Anarchy is very cool, until someone has the wrong opinion.
fascists aren’t allowed on leftist spaces. no good comes from that.
The same people who rage against authority love moderating communities where their ideology is the only one allowed
Submitted 10 hours ago by Voidian@lemmy.dbzer0.com to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Comments
umbrella@lemmy.ml 4 hours ago
definitely_AI@feddit.online 10 hours ago
Looking at you, leftymemes
ugh
groupthink central, do NOT divert an inch from the state sanctioned opinions, OR ELSE
yucandu@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
It’s all fun and games until you say that China is wearing socialism as a cloak the same way America wears Christianity or Israel wears anti-semitism.
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 8 hours ago
I’ve seen better moderation in .ml instances.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 6 hours ago
Wataba@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
Dbshitters are alt-left and should be treated in the same way as any libertarian nutjob.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 4 hours ago
I don’t love moderating my communities at all. I barely even read the reports. 🤷♂️
SalamenceFury@piefed.social 6 hours ago
You know that anarchism doesn’t mean no rules right? It just means no rulers, but that’s not how it works on Lemmy or any social media of this type for that matter.
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 3 hours ago
It just means no rulers, but that’s not how it works
…anywhere in reality.
SalamenceFury@piefed.social 2 hours ago
Humans spent thousands of years without rulers. Also, look at all the grassroots organizations trying to stop fascism in America right now.
Leaders are dispensable AND disposable. We do not need them.
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 10 hours ago
unmoderated internet spaces are quickly overrun with bigotry, csam, and spam.
if, in the name of “free speech”, you only moderate the csam and spam, the space will be primarily occupied by people looking for a forum that welcomes bigotry.
respect to dbzer0 for rm’ing bigotry and not letting childish anarchist free speech ideals cause lemmy.dbzer0.com to be a nazi bar 🥂
Voidian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 hours ago
It’s a misunderstanding of anarchy to equate it with either total chaos or total control. True anarchism is about opposing coercive authority, not creating a new, rigid authority that dictates what discourse is acceptable.
You can absolutely oppose bigotry and harm (which are coercive actions) without resorting to silencing anyone who doesn’t conform to a specific ideological viewpoint. Genuine community defense is about voluntary association and preventing harassment, not about restricting the exchange of ideas.
chosensilence@pawb.social 10 hours ago
you’re applying this to an internet community that has no real world interaction as a group. i think it’s okay to be authoritarian on your own channel lol.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Eh?
Coercive authority is how we enforce rules that not everyone agrees with. Rules like “don’t rape your kids”. The answer shouldn’t be “they get their own community but we kick them out of ours”, right?
yucandu@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Yeah the problem is that these people are deciding that “I am a nazi and I think white people are the supreme race and I want to install a fascist state” and “I don’t think China is actually socialist” are both nazi, fascist, bigoted speech, and then people like you are saying “no that doesn’t happen they only go after the bad stuff every single time and never get anything wrong”.
plyth@feddit.org 9 hours ago
They banned me for asking if fascism with human right could be possible.
The interesting part is that it could be that despite the west’s support for human rights we could already be in a form of fascism. But that discussion could’t be had because the question already triggered a ban.
So I think banning helps to keep an instance clean but it also prevents intereting discussions.
berg@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
Migrants and refugees are under constant attack throughout the west. The US has secret police racially profiling, beating, killing, illegally kidnapping and disappearing people. Civil rights are rapidly being restricted and rolled back. Israel does a genocide and bombs every county in it’s vicinity while the west offers it’s boots, bombs, and blessings.
The west doesn’t support human rights, and the fascists are already in power.
silosong@lemmy.zip 8 hours ago
Wataba@sh.itjust.works 9 hours ago
ml retard praising the dbshitters, how unsurprising.
Go lick Putin’s boots you traitorous turd.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 3 hours ago
Cope
db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 hours ago
and not letting childish anarchist free speech ideals
It’s ironic you state it like this, since we are an explicitly anarchist server ;)
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 2 hours ago
It’s ironic you state it like this, since we are an explicitly anarchist server ;)
it’s not really ironic as i am well aware that you are and i appreciate you for that :)
what i’m saying is that i’m glad that, despite obviously being a (fellow!) proponent of freedom of expression, you haven’t fallen victim to the childish line of thought which leads some people to let their spaces become nazi bars. so: thanks!
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 7 hours ago
People keep setting up these Punching bars and then get mad when their patrons get Punched.
Amnesigenic@lemmy.ml 3 hours ago
Toddler thoughts
TwodogsFighting@lemdro.id 9 hours ago
Some of those who moderate postses!
Dr_Fetus_Jackson@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
*Tom Morello has entered the chat
Kolanaki@pawb.social 4 hours ago
Bert Kreischer has been banned from the chat
fizzle@quokk.au 9 hours ago
I have a pretty low opinion of moderators generally.
In the vast majority of cases, the people who actually want to be moderators are precisely the worst kinds of people to do the job.
Of course there are exceptions but all too often they’re doing it because they like the power and attention.
adhd_traco@piefed.social 7 hours ago
I think many people feel this way, and I think in many cases another thing that plays into it is not realising the amount of good moderators, because good moderation usually doesn’t make as much noise as when it’s bad.
If I think of all the communities in lemmy/piefed I like, the perfect/near perfect moderation from my browsing heavily outweighs anything problematic.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 3 hours ago
I remember I was an administrator, and the moderator threatened to ban me. That was fun, I was like “Oh no, please don’t”. And I just played along.
As an administrator, I had only 2 modes: Not sure, can’t ban this person without more evidence, and “that is a liability, shut down the server!”. So I didn’t react to most things that were done, even if they were technically against the rules. Then when I became the owner, I set a pol for people to decide if I should just delete the server, because I knew I didn’t have the time to make sure some truly heinous stuff does not happen.
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social 7 hours ago
How do you see overly heavy opinion based moderation if you’re never the target of it? You don’t. You just see communities that are weirdly same-think. Though I bet you’d jist dismiss it as a consequence of the fediverse already self-selecting for a certain type, but that is wrong.
There is bad moderation all over the place, but you don’t see it, because many mods/admins prefer to ban and delete than to let the vote system do its job.
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
You have to lick the correct footwear.
yucandu@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Just tell them that moral absolutism benefits the status-quo.
Because it’s true. It does. I think it’s actually a psyop by the capitalists to prevent socialism ever taking a foothold or affecting their money. Capitalists are afraid of positive incremental change, so they tricked leftists into being afraid of it too.
Waveform@multiverse.soulism.net 1 hour ago
the spiciest take
nobody wants to change the game, they’re just mad that they’re not winning it
Paragone@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Aannndddd… people “wonder why” nothing changes, when THEIR pack/herd/tribe gains power, or when another’s does: it just goes 'round & 'round & 'round, again.
Until one has fundamentally altered one’s own unconscious-mind,
altering one’s own nature,
then the same nature as what created the problems we’re caught-in, is all one has to wield.
“physician, 1st heal thyself” is the key, but nobody’s got the guts to enforce the deep transformation.
( & I’m saying that while having failed to break unconscious-ignorance from this-incarnation/life, thus-far, myself, for decades.
It isn’t easy, but if one never tries, it’ll never have more than 0% chance of happening.
it’d be easier in a culture which accepted such transformations as valid, fersure, but that got eradicated by materialism, didn’t it? )
aka Spot-on, Voidan@lemmy-dbzer0.com , spot-on.
( :
_ /\ _
Voidian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 hours ago
Aannndddd… yeah. The “round and round” is what happens when we mistake performative rebellion for actual change. Most of us know the system’s broken, but we’d rather rage at the symptoms than admit we’re part of the pattern. You’re dead right about the “physician, heal thyself” bit, except nobody wants to do the boring work of actually examining why they crave control, whether it’s over a Lemmy community or a state. Easier to just slap a label on the ‘enemy’ and call it a day.
True rebellion against fascism starts with the self.
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 3 hours ago
It’s not possible, because anyone who realizes “I am the nazi” and enforces justice, is dead, or worse. You won’t be hearing these voices of reason, unless they did well from the start.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Which of these best describes your opinion that the Anarchists disapprove of?:
Sexism,
Racism,
White Supremacy (or any ethnic-supremacy),
Homophobia (or any sexuality-phobia),
Fascism,
Genocide,
Drug-phobia,
Ethnic-, gender-, sexuality-, ableist-, etc., based slurs,
Oath-taking or pledge-taking.
Voidian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 hours ago
Did you intentionally skip over the parts that you don’t like in Anarchist thought?
Degrading, disrespecting, or insulting another person or group of people, because of their : Gender or Gender Identity, Ethnicity, Immigrant status, Religion, Sexuality, Language, Physical appearance or body size, Substance or medicinal use, Disability, Age, Acceptance of any unfavorable or disfavorable group, whether this group is political, economic, social, or cultural.
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Buffet Anarchists.
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
But even in this context, who were you degrading and why?
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
I just copied from the link you shared. 🤷🏻♂️
definitely_AI@feddit.online 10 hours ago
“If you are not as extreme in your views against these things as I am, then that means you are in favor of those things and will be banned”
Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Oh. That’s not anarchy, that’s somebody being an asshole.
Paragone@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
SuperEars
Critical Thinking.
( & your selective-framing which leaves-out the actual-problem, can go eat rocks )
Archy is the hierarchy that civilization uses as its skeleton & nervous-system.
Hierarchy was the original, & the Hierarch was the original top-person.
Got a brain in your body??
THAT is archy.
The people who pretend that no-archy is the ideal, ignore the blunt fact that within their own bodies, they eradicate anarchy, allowing ONLY archy to operate, because it is orders-of-magnitude more effective & viable & healthy.
& they pretend that anarchy ought rule the world.
Parent-child relationship: ought that be archy, or no-archy?? Toddler wants to take the car for a spin, & parent-boss won’t allow that?? Archy.
Ought aviation be unregulated, in anarchy, or regulated, in archy?
How about licensed surgeons? No-archy/no-regulation, XOR archy/regulations?
How about manufacturing? No-regs/no-archy? or regs/archy?
The ideological won’t-know/intentional-ignorance in both right & left is stunning.
And some of us are sick of all of it.
Yoga, not communist-party-imperialism, not no-archy-fuzzbrainedness-which-ignores-how-even-our-bodies-work, & not personal-imperialism/fascism, but yoga, the harnessing & binding in efficient & effective coherent-directional-harmony, is the right way.
( :
_ /\ _
LurkingLuddite@piefed.social 6 hours ago
lol
If you’re losing the battle of wisdom against a toddler, perhaps there is a reason to listen to that toddler…
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
It’s true.
Just try having a discussion about Age or ID Verification or the Brave Browser and see how quickly you get dogpiled and downvoted to hell if what you think isn’t the accepted orthodoxy.
Wildmimic@anarchist.nexus 4 hours ago
If your opinion is that Age verification is a good thing or the Brave Browser isn’t a product of a company which has a right-wing homophobe as CEO then your opinion is colliding with hard facts.
Age Verification is simply deanonymization of the internet through the backdoor, raising a lot of privacy and cybersecurity questions. Paradoxically, it creates security risks for the children “being protected”.
Brendan Eich is NOT a good person. He is a verified homophobe , conspiracy theorist and his browser, even if it’s currently a good deal for the end user, is under constant pressure from shareholders to produce more revenue. It is therefore prone to enshittification in the future. Also, even if the browser blocks third party trackers by default, should you opt in to Brave ads, there is local behavioral tracking and tokenized reporting going on , which enables indirect tracking.
You have your right to your opinion. You don’t have the right to be shielded from criticism for your opinions, and it is the in the literal job description for a moderator to curb misinformation to ensure the health of a community.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Thank you for reply. I hope you have a lovely Sunday.
BonkTheAnnoyed@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 hours ago
Okay, I’ll bite. I need to add to my block list anyway.
Y’all have heard of the Nazi Bar problem, right? Paradox of intolerance? Which turns out not to be a paradox after all? You should def look that one up rather than waiting for me to type it all out.
Voidian@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 hour ago
People like to refer to the paradox of tolerance but always skip out on the inconvenient bit:
““Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them.
— In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be most unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols.
We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant.””
BonkTheAnnoyed@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 minutes ago
Just to let you know before I block you, I didn’t read your “reasonable disagreement” of a wall of text
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml 30 minutes ago
it’s not that people can’t, but spaces which have unlimited tolerance for sealions suggesting that it’s necessary to are likely to have less interesting discussions than spaces which do not 🙄
Waveform@multiverse.soulism.net 44 minutes ago
i think people not knowing how to actually win an argument against a bigot is exactly the reason there are so many these days shit’s easy. not that they’ll admit defeat but getting them babbling irrational nonsense takes very little debating skills. and when they inevitably start throwing ad hominems, then the mods have legitimate grounds to kick them out.
bestboyfriendintheworld@sh.itjust.works 2 hours ago
Lemmy is a Tankie Bar.
BonkTheAnnoyed@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 minutes ago
Okay, that’s just funny. Hi friend
Evotech@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
So how is that different when it’s online vs offline?