Submitted 1 year ago by corbin@infosec.pub to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.spacebar.news/p/the-windows-11-problem
I could probably tolerate Windows 11 if:
the start menu search didn’t search the web and just searched my system.
Windows 10 has the same problem, that one isn’t unique to 11.
Widgets I don’t think there’s anything that can save that. 10% of the space is set aside for actual widgets, the rest is just their “news”.
Windows 10 was the start of the enshittification. Windows 7 was the best version of Windows, by far.
I used a regedit to fix the web search part of it. Starallback is what I use to fix the rest of it. After that, it’s almost like I’m using Windows 10.
Changing audio output does still take an extra click compared to before, but I’ve just been dealing with that.
There are debloating tools that do all of that for you in just a few clicks.
But why is that even necessary
Searching the web isn't that bad, it's on the bottom anyway, no? Or did they change that in Win11?
Still waiting for my taskbar changes, mainly.
This is definitely a personal preference thing but I think if you want to search the web, you go to the web browser. And if you want to search for a folder or file on the system, windows search should fulfill that purpose.
At the very least, it should be a toggle. The current implementation of Windows search feels like it’s only there to force people to use Edge
As others mentioned, there are ways to disable all of this shit incredibly easily. ShutUp10++ is my personal choice for debloating Windows 10 & 11. Now, should it need to be done in the first place? No, but I’d say installing the program is easier than learning a whole new operating system.
I can understand that sometimes hardware needs to be deprecated, but windows 11 is trying to ditch hardware that is still quite new. And with all the chip problems and expenses it has not been so feasible to "just" get something more up to date.
Yeah the hardware I’m running can easily run cyberpunk and any other modern game with satisfying FPS. Yet, it has no 8th gen CPU so I’m not able to upgrade. If I would upgrade my CPU just for win 11 I would have to replace my mainboard and then my GPU would bottleneck which would be, well, sad, so I would feel like I need to upgrade it too … And well, we know where this leads. I’m just not in for this ride just for Windows 11. I already use Linux on a different drive and prepare to fully switch to Linux. It’s just for gaming that I still use Windows and I feel like Linux could really “profit” from Microsofts decision to ditch Windows 10 under this conditions.
Most of those requirements are, to quote Captain Barbosa, “more what you’d call guidelines than actual rules.” Registry hacks can bypass the more specific CPU requirements and the TPM check, allowing older PCs to run Windows 11. That’s how I upgraded my gaming PC to Windows 11, which has a first-gen Ryzen CPU (just barely missing the Ryzen 2000 minimum), and it runs Windows 11 just as well as Windows 10. Maybe those hacked installations of Windows 11 will stop working at some point, or a future Windows 12 update will make those requirements actually required, but so far Microsoft hasn’t given any indication that will happen.
I found this part of the article interesting; it’s the first time I’m hearing about it. It’s nice to know that my old desktop won’t be stuck on Windows 10 once it’s deprecated, although it’s also… fucking ridiculous, to say the least. If it weren’t for two programs that WINE/proton can’t run, I’d already be on Linux right now.
Yep. I can literally buy brand new hardware that doesn’t run Windows 11 without an extra purchase (TPM module).
ITT: People who just read the headlines and not the article, and then going off on their own Windows rant/Linux evangelism instead of discussing the article.
A certified Lemmy/Reddit classic.
I hardly ever saw Linux evangelism on Reddit. It’s honestly becoming about on par with veganism at this point… And that’s coming from someone that uses and enjoys Linux.
I think it’s just an internet classic at this point.
I read the article and I still evangelize Linux.
I read the article! It suggests in a hundred different ways that Windows 11 sucks and that sticking it out with Windows 10 is a bad idea for a dozen different reasons.
The people here suggesting Linux nailed it. If you’re not using Linux at this point you’re just being lazy, IMHO. If you have any issues you can always just troubleshoot and fix it but based on the anecdotes posted so far it’s obvious no one claiming to have tried Linux has done much of that.
Get off your ass and learn something new for real or stop bitching and bend over for Microsoft with your wallet ready to pay them afterwards for the privilege.
People bitching about Windows on their personal PCs is like people who don’t vote bitching about politics.
No, I just want to use my time in other ways, thank you. You can call it lazy, but that's what it is. Windows 10 still works, the issues won't come till 2025, and regardless, Windows 11 issues are mostly personal preferences (I just want my task bar to work in a certain way).
This religious-like evangelising over Linux is such a turn off, regardless of whatever technical merits the OS might have. It's definitely not moving the needle for me, and it's turning me off the fediverse.
Putting this burden straight on the consumer is stupid. Most people don’t care about what’s running on their machines and have absolutely no interest in learning it. Same thing with cars, you know how to operate it and that’s enough for 95% of the people. I agree that Linux is not that hard to learn and understand but that’s already too much for the standard consumer.
The issue is and has always been with Microsoft and the deals it had with OEM and governments. It locked us into a Microsoft only world (office being absolutely everywhere, windows installed by default on 99% of hardware etc.), and things that were unveiled by the Halloween Papers etc… Microsoft changed its stance on FOSS but it’s only because they managed to profit from it (azure mostly). It’s still the same garbage company.
Linux is great but it’s not always an option. It doesn’t run every app or game that Windows has (Proton is great but it’s not 100%), or maybe you’re doing dev work that has to be on a Windows machine, or you’re using some hardware that isn’t supported well in Linux. I switched off Linux to Windows (and then later to macOS) partially because Photoshop and Lightroom are pretty great tools for my job and the workarounds/alternatives weren’t cutting it.
Every half a decade or so since windows 95 I have tried Linux and I have come to the same conclusion each time. I rather use windows 95.
If you’re not using Linux at this point you’re just being lazy
I used Linux for over twenty years and stopped about two years ago due to Linux invariably moving to lazy, poor development and design all the way from the kernel up. Rapid kernel development with tons of random new patches and ideas instead of the old way of maintaining a stable kernel and doing random patches and ideas on a separate branch (the odd minor versions vs. the stable even ones), systemd being more of a problem than a solution, the push for everything to move to Wayland forcing every single thing that has to do with lower level desktop interfaces, including all of the lightweight window managers, to completely rewrite themselves with tons of bloat that replaces everything X.org did by default as well as Wayland’s devs taking a “it works on my computer” approach to bugs and dismissing tons of major issues people have found, pipewire still not being a stable, reliable audio system (Linux has never had one, but using ALSA with the right hardware back in the day where everything would mix via hardware was a decent solution), distros becoming more and more unreliable and buggy (even “stable” and “long term support” ones), distros and developers giving up on native and running bare metal applications and substituting things like flatpak to run things natively with any sort of cross-platform reliability and fucking wine – essentially a new version of Windows running in Linux, which is an admission of failure to make a successful game platform if I’ve ever heard one – to run games, and on and on.
I’ve been able to use Linux very well until a few years back. I used to be one of its biggest advocates and wouldn’t dare run Windows.
No more. People bitch, moan, and complain about Windows 11 so much but for me, it just works. Simply, easily, no problem. Do I wish I still used Linux? Hell, yes. But am I given how bad it’s become? Nope. I’ve even tried going back here and there and quickly ran into the same huge list of problems and aches that were never there before and back to Windows I go.
Sorry, Linux is a pain and it’s not about being lazy, it’s about wanting to use a decent OS that just works as well as Linux used to.
A someone running a proxmox cluster on my gaming PCs, why not just use all of the above? Hell, I still have an XP VM on there somewhere for some particularly grouchy games.
Don't see a need, basically. What games require XP though? So far all my old games still work on 10.
The Windows 11 problem
The problem: Windows 11
FTFY
They used to say that 10 would be the last version and they’d just update that
It’s easier than ever to switch to Linux, especially if the thing holding you back was gaming.
i actually switched back to Windows from Linux because it didn’t work well with different resolutions and scaling and my Programs kept crashing.
Inb4 “it’d your fault” comments
same here. switched back after years of dual booting because on all my DEs over the years I consistently had these issues, not to mention I make music and daws fucking hate Linux / wine. just made sure to debloat it before I used it.
I saw in your other comment that you were using Gnome. A lot of people like it, but Gnome wouldn’t be my recommendation.
I use a multi-monitor setup not that different from yours, and KDE handles it swimmingly. I also have an Nvidia card and I’m using X.org. I probably could use Wayland, but I’m in no rush.
If you really want to stay with a GTK desktop, then XFCE is excellent also. Budgie too.
Prob a gnome issue, I’ve never had an issue with scaling on kde, xfce, or i3 with my 4 monitors
Interesting. Were you running Windows programs with Wine?
Feels like everyone advising to switch to Linux for gaming actually doesn’t play a bit on Linux
I stream the games I play on Linux. Feel free to check out my channel: twitch.tv/SylphWeed
Latest I played through was Horizon: Zero Dawn.
Yeah, no. You still can’t play as many games on Linux. Linux is wonderful for network related tasks, though! And it is certainly getting much better at supporting games.
Windows 11 definitely has its issues, but I don’t think the author of this article has sufficient knowledge to be writing articles about it.
There’s not a great solution for switching to UEFI in an existing install
MBR2GPT is baked into Windows and works great as long as you don’t have a jacked up partition layout.
Windows 11 demands a Trusted Platform Module (TPM) 2.0 security coprocessor, which isn’t in many PCs that meet all the other requirements.
Part of the reason that Intel 8xxx and Ryzen 2xxx processors are the baseline “requirement” is that they have fTPM 2.0 embedded in the silicon. It’s actually in the overwhelming majority of devices that meet the other requirements.
There appears to be no loss in functionality when bypassing the installation requirements… so why do they exist?
Microsoft could provide a more limited Windows 11 experience to PCs that don’t meet the strict requirements
By providing and sanctioning a “limited” experience, Microsoft would then have to dedicate resources to supporting that experience. I’ve worked with tons of legacy devices that had odd quirks that required workarounds in Windows 10, so I can’t really blame them for wanting to limit how they spend their support resources.
I second MBR2GPT. With a guide it’s quite straightforward to migrate from BIOS to EUFI but probably too scary for the average user.
No, you can’t blame them. You also can’t blame people for not upgradeing. The truth is picking totally arbitrary install requirements, especially ones that favour new hardware to high end ones alienated the early adopter base. Also microsoft killed any goodwill againtst them by bloating windows even more.
It’s not arbitrary. Securing an OS today is a huge challenge and Microsoft wants to leverage this tech to facilitate this. New hardware supports it, a lot of older hardware supports it and they strongly encourage this as the new standard.
Yes it means some people won’t update without workarounds but they are setting a standard moving forward and for supported hardware, they were quite aggressive with the upgrade (I had to make sure the TPM was disabled in BIOS on a machine I didn’t wish to upgrade early on).
I say we boycott windows 11
Already with ya! I’m never touching 11. I still use 10 for games, but debloated and telemetry disabled.
When I reformat I’m going Linux, with a small 10 partition for VR/games that run better on Windows.
Oh man, been doing that for 10 years!
I’ve stayed away from Windows 11 because of the bloatware and TPM requirements. Turns out, my old processor that was rejected by Microsoft actually had TPM 2.0, it just needed to be enabled from the BIOS. Well, I installed it a few days ago and everything look great. The bloatware was a problem but there are FOSS apps for that. The UI looks clean, the taskbar is uncluttered, and I feel stupid for not updating before. I don’t know if I’m the minority here but I think that for most users Windows 11 is easier and more accessible.
I would say there’s less bloatware that win10. None of that weird candy crush shit they pulled. I personally prefer 11, I use it on my work laptop but because of the TPM requirement my gaming PC that I had recently got a new motherboard for just before the requirements were announced, I’m still stuck on 10 with that.
I did too, until I got a new PC 😐
I updated as soon as I could. I’ve loved it since day one and now with Copilot it’s even better. I love it.
guess who’s jumping ship as soon as win10 acts up again? i’m not gonna pay a win11 subscription.
Windows 11 is not subscription...
Windows 11 soon gets more AI integration. Scanning all your files and content of files. Deleting your Microsoft account if it detects misbehavior, even if you never shared this private info with anyone. You’ll also not be able to program anything you want anymore, because if the AI detects it’s possibly malicious, it will delete your Microsoft account.
It’s probably a lot of fun if you have stuff on your onedrive or use outlook.
Why is there so little outrage about this? I hope it doesn’t release for win10 or is blockable.
I have not seen anything about Microsoft accounts getting deleted for AI falsely identifying something as malicious. Windows Defender and OneDrive do scan your files for malware, yeah.
wired.co.uk/…/windows-10-pirated-games-microsoft
Maybe you can you remind me what happened to this? Literally everyone who ran pirated games had their software disabled right? Right???
Stop trying to spread FUD for something they are not going to do. They’re just covering they’re asses as well as they legally can.
All I have to say: Windows 7 forever!
That’s a really well written article.
Looks like I’ll be going Linux. Better OS for casual use anyway.
And now we’ll get the “Just switch to Linux!” crowd.
Linux has come a long way, but it’s nowhere near being usable by the average user. Unless you’re willing to spend hours, days, even weeks learning all the commands and quirks it isn’t worth it. Linux is great and I’m sure it’ll get to that point someday, but it a replacement to Windows yet.
I don't need to read this article to know that the Taskbar Calendar/Agenda Flyout is still missing.
I’ve been gradually shifting over to Lenox ever since Windows 10 launched and even back in the days of Windows 7 really and the further Microsoft gets from its roots the closer I get to Lenox
They are giving up on UWP? Fuck yeah
qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Honestly, between the telemetry data collection, the strange hardware requirements, advertisements, bloatware, and unknown future licensing model, Linux is looking like an attractive option. At this point, I only use Windows for Office and gaming, and Linux + Proton has gotten really good lately. I don’t see a reason to use Windows on my personal machine any more.
OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We don’t use the word “Spyware” like we did twenty years ago. It’s baked into Windows now.
magic_lobster_party@kbin.social 1 year ago
They could bring back BonziBuddy and nobody would bat an eye
sweetchildintime@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Linux is fine for people like you and me who are comfortable installing our own operating system, and trouble-shooting any problems. Most ‘normal’ people though will continue to walk into a store, buy a laptop, and use whatever came installed.
Of course, the year of Linux on the desktop actually happened some time ago without anyone noticing. It’s called ChromeOS, and that’s a whole different can of worms.
SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
While true, how much troubleshooting does windows require? Because as I sometimes use windows, it’s not that much less work to get it to do what you want it to do, or solve issues, than linux.
Especially since it feels like windows tries to fight you every step of the way.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Once people get over the initial Windows indoctrination, Linux is simple to use and doesn’t require tons of complex troubleshooting like people think. Before the COVID lockdown I tried for the Nth time to get my dad to use Linux. I had it installed and told him to stick with it for a few weeks (he only browses the web and plays solitaire). If he still didn’t like it, I’d reenable Windows. Well that few weeks turned into 6 months. Now both he and my mom have been happy Linux users for about 2 years.
qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 1 year ago
To add to that, Android is likely the overwhelming market share of Linux-based operating systems in use today. For that matter, an absolute ton of Intel CPUs have Minux installed on them too, but I wouldn’t call this “on the desktop”, just interesting.
Cold_Brew_Enema@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Imagine sounding this elitist because of an operating system you use
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Until you realize that many orgs have software that only works on windows.
Its not a great situation
superduperenigma@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Storage is super cheap these days. Just buy an extra hard drive for Windows and boot into that on the rare occasion you truly need to use Windows. Or just use a VM.
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Corporations have access to a version of windows that doesn’t have telemetry, advertisements or bloatware. Its called Enterprise Edition.
hperrin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve worked as a SWE at Facebook, Google, and LinkedIn, and none of the devs I worked with used Windows. Everyone either used Mac or Linux. It’s just a matter of time before the dev world bleeds out into the consumer world.
corbin@infosec.pub 1 year ago
The subscription rumor was debunked pretty quickly. I honestly don’t see that happening anytime soon, PC makers would get pretty upset (especially if they don’t get a cut of the revenue).
ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No, it’s coming. And for thin clients it’s already here.
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Do it. I only use Windows to play my heavily modded copy of Skyrim and now Starfield. Everything else has been Linux for years.
qwertyqwertyqwerty@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I was using Mint for a while but the system got hosed. I plan on modding Starfield, and there was another game I can’t recall that wouldn’t work on Linux. After I best Starfield I fully expect to wipe my system again and go with a more stable distro of Linux (e.g. Gentoo or something).
twack@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I have been playing both of those on proton with little issue, and I’m not positive that the issues I experienced are exclusive to linux.