I look forward to the total and complete collapse of Microsoft in the computer marketplace.
Microsoft wants to replace its entire C and C++ codebase, perhaps by 2030
Submitted 2 weeks ago by hal_5700X@sh.itjust.works to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theregister.com/2025/12/24/microsoft_rust_codebase_migration
Comments
HazardousBanjo@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
tonytins@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
Plans move to Rust, with help from AI
As if AI could handle the mountains of checks Rust has you account for.
a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
AI: This is unsafe. This is also unsafe. This third one? Unsafe.
tal@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
While I agree that I don’t think that an LLM is going to do the heavy lifting there, I assume that Rust has some way of overriding type-induced checks. If your goal is just to get to a mechanically-equivalent-to-C++ Rust version, rather than making full use of its type system to try to make the code as correct as possible, you could maybe do that. It could provide the benefit of a starting place to start using the type system to do additional checks.
MartianSands@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
The safety designed into Rust is suddenly foreign to the C family that I’m honestly not sure you can do that. Even “unsafe” Rust doesn’t completely switch off the enforced safety
Miaou@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
If they rely on UB at all, then this won’t work. At they you get a compile time error, but more likely your rust program will do weird stuff with memory. And given how much people rely on compilers “acting nice” when it comes to aliasing (something rust does not fuck around with), I wouldn’t hold my breathe
vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I’m my experience, LLMs are especially bad at Rust. They really don’t seem to grasp the borrow checker.
sudoer777@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I used Rust with Deepseek for a small project for copying and pasting snippets and it went well, but I wouldn’t trust it to work with a codebase on its own
mech@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Honestly, Microsoft should just take the L, develop Windows 12 based on a Linux kernel, and re-write most of their stuff from scratch.
After focussing on backwards-compatibility for 40 years, they’re allowed a new start, to fix all the rotten code they inherited from the 1980’s.a_non_monotonic_function@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That would make a lot of sense, which is why they are going to do something else.
darkevilmac@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It seems like the actual windows kernel isn’t that bad, it’s mainly all the stuff on top of it at this point that is killing the OS
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Which they could clean up, but it would mean killing backwards compatibility, which is arguably the only selling point of Windows.
underscores@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Oh, God I would hate that.
I don’t want microshit software to become a standard in Linux.
What Microsoft needs to do is keep pushing AI as much as possible until it burns itself to the ground.
spongebue@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Shit, with the way computer horsepower has improved over the years, how hard can it be to add a legacy Windows emulator or whatever WINE is, especially when you have the original source code available?
orclev@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
WINE is basically an adapter. It exposes a Windows API and calls the equivalent Linux APIs when invoked. That’s less overhead than an emulator which models an entire virtual piece of hardware. When you run a Windows program through WINE your computer is actually executing the code of the program just like any Linux one it’s just calling WINE libraries instead of the Windows ones it normally would.
ark3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
A man can wish but they would never do that because of GPL and thus having to also open source anything built-in/in-top by them (afaik?)
markz@suppo.fi 2 weeks ago
Not really. Android and the google layer on top is a pretty good example of what you can do.
orclev@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They would only be obliged to open source any extra code they added to the kernel. If whatever they add lives in user space then it can be closed source (that’s one of the key differences between GPL 2 and 3 and why Linus refuses to use GPL 3). That said the problem with Windows at this point isn’t really the kernel, it’s all the user space crap they built on top of it.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Compatability is the only reason to use Windows anymore. If they had to compete for best distribution, then they’d rapidly lose customers.
neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I remember that rumor for windows 11, I was really hopeful.
I don’t think they really make money in windows itself.
Why don’t they just come to linux and sell their server stuff there to keep people in that ecosystem?
zbyte64@awful.systems 2 weeks ago
I’m skeptical they could do it in a way that inherits stability from Linux. Imagine bolting on their service control on top of systemd or map their registry system to /etc. They either bring all the bad over to Linux or write something that doesn’t support the windows ecosystem.
pyrinix@kbin.melroy.org 2 weeks ago
After focusing on backwards-compatibility for 40 years
Lack of, you mean.
VindictiveJudge@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Er, no. A Linux program from five years ago probably won’t run on a current distro if it hasn’t been maintained in four years. A Windows program released twenty years ago and never patched has pretty good odds of running on Win10 without even needing to touch the compatibility tab.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Tattorack@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s OK. I’m using Linux. Perhaps this will drive more people to Linux. The less people using corporate owned tools the better.
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
“Our strategy is to combine AI and Algorithms to rewrite Microsoft’s largest codebases,” he added. “Our North Star is ‘1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code.’”
termaxima@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
This could have been good news, however, Microsoft’s insistance on using AI, and general incompetence even without it, makes me very doubtful this will be successful.
They are going to try and replace C and C++ written by actual experts a few decades ago, with Rust written by idiots. Expect tons of logic bugs, and very little measurable difference in memory corruption.
IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
All the black hats are going to have a field day uncovering all manner of zero-day exploits…
phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
No no no you see, they’re using rust, which is a ‘safe’ language. That means it’s not possible to have security issues…
Malcolm@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Get out your popcorn because this should be fun to watch. They’re already vibe coding all of the value and stability out of their OS.
As someone who only still has a Window install because Wine can’t handle the CAD tools I rely on, I look forward to the day when Linux becomes a more attractive platform to release professional software for. I’m not holding my breath for the Year of the Linux Desktop but I can certainly enjoy the ride of MS’s self sabotage to get there.
muhyb@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Have you tried Winboat? Don’t know about CAD but it can handle Photoshop well.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
WinBoat is amazing, but it doesn’t have GPU passthrough yet. That one feature is the holy grail for Windows virtualization on Linux. I hope the WinBoat team can solve it.
wewbull@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
This is what you get when AI fanaticism combines with Rust fanaticism.
1 million lines a month is 2-ish line per second. That “engineer” is just someone to blame when things don’t work. They aren’t going to be contributing anything.
tyrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I was about to say that surely it’s not just 1 person they are talking about. I read, "Our North Star is ‘1 engineer, 1 month, 1 million lines of code.’”
ranzispa@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
I mean, if this is true and it works it is not too far fetched. You’d mostly be checking that tests still make sense and that they pass.
Microsoft scientists have worked on a tool that automatically converts some C code to Rust.
Deestan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The expensive autocomplete can’t do this.
AI markering all wants us to believe that spoon technology is this close to space flight. We just need to engrave the spoons better. And gold plate them thicker.
Dude who wrote that doesn’t understand how LLMs work, how Rust works, how C works, and clearly jack shit about programming in general.
Rewriting from one paradigm to another isn’t something you can delegate to a million monkeys shitting into typewriters. The core and time-consuming part of the work itself requires skilled architectural coding.
cheesybuddha@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But when they don’t pass, then you have to dissect a bunch of AI pasta, right?
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You’d mostly be checking that tests still make sense and that they pass.
Nah, my experience is most of your time is finding out what parameter or function call they made up because its mathematically a good answer.
franzbroetchen@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Easy to achieve if the ai just wraps all code in an
unsafeblock ^^m33@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
That’s funny because using unsafe might be an hint that Rust is not the right tool for the job. Yet we have rust in the kernel, rust coreutils… I just can’t wrap my head arout it, yet.
boaratio@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You shouldn’t have said that. Now the rust zealots are going to come for you.
filcuk@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
lemmeLurk@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Honestly migrating from one language to another night actually be one of the best use cases for AI, if you don’t change the architecture much it should be doable especially if it’s a well tested codebase.
franzbroetchen@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Maybe if the languages are very similar. If you convert C to Rust using AI it might work well but will most definitely not leverage the unique features of Rust. Might as well stay with C in that case. Migrating from an object oriented language like C++ to a procedural language such as Rust will most likely produce a burning pile of shit
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
especially if it’s a well tested codebase.
So not for microsoft products then.
phlegmy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
In theory.
But there’s no doubt all their tests will also be shat out from an LLM.
DeuxChevaux@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A vibe coded Windows 12. Sounds… interesting, mildly…
whitecollarcry@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“a stupid fucking OS for stupid fucking people”
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
reimplement … with help from AI
Meaning, it will have more bugs and less features after.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I tried vibe coding a rust project and it was total ass.
db2@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Probably with AI slop because they got really stupid really fast in Redmond.
Tollana1234567@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
will MS even last that long towing AI behind them.
db2@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’re not even towing it, they’re putting it in the lead fully and just dumbly trusting whatever direction it’s going.
architect@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
Be off fucking windows by 2030, got it.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can be happily off Windows in less than an hour.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
I truly believe immutable Fedora distros are the answer to windows. I spent years and years on Debian based distros. At the beginning of 2025 I finally switched my daily driver from Windows to an arch based distro.
Fast forward to October where I finally put Bazzite on my S/O’s gaming laptop, and shit just works. But the real kicker is that I don’t have to worry if upgrading her system will leave it unbootable.
Look, I love tinkering, compiling from source, and keeping a spare Linux kernel, but windows users don’t want that shit. They yern for flat packs and systems that you can’t fuck up.
Anyways, fedora atomic, 100% the new meta.
VeloRama@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
so glad i switched to linux in time to avoid this clusterfuck. at least on my private machines.
goatinspace@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
mEEGal@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What’s this show ?
milk@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Parks and Recreation
Klnsfw@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
Parks & Recreation
slaacaa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
ripcord@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yet another good time to get off of Windows
oftenawake@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
It’s always a good time to get off of Windows!
ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Will this finally be the end of Windows?
Also fun fact: Windows uses a lot of COM Interfaces for API, which in my opinion often makes developing for Windows a better experience, than developing for Linux. Rust does not have anything OOP related by default, and are often emulated with macros instead, like in C.
hendrik@palaver.p3x.de 2 weeks ago
Well known in the industry how you don’t assess programmers by lines of code. You kind of want them to be efficient and clean. Spend their day thinking and design clever solutions… Not pump out lots of unmaintainable low quality stuff. But yeah, guess every aspect of this aligns well. You should be using Linux by now. Or at least do the swich in the near future.
frostysauce@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Replace the spaghetti with slop. Sounds like a great idea.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 2 weeks ago
The linkedin post this is based on sounds like a troll/joke/fake/mental episode.
aesthelete@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Perfect plan, I’m sure there will be no problems
outbloodyrageous@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
I can’t wait for online trolls to blame the language after the AI slop code gets flagged with a billion CVEs
MITM0@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Incoming brainrot-video from Bryan Lunduke in 3…2…1
qaz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This sounds like a great idea, I might finally be able to use Linux at work in the future.
FarceOfWill@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
Somebody got yelled at
Jankatarch@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
(With react native)
excral@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Windows 11 was released 4 years ago and you still can’t move the task bar to a different edge of the screen. If Microsoft can’t implement simple feature of a core part of Windows in 4 years they most certainly can’t replace their entire C/C++ codebase in 5 years
pyrinix@kbin.melroy.org 2 weeks ago
And by which point, by 2032 when my Windows 10 stops updating completely (finally). May just be the time I finally go to Linux.
whotookkarl@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
This is coming from someone who is pretending to think Microsoft is currently doing well and could lose some quality at the expense to introduce new features users want faster to sell an image of technology innovators or at a baseline a user friendly experience
What is actually happening is they are trying really hard to sell Microsoft after windows 11 launch pushed a lot of users away or at least have them an accurate impression of how MS caters to corporations and advertisers and they don’t give a shit about users as long as they keep buying computers with windows monopoly pre installed.
Also the interview only covers corpo interests and doesn’t include any labor or software union leaders.
tal@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Well, I expect it’ll be exciting, one way or another.
edgemaster72@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This gives the curse “may you live in interesting times” vibes
plz1@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You know it’s going to be successful when they go back to using antiquated productivity measurements like measuring based on lines of code in a time frame. We all know AI is fucking spectacular at generating overly verbose code.
vin@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
I think the number of lines to be deleted is the target 1M…
HaraldvonBlauzahn@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
That’s insane. Even a good engineer will frequently need years to fully understand one million lines of code - even if the code is organized very, very well.
To compare, one million lines of program code might have around 200000 important symbols whose meaning and complex connections one has to learn and memorize. That’s far more than the average vocabulary one will learn in five years when learning a foreign language to a high skill level. Doing it in a month would be like learning to read and write fine Japanese or Arab literature in a month when you have never spoken a word in that language before.
msage@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Kinda still your point, but if you have one engineer producing 1M SLOC, how many do you have for code review?
I hate how everyone nowadays is acting like reviews are not important. Actual oversight over codebase is way less important than shipping random code. Which is insane.
umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Iunnrais@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Enshittification does not mean making things suck in general. It specifically means the business model of making a good product for users, then making the product bad for users and good for advertisers or data purchasers or retailers or whatever, and then when you have a captured market, making it worse for everyone to squeeze more money faster.
Microsoft is not doing this. They might be sucking, and making a worse product, but it’s not following the enshittification playbook.
Valmond@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
So to be paid I have to delete 1M lines of code every month. Gotcha.
bravesirrbn@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I always love how business bros use the term “Algorithm(s)” (and now also “AI”) as if that was just a magic incantation or something that you just switch on and it immediately solves whatever problem you might have.
All that’s needed is that the wizard comes up with the right spell and then everything just works and the business is generating infinite money!