If you receive a high medical bill, don't pay it immediately. Ask for an itemized bill first.

Submitted ⁨⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨mudkip@lemdro.id⁩ to ⁨youshouldknow@lemmy.world⁩

Most hospitals send a summary bill (for example pharmacy: $5,000) hoping you’ll panic and just pay it. These are usually full of errors or huge markups. Before you pay anything, call the billing department and ask for an itemized bill with CPT codes. This will not only force a human to review it, but it also gives you the ability to spot BS. I tried this last year and the bill dropped by about 30% literally just because I asked, so don’t let them rip you off.

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mastertigurius@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
It still boggles my mind that Americans believe this is normal.

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- BassTurd@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Here it is normal. Most of us do recognize that it shouldn’t be though.
  
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- DarkFuture@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  We’re a heavily propagandized nation.
  
  A lot of people know our healthcare is fucked, but many have accepted it because they think the alternative is worse. Because they’ve been told so by healthcare lobbyists.
  
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- yyyesss@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  we don’t. we know it’s insanity.
  
  i personally have been trying to change it for 25 years. i’m tired.
  
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- Duamerthrax@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I don’t know if it’s changed, but hospitals use to hang up on you if you ask for a quote on an operation. They don’t want to shopping around.
  
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RandomLegend@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
YSK This is only relevant for the USA.

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- Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  No shit
  
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Griffus@lemmy.zip ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
YSK you don’t get a medical bill in a civilised country.

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- D_C@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Before I moved all I had to pay for was the parking if I parked at a hospital. Now I don’t even have to do that.
  
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phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
There are hundreds of movies about US soldiers being heroes by killing their enemies

How many movies are there about US citizens being fucked over by hospitals and insurance for more decades than I’ve been alive? I don’t know of any.

This really encapsulates the US in two paragraphs

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ManicMambo@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
We live in Denmark. My wife lost her job at a senior home due to stress. 3 years later, breast cancer diagnosis followed by a quick operation. Shes waiting for the radiation sessions now. In the US, we would probably have gone bankrupt. Sorry for you guys.

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ZoDoneRightNow@kbin.earth ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Amerikkka moment...

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MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Completely opposite to the finnish experience.

When I broke my ulna and dislocated my wrist, I took an ambulance ride to the hospital, got three xrays, a cast, and two doses of fentanyl.

Told to return the next morning for post-cast xrays of the damage, by the end of that I was scheduled for surgery 8 days later. Sent home with a prescription for some non-opioid painkillers. Picked those up for around 20 euros.

Received four hours of hand surgery. Over a dozen titanium screws and a titanium plate put in. Given three pills of an opioid based painkiller for sleeping through the worst of the post-surgery pain. And another prescription for more non-opioids.

Weeks later, removal of the surgery bandages, stiyches. Xrays of how the bone was healing, followed by a consultation with a hand surgeon, and then a physical therapist on recovering motion in the wrist and fingers.

Months later one more round of xrays, and two more consultations with the physical therapist, and some follow-up with a hand surgeon due to the therapist noticing a lack of motion in my thumb, resulting in the discovery of some nerve-damage from the surgery (which I thankfully ended up recovering from).

By the end, I was sure I would max out the healthcare billing limit. This was the most expensive recovery from an injury I’d ever suffered. Finnish public health care is only allowed to bill you up to a maximum yearly amount, so as to never overload any one individual with debt. But it would still be a lot for me.

When I finally got an un-itemized bill, I was sure it was only the first of many.

Nope. It was the total. 87 euros and 40 cents.

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- ebc@lemmy.ca ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Here in Canada, I recently took a big stumble while snowboarding, and my ankle hurt a lot. I went to the emergency room at the nearest hospital, got X-rays, and they confirmed I had broken my left inner malleolus. They referred me to the specialist clinic, and sent me home with a boot and crutches.
  
  Next Monday, the specialist clinic tell me to show up the next morning (so on Tuesday). I waited pretty much the whole morning for the specialist to see me, he confirmed he needed to operate and put 2 screws in my ankle. The surgery happened later that evening.
  
  Got a follow up 2 weeks later to remove the cast / surgery bandages, more X-rays and they put me back in the boot until the next follow-up a month later, after which I’ll probably start physiotherapy.
  
  All of this cost me about 4$ in EV charging while I was at the ER, and maybe 20$ in medication (painkillers and Tylenol)? And I don’t think it could’ve been any faster. People love to shit on our healthcare system here, but in my experience it’s been amazing.
  
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  - MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    People love to shit on our healthcare system here, but in my experience it’s been amazing.
    
    Same.
    
    But in terms of quality of care, I have no complaints. The opposite. The nurses and doctors I interacted with were wonderful, and I made a point of telling them that. My surgeon in particular fought like hell for a result that would fully restore function in my hand. I was conscious for the surgery, so I got to sit in on the whole process.
    
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- jballs@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  That shit would bankrupt you here in the US.
  
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- corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Ulnar plate - and a dozen screws - from a fight, so somewhat like yours without the wrist damage.
  
  X-rays and a cast, but since I brought no ID with me they needed me to call back with my health numbers for charting. Walked out without paying.
  
  Back after a few weeks, and it’s not healing well. And that’s when they booked the surgery. They’d removed the cast for the x-rays so they sent me home with a sampler of T3 or so to get me through Christmas. Plate implanted on 28dec but in the hospital for a while because of really bad rejection and infection (almost lost it). Finally until control, I was sent homenwith a prescription for painkillers.
  
  $0 aside from those meds (c$20). 🇨🇦
  
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- colourlessidea@sopuli.xyz ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  What’s the max yearly amount?
  
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  - tordenflesk@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Here in Norway it’s ~340$. I usually blow through that in 1.5 months, so most of the year it’s “free”.
    
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  - MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Just under 800 euro iirc.
    
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Cheems@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
My friend recently got their routine blood draw that they get yearly. This time it was over $2000. Usually less than $50. They’ve called the billing department several times and been hung up on each time when asking for an itemized bill. The system is working as intended and needs to be dismantled

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- Griffus@lemmy.zip ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  And here we complain that a GP appointment with full blood panel and whatever is needed is closing €30.
  
  You guys need to start voting towards civilisation instead of against it.
  
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  - Faildini@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Most of us do. Our electoral system is just as fucked as our health care.
    
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- EtherWhack@lemmy.world ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Was it testing for something specific or was it just the standard panel you get with a physical? I only ask as that would be absurd unless it was specialized (like screening for a specific type of cancer), even for the US.
  
  If it was just a regular blood panel, that is shady as hell and needs to be questioned.
  
  To give reference, I just had my yearly and the three that they did would’ve been ~$200 without insurance; in the SF bay area, at that.
  
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  - Cheems@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    It was a specific persistent medication level that has been tested every year. It’s usually less than ~$50
    
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  - Pika@sh.itjust.works ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I just had my standard blood draw and it was 550$ so yea 2k defo look into that.
    
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Technoworcester@feddit.uk ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Funny really. I’ve never recieved an itemised bill from a hospital visit.

#usacentricpost

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- essell@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Funny for me too. I’ve never received a bill from a hospital visit.
  
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- Flauschige_Lemmata@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I have, or well from other doctors at least. Our universal healthcare doesn’t pay things they don’t consider important. Paying everything would undermine their bargaining power.
  
  But those bills are always itemized.
  
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  - Technoworcester@feddit.uk ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Thanks for that, interesting to hear. It boggles my mind why anyone would pay ANY bill that isn’t itemised.
    
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Luci@lemmy.ca ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
So glad I got universal heath care

So what if my elective mri took 7 months? Atleast I don’t have medical debt!!!

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- DarkFuture@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  American here.
  
  I pay dearly for my health care and I still had to wait 6 months for an appointment with a specialist only to find out immediately after sitting down with him that I had been sent to the wrong place AND charged extra for it.
  
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  - Nebraska_Huskers@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Don’t forget forget 1 grand gets you about 10 minutes of rush time to speak
    
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4am@lemmy.zip ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Maybe this was true in 1967 when the typing pool and the accountants had to coordinate to whip up a bill by hand, but the number that the computer spits out is literally a spreadsheet sum of all the line items.

“Itemized bill with CPT” (if it’s a hospital bill they mostly use HCPCS with Rev codes anyway) is exactly what they send in on insurance claims, so they already have it. It’s not any extra work, no one reviews it and compares it to medical records; it’s literally generated and pulled directly from the medical records.

Unless you are at a small rural hospital that still uses dot matrix printers with the ribbon paper, it’s highly unlikely this will change anything for you. It costs them the extra paper.

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- BassTurd@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  It’s still true in that the bill can go back and forth between the hospital and insurance and change.
  
  I had a surgery about 5 years ago that started at about $45k, and every couple of days got the bill would change as things started getting picked up by insurance. Eventually it got down to just over $4k. I waited about a month and then still had to call insurance because my annual out of pocket was capped at $2k and they didn’t take that into account. Eventually it ended right around $1500.
  
  This was all through the MyChart app, so it more it less does live updating after the initial bill is sent, opposed to a paper bill. Now I always wait about a month to pay any medical bills just to be sure, because if you over pay, you have to fight to get it back from insurance.
  
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- EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  the number that the computer spits out is literally a spreadsheet sum of all the line items.
  
  Yes a spreadsheet sum of potentially incorrect items, which the only way you’d know about is if you see the items, not the summary. Hence OPs post.
  
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  - TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    Yes a spreadsheet sum of potentially incorrect items, which the only way you’d know about is if you see the items, not the summary. Hence OPs post.
    
    Not saying that it’s impossible… But, the way most of these codes are input is when a provider scans in a medication or procedure before they administer it.
    
    Electronic medical records systems like Epic basically streamline physician notes with medical billing. It’s actually a lot easier nowadays to accidentally forget to input a billing code than it is to add extra billing information.
    
    Tbh if you get a large and unexpected bill from the hospital, a more effective route is to ask if they have a hardship, charity care, or financial assistance program.
    
    Hospitals, especially state funded ones like the one I practice at are so used to people not being able to pay their bills that we regularly have to write off a ton of medical care. They are usually more than happy to drastically discount care for people who are willing to pay for even part of their bill.
    
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AlternatePersonMan@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
It’s funny how the errors never work in your favor.

Each error should be punishable by a 100x fine. I bet those pesky little extra charges would stop very quickly.

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DarkFuture@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
You guys pay your medical bills?

Last time, I was told to go to a specialist. Called, was told the soonest appointment was 6 MONTHS OUT. Waited 6 months in pain. Went. Was there for 5 minutes when the specialist looked at my record and said I wasn’t supposed to have been sent to him, and sent me packing. Charged me $420 for that “appointment”. Never paid it. Don’t know if they ever garnished my wages or not. Never heard about it.

I’m not going to help them fuck me.

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gigastasio@sh.itjust.works ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
You can also negotiate directly with your medical provider. Ask if they have Financial Assistance programs you can apply for. Nonprofit hospitals in the US are required by law to have these programs and provide you with information when requested, and it frequently results in having your medical debt reduced or forgiven.

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- MajorMajormajormajor@lemmy.ca ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  nonprofit hospitals
  
  Jesus Christ…
  
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  - MedicPigBabySaver@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Yet, Boston’s biggest hospital is currently building two new high rises for $2+ Billion…Billion!
    
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Berengaria_of_Navarre@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
If you receive a high medical bill, you should follow Luigi’s example.

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IWW4@lemmy.zip ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The games that hospitals and medical providers play with bills is unreal. My wife and I had to manage cancer treatment for one of our family members and the amount of incorrect bills, redundant bills and deluge of documents that were sent were from the hospital and various providers was fucking insane.

Little did they know that my wife is a machine when it comes to organizing and dissecting information. She would routinely crush those fuckers on the bills they were sending. They tried to bill for the same procedure FOUR times!

If the person getting the treatment had to handle all those bills while being incapacitated withe chemo and pain management they would have been screwed hard.

I do not have any hard evidence that all of the above was by design or by errors in the system but it sure seemed intentional.

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- TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  The games that hospitals and medical providers play with bills is unreal.
  
  As a medical provider at a hospital I can attest that we really have little to no control over any of your medical billing. Not saying that mistakes don’t happen, we are dealing with tens of thousands of people and billing departments usually have a lot of employee turnaround.
  
  That being said, the vast majority of things like duplicate bills, incorrect bills, and redundant documentation is a byproduct of dealing with private insurance companies.
  
  Even if we’ve already done a prior authorization the insurance company can suddenly decide that we didn’t provide the exact right information, or that we didn’t have the right type of referral, or even used the wrong color of ink pen… They can deny a claim, which usually will prompt the billing department to automatically send you guys a bill. At which point you guys call us understandably upset, which prompts us to start the whole authorization process over again.
  
  Dealing with Medicare and especially Medicaid is so easy compared to private insurance, as they have a very clear motive to erect as many reasons to deny or delay coverage as possible. The entire reason the American healthcare system is so archaic and management heavy is because we have to deal with private insurance.
  
  I can guarantee the medical providers hate the situation more than anyone. The day after the United ceo got assassinated was one of the more jolly days I’ve seen at the hospital for years. It was almost unreal to hear my older and very uptight professional colleagues crack jokes about a man being murdered in provider meetings.
  
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Whirlygirl9@kbin.melroy.org ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
this is a very timely post for me

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- Drusas@fedia.io ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Good luck.
  
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arrow74@lemmy.zip ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Yeah this doesn’t really work anymore. In the past 2 years I’ve seen the hospital bills from 2 different hospitals.

Both hospitals issued an itemized bill automatically. We didn’t have to ask for anything. My guess is hospitals know this “trick” now and just have better accounting. So they issue the itemized right away so.they don’t have to deal with anyone calling

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NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Tylenol, 2 pills: $250

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victorz@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Sounds absolutely illegal, or it should be, to overcharge you like you’re staying in some backwoods little hotel in Thailand or something.

America is so corrupt throughout its entire society. 🤦‍♂️

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Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
YSK posting something USA specific on lemmy brings all the euro tra$h to the yard.

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- lauha@lemmy.world ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I really helps to specify which country you are from in the international community. Although scammy medical bills are obvious US context.
  
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  - TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    For now… With the rise of right winged parties in Europe it would not surprise me if they start chipping away at universal care.
    
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- Macaroni_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  At least we dont need a mortgage to cover some basic medical treatment and shit lol xD
  
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- ManicMambo@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You prefer an “American problems, dont wanna know” meme? No, its so you understand how normal healthcare works in other countries and hopefully want to change something in your dysfunctional society.
  
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- Technoworcester@feddit.uk ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I know right! Also, get this… I don’t get SHOT AT in my trashy yard. Win win.
  
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chosensilence@pawb.social ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
just don’t pay it at all.

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- acchariya@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Just do like the insurance companies do. $750 for a follow up? I’ll give you tree fiddy
  
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Maeve@kbin.earth ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
This really can not be overemphasized. Do it for doctors visits that require a lot of labs too.

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