Submitted 2 months ago by alphacyberranger@sh.itjust.works to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.bmwblog.com/2024/08/14/adaptive-m-suspension-subscription/
If once you do not succeed, just try again next year. They tried and backtracked putting heated seats behind a paywall not even a year ago see here.
Unless laws are made to make this fundamentally illegal, they’ll just keep pushing until it sticks. And once one manufacturer succeeds, they’ll all follow.
Next up, Anti-Lock Brakes As a Subscription Service. ASS.
Haha… connection to server cannot be established. Suspension resetting to default.
At least in the case of games, the servers are an ongoing expense that adds value to the game. I want to play against other people online and provide by that costs ongoing expenses.
Oh you think this feature will function locally… I’ll bet this goes from their app to their servers first to verify subscription and then to your car. Someone needs to pay for the subs ription verification platform.
Anyone that buys a car that has shit like this is a fool.
True, however we must fight this because otherwise, when you need to buy a car, there won’t be an option without a shitty subscription attached
Remember that some of is live in shitty cities with bad or no alternative ways of moving around
I agree totally, but I don’t think it will matter with new vehicles. They’re going to track you and spay on you more than your phone. I will forever drive old stuff. I’m a mechanic so that’s a super easy option for me. I won’t own anything new enough to spy on me, my car will be MY car.
The article implies nobody even knew it already had this functionality. I’m sure the customers weren’t told either.
I’ve heard for years that BMW was doing shit like this. Heated seats is what it started with. Toyota did it with remote start but I think they backed down after the outrage.
“The pressure eased off a little when they ended subscriptions tied to heated seats, but the Internet rage machine has come back for vengeance.”
lol. It’s not vengeance or rage, its simply the fact that making someone pay for something they already own is dumb.
Why is this bad in a nutshell.
A) The only way to control access to this feature is to lock down and phone home. If it doesn’t phone home then when someone figures out a way around your present security its possible for someone to sell said features forever. Such DRM could hurt repeatability by accident or more likely on purpose.
B) There is no reason to fail open so even if BMW is still chugging when they stop taking your cars phone calls and retires those servers you get no more feature.
C) The amount spent over the lifespan of a car wherein people opt to take care of their valuable asset absolutely dwarfs the cost able to be extracted up front
D) This functionality opens the door to a hacker not just turning off your features but turning off your car. This includes state sponsored attackers and people who are just generally pissed off at the geopolitical actions of your country of origin. If you are in the US that is a lot of fucking people.
E) Product segmentation on average increases the amount you can extract per user. Allowing segmentation by features turn on or off in software by the month it allows far greater segmentation with no reasonable expectation that the baseline will be lower. This means the lowest end user of a model pays the same for even less. The median user pays somewhat more and the max user pays a LOT more.
F) This means wholly paid for used cars now come with a car payment to the manufacturer.
Now there are half a hundred people on the boards of these companies and 338M of us in the US. 449M in the EU. There is no reason to allow this misfeature to continue to be a thing in our markets. If automakers don’t like those restrictions any one of them can opt to most of the most valuable markets in the world and find their fortunes exclusively in China while their competitors eat their former marketshare.
Forgot one that was mentioned up-thread, which was that even if you don’t pay for the fancy suspension you will still have to pay for fancy suspension parts if they break.
Fantastic point
C and e don’t sound like bad things
All of it is a reason for people to vote not to allow it. This can be accomplished federally or via initiatives in states. If a handful states comprising 30-50% of the pop wont allow it then it will be dead.
FUCK these out of control capitalists jesus christ.
You know it’s just a matter of time before this shit starts being applied to budget cars.
…I really hope the tech crowd is working on jailbreaking this garbage.
We try. We also pivot to open source to try and regain control because it’s the only way. We even share our passions with those who ask.
You folks just roll your eyes and put more money on their hands.
This “tech crowd” and “you folks” dichotomy is not helpful at all. Tell people how they can help, volunteer, donate etc, don’t wedge gaps between the same class fighting against the same ruling class. I’m a software engineer. I write open source software. I get that it’s tiring and you can see the worst in people when doing it, but we’re going to have to be better than that if we want to change things.
And for those reading like the top commenter, don’t sit on your hands and wait for “tech folks” to figure stuff out. It’s us vs. corporate greed, not “us hoping the tech folks save us from corporate greed” or “us tech folks being badgered like we should be some saviors against corporate greed.” Write your representatives to tell them this isn’t ok. Be mindful in your selection when you purchase a vehicle. Ask your tech savvy friends and family what you can do to help. You aren’t helpless in this, and as OP said, just sitting and waiting for something to be fixed or changed doesn’t help the overall goal.
That would be the ultimate way to stop this. Let them put the hardware in, and then not make a cent off it, because a third party enables it for the customer.
“We’re pivoting from serving peasants to fleecing rich dumbasses that subscribe and pay monthly fees for features built into the car.”
And they’ll make money doing it. Because there will never be a shortage of people with more money than sense.
eh, rich people car shop as well, and there is plenty of competition in that market. of course some people will still opt for BMW, we just have to hope enough go elsewhere to make them lose marketshare.
Ngl, i don’t see how bmw gets any sales when Mercedes exists. If you are actually rich a Mercedes is almost objectively the better vehicle, if you are just trying to show off the Mercedes is a better status symbol too.
When you need fitgirl to help you with your car.
Or an Empress. Just stay off the Telegram channel FFS.
Idk, it’s almost entertaining watching her lose her mind.
They tried this with heated seats and no one wanted it, why would we accept this? German car makers have become such a joke in the last decade…
This is why I don’t mourn Western car companies getting slaughtered by Chinese EVs. They can’t really provide value by nickel and diming customers with subscriptions for components already installed on their privacy-invading overpriced cars.
You do realize all car companies do scummy things? BYD along with others uses parts serialization so you can’t install any parts unless BYD installs it for you an updates the software to take the new serial number.
I think you’re thinking of Xiaomi, Louis Rossman did a video assuming they were doing Apple-style serialization but all it was doing was blocking installation of self-driving if the headlights weren’t standard. It wasn’t DRMing brake pads or preventing buying headlights from a junkyard, there was a functional reason.
I didn’t realize they were like Apple. Is there a source you have I could check out?
One of the reasons electric cars were able to outcompete ICE-specialized companies is because they undercut on all sorts of nice to haves like buttons and pieces that they forgo by using a screen, wifi, updates, beta testing.
But they don’t pass on those cost savings to you. They are even sold as luxury products. They even take the carbon credits. That’s bullshit if you are serious about mainstream adoption.
ICEs are doing all of that shit now too. The truth is ICEs are fucking overpriced and manufacturers didn’t want to lose money.
They would make turn signals a subscription service but they won’t ever get any money from that.
That was the joke, only worse
Yes, that’s the joke.
I’d hoped that BMW (and the rest of the automotive industry) would have learned from the subscription heated seats debacle.
Oh well, no Beemers for me.
We already pay shitty spare parts subscription for the shitty cars they make.
BMW dances in bare ass in front of Chinese erect cock.
The level of subscriptions has become insane
Wow, even a stopped clock is right twice a day I guess
Should be a nottheonion article
Or aboringdystopia
You wouldn’t download a Car.
Yes. Yes I would.
I’m never buying a BMW again. I had an electric i3 which had an inverter (charger) failure. BMW wanted €12k to fix it. Thankfully an independent offered to do it for 4K. But BMW still wanted 3K just to plug it in and authenticate the new block. Nothing else, just “bless” it. Made the fix cost-prohibitive so we just had to scrap the car. The battery, which most people fear, was fine on this 8 year old car.
Luxury car dealers do that all the time. The Volvo dealership quoted me $2800 to get my car to pass extension, about $1500 of which was just tires.
I got a set of tires from Costco for like $800, and then an independent mechanic said everything else was fine and charged me $100 for inspection and emissions.
I know, but in the past the independent dealers didn’t have to deal directly with BMW for fixes. Now with all the authentication needed you can’t just get a replacement part from anywhere any more. Similar to how Apple locked down its batteries, BMW is doing the same.
Even 4k sounds utterly insane for an inverter, but maybe I am wrong on that. Insane. Yeah I won’t be buying a BMW ever.
Inverter + install + testing. It’s deep in the car so a lot has to come out (I was told).
I see many more Teslas on the streets than BMWs in my country and in my city.
And I live in Europe.
Fuck you BMW, who the fuck are you and where you go:)))
Imagine suffering an accident and having to pay a plus because of a feature you can’t even use on the parts you replace. I feel this is non-competitive bullshit that is following the trend Elon Musk started, although it probably started much earlier.
Elon? Dude, fuck Elon, but even Tesla’s only recurring paid feature is $9.99 for cell connection, which is super reasonable. BMW is just insane.
take a nap while your car murders some kids
Tesla out here running real-life “trolley problem” demos.
We need a FOSS car…
So you purchase ordinary suspension but get active suspension that works exactly like ordinary suspension and cost like active suspension to service…
It’s time we get legislation that gives the consumer access to all key pairs used in the product they purchased.
No, we need to legislate that you should be able to use the hardware features that come with your vehicle without a subscription. What will the average consumer do with encryption keys? Even then, you’d need to decrypt and rewrite the ECU or other system that controls this hardware to run your own version, and if that doesn’t work, you’d need to have hardware to manually intercept communications between the suspension and the system verifying your subscription, and intercept the signal to always send an ok signal.
The hardware has full functionality from day one. The limitation is in what software you are using.
Active suspension is not a hardware feature, it’s suffrage collecting data from sensors and by analysing the data adjusting the suspension to “optimal performance”.
The software, “BMW Smooth Comfortable Cloud Ride Software”, is included free of charge! BMW also offers “BMW Hyper Advanced AI Premium Sensation Masculine Active Road Experience Pro Suspension” as an optional subscription for alpha males and people with too much money in their pockets.
The outcome of what you are suggesting will be a slight change in the phrasing of the product offering at the most.
With access to the keys, the owner can subscribe to the BMW solution, unlock the features in breach of the agreement with BMW by not subscribing or get a software solution for the car from another provider.
Man, never thought I’d see the day that after market car crackz become an industry.
Soon, coming to a piracy site near you: [RZR] BMW i3 crack - Full (Heated seats + suspension + AC unlock + headlight fixes)1.05b.rar
:)))))
Wouldn’t mind those sweet tunes coming back though.
We’ve come full circle to downloading and running things with titles like:
“BMWaReZ_UnSUSSer+HeetSeeter-v4.20.69.appimage”
carwarez, websites that look like they came from the matrix with magnet links and mega links.
And can a car you rooted pass periodic inspection?
keep backup, restore, restore new backup afterwards.
Hire a third party to do your tune-ups, specificly one that is jailbreak and hack friendly.
In what way does the suspension require regular servicing or an online connection to a server to function? That would be the only reason to offer it as an ongoing service cost.
Otherwise, you’re just paying extra for something already in your car, not for an actual service, which would make no sense?
What next, paint ongoing service fees for having wheels? Not even for ensuring they’re regularly replaced, serviced, or repaired, just for the ability to use them at all…
Lol, good luck with that. I’ll stuck with my dumb, subscription-less and app-less ebike. And still manage to beat cars due to insane traffic.
I really wish biking was more of an option in most of the us. Unfortunately the vast majority of cities in this country are car-centric strip mall wastelands. Nothing like having a 5 foot wide bike lane right next to a 65mph highway.
Well, at least we know you’re not vegan.
You can tell because he’s not mentioning it.
BMW is always making headlines with this crap, are there any other brands doing this shit? I know Hyundai IONIQ has a free trial for you to be able to unlock your car and whatnot with an app, later they will do it subscription based.
Most manufacturers are doing this.
Most people don’t seem to care since they understand there are ongoing server and infrastructure costs.
My car’s suspension should not need a server.
There is no justification for “server and infrastructure” for a fucking car. No part of a car should require a single penny of server costs over the entire lifespan.
Not downvoting you, but what on earth would need a SQL server to use suspension? It would be far too slow for real-time applications, and this isn’t a rolls royce engine on a jet generating 1tb of data a second when all sensors are active and logging.
This is a mall-mobile that someone will probably total in a power center parking lot in Arizona.
What ever happened to you buy a car and pa it. No need for subscriptions to things like suspensions, steering wheels, running engines…. You know the things I bought.
And what happens when all the cars are like this? EAAS? (Enshittification As A Service)
We start again with a strange Germany in Europe:)
I can easily foresee the drm services or servers being shutdown, like the Microsoft music server…most you bought can no longer be used if moved.
Eventually they will “retire” this model and shut down servers. Making the car maybe driveable, but won’t have stuff you paid for I bet.
Plus, eventually someone will unlock this with a hacked car software patch anyway.
Thanks, I gladly stick with my old non-BMW car!
db2@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Oh look, another reason not to buy BMW, I’ll just add it to the other 456788656752 reasons.
jonne@infosec.pub 2 months ago
The problem is that once one manufacturer starts doing this, they’ll all do it, so you won’t even have the option of buying a new car without a subscription.
Fisch@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
I’m so gonna install Linux on my future car
Damage@feddit.it 2 months ago
I’d sooner hack the car
gh0stcassette@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
I’m glad my current car is a 2015 Mazda. It’s recent enough to have a touch screen and Bluetooth, but not so recent that it’s got an LTE/5G radio that can phone home and let them sell my driving data to insurance companies or force subscription payments on me. When I get my next car in a decade or so, hopefully I can import a cheap Chinese EV that’s either easy to jailbreak, or doesn’t have any of that bullshit included.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
MisterFrog@lemmy.world 2 months ago
While this is completely true, it’s a bit tone-deaf. Fuck cars, but many people barely have a choice because their public transport consists of a handful of busses that come once an hour and nothing is close by.
iamanurd@midwest.social 2 months ago
I love my bmw plug in hybrid. I don’t see myself ever paying for a subscription though. Maybe if it comes with pizza, but even then it’s unlikely.