Oh noooo, that thing we warned people about when it came out is being misused in exactly the way we warned people it would be misused.
Oh nooooo.
I’m tired grandpa. Too damn many stupid people in this world.
Ring Cameras Join Flock and Amazon to Now Create Direct Data Access for ICE
Submitted 2 weeks ago by theHRguy@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/d13f3a91-4161-429a-8206-91b14d8d57de.png
Comments
GhostPain@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
bearboiblake@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
there is no satisfaction in being proven right for this shit, the vindication is absolutely hollow. It sucks for everyone.
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
While your at it, dont buy from amazon
Jhex@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There was a time when I thought that was impossible… now I don’t even have an account
I think my wife keeps one because according to her (and I believe this is true) there are things you just can’t buy elsewhere anymore. So far, I have been fine not buying something if it’s only on Amazon but I can see cases where that would be impossible.
Other than that, fuck Amazon right off
canofcam@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
thing you just can’t buy elsewhere anymore
Yes and no. For example I had to buy double-sided tape and went into four different stores in different areas of my city and only found it in the fourth store after researching.
I checked on Amazon after the fact, and could have had it delivered to my door same-day lol.
I don’t believe there’s anything you can only buy on Amazon… but it IS so bloody convenient.
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
there are things you just can’t buy elsewhere anymore.
What specifically is this true for?
Other than their Amazon basic branded trash.
PagPag@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
People send me links to Amazon products and seem bewildered when I just don’t open them and or respond to send me the actual link to the mfr website.
Fuck amazon
Branch_Ranch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
*you’re
HootinNHollerin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
You would think that text prediction would be good by now but no it’s horrible on iOS
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Have considered a plain old doorbel and a peep hole on the door?
Low tech, cheap, cheap to install, lasts a lifetime.
Heck, if safety is the concern, install a periscope. Yes, mirrora inside a tube, to get to see, from a distance, who is at the door.
You want footage? Photos?
Install a local camera. Like one of those that are setup by biologists to film animals in the wild. Triggered by motion sensing. Or talk with someone technically inclined and install a local system.
DrMartinu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
If it doesn’t use a BNC connector I don’t trust it
fonix232@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
Or just use one of the hundreds of other brands that provide smart doorbells.
qyron@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Honest question: what is the reason to have a doorbell of this kind?
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Make sure to put a cover on the peephole. There is some sort of lens or something that can allow someone outside to see through it.
rumba@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I like to know when a package arrives, and when someone has stolen it.
Doorbell cams are just too convenient. You already have power there. There’s footage and audio.
Of course, I’m technically inclined…
FenderStratocaster@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m more concerned about safety on my property than privacy. I use Wyze Cams. I’m fine with it.
NOT_RICK@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can have both. I have a 360 camera set up around my house that records to a local dvr. I can remote into it when I’m not home and I’m not supporting ghoulish companies like google or Amazon.
NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
You might want to consider a different brand:
“So violated”: Wyze cameras leak footage to strangers for 2nd time in 5 months
Etterra@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
Oh look another smart technology I didn’t adopt for the exact reason being talked about. You can’t trust big tech to not collaborate with whoever it’s the most profitable to collaborate with.
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s not really a trust thing. They are companies, not people. The top decision makers have a fubuciary responsibility to do whatever makes money. They can, and often do, get sued if they don’t. So you can expect them to sell you out. It’s literally thier purpose for existing.
stoly@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They are companies run by right wing shitbags. How many genocides were conducted on Facebook?
hector@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
You can’t trust big tech to not collaberate with, big tech either. You don’t want them with your information, even if it’s not readily apparent how it could hurt you. Before you know it you could be in a fascist dictatorship and wondering how you got there, this is part of the reason. Or would be in that completely hypothetical situation that in no way mirrors our own situation with our dear most intelligent and not al all dickish supreme leader.
epicthundercat@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Can we all agree to print out flyers of this to share around with neighbors and our communities? People ARE under educated. It starts with us educating because the oligarchs wont
FatVegan@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
I doubt that anyone who has a ring camera, alexa and anything like that will care. Maybe people who think about getting one will, but a random flyer?
BromSwolligans@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I care. I have Ring because it was the fastest way to get cameras on my property after trouble with neighbors. I found out how liberal they are with user data and handing it over to law enforcement but I couldn’t justify the expense in upgrading. For me this isn’t a bridge too far in a moral sense but more like a powerful reminder I’ve been lax in my responsibility. I’m pricing out some Reolink cameras I can host locally at home and put on a private subnet I can just VPN into. I’ll have to buy the kit piecemeal because I don’t have a lot of money to toss around but I am firmly committed to getting off Ring cameras in light of this news.
thenoirwolfess@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
Ring is owned by Amazon, so it makes sense. You can’t really trust any company fully, but Anker and Reolink are OK for now
dan@upvote.au 2 weeks ago
Reolink
Any cameras that can operate entirely offline are good. Dahua and Hikvision are good too. Just follow best practices - keep them isolated on a separate VLAN with no internet access. If you want remote access to your NVR, use a VPN like Tailscale.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Though, on the other hand, having the video saved offsite is useful because then anyone with physical access to your home can’t get rid of the video showing they’re there.
This is not an argument in favour of using cloud services, because that gives access to your video to anyone the company deems should have access (or sometimes individual workers who either have access as part of their job or gain access because businesses suck at security). It’s in response to you saying isolate the cameras from the internet entirely; there is a good reason to have them connected (though you could have a PC handle that with a connection to two networks and no physical or software bridge between the two, just take video from one, upload (encrypted) to server on other).
notthebees@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Hikvision is app only which is really annoying. I wouldn’t recommend it. (it also crashes my emulator for some reason)
4am@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Anker owns Eufy right? The company that had all their cameras recording to a publicly accessible cloud storage?
Yeah not trusting them either.
Mailloche@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
My eufys are supposed to be local only. Shit I hope so… That’s why I bought them in the first place
paraphrand@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
HKSV does not get sent to ICE.
Marinatorres@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This really highlights how important it is for people to understand what they’re opting into with smart devices. Transparency and informed choice matter more than ever.
Bluegrass_Addict@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
the contracts/terms/etc don’t even matter… they can change them at any time, without prior notice. stop buying stuff, plain and simple.
floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Don’t buy anything from Amazon.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
this is great news for my leftist in-laws who decided to get ring cameras out of the convenience they offered.
I did warn them that this would happen, but like most people, “that would never happen!”
redditmademedoit@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
Tl;dr surveillance equipment working perfectly, used for dystopian surveillance. Major shocker.
Prior_Industry@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Even better, getting the general public to pay to install and power them
ftbd@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Corporations and fascists: name a better duo
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Peanut butter and jelly.
betterMore evil
sturmblast@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Ditch your internet connected shit and boycott these companies
Zikeji@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Here’s an archive link in case anyone else refuses to give Substack views due to their affinity for Nazis: archive.is/ns4Yq
normalentrance@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I enjoy having cameras on my house to see what’s going on in the neighborhood. It has come in handy at least once when my neighbor’s truck was stolen in broad daylight.
They are ring cameras because two were installed already when I moved in. What should I switch to? I just really want motion alerts and proof when something bad happens.
Zetta@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Unifi Ubiquiti products are the best option for completely local data hosting and camera services with really good “ai” detections all run locally, but they aren’t that cheap and you’ll need to buy one of their Unifi protect capable routers which is gonna be like $300 by itself.
MagicDonkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Ethernet is the standard for security cameras anyway. It’s a higher quality feed which is important for indisputable evidence in a court of law. Just about every Wifi camera is either seriously lacking in resolution, frame rate, or both. Wifi cameras are also stupidly easy to jam with like $10 worth of equipment and minimal knowledge…
Nalincah@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
How is the legal situation in the US? Are you allowed to permanently film and record the public space?
In Germany, you have to limit the camera to your public ground, due to private reasons
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
In Estonia it’s legal to have it film the public ground if you have signs making it clear
On the one hand it’s useful to have cameras that show the street. On the other hand, when you post signage like that it kinda says “I have shit worth guarding”
normalentrance@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
We don’t have any expectation of privacy in the US. You can place cameras anywhere you like on your property and can film anything in public.
Unfortunately we have to make our own privacy here (by closing the shades, etc.)
MagicShel@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
As far as I can tell it’s still voluntary. This is their policy. It sounds like if you choose to share photos or video with public safety organizations, that now Flock and hence ICE can access it.
That all said, fuck Flock and I certainly don’t want anything I share (which I never have) to contribute to the profits of a private surveillance company. The solution here appears to be share nothing with public safety at all ever so that contract is worth nothing.
db2@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nice of them to completely undermine what “p public safety” means for the 326,774,980th time.
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
inaccessible image of text
Do commenters know they can copy text instead of break web accessibility?
MagicShel@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Do commenters know they can copy text instead of break web accessibility?
Broken as intended on the Ring website. Couldn’t copy/paste text. Would’ve forced the issue were I on desktop at the time.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The owner chooses what to share in response to a request. Just like IRL when the police knock on an owner’s door to request information.
Yes, through this program you are technically correct that the user has to press a button to send the video to law enforcement through this specific program.
This implies that the user has the ability to refuse to send the video to law enforcement, but that is not true.
The videos are stored on Flock/Amazon’s servers and that means that the police can, via a subpoena or court order, access the footage or real-time video from any device or storage that the business can access. You have zero say in this and cannot opt out, the case law on requesting ‘business records’ is long settled case law as is the idea that digital files are considered ‘business records’.
In addition, this program does not preclude Flock/Amazon from voluntarily providing access to anybody or any group that asks/pays. The data is theirs, not yours.
This program is whitewashing the creation of a nation-wide real-time video surveillance network, paid for by you or via your tax dollars.
ramenshaman@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Looks like you didn’t read the whole article.
TommySoda@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I remember last year when there was a trend of AI generated videos that depicted animals or people doing ridiculous and crazy things on doorbell cameras. Everyone was surprised at how realistic they looked but never questioned why there was enough training data of doorbell cameras to make them in the first place.
Not that relevant, but it makes it pretty clear how “private” this data was in the first place.
Gerudo@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
To be fair, a LOT of people voluntarily post doorbell videos on public sites like Facebook, X, Next Door etc. plenty for AI to scrape without even touching “private” brands.
FauxLiving@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Also, even this is vastly overstating how difficult that it would be.
You don’t need to train an entire network to make doorbell camera videos/pictures. There are techniques (like IP Adapters) that can take a single photo during inference and copy the style onto any other generated work. With applications like ComfyUI, this is a matter of dropping a node onto the generation graph and choosing a photo (or several photos), 3-4 clicks.
DarrinBrunner@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Home “security” cameras cause far, far more angst and grief than they do benefit.
“Hey, mister policeman, here’s a video of a guy stealing my truck.”
“Yep, that’s a guy stealing your truck, alright.”
“…”
“…”
One-third of Nextdoor is lost pets. One-third is people selling crap they bought at Goodwill. And, the last third is people asking about the “suspicious” (non-white) man who walked down the sidewalk past their house at 5AM.
tmyakal@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
The only reason to contact the police if something gets stolen is so that you can show the report to your insurance company.
Auli@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Eh my cameras sit local and only get looked at when I am either board and want to do some frigate plus uploads or if something happens. Besides looking where delivery drivers have left packages I have only had one incident.
Suavevillain@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Is there some really good open source and local cameras that people are using? Because many people default to ring.
canofcam@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I am looking at using Eufy, no subscription. Unsure of potential of it joining the darkside.
mp3@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Eufy is a sub-brand of Anker, for those unaware.
ijgwin@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
OR3X@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can just use analog security cameras and a DVR of your choosing. Don’t let the word analog fool you, the cameras are available in up to 4K resolution. Since the video is recorded to the DVR and not some random company’s server it is safe. It requires a little more setup and know-how but it is by no means difficult. Check the surveillance section on B&H’s website. There are tons of options.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
I will never have a goddamn camera in my home. If I did it will HAVE to be an old school disconnected one that records to a DVR or some SSD HD. I have zero interest in having any unauthorized or unknown access to the interior of my home. This is a goddamn outrage, how is everyone not throwing their ring cameras out already?
JBPinkle@bookwyr.me 2 weeks ago
stallmanwasright.jpg
Somehoe35@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
I bought a ring camera in 2018 and I haven’t replaced it. They disabled color view to try to get me to to buy a new one. Thankfully I haven’t connected it to Amazon or anything yet. I immediately disconnected it after reading this, fucking Amazon.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Of course that happened, that happens every time when you buy things but then don’t own them.
I’ll buy cams for my home, but they’ll be for ME alone because they’re MY cameras, MY video.
Obligatory fuck Amazon and fuck the USA
AA5B@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Dammit, I fell for rings assurances of “only in response to a warrant”. Mostly out of laziness, but still …… I really am going to have to figure out self hosting a video doorbell, aren’t i
mousefad@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It would not surprise me if this inspired systematic vandalism of these devices. Not that I would ever advocate for such a thing.
sexy_peach@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
It’s crazy how fast this is going.
itistime@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
Where are the hactivists?! Are they all too well employed?
RabbitBBQ@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You know they are in all of your cloud connected cameras, inside your home, inside your tesla, pretty much everywhere you have a camera… Definitely not just at your front door. The key thing to understand about the surveillance state is that they only acknowledge access of personal data if they intend to use it in a court room. Most of it is just used for spying, information gathering, and parallel construction if necessary.
Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Free law enforcement access to my private security system? Seems like a bad idea.
fort_burp@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Are people going to start listening to their “paranoid” nephews yet?
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
We can only hope these companies are treated as collaborators in the future.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
How were collaborators treated the last time around though?
eksb@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Volkswagen, Ford, UBS, and IBM are all doing pretty well.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
the nazi scientists got employed in the US, so theres that. and plus we had a nazi party in the usa that was never sanctioned.
genericuser2000@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
When do you people WAKE UP? What accountability? What responsibility? When in the last decade plus has any if that happened?
I’m sure it’s just around the corner…
Open your damn eyes. The entire planet can see it, why are Americans so blind?l is it intentional? You guys let J6 slide ffs, why would there be an ounce of accountability now or ever? UNREAL
deliriousdreams@fedia.io 2 weeks ago
it's very real. This is history repeating itself for the umpteenth time. You aren't the first, nor will you be the last one to scream into the void about people who have been deliberately disenfranchised by their government with the direct intent of making them toothless against what is essentially a fascist regime.
The problem is that you're screaming a lot but not offering actual solutions except a general idea of "Fight!". That's not helpful, and it sounds a lot like condescension.
I understand that you're expressing frustration and disbelief and anger. But people here are angry too and they are fighting where they can. But as this and other news is very demonstrative of, the system is rigged against them and things get worse in that regard every day.
App stores removing apps that track ICE. People who share their outrage but not solutions/who don't boost actual efforts to fight.
News article that focus solely on the bad part and offer no solutions. The fact that you don't come across many posts with actual solutions isn't a it's intentional. People ignore things that help so they can remain outraged, supercilious, and smug.