Submitted 3 weeks ago by xkcdbot@lemmy.world [bot] to xkcd@lemmy.world
https://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/electric_vehicles.png
Title text:
Now that I’ve finally gotten an electric vehicle, I’m never going back to an acoustic one.
Transcript:
Transcript will show once it’s been added to explainxkcd.com
Source: xkcd.com/3214/
A car powered by gasoline? It’ll never take off. I mean, what will you do if it runs out of gas? Start a war in the middle east?
Also imagine the logistics! You would have to refine the oil, get it from places all over the world and distribute it to all the gas stations all over the country. With electric cars you can just tap the already existing power grid.
I seem to recall that back in the day there were electric cars before gasoline ones, and that was an argument at the time. Electricity was already becoming ubiquitous and putting up more wires was pretty easy compared to the logistics needed for gas production, transport, storage and dispensing. Gas won out due to the fact that it’s energy density was so much higher compared to batteries of the time… and probably a lot of lobbying by people invested in that stuff.
Not to speak of the fact, that you cannot fill up at home or every other lamp post. You have to drive to designated stations to find gasoline. Ridiculous! What if the next station is too far to reach it, before you run out?
Plus, have you seen all the iron and other metals that have to be mined shipped, refined, shipped, and then made in to parts, shipped again, and then assembled, and finally shipped to the dealer for a single ICE car?
Even better…the oil is not sold on the free market of supply demand economics, they actually have price fixing cartels.
Luckily the best factorio players of the world ganged up and solved it
A car powered by gasoline? It’ll never take off.
Well, it’s a car, not a plane.
Crazy concept, fill you car with a huge tank of explosive and toxic liquid, and if you leave the car running on a closed garage the fumes will kill you! Get this, they have to drive all that liquid around in large tanker trucks.
Do they think we’re stupid?
For the blackout concerns: if you have solar panels, irrelevant, actually you’d be in a better place than with an ICE car. Also, if you have a garage, a fairly powerful generator cost peanuts compared to the price of a car, and some can run on gas cilinders and gasoline. Way safer to store gas cilinders than gas.
Long drives. Decades ago I drove with my ex and my in laws from Madrid to Brussels in one go. 2 of us taking turns.I swore to never do more than 800 Km in one go. We did it in a largish car, pretty comfortable. Yeah, no.
People conveniently forget that gas pumps are powered by electricity also. A person with solar panels and an ev is going to be in a much better situation in a large scale power outage than someone with a gas car.
My next car is going to have physical fucking knobs and buttons.
I’m not buying another car with a tablet to control the media and the climate, regardless of power source. If I have to buy a 10 year old rust bucket I will. I’m not going back to the tablet until there’s literally no other option available.
Recyclability: most of ICE cars are recyclable,
There’s no reason to expect this will be any different with EVs. There are already companies claiming better recycling rates, but they can’t scale up yet_because there are not enough retired EVs_
Most places with solar panels hooked up to the grid, you can’t use the power from them when the grid is down. Safety thing so you aren’t back feeding into the grid.
I have 25 and 23 year old cars. Pretty much the only thing that would cause me to get rid of them would be a crash or the frame rusting out.
I’ve replaced motors and rebuilt trans on each of them respectively. And I’ll continue doing that. Parts are still easily accessible and when they aren’t anymore, pretty much everything is metal and a machine shop can fab something up.
It’s a valid argument if you don’t live near good charging infrastructure. I have an EV in an area with ample charging. But when we went to visit my in-laws who live in a more rural area, it was a big challenge. The only chargers around were so slow that it would take 24+ hours to charge the car. And if you run out, you can’t get someone to bring a can of gas.
In an urban area, I love the reduced maintenance and not getting gas. On a road trip with kids, I don’t love killing half an hour in a grocery store with my kids amassing armloads of candy faster than I can put it back.
EVs are great, but we can’t automatically dismiss any complaint a hesitant person has.
In all seriousness, the transition of small devices away from AA/AAA batteries is very annoying. I always had batteries charged, now I have to constantly plug some junk in and wait?
I will get an EV when the range/charge speed will allow me to make it 7 miles in 24 hours. And maybe if they’re small enough to fit in a passenger train.
These are the vehicles to have in the Apocalypse. Carry your own solar panels and charge it. No need to get fuel since gasoline only stays fresh for 6 months.
Costco: 4000 pack of kirkland brand AA batteries…
I only drive acoustic cars. They sound even better
I got an EV last year and I woulld never go back. It’s just so much better.
I’m sure charging stations exist, but I’ve only ever seen one with my own eyes once (Brazil, major city)
You toss it out and get a new one of course!
I’m hesitant to get an electric vehicle because I don’t currently have anywhere to charge near my condo. My condo parking spot isn’t near a building, so it would probably be a pain to charge from there. I’d be interested if my office had some charging stations.
Until then, I’m quite happy with my old Prius. It goes, stops, and steers as needed, no complaints. Catalytic converter has only been stolen once.
Huge depreciation and not enough range. Probably wait till next battery revolution and it becomes cheaper than ICE
Plugable hybrids are a good compromise, when people remember to actually plug them in and run on electric when they don’t need to travel long distances.
EVs as they are now, are only useful for rich people, for two reasons.
Electric cars are essentially disposable, where they are expected to be destroyed or “recycled” instead of repaired.
Ofc rich people buy new cars every few years anyway, so it’s not an issue for them.
A gasoline car can be fueled in 30 seconds + 2 minutes to pay, and there’s usually a line at most service stations. Even if there’s mass adoption and all gas stations were converted into EV chargers, even if it only takes 10 minutes to charge an EV, that is 12 minutes per person, it would still amplify the queue to the point where it would be impossible to get anything charged.
Ofc rich people can just charge in their backyard or garage at night, so not an issue for them either.
The problem is that what you actually do a roadtrip, (and you’re not charging at home on a normal “commute” day) is sit on your ass and do absolutely nothing for 45 to 90 minutes at a gas station in the middle of fucking nowhere, hoping no hick “jeds” see you hanging out at the Tesla charger and approach you to tell you that “yuu got a perddy mouf”.
He was one of that days lucky 10000
I will get an electric vehicle when the range/charge speed will allow me to make it 1200 miles in 24 hours, and the battery will last longer than 7 years.
I can kinda get the range anxiety comments though - it sucks having to keep daisy chaining extension leeds to go further.
Gonna get blasted for this, given the overall sentiment here in the comments towards EVs, but EVs are going to be used to monitor people everywhere they go and have killswitches, and other shit I’d not wanna deal with.
I like cars, I like the idea of EVs, I fucking hate modern cars (post 08 give or take) so imagine my opinions on most EVs. Just give me an electric Mule or a converted old beater I’ll be happy, if it’s basically anything else I better have the capacity to turn it into an EV equivalent of a dune buggy because I do not respect modern car design in the slightest, don’t care if it’s Chinese, Japanese, European, or American they all have shitty interiors an over reliance on electronics and generally have too many “comfort” features designed to compensate for incompetent design or drivers.
Well if you run out of power it is easier to get someone to bring a container of gas than to get a truck filled with batteries to come and charge you for 30 min. The US has LOTS of large, rural areas with very poor EV support. Half the time the EV lots near me have some sort of problem and are shut off. They make more sense for dense, urban areas where you do lots of short trips and have access to high speed chargers.
My arguments against EV, not sorted by anything:
And about 4:
This winter we had a small funny problem that two TIRs decided to play overtake on a frozen road and crashed, blockimg whole road. People spent 12 hours standing in line and not really able to get out from what I heard. ICE cars once turned off in that scenario would not give a frick about temps, but wouldn’t EVs have problems with their battery discharginf either due to cold or due to fighting the cold?
But all in all, I still would like EV car lol. In my use case - that is either driving in my hometown or driving to the next bigger city over, they make a lot of sense. Although I can’t afford any car anyway xD
had a regular 110 plug adapter and extension cord. plug in anywhere but takes longer than charge station. never used it in 20,000 miles. about same as a gasser. hit 1/4 tank stop and fill up. imagine the switch from horses to gas was hard to figure out for a while.
user.user.age = “9000”; Done.
OK then what do you do if there are no chargers in range?
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
As an EV owner, I have recieved an interesting amount of reasons why people won’t buy them:
After this, they usually proceed to make absurd claims like “I don’t care, I just don’t trust EVs.
Tja@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Very much similar to my own experience. The blackout is the funniest, because gas stations don’t work in a blackout, while solar panels do (assuming you disconnect them from the grid).
I would add one:
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
Oh, yeah! I forgot that one!
When you ask them how many times they found themselves with a thermic car doing 1000km without stopping they usually tell you: never, but what if I had to?
Bitch, if you need to do 1000km without stopping, you should be taking a train or a plane. Driving 10-12 hours without a single stop is bad and dangerous.
elvith@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
The only somewhat valid use case for “driving 1.000km without a stop” would be several people in the car taking turns on the driver’s seat. While you’d technically need to stop to switch drivers this in itself is way quicker than even a quick charge on paper.
BUT: considering traffic jams, speed limits and such - a 1.000km trip would take around 10+ hours anyway. You’re not going to tell me that you do not even stop to pee or stretch a bit for 10+ hours, do you?
OddMinus1@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
My father in-law uses that added argument all the time. Who the hell needs to drive for 10 hours straight without taking a 30 minute break.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
What ICE car goes 1000km without filling up?
Demdaru@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
…do US statioms not have their own generators?
pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Another point to add for 9, all the EV parts can be recycled. The metal body is recycled in to new cars and battery components are also recycled in to new batteries.
Relevant technology connections video
www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtQ9nt2ZeGM
blauergrashalm@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
My reason for not buying an EV: it’s still a fucking car. Bit less shit, but still shit.
That should be Number 1 Reason to not buy an EV!
Allero@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Agreed! EVs are certainly superior to ICE cars, but they’re a band aid instead of a solution.
Bring back public transit!
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well yeah if you can avoid it you shouldn’t buy a car, but if you have to buy a car you should buy electric
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
I mean, technically, an eBike is an Electric Vehicle, and not a fucking car. Otherwise, hard agree.
bstix@feddit.dk 3 weeks ago
Fuck cars alright, but as long as I’m dependant on a car, my no.1 reason to get an EV is that I hate the oil industry even more. Fuck their oil and money and pollution and fuck their wars and politics.
PixTupy@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
With point 2 you can now use a real life case. Last year the Iberian peninsula had a blackout that lasted more than a day. The combustion engine cars could not pump petrol because guess what: pumps need electricity.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 3 weeks ago
Eh? What if there’s a gas supply issue? Can’t fuel up. I’ve experienced this after a natural disaster disrupted gas deliveries. Lines for blocks. Days to wait.
purplemonkeymad@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Not to mention what if someone does something silly like start a war and push the price of oil up. Solar does not increase in price after it’s made.
drosophila@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
You can’t refuel a gas car without electricity anyway, the pumps are electric.
RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It sounds crazy, but I’d sit and wait the five minutes, much like I’ve done for pumps on occasion.
Jolteon@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
My argument: When I can get a decent used EV for $5k, I’ll do it. Until then, I’ll just get a decent used ICE car for $5K.
AA5B@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I always thought this was one of the reasons for an EV incentive. Encourage more people like me to buy the expensive ones to develop the market, guaranteed demand for manufacturers, but that also gets us faster to the point of cheap used EVs
turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 2 weeks ago
Haven’t seen anything decent at that price. You’ll be fine as long as you just drive in a city and keep the temperature of your car reasonable. If not, you’ll need to spend at least twice as much to get something decent.
The prices coming down though. We’re actually pretty close reasonable right now.
Wrrzag@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
This is me. I have a hybrid car and I miss the stick every time I drive it.
AA5B@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The problem is those days are gone, even without EVs. Between modern automatics more efficient and longer lasting, and cheap reliable CVTs (also more efficient), manual transmissions have no future. I also prefer driving a stick, and frequently complained about limited availability in the US, but technology has passed it by
BastingChemina@slrpnk.net 3 weeks ago
I’ve been there, I did manual -> hybrid -> electric.
I did miss the stick when I was driving an hybrid. In the hybrid it felt like was I had to give away some of the control I had on the car by not being able to change gear.
With the EV on the other hand it’s totally different, the car is way more responsive, there is power the moment I press the pedal and the concept of gear disappear.
I don’t miss driving with a stick when driving an EV
turboSnail@piefed.europe.pub 3 weeks ago
Here’s a financial argument. The initial purchase price is too high for me, and the depreciation of electric vehicles is also very high. Overall cost of ownership per distance driven is lower if I drive a small gasoline-powered car.
I really don’t want it to be that way, but that’s the reality I have to deal with. Cheaper EVs are coming, but they still aren’t in my price range.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Must be a Europe thing. I ran the numbers in America and avoiding gas cost (vs electric cost per mile) means the car paid for itself after 30k miles. And that’s ignoring that it needs no maintenance.
I thought European gas was expensive. Is the electricity over there also really pricey?
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
slightly used EVs are cheap as chips in NA. I don’t get people who whine about car prices then only buy new cars.
trxxruraxvr@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
My reason: the hybrid I have is still working fine and a new car and a new car won’t be in my budget for the next 10 years or so. Also iirc about 33% of the energy a typical car will ever use is spend on its production, so it’s better for the environment to use a car until it breaks down.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
that’s completely fine. If your car works, you shouldn’t throw it away, that is wasteful.
Honytawk@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
2: I wonder what those people think a gas pump runs on?
If there is no electricity, then those won’t pump either.
Electricd@lemmybefree.net 3 weeks ago
For a lot of people it’s number 7 and I mean, that’s sad
1 is real though, and it can be a pain
There’s also the case where some areas are isolated and there’s no charger nearby and that can be a pain, and yea, that’s not a good spot to be in
Finally, if you can’t charge at home, you’re not really going to save on electricity price compared to fuel, so that’s not the best purchase, and it might be a pain to charge frequently outside if you have an cheap car that charges slowly
bufalo1973@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
In the worst case scenario, charging is almost the same price for the same distance. In the best case (at home) is 10x cheaper.
Successful_Try543@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
They couldn’t refuel their ice car either or how do they think the fuel is made to flow “uphill” from the tank in the ground into their car.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The best argument against the blackout bit: Ukraine
Every single used budget EV was bought up by Ukrainians when the war started. Nissan Leafs, older Hyundai Ioniqs, Renault Zoes
Gas stations were bombed and the whole logistic chain for delivering gasoline and diesel was disrupted or prioritised for the military
But everyone had power at least for a part of the day, so they could charge EVs.
SapientLasagna@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
If it helps, my EV technically has a manual transmission. 100% of gear shifts are manual (it only has a single reduction gear).
MousePotatoDoesStuff@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I wonder how many of those would not apply to hybrid cars.
Also, for 8: Making car go by burning fuel in a big optimised plant is likely more efficient than doing it in an engine that has to fit inside the car.
Ziglin@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I feel like some of those points are slightly more valid in rural areas (especially in the US, where a power pole being knocked over means that the power is out for hours) where the people making those points are more likely to have grown up. Then again if you are not in a rural point of the united states you are less likely to need a car.
llii@discuss.tchncs.de 3 weeks ago
If I lived in rural US where the power is not guaranteed I would install PV and use my car as a power backup.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
What if everyone woke up at about the same time and plugged in their toasters to make breakfast? ARMAGEDDON.
ICE cars grow in fields, that’s just science.
The EV battery will wear out and cost eleventy million dollars to replace, and we have to throw all the old batteries in rivers.
EVs catch fire! no way gasoline could catch fire!
and finally, what happens if you give up on life and want to end it all? Can’t die in a sealed garage with an EV running!
SorryQuick@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
The major complaint I hear is that it takes forever to charge. It’s fine for commuting if you charge at home/work, but sounds a bit rough for road trips and the likes.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Depending on the car and budget: It totally is.
At work we have a VW eUP.
Charges at a snail pace (¼ = 60-90ish km at 2-3h).
Yes it’s fine most of the time but if we swap it between on-site visits one really has to wait or risk not coming home (and don’t get me started on the landmine of charging infrastructure).
German news about the whole infrastructure: youtu.be/GQ2hbLzfQ54
TLDW: Close a contract with one provider (e.g. your supplier at home), pay tripple the amount because that charging station is from another provider. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bluetreefrog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s a different way of travelling. With an ICE I would pull into an ugly service station, buy fuel and shit food/drink, go to a disgusting toilet and then get straight back on the road. No smelling of flowers.
Now it’s the interesting, funky cafe’s/restaurants along the route that are adding fast chargers. I pull in there, have a nice coffee or meal, and then continue on my way.
It’s a much more pleasant way to do a trip. More chilled. More ‘touching the grass’.
AbsolutelyNotAVelociraptor@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Most cars come with fast charge in DC. You can add a good amount of range in like 15-20 minutes. The ones not coming with fast charge are mostly city cars that don’t need it anyways.
Sineljora@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I didn’t see this one: I’ll never buy a car made after 2011 for privacy reasons. (As well as repairability)
It seems like my best bet is to retrofit an older petrol car. I’d spend a lot, probably even more than what a new car costs in cash, but I haven’t found a great ev swap plan yet, so hopefully in the future. I’ve saved a couple of totaled cars from the scrapyard so far.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
My 2028 car has no privacy issues. Also, I DGAF about people knowing I drive to and from work.
lepinkainen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My dream car is one of those UN spec Toyota Land Cruisers that can run on any dirt water that resembles diesel
offgridweb.com/…/toyota-gibraltar-the-secret-fact…
They don’t meet any emissions requirements though so they’re fully illegal in any western countries 😅
fartographer@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
To point 5: there are companies that sell electric crate motors, pre-configured to couple with your transmission’s bell housing. Hell, some of these companies sell the entire conversation kit, or will do the entire conversation for you. These conversions give you a completely offline electric car that keeps an older car from going to a junkyard, and reduces the materials needed for an updated car on the road. Also, if someone is concerned that a new electric car has the same carbon footprint as an internal combustion vehicle, recycled and reclaimed batteries are an incredible option.
If you’re going to do one of these conversions on a standard transmission car, you’ll probably want to pay some professionals anyway to tune it so that you don’t shred your clutch when you shift. I almost did this with my old '95 Explorer, but it had some suspension issues that I wasn’t willing to tackle at the same time. Plus, my neighbor told me that one of his friends had their car destroyed in a flood, but talked about how they always wanted a classic Explorer in exactly my color, so I gave it to her.
AA5B@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I actually have been in similar scenario, but one hour charging at home will get me to any such place.
The complaint may be that it’s an emergency but how often can you not even wait an hour? Especially since it’s half gone by the time I unload the car, use the rest room, etc