Submitted 8 months ago by someguy3@lemmy.ca to general@lemmy.world
This only makes sense when I realize that to conservatives, it’s an identity. They think it’s an identity that Taylor Swift should have because she’s (presumably) white, popular, rich, good looking, etc.
To them politics is not about ideas, or policies, or good governance. It’s all about identity.
I’ve heard this same thing said to me by Hitler humpers trying to recruit me based on what I look like, just because we’re blonde haired and blue eyed with fair skin does not make us want to be a part of their hateful bullshit, I’ve got Jewish, Hispanic, black, and Asian family, and I absolutely fucking hate anyone that would harm my family or friends for any reason, but especially over race or religion.
Anti racists come in all shapes, sizes, and colors. That’s kinda the fucking point actually.
Abso-fucking-lutely.
“But you would be part of the in-group! So why don’t you help us make the out-groups life miserable?!”
Is there any tangible advantage to be in the ingroup? What’s that I have to give 10% of my income to the church. What’s that I have to donate money to a billionaire? What’s that I will literally die from treatable malidies?
Yayyyyy…
Damn right.
Well yeah, to them it’s a tribe instead of a moral failing
Right, and so many don’t seem to understand the difference between principles and affiliation. It’s why when they respond to allegations about Trump being associated with Epstein by saying Bill Clinton was too, they’re dumbfounded when liberals say, okay, he should be investigated too.
Generally, liberals are more likely to relate to things based on principles (e.g., people shouldn’t have sex with children, so we should investigate any credible allegations regardless of who they’re about). Conservatives are more likely to relate to things based on affiliation (e.g., I reject the allegations about that guy having sex with children because he’s on my team, but the guy on your team should be investigated). That’s why Al Franken isn’t in office anymore, even though he was more guilty of an appearance of wrongdoing more than actual wrongdoing.
I don’t know much about Taylor Swift, but I assume she is simply too smart to be conservative.
That is exactly correct
The problem is that plenty of smart people are conservative. Because conservatism is fundamentally a grift, and the smart ones use the dumb ones to get richer.
Swift just has enough empathy to realize she’s already rich.
You think any given political bloc isn’t mostly made up of people that think it’s an identity? If so, you’re lucky to not have run into it.
Frankly, most people stick with whatever they are raised with, and that’s that. There’s just as many blind, inherited democrats as republicans in the US. Most people don’t even understand the policy platform of their party, much less bother to challenge the correctness of it for themselves.
There aren’t two party platforms anymore. There’s one political party, and one cult. The cult doesn’t have policy. They make decisions to make the richest in the country richer, and keep their voting block scared over fabricated issues or issues they don’t care that much about. They had 12 years since 2002 to build a border wall, why is it always an issue? Is it because it’s just a grift to pay out construction companies? Maybe. They can’t win democratically so they go after votings rights and make sure the wrong people can’t vote. They exploit the very undemocratic nature of the electoral college and senate to hold a majority of the power with a minority of the overall popular vote. And when that all fails they don’t abandon their bastardized conservatism, they abandon democracy.
Alrighty then.
Gotta be real with you, it took several reads for this to not seem like someone ranting a conspiracy theory.
And it’s still a rant even after I figured out what you were on about. Which is fine! Rant awat, it’s a shitty situation for damn sure.
But you miss the point.
The point is that we’re mired in a two party system, and held there by the electoral method. The electoral college is whatever, but as long as it’s the whole first-past-the-post mechanism underlying it, it really doesn’t matter what the college does because nobody other than those two groups are getting in.
Which is what I’m complaining about. I’m sick of voting for the the lesser of two evils out of desperation. Whether you (or anyone) likes it or not, the DNC is only useful in comparison to the other party. Without the Republicans as a boogeyman, a supposed opposite rather than just the farthest right section, the democrats are still a bunch of capitalist assholes as whole. They’re still voting for shit in Congress that’s absurd, and they have been my entire life.
That the democrats are at least willing to give lip service to human rights is great, yay. But it isn’t like that’s been the case all along. They were just better than the “other” side.
Fuck the two party system, and fuck the electoral mechanism that allows it is what I’m saying.
I’ve never seen someone with Republican values call themselves a Democrat.
I’ve seen a lot of people with Democratic values call themselves Republicans.
Ms private jet is performatively liberal at best.
Nah that seems in line with the Democratic party leadership.
Uh what? Since when is Taylor Swift a party leader?
You have an internet connection, so you’re performatively liberal at best too. You don’t even think about people that can’t afford an internet connection, how can you be on the left?
In fact everyone on the internet is performative. That’s what everything on here is, someone’s performance. You could be Jeff Bezos for all anyone knows.
American “conservatives” are actually radicals by this point.
Neoconservative is the better term here.
I would disagree. I think the paleocons are just as insane
It does seem true that many hyper wealthy people trend fiscally conservative, surprise surprise, to guard their own wealth.
Entertainers seem to swing a little more left. Not sure what the ratio is compared to other wealthy people, there absolutely are plenty of conservative entertainers. I think quite a few of them spent time being poor while trying to win the fame lottery, and of course SAG and other unions are big in the entertainment world.
Anyway, not a huge surprise Swift is left leaning. The ones that are a bigger shocker are people like Garth Brooks or especially some of Dale Earnhardt’s progressive views.
Entertainment requires a lot of traveling and contact with lots of different people. That lends itself to leftwing viewpoints and thinking.
To them politics is not about ideas, or policies, or problem solving, or good governance. It’s all about identity.
I want to push back a little. Politics, or more specifically, political affiliation or advocacy of a specific political philosophy is part of one’s identity.
Their error, which also reveals a limitation of their capacity for abstraction, is that her background and other traits are sole determinants of her identity in political discourse, at least publicly.
This is a good example of “correlation doesn’t mean causation.”
LOL the idea that you should automatically be conservative because of wealth. They assume that everyone is just as selfish and unempathetic as they are.
I don’t think it’s exclusive to wealth.
That’s putting it mildly.
It’s all they have, honestly. Poor pathetic things.
I know I mentioned this a few days ago but some anonymous person on reddit said something like this a few years ago:
They [implying white supremacists] are just made she doesn’t want to be their blue eyed goddess spokesperson
You are just describing all Liberal ideologies (which modern conservatism is - I don’t mean liberal in the USA sense)… it’s all vibes and identity, it’s pure ideology without any material analysis. Things happen because of “ideas”.
I think the parentheticals are being lost on some.
Normally I’d take this chance to complain about liberals not being able to define liberal, but it’s more than a fair point these days that “conservatives” aren’t liberals anymore. They should be, to be “conservative” about the society they grew up in.
The modern American conservative now:
Hates liberals
Especially hates socialists
Rejects the idea of human rights
Rejects democracy
Wants to reestablish colonialism/strong imperialism
Wants an ethno state or theocracy
Is wildly nationalist and xenophobic
Anyone want to pipe in with what that actually makes them?
I don’t think so… people just don’t understand what I mean by liberal I guess. Not their fault, politics is totally fucked in the US.
To them politics is not about ideas, or policies, or good governance. It’s all about identity.
Oh my god, I am stunned by the hypocrisy and lack of self-awareness here. So they think the right is obsessed with identity? Get the fuck out of here. I’ve seen the contempt the left has for any conservative minority. They feel entitled to black or female votes.
The “left identity” is wanting everyone to have healthcare and education to struggle less. The “right identity” is quite loudly screaming about hurting the people they don’t like.
“The paradox of tolerance states that if a society’s practice of tolerance is inclusive of the intolerant, intolerance will ultimately dominate, eliminating the tolerant and the practice of tolerance with them.”
There is no paradox. Tolerance is a social contract which includes the tolerant. If someone is intolerant, they break the contract and are therefore not included in it.
They feel entitled to black or female votes.
Lol, this reductionist shit is dumb no matter who does it. Fastest or not. Though then fastests really fucking love it.
Not entitled, just surprised when people vote for anyone who openly hates them and wants to take away their rights.
When a lot of people that like that certain people are getting hurt and also don’t believe they won’t become the targets later.
Honestly, I understand what he means. She’s from a stupid rich family and grew up surrounded by country music influences. Statistically speaking, she probably would be a conservative.
I hope that Taylor Swift makes like a Dollywood type thing.
That would be so awesome.
I hope she parks her jet.
I’d probably make the trek.
It’s called gas lighting
So, I’m going to be that guy because it’s a pet peeve of mine.
It’s NOT called gas lighting. People like to throw that word around but it has one specific meaning, which has nothing to do with this situation.
Well, I guess it could have two meetings but the second one is literally lighting gas on fire.
Yeah, it is for when someone is literally trying to convince you that you are crazy, that things you know are true didn’t happen. Usually found in abusive relationships.
Fox isn’t convincing people they are crazy. They’re telling people everyone else is and they’re the only same ones, bolstering their confidence, and that drives a false narrative on its own
its insightful to be aware of what your supposed opponent is doing.
The higher the population moves up Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs, the fewer conservatives in the population.
The problem is that FOX isn’t conservative, it’s reactionary. Conservative fundamentally means that you stick to what you know works, so they should all be social democrats. Because that is what worked the last 70 years. Not neoliberalism or magnifying fringe social issues
Let me throw a counterpoint at you:
Taylor Swift is a lady who has had to work really hard and became the top of her field, who works hard to stay in shape, whose entire love life has been filled with unmanly men leaving her unfulfilled until she started dating the ultimate alpha chad where they have a relatively standard supportive relationship, whose career has been about producing competently produced uncontroversial works of status quo work, and not to mention her extremely conventional hairstyles, clothing, and make-up.
I mean, all those things lean conservative and not solely due to identity per se.
Working hard and staying in shape is conservative? I am pretty sure “exercise” is liberal mumbo-jumbo.
It depends which worldview you take on, but things like hard work and staying in shape have been called "fascist" by a left wing that sees any form of self-improvement as counter-revolutionary.
It seems to me that I was reading The Republic a couple weeks ago and Plato 2500 years ago was talking about the need for people to stay in shape in the gymnasium (not the same thing as today, but still a place to hone your body) so there's definitely precedent to call it conservative since it's a value held since antiquity.
“Self-improvement is masturbation, now self destruction…”
You left out the part where her daddy bankrolled her entire early career. That said, she has worked hard.
Biden: ‘If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re for me or Trump, then you ain’t black’
Fair enough…he said a goddamn stupid so let’s let a narcissistic Nazi who says much more horrific shit destroy the country so the ignorant masses can win against the non dip shit masses.
It’s tribalism, embraced by people who are proud of just barely graduating from animal status.
hol up. you’re saying “being conservative” is an identity to these people like “being insufferably against anything conservative or R” ISN’T part of 90% of Lemmy Users Identity?
Finding you insufferable isn’t part of my identity, it’s just a fact that you are insufferable.
There is no conservatism. It’s grifting and using identity politics to keep grifting. Everyone should be insufferable against grifting. It’s a big con. You’re being conned. Their figure head would be the poster child for everything they claim to hate if he decided to be a Democrat. East coast elitist, divorced, paid a porn star for sex, insults military heroes, checks off a laundry list of warning signs of the Antichrist. It’s downright comical.
No, you being thought insufferable has nothing to do with identity. At least, not anyone else’s identity. People are against conservatives and Republicans because they are massive hypocrites, racists, sexists, corrupt, thieves, transphobes, homophobes, and many other descriptors I don’t feel like mentioning.
Have you ever read I Can Tolerate Anything Except The Outgroup? If not, I suggest that you do.
Scott Siskind is probably not worth your time, rationalwiki.org/wiki/Scott_Alexander#Race_and_IQ among other things.
Okokimup@lemmy.world 8 months ago
The real identity politics were the Conservatives we met along the way.