse warcrimes than russia in ukraine but still no mention or criticism of it in western media. everyone crying only now and silent during biden is also self-absorbed racist hypocrite.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Siegfried@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Stop, you dont need to dive bomb them, gal!
RandomVideos@programming.dev 1 year ago
History doesnt judge people
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters, that the Poland invasion was because of the soldiers
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
peteypete420@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
History does judge people. The nazi soldiers have caught a ton of grief, even in my lifetime. The israli soldiers currently serving are frequently compared to nazi soldiers both in meme and article form.
Yes the leaders get most (and should) of the blame. But people do remember the other people making it possible. (google the Yaroslav Hunka scandal for a example).
Ill probably be considered a fascist myself in my descendants eyes, having not run for office or started/participated in a violent revolution. (I am holding out hope I might still be able to participate at least).
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And yet, so many people’s German grandfathers refused to talk about what they did during the war. Despite the lack of judgment.
octopus_ink@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Nobody claims that WW2 was because of voters
Maybe if folks had been shamed into not supporting the Nazis and their hollow, superficial, hateful “solutions” we wouldn’t even have an example with such obvious and clear parallels to draw upon.
The people leading the propaganda are blamed
Nobody should be (or seems to have) fucking absolved them for handing their nation to fascists, either.
mirror.co.uk/…/german-civilians-forced-see-real-1…
www.pritzkermilitary.org/…/germans-dig-graves
steeznson@lemmy.world 1 year ago
People cast their vote for a variety of complicated reasons, often against their own interests. Someone might be stupid because they voted for a bad ticket but I don’t think they are necessarily immoral.
These old norms like not judging others for their politics used to function fine before social media propagated and the culture wars flared up. I’d be hesitant to throw the old norms away, even in our current circumstances, because after they go there’s no guarantee you’ll ever get them back.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The old norms weren’t necessarily good.
steeznson@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They worked fine in the 90s/00s. Social media and smart phones has just come in and created hyper-polarization since then. Human beings aren’t designed to be able to handle getting news so quickly from such a wide variety of (dubious) sources.
Slam_Eye@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Naw, I’ll judge people based on a person to person basis and not just use generalized lazy ass blanket judgement on anyone whom isnt in my social/political/religious group. Stop adding to the problem.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
On a person-to-person basis, I judge every person who voted for Trump because they voted for a fascist.
VlerrieBR@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Just repeating a narrative does not make it true.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“I want X bad thing to happen” “Hey, this guy wants X to happen. That’s bad.” “STOP GENERALIZING!!1!”
stickly@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’d agree that your reasoning makes sense but is reductionist when talking about America’s two party system.
I grew up in a conservative town and I personally knew lots of people that were truly, deeply compassionate people. Christian in the truly radical, hippy sense of the word. Except they had one issue, abortion made them sad.
It wasn’t any ignorance of the issue or believing in satanic baby eating, but a philosophy arbitrarily picked by their community. They didn’t hate anyone getting an abortion, they just had some utopian vision of a world where they didn’t happen.
Since abortions were framed as murder and one party promised to ban abortions and the other party expand access, they were told there was only one ethical choice.
So their one line of thought trapped them. I could argue up and down the ballot on issues they agreed with, how the economy should be handled, prison reform, etc… but that one stupid idea held them back.
They’re still good people, and voted 3rd party a few times when the mood struck them. But I don’t think wanting one bad policy (with the best intentions) makes them bad people.
So I’d say yes. In that instance, with those people, it’s generalizing to say they were on board with any of the hateful policies. They were held hostage by their single issue, and the right’s rhetoric made damn sure they could never wriggle out.
Slam_Eye@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
You’re doing it again brother. Its best to try and relax.
meliaesc@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Sure, but Trump voters aren’t a lazy generalization.
whytho@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Everyday I read the news and get more depressed.
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 year ago
that’s why i only sit and read it once a week. the rest of the time I just skim headlines.
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This may not be the best thread for your mental health in that case. It hasn’t been great for mine, taking care of all the rule violations.
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 1 year ago
One problem is the GOP has been taken over and continually converted to MAGA; it started with calling people “RINOs,” attacking each other for party purity.
“Democrats fall in love; Republicans fall in line.”
DJDarren@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
There’s a tiny part of me that’s willing to allow that the people voting for him in 2016 just wanted to make their protests heard. Even though he was very, very clear who he is and what he stands for, people were struggling and made themselves heard in the shittiest possible way.
But the people who voted him in again, knowing exactly how it’s going to shake out could all drop dead at once and I wouldn’t shed a tear. Fuck every one of those cunts.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hot take:
The problem isn’t the other middle class people who’ve been convinced to wear a different color hat.
The problem is the oligarchs who’ve been plotting to take over and destroy the power of the people by dismantling the government. The people who are actively doing that exact thing while the ignorant masses engage in tribalism and attacking people for voting.
Engaging on this topic is just furthering the distraction tactics. The people who’re actively working to destroy the government or implementing policies targeting minority populations are not your neighbors or anybody that you will run into on social media.
Feathercrown@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ok but I still partially blame the people who voted the oligarchs into power
stickly@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you want to come to that conclusion in a political postmortem 20 years from now I’d fully encourage it.
The problem is that right now the house is burning down and shaming people for playing with matches won’t save us.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Sure, but as a leftist who grew up in a deep red area, I can tell you that those people are, largely, uneducated and ignorant.
It is because of that ignorance that they’re able to believe the lies that led them to acting the way that they did. The people who bear the majority of the responsibility and blame are the ones who know that they’re taking advantage of and cultivating that ignorance.
I get to hear, in real time, the propaganda engine work on these people (which includes most of my family). I see how topics are framed, by media personalities, into palatable actions. As I’m writing this, there’s a podcast playing at my job, where DOGE is being celebrated for finding ‘fraud and abuse’. I know, for a fact, that the listeners don’t have a high school education and have no idea how the government’s payment systems work… but the radio is telling them that DOGE is doing good work.
So, how can they know any better? These are not people who’re ever going to continue their education and their media literacy skills were developed in the 80s. They’re simply not equipped to handle the scale of lying that exists in the modern world.
On the other hand, the person talking, has multiple degrees and has served in the federal government. That person KNOWS they’re lying but continue to do so because it is profitable. I find people like that to be far more culpable. They’re lying for profit (grifting, to use an over used term) and their lies reach millions of voters.
Then you have the people who benefit from the lies. Trump and Elon know that they’re dealing with ignorant people, they know exactly how to use populist rhetoric at public events. While, in private, they’re using the power that they’ve obtained to corruptly enrich themselves and their sycophants.
Direct your ire at the people who’re actively profiting off of lies and corruption. Help to educate the other people around you when they’re being fed lies.
Attacking your neighbor while Elon and Trump ransack the government is not only pointless, it’s completely counter-productive and ensures that we’ll never unify against this kind of power grab.
Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Oh but you don’t get it, they are NAZIS you seeeee
I mean I am sure of that even tho I haven’t actually met them or talked to them or even made an effort to understand them. But yeah pretty sure
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think once someone is making Nazi salutes on a presidential inauguration stage, we can safely call them a Nazi. And as the old saying goes, you know what you call all the people who sit down at a dinner table with a Nazi?
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
We supported Trump because we believe that Biden’s policies have had a detrimental impact on our country. Over the past four years, those of us who work hard for a living have faced significant challenges. Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many. My son, for example, would have to work far harder than I ever did just to afford rent. We voted for a better future for the working class.
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity. The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns. It’s important to reflect on how Biden’s actions impact the world and the people who suffer as a result. Blaming a president who is advocating for the wellbeing of hardworking Americans misses the larger issue at hand. It’s essential to focus on the real challenges facing our nation, rather than directing blame toward individuals who are working to create a better future for the people of this country.
100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it 1 year ago
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I’m all in for criticizing Biden’ support for Israel and I think that the Democratic Party prefers saying “vote for us, we are not the other guy” to actually addressing the glaring issues in wealth distribution, but… Trump spectacularized the erasure of trans people from official documents and the deportation of migrants, he is dismantling that little welfare the US has to eat it up with his oligarch buddies and you still think that he is somehow better? I don’t know if you’re a bot, a shill, or simply lack the political education needed.
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The problem is you misunderstand macroeconomics on a fundamental level if you think the policies proposed by Trump or the actions taken by Trump so far will in fact bring down prices.
I get why you hoped he was telling the truth but if you ever had taken even intro macro you would know enough to doubt what he’s saying.
If you think Trump is more moral than Biden I’d ask why you think the guy who raped people and admitted to intentionally walking in on teenaged girls changing clothes because he could was more moral because that’s just bizarre.
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
If President Biden’s macroeconomic policies have contributed to the current inflation, it may be time to reevaluate and implement new macroeconomic strategies.
RedSeries@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Since calling you what you are is not allowed:
In contrast, the previous administration has shown a lack of morals, ethics, and compassion for humanity.
I cannot see how you can look at this current administration and think that this is better in any way.
BlueMacaw@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I 100% agree with your critiques, but I don’t see how Trump was going to solve them. However, I’m pretty disappointed that you’re at -20 at the time I’m making this comment (thanks blue maga groupthink), so I’m upvoting you to try and turn the tide. But all standards, you have a well written comment that should not be downvoted into oblivion.
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
This reaction is fairly common on Lemmy; when users disagree, they often downvote. However, the joke is on them, as I don’t concern myself with negative votes—what truly matters to me is fostering meaningful dialogue. Ultimately, Lemmy tends to function as a collection of small echo chambers.
I was once a Democrat, but after the way Bernie Sanders was treated, I can no longer align myself with the party. I would have supported Sanders over Trump, and I believe many others would have as well.
hotelbravo722@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I agree that the Biden administration’s policies where not good enough to address the real issues facing working people in the country. They were pulling from the same neoliberal economic playbook that both parties have used and has been shown over and over again to increase inequality instead of decreasing inequality. Biden and Democratic leadership think we are still in the world economic situation of the 1990’s and refuse to believe otherwise.
However Trump on the other hand doesn’t even have a plan. He was correct in saying “The Economy sucks”, but had no other plan to fix the system besides “Drill Baby Drill” and “Let the Oligarchs decide how the economic system works”. Harris might have been an out of touch elite, oblivious to economic reality. But Trump is pain and destruction incarnate and will only cause more pain and destruction during his tenure.
The reality is the US Empire is dying and it can either go gracefully or with pain and anger while it takes the rest of the world with it.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s going with pain an anger, but thanks to Trump’s trade wars the rest of the world is finally distancing itself from the USA enough that we might not be dragged down with you.
That’s the one silver lining to all this: America’s been on a clear path to fascism since GWB at the latest, but now that it’s finally here it’s being managed by an outright moron. Trump’s stupidity will be the one thing that saves the world.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you’re paying any attention, you’d be seeing you’ll get nothing but precisely the opposite of what you claimed you voted for. Given Trump’s history, you have no leg to stand on believing that liar.
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
You possess a unique perspective that many of us do not have, as it seems you are able to foresee the future. However, it’s important to acknowledge that Trump is following through on the promises he made, while Biden has not delivered in the same way. In his final actions, Biden prioritized securing the well-being of his family and ensuring their safety. In contrast, it often appears that Biden’s focus has not been on the American people or their interests.
StupidBrotherInLaw@lemmy.world 1 year ago
[deleted]stickly@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s not necessarily a lack of education, I know a really smart surgeon, generally very reasonable, who fell for this stuff.
If you’ve never seen the echo chamber this guy lives in you don’t understand how bizarre it can be.
On the surface there’s a lot of influencers that can say truly regressive lies, and make them sound innocuous. They say it with such confidence and mixed in with truths and half truths. It can be hard to see the fallacies and misinfo even if you know what to look for.
There’s a constant drip of cherry picked stats and talking points designed to reinforce what he’s feeling. In the back of his mind he knows those support his case but he doesn’t really have an original source to reference. He tries to say them with the same confidence that he heard them with, but they’re not based in reality and look pretty ugly without the professional window dressing.
There’s videos where people do deep dives on this stuff (I can try to find one if you want). You could probably also experiment with it yourself if you have a VPN and a fresh/virtual device to make an account on.
UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Noved@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I’m not going to argue with you because there’s enough other people doing that. What I am interested though is a few statistics about yourself to compare to what you’re saying.
You claim to be part of a group who " works hard for a living"
Just wondering what your line of work is and yearly income.
Have you always voted conservative? does your family vote conservative or are you the outlier?
What social media platforms do you use?.
What region of the USA do you live in? Normally blue/ red?
Thanks!
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
would you also like my bank account username and password?
Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The last thing that’s going on in there is arguing. Maybe you are confused with belittling.
Purity tests is not how you get workers to your doomed cause
HappySkullsplitter@lemmy.world 1 year ago
[deleted]NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
I’m not your father!
Holyginz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The sheer fact that your whole comment can be refuted and countered from just cursory searches and looking outside of curated news spaces means that you are either arguing in bad faith or you just choose to ignore reality. Either way your stupid decision is going to fuck over a huge number of people and that includes your son because trump has never worked a day in his life. He has bankrupt over 250 businesses, including a casino so he’s a shit businessman. Your inability or unwillingness to face reality is going to be responsible for everything that trump fucks up over the next, hopefully only, 4 years.
kautau@lemmy.world 1 year ago
MothmanDelorian@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They aren’t wrong about why they voted. They are wrong about the results of Trump’s policies which is different.
I believe they believed Trump’s claims.
Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You laugh but that’s what they voted for. Empiric evidence suggests things weren’t too hot for them these last 4 years so I don’t know why would you laugh at them in any case
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Inflation has skyrocketed to the point where basic necessities like housing, food, and healthcare are out of reach for many.
Get ready for more inflation and less food and healthcare access
The support of actions that led to the loss of countless Palestinian lives raises serious ethical concerns.
Great, prepare for Palestine to not exist at all anymore.
I understand that the Democrats are also the party of the corporate oligarchs and are also going to fuck us, but at this point voting for Trump is just throwing the baby out with the bath water, my guy.
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
It seems like there are many individuals here with the ability to predict the future! If you have such insight, perhaps you could share tonight’s Powerball numbers?
RedSeries@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Get out of here, fascist. You’re what’s wrong with my country.
NastyNative@mander.xyz 1 year ago
I would recommend familiarizing yourself with the definition before using the term.
Shardikprime@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Wow you have met them all? Incredible how some have time to deeply understand and meet a full nation worth of people.
Little reminder: Those people you are alienating, those as per your and Lemmy judgement “Nazi, racists, uneducated, homophobic, traitors, fascists, unethical, uncompassionate and misogynistic” are voters with as much rights as you have to decide the course of the nation
And guess what, YOU NEED THEM.
Not in the sense of WOW WE NEED THEIR VOTES MAYBE WE SHOULD NOT TREAT THEN LIKE SHIT kind of thing, although you actually DO need those votes.
I mean in the sense that these are the standard blue collar, hard workers of the country. Those plumbers, electricians, waste disposal, street sweepers, truck drivers, and so on
You know, the people? The workers that the Dems and libs cry daily to protect their rights?
Well those are the ones you are alienating with your message. The common man.
Dems have become the party of the coastal elites. You can’t cry against the stablishment because you became the stablishment.
So, it is alrighty if you think that alienating and pushing them common people outside of your leftist bubble is working for your cause.
But remember why you lost the election. Try to understand why if “we think the others are SO BAD and shout it into the wind, why didn’t we win?”
Because until you answer that question, you’ll be kept surely in permanent stunlock.
So go, sure. Protest, picket and outrage against every little thing they do. Tire yourselves. Double down on the name calling.
That surely will work wonders
socsa@piefed.social 1 year ago
Yeah I always say, you should judge a person by the contents of their soul, not by how often they beat their wife.
NotAllWifeBeaters
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They didn’t need my daughter, which is why they voted for someone who would make her part of his domestic genocides. And that’s why they forced us both to leave the country. So I don’t need them.
surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No. Liberals are not in a position to judge. Genocide is the worst possible crime. And at the very least, every Harris voter decided genocide support wasn’t a dealbreaker. So they know exactly what it is to set their morals aside to support their demagogue. They’ve lost any right to claim the moral high ground.
Now if you didn’t vote for either Harris or Trump? Judge away.
stoy@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
It gets even more basic than that.
Trump is just plain repulsive.
queermunist@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Don’t assume someone who voted for Trump lacks morals or is racist etc.
They could just be really stupid. Did you think of that?
Kyrgizion@lemmy.world 1 year ago
America is waking up to the reality, as Germany once did, that 1/3 of their population wants to kill another 1/3 while the other 1/3 watches and stands by.
ivanafterall@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think this will be the dynamic that ultimately, finally, eventually-in-God-knows-how-long, bubbles over and hopefully addresses this nonsense. People will slowly reach where many of us are: just doooone. Out of patience and understanding.
kitnaht@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The problem is people like Andrea Junker here have gone way past the point of reasonability with their claims. So the people who are “supporting racism, …etc” don’t actually believe that they’re doing that. Because one teeny step out-of-line on the left, and you’re labeled right wing, and jumped on by thirsty hoards of people who would rather eat their own.
Nobody who’s voting republican actually believes you when you say they are supporting these things, because we live in clown world, and they’re all brainwashed into thinking that you’re lying.
I tell people this constantly, and get ignored or chided for the thought.
oldbaldgrumpy@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you are a liberal don’t care about your opinion.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
You have the freedom to decide, you do not have the freedom from the consequences on your decisions.